Paying for "Time"

Can you say R.O.B. - Rip Off Bitch?

And that's why I don't recommend getting "drunk" at these places.

This type of situation happened to me once before. I was good friends with a stripper for several months. Many times we would sit and talk together, and when I pulled out money, she insisted that I put it away.

However, one time, she asked for money for her time, and we had been together for 5 minutes after doing a few couch dances with her.
I thought she was kidding, and I refused to give her any more. She walked away angry. The next day, she calls and texts me to apologize, and told me that her rent was due.

Speaking of that, the 1st is right around the corner. The strippers always get hard up for cash right about now...

This type of situation happened to me once before. I was good friends with a stripper for several months. Many times we would sit and talk together, and when I pulled out money, she insisted that I put it away.

However, one time, she asked for money for her time, and we had been together for 5 minutes after doing a few couch dances with her.
I thought she was kidding, and I refused to give her any more. She walked away angry. The next day, she calls and texts me to apologize, and told me that her rent was due.

Speaking of that, the 1st is right around the corner. The strippers always get hard up for cash right about now...

This type of situation happened to me once before. I was good friends with a stripper for several months. Many times we would sit and talk together, and when I pulled out money, she insisted that I put it away.

However, one time, she asked for money for her time, and we had been together for 5 minutes after doing a few couch dances with her.
I thought she was kidding, and I refused to give her any more. She walked away angry. The next day, she calls and texts me to apologize, and told me that her rent was due.

Speaking of that, the 1st is right around the corner. The strippers always get hard up for cash right about now...

This type of situation happened to me once before. I was good friends with a stripper for several months. Many times we would sit and talk together, and when I pulled out money, she insisted that I put it away.

However, one time, she asked for money for her time, and we had been together for 5 minutes after doing a few couch dances with her.
I thought she was kidding, and I refused to give her any more. She walked away angry. The next day, she calls and texts me to apologize, and told me that her rent was due.

Speaking of that, the 1st is right around the corner. The strippers always get hard up for cash right about now...

stenton1,

You should follow HB13's advice,

And that's why I don't recommend getting "drunk" at these places.

but apply it to posting here! :)

You're right, it's almost the 1st. That must be a huge factor here.

Oh well, she may have gained a bit more $ this time, but she'll be losing out on future business. Too bad so many strippers don't have good business sense.

I usually just drink a decent amount but don't get too drunk. Problem is I went to a happy hour before hand and downed about 7 shots of Jack over a 90 minute span. Sapphire NYC - all drinks only $5 and free cover before 8pm (I think weekdays only). I stupidly hopped to another strip club (my usual place), and that's where this all went down.

I'm ashamed of myself for even doing this, but it's just a reminder to not get too close to a stripper. Sometimes it can be legit, but you're rarely ever dealing with a real "friend." And when you get the wake up call that it's all just a business transaction, it really makes the whole idea of strip clubs less fun. That's why I'm taking a break for a little while.

I dont know. It depends on the girl. If shes a busy girl and you have a hard time getting time from her, it sounds as if she generates alot of business. You pay for 5 dances at $20 each. Each song is approx 4 min. Thats roughly 15-30 min total for $100 factoring in talk time. So an extra $100 for her to spend an extra hour with you is cheap. Time is money. She could be making $400 in that hour if she's as busy as you claim. Plus the end of the night is usually a busy time. Guys who have been sitting around wasting time finally realize they are running out of time so its prime lap dancing time. In my not so humble opinion, you got out cheap.

It does suck many strippers dont have good business sense as you say, but from what youve written, it looks like this one does. You were annoyed you couldnt get to her earlier because she has alot of business. Sounds like people like her. She doesnt want to sell her time short. When is that bad business sense?

Dancers are a dime a dozen. So are customers. If you pay me fair, you stay. I dont sell my body or my brain for cheap. You can find another dancer, I can find someone who sees my point of view. I dont have a problem generating business though. Sounds like this chick doesnt either

Sorry Clubber...I'm not drunk, at least not yet! :-) I was putting up a new picture, and I hit the enter button 4 times. I see my comments now show up 4 times.
As for the other comments, yes, too much alcohol leads to problems at the club. Monitor your intake gents. Fot the most part, it is strictly business, unless you get lucky.

The difference is that I've ALSO seen this girl on nights she isn't very busy at all (i.e. slower nights for every girl in the club) and taken care of her pretty nicely then too. I've consistently done this several times prior over the course of the year. We know each other decently considering she's a stripper, and I guess I was under the guise that I'm not just some other random dude. Obviously I was wrong.

But lets see, I ended up giving her exactly $390 (just checked based on my wallet/ATM statement).

Say every song is 3 minutes, and that may even be closer to 4. She'd have to give 20 dances to make $400, if we don't factor in tips. I don't know how she feasibly had the time to do that within one hour. $200-300 as a max for an hour makes the most sense to me, given the length of a song and the fact that even if you dance the whole time, chances are you might have to search for a new customer or two somewhere in between.

And finally, it's absolutely poor business sense. This was really awkward and now I honestly don't even want to get a dance from her in the future at all. She took an extra $200 now but is missing out on $xxxx in the future on combined nights that I also visit when it's not busy.

What makes it weird is you've known this stripper for a year. Usually that happens with a stripper you just met for the first time.

Hopefully you don't take too long of a break from strip clubbing. I'm heading to New York in a couple of months, and I enjoy reading your detailed reviews of New York clubs.

“It was really awkward, but there was nothing I could think to do at the time other than fork over some more cash”

Sometimes you just have to go Zimmerman on the situation and stand your ground.

“shouldn't have told her that I would "take care of her”

As many others have commented on other threads – both of you have to be clear and on the same page as to what is being paid and what is being expected and be willing to pass if it does not work (for either party) – as you stated – it’s business

“What pains me most is this girl is someone who I've known for about a year and she has always been nothing but kind in every other dealings.”

