CLUB TROUBLE DUE TO REVIEW ?

Having dancers who do extras brings more money to the club, regardless of the risk. I don't think club owners/managers give a shit about the internet.

I am being repetitive when I say that no good can come from posting specifics on here about services and ESPECIALLY the particular girl that provided them. LE, club management, another girls at the club harboring a grudge, or potentially other parties could read this info. and use it against the girl or in some other way that is to our overall disadvantage.

I have a number of regular posters on here that I share specific info. with, but never in an open forum.

I strongly agree with rickdugan's response. I am new to tuscl and the reviews I posted after my first trip were much too "enthusiastic". I was in awe of this whole new world that I didn't know existed. Any reviews I have posted since and in the future will be toned down and much lighter on specifics.

I try not to mention specific dancers in reviews for this particular reason. On the other hand, I don't always remember that.

famerart,

Well, I hope you'll continue to include little gems like this one:

"You cheap asshole! What do you want for $150 - my soul?"

Got to be one of my favorite lines from a review, lol.

yup i think and have said before that some peeps are giving out too much info. there are more eyes reading this forum than just us guys who are posting.

There is absolutely no evidence that LE has ever used any information obtained from TUSCL in any investigation or arrest. After all, they'd tell us about if they did, right? 'Cause LE is so open and forthright concerning their information sources. You guys are just a bunch of fraidy cats, get over it. Stop interfering with my information flow, you right wing nut moron n00b trolls.

Fuck em if they can't take a joke. All of this is a figment of our imagination, right?

For some posters, LE is probably less of a concern than a divorce attorney finding out about your online personna.

This has come up before. I'm inclined to believe the #1 source of info for law enforcement is still the grapevine -- meaning an officer either hears that a friend got something unusual at a club or heard from a friend they know someone who did. Or, there's some sort of incident at a club between dancer and patron such that the Police are called or some dancer spills the beans on another dancer for some reason. Then, depending on how it's viewed at HQ (and what the communities expectations are), determines how fast they swoop in for a crackdown.

Most clubs are so poorly run that it's inconceivable that management is reading this site. If they were, lot's of stupid practices would be fixed.

lol gmd. I think you are channeling.

The point is that we don't know, EITHER WAY, how pervasive the use of this site is by LE, but the most logical assumption is that at least some LE agencies are. Why wouldn't they use the info. to, at the very least, help in determining where to focus additional scrutiny?

We also don't know how many club owners and managers read this board, but the safe assumption is that at least some of them do.

From my perspective, the point is that this is an open forum and any number of parties could readily use the info. for purposes contrary to our best interests, such as clamping down on a club or particular girls. Why give them anything that can be used to hurt our sport?

having been clubbing for the better part of 3 decades, am in complete agreement with remarks by OhioV and ArtCollege. Think I've come across one dancer who was aware of this site. It's obvious to me that the strip club industry ignores it. And at the clubs i frequent, LE activity is the same now as it was before the internet. the real proof is this: when the state of Ohio enacted antistrip club legislation in 2006-7, i did not see a single instance where info from this site (or any other) was used as justification for tighter restrictions...

Read the disclaimer at the bottom of the page: Everything written on this site should be considered a work of fiction.

Imnum, so no perceived increase in LE activity, no quotes from a strip club site in justification for legislation, and the fact that you have never met a dancer that knows tuscl are the "proof" that club managers and LE are not reading this stuff? Really?

That ranks right up there with another poster's theory that a lack of offical attribution to this and other sites by LE realting to club raids was "proof" that they never read website info.

Maybe you're right and that this whole "interweb" thing is just too complicated for LE and club managers to figure out. After all, getting on to this site is just so damned difficult that they would clearly be baffled.

However, in the spirit of common sense, something seriously fucking lacking from some posters when it comes to this issue (and maybe willfully so), I will (and others should) continue to be careful in what I post on a board that can be read at will by anyone with a computer.

in official

I read in a news article about Platinum Plus in Memphis being raided and here is a quote from the article:
"Moreover, patrons openly discuss prostitution at local clubs on the online Ultimate Strip Club List at www.tuscl.com."
http://www.tuscl.net/dt.php?DID=107433

I'm not saying LE used ONLY tuscl when making the raid, but it might have helped/encouraged them to do so.

i never said "they never read website info" rickdugan. go back and read my words. but i'll spell it out so that even you can understand it. whether they read stuff on this site or not, LE, management,strippers...don't...appear...to...me...to...pay...any....attention...to...it.

