Harassment over OTC/ITC?

Fetish - Yes, there's always the 5% in any customer population who make life tough on all of us. I appreciate your candor and if I heard it in a club, would think that's fine. No harm on my part for asking, and no foul on the part of yours for saying no. Clear communications is key, and you're right, don't bug me for tips, and I'll buy more dances and tip a lot anyway... :)

Appreciate your post.

Thank you, Rod. Nope, no harm whatsoever in asking. :)

I'll sometimes ask two or three times, over multiple visits, based on the possibility that she's just being cautious, but if I've been polite, and she's still saying no that third time, I'm probably going to stop. Maybe sooner if, like you, she's up front and determined with her response, maybe once or twice more if I think she's being coy. I'm definitely not going to ask over and over and over again; that's a waste of my time as well as hers. I just don't see the point.

You and I run on the same page, GMD, lol. Asking over a few visits is fine, but 10 times in a row on the same night is not (true story). While customers have the luxury of telling me to get lost if I don't put out, as a dancer, I don't have the same privilege of telling a pushy guy to go fuck himself with a cactus, unless I immediately wanted to be named the club's biggest bitch.

I agree that guys shouldn't aggressively push for extras ITC/OTC. Customers should be respectful. However, guys have learned from experience that if they don't ask, they don't get. I hope dancers won't be too offended if we ask for more as long as we accept the limits they set.

While I am sure that there are some idiots who think that their dick or their wallet is going to make you swoon, and while it's never right for anyone to get angry when you say "no", there are probably some legit repeat requesters, too.

(Note: anything I attribute to you may not be what you would do or think, but how's the customer going to be sure of that?)

1. If you're the guy's favorite, he may not be interested in pursuing extras from others. If you're far and away his favorite, it may even be to where he'd rather have nothing than something from another dancer. And he may think that there's a chance that you've changed your mind.

E.G. while it may be a hard ethical line that you're unwilling to ever cross, maybe he doesn't know that. And maybe if a financial crisis came about, you might be willing to change your mind, maybe even "just this once".

1. Similarly, you say "every club has at least 2 girls min who will do that". Even if you could point him to them, what if they aren't his type? While it is true that sex is like pizza, in that there's no such thing as bad pizza, I'm not paying for it with just anyone.

2. Or for that matter -- and admittedly this is a bit crass -- it can be a lot more fun to get it (whatever "it" is) from the girl who wouldn't than to just get it easily from the dancer who's the revolving door.

3. Less crass, but in a similar vein, just because she does it all the time, the revolving door may suck (no pun intended) at it. And there aren't that many virtual necrophiliacs out there who'd enjoy ITC/OTC with a nearly lifeless woman.

4. I know a few dancers who have said "I don't do that" (whatever "that" was) and it was just because they didn't know me well enough to admit that they do do "that". Once they got to know me better, I found out what their true limits were.

5. You said yourself that you used to be judgmental about dancers that gave extras, but not so much anymore. Who's to say that further down the road, you don't change your mind further? I have a feeling that very few dancers walk in on their first day, lay down on the floor, spread their legs, and start selling tickets.

Now me, personally, I'd have to really want a dancer before I'd ask over and over. If I want repeated rejection, I'll go find my ex.

(When I started writing my novel, there were no comments, so I didn't know about the "10 times in one night" thing. Obviously that doesn't apply to what I said. I was thinking moreso over several visits.)

@jackslash: Asking is fine. Most of the guys who ask are very polite about it. I had one guy demand that I allow him to put his fingers in my pussy, but that's a very rare thing. Usually what'll happen is either he will ask for a VIP or I'll offer one after I've been sitting with him about 15-20 minutes. The conversation is usually "What can we do in there/what will you do for me?" and me responding "I'll give you a great dance, but just a dance" or something along those lines. I have to admit, I used to be offended when guys asked, but now I laugh at myself, and just say no politely when asked.

@LeeH:

1. There are a few of those guys who do attend the club regularly and spend money on me. However, as they come in nearly every night and we've already had a discrete convo about it, they know not to press the issue. As far as a financial crisis, if I was ever desperate for money, I wouldn't strip, simply because I don't want to be in a situation where I would even have to consider that. No offense. I'm not desperate or hard-up for money, so saying no (always gently and politely) is very easy for me to do.

2. If they're not his type, I'm not sure what to do? I mean, it's flattering to know I might be his only type, but there's not much I could do in that situation D:

3. I can see how that would work, heh.

4. Again, see #2.

5. After a month of seeing regulars, they know what the limits are.

6. While I've given up judgment, I haven't changed what I'm willing to do. :D If a dancer puts out, it's no longer a hot moral issue for me. I'm just not going to do it.