You came to the conclusion that it is business – money talks, bullshit (and your feelings) walks in the SC.

“This type of situation happened to me once before”

I am sure it happens all the time.

All in all – the dancer is there to work and make $$$ - not make friends and have idle chat – we (customers) just need to ALWAYS be aware of this.

Ive never paid a dancer to sit and keep me company and I ain't gonna start now. If she wants to sit with me and chat that is fine and I understand when she leaves to go work the floor.

I agree with Stiletto's comments.

Alot of customers hang around the club for hours and then decide they want dances right before closing. All things being equal, how do you decide who to dance for when demand is high? I know of dancers who double their prices during that time and I don't blame them.

This dancer was aware of her value and wasn't shy about asking.

IMO, the main reason I think a lot of strippers have poor business sense is they do not think long-term.

But what really bothers me is this whole idea of just paying for a girl to sit there. I remember when I first started going to strip clubs some girls would actually sit down on their own, take time to meet you and talk to you and then ask if you wanted a dance. Did I have to pay them for the time they sat with me? Hell no. I realize this time I asked her to sit with me, but I guarantee she'd have to do with some other guys too in order to generate business. I won't believe for a second that this is girl is just grinding dick for 8 hours every night.

ranukam,

I've told myself so many times that I'll quit going to strip clubs or go less often, but it never happens permanently. heh. I'll post a review up for Sapphire soon, never got a chance to try a lap dance there so I'd like to see how it is.

PM me if you need any advice on the NYC scene. There's a lot of tourist traps here but a few gems too for sure.

Papi_Chulo,

Yeah, you're right. I made some mistakes here. But I also think she went a bit overboard with trying to get more $ out of me (asking for $400 for an hour claiming this some sort of standard rate when I never heard of this). And that's what pisses me off, nothing else.

I know many girls who a) give me songs for free; b) never ask for additional tip and greatly appreciate even an extra $20 after a string of dances. Some of them are not as beautiful as this girl is, but their service is simply better and now they will get my business instead.

This girl will need to apologize at the very least to have a chance at more business from me, and I honestly think she'll be wanting to do that soon given a slow night will inevitably come.

If you have spent money on her in the past that is rude on her part. Good business sense is not to be rude or bite the hand that feeds you. You could have taken the money back and say something like oh yea i did miscount that and give her back the exact amount for just the dances. I am always nice until it is time not to be. I have put rude dancers in their place and later found out that the rude dancer is telling the other dancers not to be rude to me or i will never spend any more money on them. I have also heard from other dancers that they heard the story from them and thought the rude dancer was lying because Joe wouldnt do anything like that. Lol. It also helps me knowing the managers and floor guys. I always talk to them every time and they have defended me to rude dancers also.

Joe,

I like your attitude because ultimately that is how you have to deal with it not to get ripped off in a strip club. My problem is I am often way too generous after drinking.

I do wish I took back the amount I gave her, left her with exactly $80 and left. It would have been easy as it was so late that the bouncers were leaving for the night too.

I agree with everything you’ve said GSV.

I guess the point to take away from this is that it is business and we need to treat it and accept it as such.

Like it has been said in many other threads – one can’t take it personally – it’s just business and we need to negotiate accordingly – IMO.

For all you/I know, she already probably has a guy/BF and that is who she cares about – what she cares about w.r.t. guys at the club is how much $$$ she can make from them.

Not sure about prices there but in most clubs a half hour VIP is about $150 so even including a fairly generous tip she needs to be darn lucky to be consistently clearing $400 an hour.

Still you do need to realize that when you are asking here to spend time with you you are asking her to give up something that has value. There really is something called opportunity cost, which is the value of doing something else (hustling other customers for dances). So she is exaggerating the value of her time, but it is not worthless.

I agree inno that she gave up something of value a nd she is exaggerating the value. She could have spent that time trying to hussle some other guys that ended up being dead ends and not made anything

She pushed you to give as much as she could get, you caved. Is it right? Eh, maybe not. Is it a normal part of the hobby? Yes, it is.

At the end of the day cash is king and they push it for every buck they can. Kind of sleazy? Sure. So are used car salesman.

I thought you were plenty generous with $200 spent on an hours time, especially given you were a repeater. And $400/hour is very high doing $20 dances.

As far as paying for time goes I only tip if I ask them to sit down OR they ask if they can sit down and I say yes. Otherwise they can sit there all night and not get a dime.

If you paid her $400 for an hour, she should have spent that hour sucking and fucking.

Let it go, dude, and quit beating yourself up about it. As Stiletto points out, you didn't *exactly* get cheated, even if you wouldn't have done it normally. Blame it on the alcohol and move on.

"I'm already quite drunk by this point"

Nothing good ever comes from being intoxicated.

"Nothing good ever comes from being intoxicated."

False. Some of the best head I've ever gotten happened when the fellatrix was intoxicated.

"IMO, the main reason I think a lot of strippers have poor business sense is they do not think long-term."

Yeah, it's not often you see a stripper who can see the earning potential beyond the immediate future. The "paying for time" thing doesn't happen often, but when it does, it seems to be with the young ones who've become semi-favorites. They seem to develop set expectations and get flustered when things deviate a bit. They do apologize afterwards -- they ain't dumb -- but the damage has been done. Try to remind myself: my semi-favorites must be dealing with a fair number of cheapskates day in and day out, and their behavior is the conditioned result. Can't really fault them for that.

ay a dancer to sit with me. a lot of times they just come by and ask if they can sit down if I want company. After a few minutes if I'm not planning on getting a dance from them i'll cut the time short by either going to another girls stage or the reastroom. It's better not to waste either of our time if there is no interest.