Just an opinion. So calm down, son, go to your nearest club, and have a nice night.

son? lol. Ah, I get it - they MAY read it but either don't care or don't believe it. Got it now :)

All sarcasm aside, my particular issue has to do with the fact that, in the NYC/CT clubs that I like, raids and other LE scrutiny are a fact of life. In the last decade, the clubs that I enjoyed the most from an extras perspective, and had the most buzz on this site and SCL, always seemed to be the ones that got raided and shut down (at least temporarily).

Again, not absolute proof the the websites were a contributing factor, but highly coincidental at best. This is why I am particularly aggressive about this issue and will continue to be. Don't mean to come off as harsh, and your experiences may be different, but I just got tired of my favorite clubs getting shot down, especially about 6-7 years ago.

The notion that failure of club management, law enforcement or legislators to mention any individual source of information, such as TUSCL, equates to those entities not using it, or even being unaware of it, is ludicrous. Why the fuck would they admit to using such a source if admission of that usage might cause that source to dry up, and keeping their mouths shut makes it more likely to keep the information flowing?

Is TUSCL the only source of information? Of course not. Is it reasonable to assume that LE or management peruses it once in a while to see what might going on? Equally of course.

My take on who reads this site:

DANCERS-probably not many. I have only met one, and that was last week, who regularly reads TUCSL. I suspect most dancers either have no interest, don't want to pay, or don't want to take the time to write regulr reviews.

CLUB OWNERS/MANAGERS-probably not many, either. I say this based on the fact that if they did read it surely they would make some changes in their club. For example, almost every review of Platinum Plus in Columbia complains about the excessive noise level and the annoying use of two dollar bills. If they(owners) read all the negatives you would think they would make some of the small changes needed to make their customers happy.

LE-probably so. It is hard to imagine LE ignoring such a detailed analysis of activity at adult clubs in their jurisdiction. Even the reviews that are relatively tame are, by their very nature, informative. When a guy says he left a lap dance with a big smile on his face I think we (and LE) knows full well that he had a lot more than an air dance. That being said, the purpose of this site is to provide all of us TUSCLers with the information we need to make a decision on future club visits.So yes, they probably read it, but short of being too explicit there isn't a whole lot we can do about it. Just hope with the economy the way it is, LE will find better uses of their time than to concentrat on strip clubs.

snowtime, you don't have to pay to join tuscl to read what's being said here. i was contacted by a former dancer that joined a couple months ago. she has not posted anything here but her membership is still active. also even if you are not a member you can read everything written in discuss, articles, and blogs. that's what i was refering to when i said that there are more eyes reading this forum than just the guys that post here in my other post in this thread.

Maybe LE reads this site and maybe it doesn't. Either way, do you actually want to arm these guys with info? I'd rather them say "Shit -- I'm not getting any worthwhile info from TUSCL. Maybe I'll go solve some real crimes."

The discussions posted here can be read by anyone. Only the reviews after the first line or two are hidden from non members. I feel pretty confident the police look at all free leads they can get for any perceived illegal activity. Then they can launch an investigation or a raid. There is LE all over chat rooms and on the internet. I should know because in the more wild days of the net several years ago I was flirting with a deputy not far from where I live online. I did not give out my name, we were just flirting where you could talk via microphones for free online. If other LE was listening one day, they would have probably got a kick out of the deputy moaning like she was in ecstasy. We were playing around. I did not know who she really was either.

One club that I know of was raided within a week of posting online that one dancer did not ask if I wanted a dance, she asked if I wanted a BJ or sex because she didn't do dances. I thought it was a joke and based on her treatment of me afterwards, I think it was a ROB tactic to fool guys. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

Ask any dancer that danced for you if it's ok if you post details of your lap dance online along with her name and see how much she likes that. I believe they are paranoid about that. They are aware how much some guys exaggerate and lie.

You want your online name here and real name listed in a police report for the lead that led to a raid? I do believe investigations take place since it would be real easy to lie about a club or dancer just to get someone in trouble (revenge posting) or a club in trouble.

Just mention to a dancer that you review and post online about your experiences in the dance club and watch her act more paranoid than if you were LE.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just a habit of being paranoid. I still see everyone stopping for red lights late at night when there is no one around except me. I'm paranoid too. It could be 4AM without a soul in sight and I'm waiting at a red light to change. Should I run it? No, I wait. You never know when there might be someone hiding. It's a habit. There could be cameras too.

LeeH says: Posted: 08/19/10
Maybe LE reads this site and maybe it doesn't. Either way, do you actually want to arm these guys with info? I'd rather them say "Shit -- I'm not getting any worthwhile info from TUSCL. Maybe I'll go solve some real crimes."


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BINGO!

I was at a club recently and during the conversation with the dancer mentioned TUSCL and explained what it was all about. She asked me to give her a good review and mention her name and days she worked.