Thanks for your post :)

1. No offense taken.

2-4. Oh, I'm not saying you should change your mind just because you're his favorite. Now if you're my favorite ... ;-)

1. Maybe I don't go often enough, but my experiences of "don't" changing to "do" has usually been over several months.

Recognize how you're different, though. Your take is "I don't do extras, but I'm a stripper". Many others have the take that "I'm a stripper who doesn't do extras." There's a big difference, and the latter's mind will more easily change than yours. And how's the legit customer going to know which camp you fall into?

If a dancer has me asking to meet up with her later, I must be drunk. Dancers have deterred me by talking about meeting up as if they were serious but go dating etc. like boyfriend and girlfriend. Well one dancer that is. I believe she was serious too. I haven't talked about it since then. It is correct, there are some dancers out there especially in a very large club that want to hook up in exchange for some cash with the right guy. Most dancers are probably not into that in some clubs and even the dancers who do that may be selective about who they hook up with.

Some guys who don't go to strip clubs much have an attitude that any stripper will have sex if you offer them enough money. Then again some guys are annoying and persistent. I'm glad I don't have to talk to them like the dancers do. If a customer visits a wanna dance club and he easily attracts a lot of dancers, he might be able to get a feel for which dancers would be willing to bend rules. Every club can be different though.

I respect dancers that tell things like they are instead of playing games and misleading you or ripping you off. However there are some guys who will see that as a challenge and they may be looking for a challenge. I'm just there to relax and have a bit of fun.

Fetish, it's a men from Mars, women from Venus thing. Men have built roads through jungles, fighting mosquitos, malaria, and hostile natives, not because a woman asked him to, but because it needs to be done. The road wouldn't have been built if the guys gave up at the first sign of resistance.

Please understand that I'm not being crass. You have a code, and you live by it, good for you. Women in strip clubs are sex workers, no two ways about it. Part of your job is putting up with assholes. My company recently put me in a front office position where I deal with hundreds of people everyday. If you think you're the only one who puts up with assholes, think again. I'm applying to other companies to get away from it. If putting up with assholes is too difficult for you, do what I'm doing.

Hi F_D About the last two lines in your discussion, I've spoken of Denise's Rule before but it may be worth repeating here: "God created man with two heads and enough blood to run one at a time". Couple that with a gut full of beer or worse and presto! you've got a customer who may not exercise the best judgment. It is GREAT that you are up front about your limits. No right thinking person could object. And if they aren't thinking at their best, you can't let it bother you. I mean imagine that, a horny drunk at a SC. So in the words of Tyrone F. - Do you believe in the hereafter? - Then you know what I'm hereafter.

fetish, I enjoy your well-written posts and your thoughtful responses. I do think most of the guys on here respect your choice to not do any extras. But I don't think that the guys on here are representative of the entire club-going public. TUSCLers may be more realistic, mature, and tolerant, but also may be more inclined to pursue extras ITC or OTC. Or they just might be more smooth in the asking.

I never usually expect anything like an extra when I walk into a club. But I had a fave one time who was comfortable with me and that sometimes things just happened. One time she was pretty inebriated and she initiated a hot finger-banging and quickly moved into a FS that I had to quickly bail out of because the bouncers were standing and pointing in our direction. I certainly didn't expect it, it just happened, and neither one of us treated it like an extra in that it didn't trigger a big tip and she didn't ask for anything.

And I'm not sure what exactly constitutes an extra. Another time with the fave, we were clicking again and I asked her to insert her finger. She did and then I sucked her finger. It was about a second of hotness but then it just tasted like nail polish, since she always was getting her nails done. That was a little above and beyond the call of duty for her, but again neither one of us treated it like an extra. Is a quick grab inside my pants crossing that extras line? What about a slow sensuous sucking of my nipple while she massaged my package over my clothes? What about a quick tongue swirl around the head of my penis? What about placing her cooch right in front of my face for a 2-second DATY? None of these things meet the definition of conventional extras, but they do make the dance very erotic. And I would usually pad what I paid for the dances to show my appreciation. But there was no discussion, no agreement, no conversation. I'm not trying to prod you into doing anything, I'm just laying some other points out on the table.

I am long past the point on wasting time on a girl that is clearly not going to do these things. There are simply plenty who will.

I focus primarily on single moms, which makes things a lot easier. The following usually are not great targets for the described reasons:

1. Young, single girls without kids are usually bad targets becasue they still attach a certain amount of importance/esteem to sex and their pussies. However, the mystique is usually long gone for a woman who has squeezed out a kid or two, as is any pretense of chastity.

