I Sit On Acid

I may err on the side of being too open minded about music. I don't dismiss any style of music, no matter how negative my initial reaction. I've invariably found that when I take the time to listen patiently and make a real effort to appreciate it for what its fans hear in it, there's no style of music I can't find worthwhile. Each has good and bad practitioners, mostly bad in most cases, and usually the best aren't the most visible, so casual listening gives a stereotypical picture of a genre (e.g., country, metal, opera).

When we first hear something unfamiliar to our ears or our sensibilities, all we notice are the differences. Sometimes, we're seduced by its freshness or intrigued by its cleverness. Oten, we are repelled, annoyed, offended, or completely baffled. However, the more I listen, the less I fixate on differences and the more I hear what it shares with all music. Obviously, I don't have time to give to every one of the thousands of musical styles out there - nobody does - but when I don't "get" some style, I realize it's a shortcoming of mine, not anything intrinsic to the music, and no reason to doubt the ears of its fans. [insert bagpipe joke here]

I feel the same way about the different eras of music. The 60s & 70s was a great time for rock music, but like a lot of people I got kind of tired of hearing nothing else. I was glad that tastes finally moved on and new trends have emerged that emphasize different aspects of music. I don't buy the idea that pop music peaked 40 years ago and has been in decline ever since. I believe it has maintianed a fairly steady level of quality. It just depends on what you're used to hearing and what you expect of it. To somebody who was used to the classic songs of the 30s, 60s rock could have seemed hopelessly unsophisticated. To somebody accustomed to today's frank sexuality and hypnotic beats, 60s rock might sound naive and rhythmically dull. They'd be missing out, and so is anyone who insists the music they grew up with is the only true yardstick.

Finally, this idea that something "isn't music" because it isn't sung or played according to the technical specifications you think are correct is beyond me. If you don't like it, fine. But it seems self-evidently silly in this day and age say that music only qualifies as music depending on whether it's acoustic, amplified, live, recorded, overdubbed, pre-programmed, sung operatically, into a microphone, talked, written by the singer, with or without guitars, synthesizers, session men, sampled, looped, recorded from elephants, whatever. It's all music, whether you tune it out or not.

Dan, I could tell your familiarity with techno was pretty slight. That superfast style was big about 10-15 years ago, but it's only one substyle of techno and it practically disappeared years ago, except for maybe some out of the way or diehard pockets of resistance. It probably still defines techno for many casual listeners, because it was such a cartoonishly exaggerated version of a few features of the music. So, I may have overreacted by calling that a "strange notion" - it could be a widely held notion based on the easily recognized examples of techno that showed up in movies, TV ads, et cetera. There has always been stuff out there with far more naturally paced rhythms and subtle textures and expressiveness.

Chandler, Beastie Boys make fun of rap, they're doing rap parody and are very good at it. That's how they started and that's why they continue to be popular. It's rap for people who hate rap.

And yes all recordings today are electronically modified and often contain computer-generated sounds. But the essence of many recordings are still people who spent many years developing technique on their instruments and learning the fundamentals of music theory. Just like I did. I call such people musicians, the rest of them entertainers. They may be good entertainers, if that's your thing, but they aren't musicians, and I prefer music made by musicians. Call me old fashioned but I'd much rather listen to someone who has mastered an instrument or his vocal chords than someone who knows how to program a computer. I have a very simple rule - if the music can't be performed live by the person or group, I'm not interested in hearing it.

Many of the girls at my local clubs are downright vicious about any other dancer playing 'their' band or songs.

One girl with 'seniority' makes it known to the others that she is the 'Tool' chick. Any other dancer playing it is sure to face her formidable (and possibly physical) wrath.

DG loves a good catfight

Chandler, I understand, but still I chafe at calling most of them artists. Beethoven never cut an album, but both as a musician and a composer he was an artist in the true sense of the word. Just being Mr. Picky-Language-Person again, but I prefer to reserve certain words for when they actually apply or else they lose their meaning.

If the dancer is close to decent, metal always gets a little extra tio from me. Fuglies still get the required buck.