Ironic how most of the reviews for Deja Vu in Cincy claim they got air dances yet it was recently raided and got several citations.

TO LE: With state budgets across the country going down the tubes and safety personnel being laid off. Perhaps you should focus on crimefighting that helps the most people. Two people in a club sharing a lap dance is consensual. I'd be willing to pay a bit more in taxes if you focussed on more dangerous crimes like Jwalkers. Start citing the idiots who almost get killed every day walking out in front of my car. I swear that if I do hit a Jwalker, I'll probably beat his/her ass too for messing up the front end of my car!

TO CLUB OWNERS/MANAGEMENT:
Try lowering prices and see if business doesn't pick up. Peoples budgets are tighter right now and the decision on where to spend money has a lot to do with value. I can go have a couple of hours entertainment at an SC for $200. Or I can go see some pretty ladies at Hooters and have some good food and drinks for $40. Some of us actually want to have a conversation in the club. Turn down the music a little bit so our ears will stop bleeding!

TO DANCERS:
We customers are willing to spend money on you if you treat us nice. Quit trying to scam the money out of us and just give us some nice conversation and some good teasing. That will get the money out of my pocket faster than bitching about your money problems and then doing a lame air dance with the enthusiasum of a three toed sloth. Remember that some of us have to go back to work or home to SOs. Cut down on the smelly sparkley colorful crap and realize we can't really afford to go home smelling like what we've been doing with you.

One again, there's never been any evidence that a LE bust of a any strip club was directly related to anything that was posted on an anonymous website like TUSCL. That being said, it's generally never a good idea to post the names of any of the dancers that you interact with at a club on TUSCL. As founder sez:
"Everything written on this site should be considered a work of fiction."

and

"When describing the dancers mention looks, attitude, ethnicity, hustle factor. You can also go into detail of the private dances. Just be careful not to mention names."

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"Maybe you're right and that this whole 'interweb' thing is just too complicated for LE and club managers to figure out."

LOL...of course, no one here is saying that at all, noob. Keep bashing those strawmen though...you seem to love them so much...

----------------------

"I'm not saying LE used ONLY tuscl when making the raid, but it might have helped/encouraged them to do so"

...accept that there's exactly ZERO evidence to prove that. However, the article does say this:
"But elected officials certainly didn't need a consultant to tell them Memphis strip clubs are naughty. Local police reports and public-nuisance claims would have sufficed.

In the last 10 months, Memphis police made 15 arrests for prostitution and 34 for assault. Shelby County District Attorney Bill Gibbons has shut down six clubs temporarily in three years for prostitution, lewdness and illegal alcohol sales."

Once again, the club is question was on LE's radar screen without the use of TUSCL at all, period.

------------------

"my particular issue has to do with the fact that, in the NYC/CT clubs that I like, raids and other LE scrutiny are a fact of life"

...not because of TUSCL though.

"not absolute proof the the websites were a contributing factor, but highly coincidental at best"

...which proves, of course, absolutely, positively nothing, noob...just like always...
----------------------

"It is hard to imagine LE ignoring such a detailed analysis of activity at adult clubs in their jurisdiction"

...that could never be used in a court of law or to obtain a legal warrant for a search and/or investigation.

"When a guy says he left a lap dance with a big smile on his face I think we (and LE) knows full well that he had a lot more than an air dance."

Really?? Who's assuming now?? What does it take to make someone smile...a BJ, FS, a really good set of LDs, the waitress remembering his/her favorite drink, etc., etc.?? Please...

----------------------

"you don't have to pay to join tuscl to read what's being said here"

...but one does have to pay (or post an article or review) to read the strip club reviews.

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"You want your online name here and real name listed in a police report for the lead that led to a raid?"

Nope, but how are they going to get that?? It's extremely rare that I mention names in a strip club review. Heck, what's my name?? What's yours?? No offense, but I don't care! :)

---------------------

"Ironic how most of the reviews for Deja Vu in Cincy claim they got air dances yet it was recently raided and got several citations."

Exactly...lol...

Mister, there is equally no evidence to suggest, of all the LE agencies across the country, that NONE of them are using this information to advance their own goals.

Common sense (something you seriously fucking lack) dictates that, given the free availability of this information and common use of the Internet by LE, at least LE agencies are taking information from these sites.

In your own state of MA, LE routinely uses the Internet to snag would be johns and pros. So you are really suggesting that they use the web to catch other misdemeanor sex violations but ignore the SC sites?

"Mister, there is equally no evidence to suggest, of all the LE agencies across the country, that NONE of them are using this information to advance their own goals"

...because one generally can't prove a negative, noob.