2. Married strippers are also usually low ROI targets - or at least the ones that admit to being married. ;) Not only is their marital status often an issue for them, but they often have a second income in the house so are undr less pressure to earn.

3. I avoid, like the plague, girls that dance part time but have a F/T day job. Dancing is often just an extra sideline for them so they are much less likely to feel pressure to do naughty things in order to earn the rent money.

Now one could argue with any of these. Hell, I myself have fucked a few single, childless dancers, as well as at least one that had a day job. But in my experience single mothers are, far and away, the best target.

But, of course, I NEVER put pressure on any girl, period. Rather, I always position myself as the nice guy who would like to help, but doesn't really spend much on plain vanilla activities. Her natural pressures will usually do the work for me while I get to remain the good guy. ;)

@LeeH: The legit customer isn't required to know which camp I fall into. I expect to be asked for any kind of extra at least eight times a night from different patrons. The legit customer, however, needs to know when to take no for an answer, not ask "why?" or try to enter monetary negotiations with me, i.e. "I'll give you X for Y" after I've already said no. It's just basic human decency, which there is little of in clubs.

Think about it this way. There's a fugly stripper on stage -- think of the ugliest one you've ever seen -- and she takes a liking to you, continuing to ask for tips and drinks and VIP dances though you might have made it clear, either through word or gestures, that you're just not the least bit interested.

@sharkhunter: It seems like the majority of customers enter a club expecting something extra, at least where I work. It ranges from anywhere between a very bold "I want to fuck you/can I get some pussy?" when I've only asked for a tip after my stage set to "what can we do in the VIP?" It doesn't offend me, I just say no and move on if that's all they want.

The reason I don't play games when it comes to extras is because number one, it's an asshole thing to do; the guy tipping well and buying dances is the one putting money in the dancer's bank account, and two, I don't want to be in a situation where I've promised something and don't deliver. I've seen guys come roaring out of the VIP area just angry as hell for one reason or another, and I have to imagine it's because some girl promised an extra and fucked him over on it.

@Dudester: I like you and like reading what you have to say. I've worked with assholes in every job I've had; it's just a little different when you're topless and working with assholes. Anyway, the repeated asking is exasperating, but it's not gonna drive me away from my job. I was just wondering if any of you could shed some light on why a patron would want to hear "no" repeatedly, lol.

Hi, Rlionheart. Good post, great quotes. Grin and bear it, eh? :)

@looneylarry: Yes, I figured as much. You guys have perfected what seems like an artform; the average customer is like a drunken thirteen year old boy with the mental capacity of a two year old. As far as extras, I think it's up to the dancer what they may or may not consider an extra. For me, I tell the VIP customers they can touch anywhere except for the private region. I really don't like having my nipples messed with, but if you're not biting (true story) or yanking on them (also true story) I'll tolerate it.

@RickDugan: Appreciate your honesty. I think over 2/3rds of dancers are single moms anyway, or have a deadbeat BF. And what's ROI? /dippus

FD, ROI means "return on investment." And no problems on the honesty front, bro.

fetish, I reread your post to me a few more times. I guess it is a compliment in that the TUSCL guys DON'T act like drunken 13-year-olds with the mental capacity of 2-year-olds. So we got that going for us. ;) I always like the use of the euphemism "private region"--I think it usually means the vagina, but when it is used vaguely it might mean inner thighs or butt crack or something. As I complete my scouting report for my first visit to your club (smirk), you will need to clarify "private region". In all seriousness, most state laws regarding sexual assault have 3rd degree as non-consensual contact with the clothed or unclothed breasts, genitals, or buttocks. So their definition of "private region" seems broader. And every time you get a little feisty, my pulse quickens a bit. :] Also did you clarify this fetish thing yet, or did I already miss it? Latex, stilettos, fish net, chaps, BDSM, strap-on, cheerleader, nun, sexy gardener, what is it?

fetish_dancer, the guy you described isn't a legit customer; he's an @ssh0le. ;-)

By "legit customer", I mean:

• Someone who doesn't ask more than once a visit, and as soon as you say "no", he shuts up about it.
• Someone who doesn't think his mad negotiating skillz (or dick size) are gonna change your mind.

I admire your strength of conviction. And I gather that if (God forbid) finances got to be where extras seemed like a good way to solve the problem, you'd figure something ELSE out, even if it meant personal sacrifice or even got out of dancing altogether just to avoid the temptation. Whereas other dancers, who entered the business fully intending not to do extras, may not go to the lengths that you would, if push came to shove.