Of course most dancers dont think long term. Look at the turn over rate of dancers. Shit, look at the turnover rate of customers. One walks out and another walks in. Some customers just come in once or twice. Thinking short term for ALL customers isnt good. Youve got to be reasonable though. If a dancer believes shes worth a certain amount, thats it. If a customer doesnt want to pay me what I think I'm worth and I'm the one selling my body, you better bet the price is high. There will ALWAYS be someone who will pay it. Ive learned that much.

Im usually pretty nice on this site so excuse me if I seem " bitchy" but $400 an hour ISNT SHIT for one girl in a strip club on a prime night, especially at closing time and especially if shes in high demand. Of course if you ask her to sit with you for an hour and shes about her business as she should be at work, shes going to charge you.

If you guys could only see and experience what I have, it would blow your fucking mind. The money that travels through these clubs and that you can make off half the guys that walk in is insane. The things that I've had offered to me on a nightly basis, Omg, I value myself, I really do, but some of this stuff is nuts and I dont understand how people afford it.

GSV, I feel your pain. Last year in Vegas, I spent time with a dancer (she was in from NYC - hmm, similar?). Anyway, I spent my evenings the whole time in Vegas at this club with her. I did plenty of multiple VIPs dances with her over the course of my stay, she'd come back to the bar with me and drink on my tab. I figure she easily cleared what you gave your girl from me each night and sometimes more. On the last night she really pushed for me to extend our last stay in the VIP another half hour. But at this point I was aware of how much I had spent on her and stood my ground. We argued, she told me about how much time she had spent with me and I told her I never asked her to stay with me and if she felt she needed to work the floor, I wasn't stopping her (and if I had the wherewithall of quick comebacks, reminded her how much I had already given her the previous days). It was a very sour ending to an otherwise fun trip. In the end, I learned a great deal from the experience: First off, beware of having favorites. They'll be a higher expectation to cover their night. Secondly, let the girl approach you and sit down. To me, if they stay, it's on them. My give back, I offer to buy them drinks - if I'm interested in them. Chat insues, the inevitable request for a dance and we're off. Third, once we're done, they are welcome to come back to the bar with me or to go seek their fortune in the club. If they come back, I'm clear that if they need to make the rounds I don't mind and they are always welcome to come back if there's nothing going on and they want drinks (and perhaps more dances from me). Slow nights, they come back, busy nights, they usually don't but then I get to play the field those nights too.
I understand this is their job and would never intentionally monopolize a girl without some renumeration (beyond all the drinks). At the same time, if on a slow night a bachelor party comes in while a girl is sitting with me, I'll ask if she needs to go make hay while the sun shines. Just always be clear about expectations and you're right, never again utter the phrase, "I'll take care of you."

"She kept giving dances to other guys, and expressed to me that she'd be free later. "

Brother, I would have been pissed and insulted that someone that knows you're there to spend money on her is telling you, "You're last." You might expect that from someone that doesn't know you. Maybe she didn't remember you that well. Either way, the money situation stinks. I'd still tell her she's a ROB and make sure she sees you spend money on everyone BUT HER. It's all about the money, so that will get under her skin, but she has to know why everyone's getting money from you but her.

One time a dancer I knew kept putting me off and finally when she came over I told her not to bother. I waited too long and was no longer interested. I was pissed because she knew I came for her, she was guaranteed a few dances from me AND I wasn't going to monopolize her time, because I know she's there to make money, not shoot the shit with me (unless it's not busy). Anyway, after that anytime I came in she shot her little ass over to me and everyone else had to wait.

Regulars/guaranteed money gets serviced first.

@georgemicrodong: "Some of the best head I've ever gotten happened when the fellatrix was intoxicated.
LOL -Cool

Addendum to my previous comment, how it worked in practice. Two weeks ago I was at the Hustler in New Orleans. On Wednesday night, I meet this really cute blond. She becomes my favorite and is content to stay with me, even asks a few times if I want her to leave so I can get dances from other girls. She does a stage dance and I see she's a favorite, just rakes in those $s but still comes back to me. I get a few of the multiple dance deals from her and feel I've treated her fine by the end of the night. She's drank for free all night too. I'm back on Friday, allot busier. She's there and comes on up to me. First multiple insues and then she's on the stage, rakes in even more $s this night. Disappears after her stage show and goes missing for awhile. I literally run into her in the Unisex Bathroom on the second floor, I'm going out, she's coming in. We only manage a quick Hi. Back at the bar I see her leave the restroom and go down the VIP hall to the $6000 an hour Larry Suite. She does come out again later just to use the restroom. I know she and the house split the fee, and imagine she must have gone home with 10 large that night (yes, the thought blew my f-in mind S-25). No way I can compete with that and I was happy for her and glad she didn't "waste" her time with me. BTW, what this reminded me, and it was mentioned in these pages before, if a girl doesn't come back to you in like 15m, move on.

Stilleto25, I assume you work in a very nice place and $400/hr is probable. I've been in many places like that, so I don't doubt your word. Possibly your assessment is skewed by all the high-class places you've worked rather than the "normal" titty bar, because I've been in far more where the strippers are complaining that they only made $80 all last night. Yes, I believe them, because I was there and saw they didn't make shit.

BTW, I rent several houses and some of the tenants are strippers. I bought into the assumption that strippers make good money. Big mistake. Those girls are always late with the rent and drive tin cans, not Mercedes. I'll never rent to a stripper again.

$400/hr - possible, but not likely.

@randy- I see your point. Ive worked at normal places but I worked a hell of alot harder, thats for sure.