FONDL: Excuse me, I thought you were curious. I shouldn't have bothered. BTW, the Beastie Boys were rap, and most pop music nowadays includes sound made by humans using computers.

My bias is that sounds made by computer rather than people constitutes noise, not music. The reason I don't know the difference between rap, hip hop, and techno is that I never listen to any of them. I want to hear people playing instruments and singing in their natural voices. The rest doesn't interest me.

AN: I understand that you hate rap. I think you've confirmed my explanation for why Outkast is the hip hop artist of choice for boomers. BTW, "artist" is simply the term designating the main performer on a recording. Beethoven was actually a composer.

Dan: I was simply trying to answer FONDL's question and offer a suggestion as to why he could think Hip Hop and Techno sound the same.

I gotta say, you have some strange notions about Techno. BPM are critical, since tracks are continuously beat mixed, however "how many you can make" isn't what it's about, since the answer would be infinite. Also, Techno was originated by black guys and much of the most innovative music continues to be made by black guys. You are correct that it is lyricless, except when it has, like, singing of lyrics.

Chandler- Actually, in a way, hip hop does sound like music from 30 years ago, because they use samples of music made 30 years ago. There isn't much original instrumentation in hip hop/rap, so far as I can tell, anyway.

Techno is basically how many beats per minute you can make. And its essentially lyricless. And made by white guys. Techno

Many Hip Hop "artists" may have written catchy tunes, but I've never heard them. Nor have I heard rappers or hip hop artists sing. I think in the case of Outkast part of the appeal was that it was a throwback, you know to when musicians had talent. Now they just have a pose and attitude, talent is pretty much secondary to the right image. What they do may have wide appeal, but I wouldn't call most of it music, and I certainly wouldn't clasify any of them as artists.

Beethoven was an artist because he could bring forth from his mind a score including parts for 20+ different instruments plus a chorus and four soloists and blend everything into an hour long composition of unsurpassed beauty that has been universally acclaimed as one of the greatest pieces of music ever written for nearly 200 years.

Somehow I just don't think a guy who can make up some cool rymes to a baseline ranks in the same catagory.

I have now completed my trip into fogeydom.

I'm telling my age here, but I remember a song from the first time I visited a strip club. The Cars, "I Love the Night Life Baby" at Tattletale's in Atlanta. I think about that every time, which is rare these days, that I hear that song. Late 70's.

After "The Way You Move" and especially "Hey Ya", Outkast seemed to suddenly be every middle aged guy's token Hip Hop act to be "down with".

Chandler, yep, I liked them too. Funny how someone who can actually sing and write a catchy tune can attract a wider audience.

My favorite is anything by the Beastie Boys, especially their first album, because my ATF used to dance to it all the time. I also have a very soft spot for Cheryl Crow's song, don't remember the name, that includes the lyrics "then why the hell are you so sad" which brings back a very strong memory of an evening in a strip club with a girl who was special to me before the wheels fell off. I was very depressed at the time and that song really hit home.

Beyond that I think the music should match the audiance to some extent. In other words, if the audiance is primarily old white guys, like it usually is during the day when I go, they should be playing old-time rock instead of rap, hip-hop or techno (is there a difference between hip-hop and techno?, they sound the same to me.)

Dozens of hip hop artists have sung and written tunes before that were just as catchy, Outkast included. The difference was how those hits sounded reminiscent for boomers to favorites from their past, like Earth Wind & Fire.

FONDL: Hip Hop and Rap are mostly the same thing. Hip Hop is the the broader musical (and cultural) style that can include rapping, singing, samples or just instrumental music. Techno is the sort of chilly, repetitive, futuristic sounding electronic dance music, usually without vocals, that is (was?) played at raves. The term has also become widely used just to describe any pop music that uses a lot of synthesizers or electronic production.

Neither Hip Hop nor Techno sound very much like any music that was popular more than 30 years ago, so it may all sound the same if your reference points are from an earlier time.

I have to admit, I dig Outc(k?)ast too. Silly young guy I ain't, but I can handle Eminem and Outk(c?)ast. Hendrix tops 'em, tho ...

Hendrix is hotter than Enigma.