And I'm not talking about a dancer who just sighs and thinks, "OK, well, if I'm gonna make it, I'm just going to have to boink everything that moves." But rather a dancer who decides that she's gonna "expand her repertoire" to some degree for a very select few. And I have specific evidence that such dancers exist.

Just from the way you express yourself, I think you're pretty hot. ;-) And if I didn't know that the line was inviolate for you, and I was your customer, I'd probably double-check every once in a while.

@RickDugan: I see! TUSCL has its own lingo; I've just never come across that one yet :D @looneylarry: Yes, it's a great compliment. I met a TUSCLer once, actually. We sat together for a while he regaled me with really interesting stories of the clubs, worldwide, he'd been to. Lulz at the 'feisty' comment; I get feisty here because I can't get feisty with the customers, though some nights it would be the height of pleasure to stiletto a few of them in the balls. Anyway, moving on: private region for me means the kitty and the exit! I don't like them touched, even through underwear, or toyed with, and I certainly don't like fingers slipped beneath my thong. I'll push your hand away. Gotta keep something off limits, imo. Inner thigh, upper outer thigh, fine.

The "fetish" thing, I must confess, has tapered off a bit, though I prefer black/latex clothing and metal accessories. Now that I've found some good places to purchase -- dancerwear is ridiculously expensive -- I'd like to get back into it. BDSM sub is the image I like to portray, and most guys are intrigued by it because they figure that with my chain and my stage name, I'd be the top, but I just demur and say what I'd prefer, and they have to ponder that for a moment.

@LeeH: OIC. My bad! Thanks for clarifying. And yes, if I ever got to the point where I was needing money enough to consider extras, I'd quit, hands down, and find something else to do. It seems the dancers you're describing already have a great degree of trust and familiarity with the customer they decide to have sex with, which is good -- quite a bit safer than the girl who meets up with a perfect stranger -- but I'd personally not prefer to mix my outside life with my job. And it is a job, no matter how pleasurable it is to be on stage! I keep a degree of separation between the two.

awww, you're sweet. :D

fetish_dancer: Yeah, you got what I was saying there. The "select few" would be the ones the dancer knows and trusts.

hmm most of the time.. otc for me has been asked by the dancer.. i would hate to ask a dancer and she gets offended by it because thats not my intention to offend so me myself i usualy let the dancer ask 1st or see if its even there to even ask.. but one you say no im not going to ask again.... i did have 1 dancer tell me no.. and a hour later as i was leaving the club she was in the parking lot she asked if i wanted to take her home... .. you just neverknow

@rell: I've heard of that happening, too. Maybe she just had to think about it, lol.

@rell: OTC isn't my thing, so I never ask for it. On the other hand, in the last few years I've been offered OTC during over half of my SC visits. I've come to believe there is a direct correlation between not asking and the offers.

I thought fuckhead_dancer quit? Couldn't make money in the real world (not surprising since she has no brain) so I guess she is back at letting guys cum on her for cash. Sad, only way she can make money.

Yeah. No definitely means no in this case, regardless of how it's said. If she says 'I would love to but I'm not allowed,' it's still just a nice way of saying no. Don't bother whining, begging or bringing it up again.

Take a hint.

I see Douchester is back wildly posting when he's not helping his mother with her prosperous truck stop glory hole business. They cut him a deal because he's "Hoover's" son. :D

LMAO

ROTFLMMFAO @ fetish_dancer's last comment

fd,

As a female, I wouldn't think you would give an ass such high esteem as to equate him with a douche.

LOL.

Score one for fetish_dancer.

Damn, f_d, I wanna spank you. Or you can spank me. With your metallic stuff. You are full of piss and vinegar and I love it.

larry, get in line and wait your turn, dude.

I am surprised to see that f_d could probably hold her own in a "flames war"; I was convinced that she was just another motor-mouth stripper. Good job!

No means no.

I've been reading fetish_dancer's threads all day, and I must say they are very entertaining. To answer this thread I don't look for extras, so I never ask them anything about ITC. As far as OTC if the night in the club is going well between us, then I'll have no doubt she'll say yes.

On a sidenote, fetish is one of the few people that actually one upped Dougster in a flame war.

I have a favorite dancer who is 36 years old, Chinese-American, and allows no extras. When I first met her 6 or 7 years ago, I honestly didn't know that "extras" were an option at this club. When one of her co-workers whispered in my ear,"I'll suck you off for $100.", I learned very quickly. I still stop in to see my friend and have met her for lunch OTC. I used to think with time and familiarity, I might find the key to her bedroom, but I'm now fully aware that it ain't gonna happen. She is a very hard working, very talented stripper. More power to her.