@randy77, @Stilleto25 despite my tale about the girl with the 5 figure night, it's a definite exception in anyone's book, I have also met dancers who $400 for the NIGHT could mean a good night while also meeting some girls who lost money because they didn't make enough to cover the house fees. Um, yeah, I sometimes do not hang out at the most classy clubs but I also do not want to go to such a mill where the girls are either churning out 20 dances an hour or hard pushing for VIP.

I could say something about the dancer, but I wasn't raised that way. :)

"but $400 an hour ISNT SHIT for one girl in a strip club on a prime night, especially at closing time and especially if shes in high demand."

This comment surprised me. I KNOW the girls aren't making close to this much at the clubs I go to, because I'm sitting there watching most of them getting constantly turned down for lap dances. With that said, I live in Virginia, not exactly the greatest place for strip clubs. I've never been to any clubs in NYC, Las Vegas, or Los Angeles- which I'd assume are all places where the money being spend by customers is a lot greater.

Stiletto25,

I know the club well enough to be fully aware that it's close to impossible for a girl to clear $400 in an hour. Could it happen? Of course it can, in fact it just did with me. I respect that you work hard to make your money and everything, but that in my opinion is what fucks it up for everybody else, no offense. I have the money to spend, that's really not the problem here. But when strippers are asking me $400 an hour for their time and this starts becoming a consistent thing, then I am going to vote with my wallet and go through an escort agency and get laid for the same price. Or for fuck's sake if you think it's bad to fuck an escort I'd even rather pay an escort to give me lap dances in a private room that would be cheaper than going to the club anyway.

I like going to strip clubs because of the atmosphere and the drinking. But when it costs this much the value is gone and there becomes a fine line between taking advantage of a guy and just offering a service. Obviously if I was on your side I'd understand this better, but the opposite is also true. I'm not a cheapskate. I tip the bartenders better than 90% of the people, at least on a consistent basis, and the same thing goes with dancers. This is the first time I've ever been told by a dancer that I didn't tip enough, and it came at an extreme. That's why I'm shocked. Had I actually purchased 10-15 dances from her, then the $400 figure wouldn't have been a problem, but I am not paying $20 per 3 minutes for her to just sit there. I know other girls in the same exact club who charge $0 for just sitting down with me and would be shocked if I explicitly gave them more just for that. They don't work that way, and in my opinion should not unless it's a special case where a guy does NOT want to get a dance and *just* wants them to give the "company" which is fine. I bet you get tons of money from drunk fools (or even just really lonely guys with lots of $) who don't you even render much service to. I don't doubt it at all, but I personally do not want to see this become a regular practice at strip clubs. It fucks it up for everybody else who just wants to actually get dances and have a good time. It sets the standard way too high for giving $ for zero service rendered.

Real-Life 'Weekend at Bernie's' Duo Let Dead Pal Pay for Strippers
http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/1…

According to Denver police, the "Weekend at Bernie's Duo" committed a "bizarre and unfortunate crime."

That's why Young and Rubinson used Jarrett's credit card to buy drinks at a strip club. As for the $400 they withdrew from an ATM, I'm guessing most of those bills got rolled up and tucked into thongs. Such thoughtful guys.

Okay, seriously? This is what I don't get. Clearly Young and Rubinson needed their pal's card to pay for a night of booze and naked dancers. But why didn't they just take the card ... and leave the body at home?! It's not like Jarrett could've signed the tab or anything. At what point did the idea of taking their friend's corpse out for a joyride present itself as a sensible option?! Young claimed he didn't know Jarrett was dead (from a lethal mix of drugs and alcohol), but that he thought he might be dead.

Yeah, those excuses aren't helping.

Young and Rubinson pleaded guilty to abusing a corpse and identity theft and were sentenced to two years probation and ordered to do community service, pay restitution, and write letters of apology to Jarrett's family.

I think they should also be forced to watch Weekend at Bernie's once a day for the rest of their lives.

What sort of punishment would you give the "Weekend at Bernie's Duo"?

I realize time is money, but not only we, as customers, dislike this practice, but management hates it too.

In clubs where the house takes a cut out of each dance, I've heard it happening. The girls win but the club loses money. I've heard of managers going so far as requiring the girls to circulate just so that can't sit with a regular and take money under the table.

"If you guys could only see and experience what I have, it would blow your fucking mind. The money that travels through these clubs and that you can make off half the guys that walk in is insane. The things that I've had offered to me on a nightly basis, Omg, I value myself, I really do, but some of this stuff is nuts and I dont understand how people afford it."

Well some can & some can't. Stiletto25 I imagine your CLASS stands out like a sore thumb.

You're allowed a bit of a temper, considering how much some of us [sarcasm] "Yell & Scream" [sarcasm] around here. LOL





"Nothing good ever comes from being intoxicated."
&
"False. Some of the best head I've ever gotten happened when the fellatrix was intoxicated"

Perhaps. Ho-Hum.
Personally I desire that the dancer be reasonably sober when performing Oral Sex! I've been with a couple of drunk dancers trying to perform good Oral Sex. It was NOT a pretty sight gmd! I desire engagement and skill. Uncoordinated drunkenness doesn't allow IMO for engagement & a SKILLFUL application of mouth, tongue, throat & BRAIN!!!

If intoxicated BJs do it for you gmd, well that's your decision.

IMHO your fucking LUCKY this dancer wasn't really hunger & thought in her drunken state that your cock was a Hot Dog and bit it OFF!!!

ROTFLMFAO!!!

"Your dancer is a ROB. She always has been a ROB and always will be a ROB. For the year she knew you she was content to take your money slowly but on this night she showed her true self not by pushing the bounds in trying to get a little extra cash but by playing the indignant you owe me guilt trip. Why dancers suddenly do this short term gain ploy at the expense of long term cash varies but it is probably some pressing need in her life. It happens and when it does you need to be prepared to make a split second assessment and decision. You don’t owe her anything more than any previously agreed amount. Your options are 1) to pay her extortion if you are a pussy whipped bitch and want to keep giving her your money in the future or 2) tell the ROB to fuck off, don’t give her any extra and walk away. That decision is up to you but the second option is the correct choice.