I might tip someone a little more if they play certain bands or something that you would not expect in a strip club. The girl doesn't have to be my type to at least get a tip, but she can't be fugly either.

Girls, and clubs in general, that play crunk ("c'mon niggah hump that ass up c'mon niggah ...") or mindless country-western ("mah dawg stole mah piggup truck and I luuuv yew ...") lose a lot of points for me. But generally I understand that it's often the DJ or the manager who chooses the tune.

I know that any girl who plays Tool (or a girl for whom they play Tool) gets a tip from me. One of the girls at my favorite club, if I'm there, will play Tool just for me, or so it seems.

What's interesting is if you're at a club where there is a juke box and you choose the tunes for them. I got a girl to do a whole set of Rush tunes once, which to me is weird, because how often do they play Rush in strip clubs?

I never tip because of the song. I don't expect to hear music I especially enjoy in strip clubs. I'm not sure I would want to. I'm content to have them play ordinary strip club fare that doesn't command too much attention.

I have fond memories associated with "I Sit on Acid". It was my ATF's favorite song to dance to about 8 or 9 years ago. I didn't care much for the song, though. It was pretty worn out even by then, having been a dance hit in the late 80s. I still hear it fairly often in strip clubs.

I don't tip at all for the music.. though any country is a complete bummer. I just don't think the two mix... grinding one's goods to Johnny Cash? Ehhhh. Pass. Now, a girl is more likely to catch my eye for lapdances on the floor if she's actually dancing TO the music (instead of IN SPITE OF) and having fun up there. I've seen girls dance exactly the same to Promiscuous Girl as they do a Zeppelin song.

It's kind of interesting to see you guy's tastes in music at these places. For myself, I've gone into a club and then never gone back just because the music mix was bad.. in this case it was all metal. And one of my favorite clubs is getting less of my patronage because they completely took any rap/hiphop out of the mix. I prefer a nice combo of about 25% rap/hiphop (not that Miami rump shaker stuff.. I'm talking Kanya West, LL Cool J, etc).. 25% modern/alt (Tool, Nickelback, Foo Fighters, etc).. 25% Hard Rock/Metal (Korn, Disturbed, etc) and 25% other (the stray techno, Enigma, Moby, Fatboy Slim, etc). That pretty much mirrors my tastes in real life. But at least some Hiphop has got to be in the mix. It's just too hot seeing naked chicks dancing to that stuff.

By the way, in the VIP room with the right girl, an Enigma song is the hottest thing to get a dance to. Pure sex.

chandler- You probably have a point. I like to think of myself as a music expert, but dance music, such as techno, was never my thing. In truth, I only know techno when I hear it.

I have some musician friends who were talking about a certain less than highly talented trumpet playing aquaintence of theirs. One of them refered to him as a trumpet player, then corrected himself and said no, he's a trumpet owner/operator.

Book Guy, that's funny, whenever I see the name "Spearmint Rhino" for some reason I picture Goldie Hawn painted in neon body paint dancing in a cage in a bikini while 5 guys in Nehru jackets and rose tinted glasses groove to the latest psychedelic sound.

There's a club in Memphis that was offering live rock band accompaniment to the strip clubbing, can't remember which one.

I would really like to see a "psychedelic" club, where music that is basically rave - techno - non-planned computer music, drifting along for five or ten minutes of "zone out" sound, accompanied a dancer's stage show. It would enable patrons to get lost in the moment and really lose a sense of reality. Sounds like Enigma, Tangerine Dream, Manheim Steamroller, even Wyndham Hill. I don't actually LIKE most of that music, but I think it would contribute positively to the "getting stoned on staring at tits" experience that I find necessary to get into the mood. I have to "zone out" somehow first, and then I want lappers and more stripper interaction.

Yeah, it never occurred to me until just now, but we regularly say "Columbia Records Recording ARTIST" when we should be saying "Columbia Records Recording Technician" or "Employee" or "Front Man" or "Figurehead" or "Studio-Enhanced Vocal Entrepeneur." The old meaning of "artist", closer to "creator" and "deep thinker" and "makes meaningful contribution to our understanding of the world" has been abandoned in this context.