Alcohol. For me there is no clubbing without alcohol. Nothing good ever comes out of an alcohol free night. But just like dealing with dancers if you don’t know what you are doing or can’t handle yourself then you may as well not go because you will regret it in the morning.

Dancer Earnings. This bullshit urban myth about dancers earning big money is exactly like all the get rich schemes that dreamers believe in. Sure there are the .0001% of dancers who are actually beautiful, tattoo free with brains and conversational skills that can bring in consistent high dollars but for the rest it is absolute BS. A $400 *shift* for the vast majority of dancers is a very good shift. There will always be the one infrequent night that a dancer does extremely well and/or the one or two PL regulars with more money than brains but it is not the daily norm. As a customer you should learn to make an educated judgment of the club/city/dancer’s going rates and don’t get suckered into paying tourist prices. For me a $400 hourly rate, even if that is the going rate, is not worth it. The bottom line is regardless of your financial means, never pay more than the going rate and/or what it is worth to you and don’t bid against someone who is willing to spend more than you.

Dancers are not there because they enjoy it. They are working and time is money. If they can make more money with someone else then that is what they should do. Understand and respect that. *She* (any and all dancers without exception) does *not* like you and you should admit that, not take it personally or else sign up for PL anonymous.

Don’t beat yourself up too much over this and just chalk it up to experience. Now whether or not you learn from that experience is up to you."

The "GOD" of Strip Clubs Hath spoken!

LMFAO

@jackkash- I can understand your point. Everyplace can turn into a mill. It depends on the work ethic of the girls that work there. It would definetly disrupt the natural flow if all dancers hustled hard though.

@govikings- I dont stay in the strip club business just to "get by". I could do that anywhere without taking my clothes off. When you work in places without high rollers, its more about seizing your opportunities. I try to seize all opportunities and bring out the maximum benefit for myself. Granted there are days when I just feel off and I'd rather hang out with a guy that will give me a massage and offer me $10 a song to sniff my feet. I have those days but I dont make it a habit. Maybe that'll pay someones bills but it wont pay mine.

@gsv- To each his own. For the record, I actually spend half my time in clubs that dont serve alcohol. And I refuse service to the severly intoxicated. They make me start to grind my teeth.

@motorhead- Ive never had a manager tell me that, especially when I'm selling rooms where they get a cut.

@che- Im literally laughing right now. Youre fucking hilarious buuuuuut youre also wrong

Although your last couple paragraphs have some points.

My phone is acting weird or I would have put everything in one post

Alucard said it best. I detect some pent up anger though.

Sorry - substitute Che for Alucard. Old eyes are getting weary.

"$400 an hour ISNT SHIT for one girl in a strip club on a prime night"

It seems to me that $400 a hour would be excellent:

$400
X 8 hrs
= $3200 a night
X 5 nights
= $16,000 a week
X 52 weeks
=$832,000 a year

Of course, dancers don't make that much every hour and so they don't have that kind of annual income. But when a customer like gsv spends that much, the stripper should show a little appreciation.

@Alucard: I'll completely agree that too drunk is not good, but "intoxicated" does not necessarily mean incapacitated or even seriously impaired. "Tipsy" is intoxication, as is "buzzed". A little relaxation goes a long way. Thus, your claim of "never" is... Somewhat less than completely accurate. :)

@Stiletto: $400 per hour is a *lot* and if you're getting that consistently, I'm even more impressed than I already was. It's also possible that you're current circulating in clubs that have a higher level of clientele than I'm familiar with. For instance, at one local club, the girls get 55% of everything they sell, drinks, dances, and VIPs (but only of they come in on time; of they're late, it's less). With VIP at $140 and $180 for a half hour and hour, respectively, the only way the girls can make $400 is to get close to, or over, $300 in tips for that VIP stay. In this particular club, she might be able to get that if all holes are open for multiple pops, but otherwise, not so much. For $22 lapdances, it's a little more plausible, if she can do 20 dances in an hour and get a $10 tip for each of them. For $22 drinks, it's nigh on to impossible to get to $400, because of the time spent with the customer, i.e. if a dancer wants another dring from me after only three minutes, she's SOL. :)

At the other end of the scale is PTs, arguably the "classiest" club in town. There, the girls keep $25 of the $30 per song fee, so $400 is well within the reach of a dancer who can sell 16 dances in an hour, assuming it's not 2 for 1 time, where her net goes down to the same $12 per song the BU girls are getting. VIPs earn the dancer $100 of the $175 half hour, and $200 of the $300 hour fees. And since ain't *nothing* happening in PTs VIP worth even the $300, much less another $200 on top of that, that kind of fortune only happens when the Farmers convention or Derby is going on.

And none of that takes into account tip outs, stage fees, etc.

If you're truly getting that consistently, or even moderately often, thank your lucky stars you live where you do. :)

@jackslash- When has a stripper ever worked that much?? I work 6 hour shifts and 3 days a week. The rest of the week is spent on my hobbies. Oh and I believe I said " prime night" in my phrase. So your calculations are not relevant.

@georg- Yes we're at different places .90% of my lap dance business is from $30 dances. I should have mentioned that before. Also Ive never worked anyplace where VIP was less than $400 per hour. Thats a minimum rate. The club will take a cut but then you negotiate your own " tip" on top. These are non extras clubs also. Ive worked at extras clubs before and actually made more money but was just too risky to stay.

@georg- If the internet on my phone quits crapping out, I can put all this in one post.

I don't do specials or I charge regular price. Yes, management gets mad but they can fire me, i dont care, I'll go down the street to someplace else. Also I investigate places I work very carefully regarding tip outs and I'm extremely stingy with Djs if they are assholes. House fees can be rough depending on the club and how much they make off alcohol or not. Here in Seattle, I keep the whole time $30. We have no stage fee or dance fee. We pay around $140 a night and whatever we make beyond that is ours.

Dances are only $20 at the club I'm referring to. Leaving tips aside, the girl would have to dance an entire hour straight (literally ZERO breaks) to make $400. Even with tips, she'd be dancing for 80%+ of that entire hour and that's sort of a tough thing to suggest. Not to mention there's *6* different girls in total on a variety of stages at once in this place. Within an hour, a girl has a high chance of being called to stage where she won't see more than maybe $20, max $40 in tips for her entire set of 3 songs. She also generally has to get to stage slightly early, and wait for the next girl to arrive to replace her. So it's about 4 songs that get lost just to dancing on stage.

I can understand a VIP or champagne room allowing the girl to make $400 in an hour. IMO, time in a VIP room SHOULD be priced more than time in a regular lap dance area.

@Che- I'd agree but I'll throw in some other numbers. I work 3 days a week. I do tip out most of the time and pay a house fee or others depending on where I work. I also take vacations from work. I take weeks off occasionally so I dont get too burnt out AND I have some expensive hobbies.

I enjoy myself alot but I dont see the point of throwing in the towel while I'm still on top. I see that as throwing away an opportunity. Maybe in a couple years when the fire burns out but that's about it

Stiletto25- I hear where you're coming from, and I think that's a great mentality to have. I was just simply agreeing 100 percent about what randy77 said earlier- MOST clubs have girls complaining about not making a couple hundred bucks a night- let alone $400 an hour. That's all I was trying to say.

I usuallly pay for talk. If they are sitting at my table I usualy give them a ten or so and another 20 if they stay for a while. Then of course get a lap dance from them and then they go to other customers and I move on to other girls for the time being. I can easily afford the clubs since I get plenty of money from my job and I don't have any dependents. All in all I am there for one thing. I want to have fun and I pay based on time and performance.

Interesting discussion. I usually don't mind talking to a dancer for a couple of songs, but that is the limit, after that, if I want dances, I get them, if not the dancer usually picks up on it and moves on. If the dancer stays on her own volition, without encouragement from me, I figure I don't owe her anything, and don't pay her for her time, even if she asks.

One thing I suggest as an interesting exercise is to at least once, go to a club, pick out a place where you can see the entire club and observe the dancers circulating, talking to customers, and giving dances. Pick out a dancer or two that give a lot of dances and see if you can track how many dances they give in an hour and estimate roughly how much they make. There is a big variance, but invariably the ones who make the most spend a lot of time circulating, spend a song or less with guys who they don't dance for, and maybe two or three dances with those who buy lots of dances, say four or five.

Armed with this information if you want a dancer to spend time with you, make her an offer to do so up front. If you figure she makes $200 an hour dancing, offer her $100 to spend the time you are at the club talking with you and perhaps giving you dances from time to time. She will usually want more, but you can negotiate, and most dancers will go for a sure thing at a lower price, particularly if they don't need to give the club a cut of all or it.

The thing I have never figured out is dancers who spend a lot of time at a table with one or two guys, the guys don't get dances, or maybe one or two in an hour, but the dancers still stay and talk. Maybe they get free drinks out of it, but I don't see how they can make any money doing that.

"@Alucard: I'll completely agree that too drunk is not good, but "intoxicated" does not necessarily mean incapacitated or even seriously impaired. "Tipsy" is intoxication, as is "buzzed". A little relaxation goes a long way. Thus, your claim of "never" is... Somewhat less than completely accurate. :)"

I'll agree gmd that we have different definitions of "Intoxication", as well as what constitutes "seriously impaired". Regarding getting relaxation from consuming alcohol, I've never understood the need for anyone to use alcohol to achieve "relaxation". I can get relaxed & be relaxed without ever consuming a drop of alcohol. BUT that is just ME! If someone needs it, well then they need it.



You're on a roll today Stiletto25!! KEEP going girl! Your phone problems aside. We need more of your Dancer's insight.

GSV, sorry to say it this way, but you made your own bed when you told a girl in an NYC club that you would "take care of her." I shouldn't have to tell you, of all people, that $200 doesn't exactly soak the panties of a girl working in an NYC club. C'mon dude. ;)

This is why I almost never club in Manhattan anymore. My favorite stomping ground in NYC is Queens. G2000, Rouge and Goldfingers are all much more fun than just about anything in Manhattan in my humble opinion.

Rick, you're probably right. I need to venture more out of Manhattan.

I like G2K, but never tried Rouge or Goldfingers. Would be happy to hear any advice you have about these joints.

G2K is fun, but for some reason I just never find it to be *as* fun as some of the Manhattan clubs.

Over my clubbing years I have met hundreds of dancers that average $400/hr.

They are the attractive articulate dancers with enough sense to know their market. They work part time and are always in demand. They work to support their lifestyle. They are opportunistic.

On the other hand, I have known many more that struggle to average $300/day. For them, it is full time work with long hours. They work because they can't do anything else to support themselves. They are in a rut.

They represent the 2 basic types of dancer.

I have always had better times with the opportunistic ones.

NEW RULES:
1. When the dancer sits next to you, ask her directly if she expets to be paid for joining you. Maybe too direct, but it keeps things straight.
2. If you were a regular for an ATF who suddenly hit you for "talk" money, close your wallet and your heart. Drop her. Spend generously elsewhere. She might learn she killed a good thing.
3. Always remember this is business, not high school dating. Dancers have no loyalty beyond the dollars.

"@Stiletto25. I didn’t peg you for a slacker only working 3 days a week and taking weeks off at a time like other strippers. Just my opinion but that sounds like throwing away opportunity. After all, every dancer has an *extremely* limited shelf life before she is relegated to the sleazy old perverts looking for a BJ. I do hope your hobbies aren’t the standard stripper hobbies. Putting your hard earned money up your nose or in your arm isn’t usually a wise investment. Best of luck and don’t hang around too long."

Mr Che you know absolutely NOTHING about Stiletto25. Zilch! Go make statements about Dancers you do know something about.

@Che- Aahhh, How did I guess I'd get a spiteful answer like that from you? Probably because I deal with your " kind" three times a week. You do sound like you have some pent up anger as one postr claimed. You dont like what I have to say to you so you resort to personal insults like "slacker". Adults on this site are hard to come by I'm figuring out.

Alucard is right by the way. He knows a great deal about me, that lucky guy lol

Alucard you know I got respect for you, but can Stiletto25 do any wrong in your eyes?

"Alucard you know I got respect for you, but can Stiletto25 do any wrong in your eyes?"

ranukam, you, me & Stiletto25 and every other human on this planet are all imperfect humans. We can all make mistakes in our lives, and do wrong.

By his arrogant words Mr Che seems to think he is above imperfection, as least as far as Strip Clubs go and probably in other areas also.

Go ahead Mr Che get your poison tipped arrows out. I have my target on! LMFAO

Is Che arrogant, or just unfamiliar with our language and its inflectiions and connotations?

His posts did not seem arrogant to me. I think too many times the gist of what people say here is is missed.

Wow, this string is still going, 24 hours later. Touched a nerve, GSV. Let's see if we can keep the flaming to a minimum though. We do not need to disparage others for their choices (trying to be an adult in the room). I have certainly come away with some good tips and impressions for both sides of this story.

"Is Che arrogant, or just unfamiliar with our language and its inflectiions and connotations?

His posts did not seem arrogant to me. I think too many times the gist of what people say here is is missed."

It is difficult to convey anything subtlety with the written word here in this forum & I agree that the gist of what people say here is is missed quite often.

BUT what I stated is MY opinion about Mr Che, based on how I interpret his posts as filtered through my gut feelings & life experiences.

You or anyone else can agree or disagree, that's your right.

Some goods actually bring in more total money if you artificially constrict demand. I can easily imagine this being true of some strippers. Their PL customers are just working their visits to accommodate the stripper's schedule. They will be texting her "what days do you work this week?" have their budget set aside and then spend it on her and her convince, rather than do the rational thing which is just find another whore to services them at their convenience. Sad but true.

Yeah, if they are around too often I can see some PLs not feeling the scarcity/importance and growing bored with her more quickly. Sad but not that hard to beleive!

As a rule of thumb, if a dancer, especially an ATF starts asking you to pay for her time, just let her go. That happened to me once before, and it really turned me off because I had been very generous with this dancer, and the bar was empty.
I now rotate between clubs, so I have "special friends" at different SCs. This way, you will always have a dancer who will like more, and you will get what you want.
There are too many strippers out here. If one isn't working out, drop them and move on. There will always be another PL to take your spot. Let them learn the hard way.

I think Stiletto is the exception. I'd bet good money she would come welcome a new patron then come by later to chat a minute or three before the press for a dance. Many times I go into a club and have money to spend and the girls will sit with guys that spend nothing but for drinks. The girls that make the money are willing to circulate, be friendly, spend a little time getting to know the customer and then ask for a dance. Walking up to a guy 15 seconds after he sits down and asking for a dance and when he says not yet you call him a cheapskate and never come back is stupid. I go to clubs to: 1] Relax and get away from the pressures of work, 2] See and interact with pretty naked or semi naked girls, 3] Get a girls undivided attention on my lap etc. (which I am willing to pay for). A girl who gives a disinterested lap dance for me will not get another.
Stiletto I have not been in a Seattle club that has a decent VIP area worth $400. Most clubs are DeJa Vue affiliated and the few that are not are pretty small.

I think she is exaagerating how much she makes, or she does more in terms of extras than she lets on or she is remembering the glory days of the internet boom era and not talking about the present. There were some strippers I would not fuck if they paid me who told me they were raking in $200k/y back then.

Dougster- Ive actually pm'd you numerous times since youve reviewed many clubs in Seattle where I live. Youve also reviewed the Spearmint Rhino in Vegas where Ive worked alot. Ive asked you twice if you would consider revealing your identity. You never responded. So lets see once you know who I am if you still believe your own post. We've probably met before.

So, please pm me if you'd like to meet and possibly back up your statement. After all, why make random statements here when you can look me in the eye and make them.

You are right, we have met. Do you think we got along? Do you think you did any extras? That's the "back up" for my statements.

I haven worked in an extras club (hand jobs) for four years. If we met then, you would know you paid me alot more than $400 an hour.

But, no, thats not enough back up and I'm calling your bluff. I dont think you know anything about me. So, again, please pm me and lets meet

What's in it for me? And if we were to meet what day of the week would it be?

Dougie!!! Seriously quit stalling! PM ME! For Gods sake, what does it take? If you're serious, pm me. God knows I'm tired of pming you with no response. Im not discussing anymore of this on a public forum. PM me and I will respect your privacy (like we lying, thieving whores do).

So, again, PM me. I have stuff to do but I will get an email if a PM shows up in my box. I will respond to you if I receive one.

Interesting thread here which as typical gets off the original topic. A couple things I'll add, based on recent experiences here in the hot, sunny South.

A dancer I've gotten to know enough to be a favorite told me recently the day before I saw her, she left with $30 after tip out, which is around $35 for the day shift. I've also been in there when she will point out her regulars with the comment "there's $300, there's $50". I asked her if that's how she viewed all her customers...you can guess her response..."yes most but not you..I enjoy hanging out with you." To get back to the opening post, I have tipped this dancer before when I haven't gotten any dances from her and she sat with me for an hour or two, although nothing like the amounts some have mentioned on here.

A new dancer who I met last week told me after several dances that she planned to leave when she reached her goal for the day, which was $500. She was not a high mileage dancer for the club, so I can't imagine that happening on a regular basis, much less on a slow Wednesday afternoon, but I guess it only takes one "right" customer for that to happen. I did 6 or 8 dances with her and we were the only people in the vip room for that half hour or so.

When I go to visit my ATF at her Club I end having typically several trips to the VIP area. NOT just I like a lot of men do with their chosen Dancer. I usually arrive at the time the Club opens. She will almost 95% of the time, spend the whole 7 hr shift sitting with me except when she is onstage or freshening up after stage work or spending a sexy time with me in the VIP. My ATF , of her own volition, decides to sit all this time & talk with me WITHOUT being paid for this time beyond my VIP trips. I, of course, buy her drinks. She has NEVER asked for talking $$$$. If she did, I'd pay it. I like this woman well enough to do that if she asked.



That's it Stiletto25!

Put Mr Dougster to the challenge!! He doesn't have the DAMNED BALLS to 'Really" back up his words!! Which are usually WRONG or absurd!!!!!!!

Just like Mr Che, MR Dougster knows ABSOLUTELY nothing about Stiletto25. Nada, ZILCH!

I'd LOVE to witness this meeting if Mr Dougster actually had the BALLS to confront Stiletto25 face-to-face!!

ROTFLMFAO at Dougster

@alucard: I don't think this is a road you want to go down. Does knowing the "hand job" club she worked at for four years count as more than "nada"? (Actually there was a bit more than hanjobs going on there.) How about the subject her degree is in? Stage name? You sure you want me to prove you wrong on that one? (Actually even if you do I am not going to. Her and I actually get along even better in person than we do on here, so for her sake, not yours, I won't.) ROTFLMFAO @ moron alucard.

Sorry Guys - MORE fencing with Mr Dougster

"Stage name? You sure you want me to prove you wrong on that one? (Actually even if you do I am not going to"

More empty bluffing Mr Dougster! The part "I am not going to" shoes you know nothing!

"Her and I actually get along even better in person than we do on here, so for her sake, not yours, I won't"

Defending Stiletto25's honor after putting her down Mr Dougster? You're UNREAL!
I repeat you don't know anything about Stiletto25.

See PM.

" shoes you know nothing!"

That should read: shows you know nothing.

Typo

The reason I don't post the information is for the sake of her privacy. It's really that simple.

But tell you what, you figure out a way for me to show I know it, and maintain the privacy and we'll go with that. Same with me meeting her (again) and maintaining my privacy. (And no her promise is not good enough after she has admitted to lying in the past.)

Tell me the protocol genius, and I'll play.

"The reason I don't post the information is for the sake of her privacy. It's really that simple"

It is "touching" that you are so concerned about her privacy after putting her down the way you did.

Huh? How did I put her down? You are reading stuff that isn't there - only in your "I want to be a white knight" imagination. Same as it ever was! Same as it ever was!

Read your own posts Mr Dougster, that is if you are remotely able to understand what you wrote. I kind of doubt it based on your post above! LOL

I love being a White Knight! ;) :)

Lets me use my lance to poke holes in Assholes like you!!! LMFAO

Didn't think you'd be able to answer it. Proven right. Again.

If a dancer is making $400 an hour and that's typical, she's working in a club with a lot more money than I believe I have visited.

As far the original question, it's obvious she just wants money for her time. I would have just stuck to money for dances and skip all the small talk and let her go get paid to talk to other guys if that's what she wants and others are willing to pay and you still want dances.

I try to avoid dancers who want money for time. If they look like they are in a hurry, I try to send them away in a hurry. I'm more likely to get upset after an hour or two and start thinking the dancer at my table wants to spend the whole night with me even though that was usually just one dancer and I was buying her beer and an occasional $10 table dance. Hey, after 2 or 3 hours I'm ready for variety even if she is hot and doesn't seem to show any sign of leaving for another table. Those situations don't usually last for too long. The first time I remember it happening I enjoyed it and the dancer was actually paying for her own drinks. I didn't realize at that time that was odd.

The last time the dancer called me her buddy. Maybe she felt like she wasn't really working when she was at my table. I didn't mind too much, she looked good and had good looking dancer friends often sitting with us. I drew the line there. Unless the dancer friend was really hot, I wasn't going to buy multiple drinks. Besides the dancer sitting at my table usually had me get her a less expensive beer. One night she bought me one before she went away for several months.

"The last time the dancer called me her buddy. Maybe she felt like she wasn't really working when she was at my table. I didn't mind too much, she looked good and had good looking dancer friends often sitting with us. I drew the line there. Unless the dancer friend was really hot, I wasn't going to buy multiple drinks. Besides the dancer sitting at my table usually had me get her a less expensive beer. One night she bought me one before she went away for several months."

A decent way to handle things. :)

It seems to me that if a Dancer is going to only get 1 trip with you to the VIP/Private_Dance_Area, then I can understand wishing to charge for talking time if over a certain threshold. I typically, if I have a Dancer I'm really interested in, will do > 1 trip to the VIP/Private_Dance_Area. Often several. So in that instance, I don't usually expect the Dancer to try to charge me talking time. If she would want to charge talking time under a multiple VIP/Private_Dance_Area trip scenario, then I'd sent her on her way & find another.

Another classic