"In your own state of MA"

I don't live in MA, noob.

"LE routinely uses the Internet to snag would be johns and pros"

...mostly by using CL, not TUSCL.

"So you are really suggesting that they use the web to catch other misdemeanor sex violations but ignore the SC sites?"

Nope, that's another strawman argument, noob. Keep 'em comin'...LOL!

Once again, there's never been ANY evidence that a LE bust of any strip club was directly related to anything that was posted on TUSCL, period.

I just submitted a review for the Columbia Platinum Plus. I failed to mention that a dancer pointed out to me, an off duty Columbia police officer. Surely he is not worried about what is written on TUSCL.

Mister, it is pointless dealing with you. You are the type of guy that needs his nose rubbed vigorously in a pile of shit before he is willing to acknowledge that it may indeed BE a pile of shit.

I don't mind a healthy debate on a matter, but your arguments are tortured (and torturous) and border on nonsensical. Straw man? Try "reasonable assumption based upon all available data", dipshit.

And noone can prove a negative? So you REALLY hold to the theory that, absent a specific quotation from LE attributing a bust to information obtained on tuscl, that it is as EQUALLY likely that NO LE agency looks at tuscl than it is that at least some do?

Even if you completely discount the coincidental raids discussed by myself and others, which, through your tortured logic could likely poo poo'ed as coincidental with a number of alternative theories, the (1) sheer availability of the information alone; and (2) LE's willingness to use the web for other LE activities; wouldn't lead you to the reasonable assumption that at least some are also reading and potentially using info. on SC sites?

Are you really that willfully obtuse? If so, I now understand how you come to support some of the political theories I have seen you rant about on this thing.

Ah yes, the old "I can't see it, so it doesn't exist" line of argument. Skepticism is healthy. Refusal to accept anything less than the impact upside one's head as evidence that two by fours might exist is folly.

very well said gmd.

I don't mean to become torturous myself with my own rants, but like I have said before, 6-7 years ago I started getting tired of seeing my favorite clubs raided after morons started posting explicit reviews on these sites.

It has now been a while since many of these clubs have been hit, and for some time after this was happened posters were much more cautious. With the elongated time lapse since the last heavy duty LE activity at the clubs in NYC/CT, posters are once again getting more explicit. These things usually happen in cycles in these parts (often timed with election campaigns) and, IMO, if this explicit info. continues to be posted then it is only a matter of time before LE decides to pick up a few headlines by coming down on the more liberal clubs.

To be fair, MG has never actually said, at least not in this thread (I make no claim about, or defense of, others) that LE has *not* used information from TUSCL in its investigations. What he has done however, is use his "no evidence" mantra as a club to attempt to beat into submission those of us who believe that the theoretical possibility, however unproven it may be, of LE usage of information here is enough to warrant caution. After all, that's all we're saying, use caution. Not naming dancer names is all well and good, but refraining from "I got a BJ at such-and-such club" is also a good candidate for self censorship.

I'm not sure what his purpose in doing that is, the only thing that comes to mind is some kind of dominance game on his part. It's certainly not the tactic of someone who actually wants to debate, and browbeating opponents has never been a particularly effective strategy for discovering the truth. Well, except when administered as part of properly implemented systematic torture, of course.

There's plenty of officers that go to platinum

I seriously doubt that in most jurisdictions this website is used by LE to determine if/when to raid a club. Rather, IMO LE uses raids to garner headlines for political reasons, and/or to clamp down on clubs that have other crime issues that affect the neighborhood. If you are having a lot of fights, shootings and disturbances than LE will single you out in a raid. Management gets the point and clamps down for a while until things go back to normal.

I will be attending a college frat reunion in a few weeks of which 2 of my old buddies, who were known to visit SC's and party/carouse in their youth will be attending. I will steeer a discussion to this topic to get their views. It s/b interesting as one is now a Chief of Police and the other a Judge.

To all,

No need to discuss FACTS with the village idiot. It always ignores them, IF they do not fit it's scenario. Also, it makes up "facts" to support what it says. Much easier to just "YAWN" when it types!

txt, I'd be interested to hear their answers either way and welcome the feedback.

I hear what you are saying and even agree that in some (not sure about most) jurisdictions LE doesn't get overly worked up about this sort of nonsense, but in many Northeast venues, including NYC, certain cities in CT, and much of MA (the state police chase sex crimes there) morality policing is alive and well. I have also run across this in Chicago and many midwestern cities, but have not seen as much of it first hand as I have in the NE.

My point is, in places where morality policing occurs, or even places where police would like to lean on lubs for other reasons, why make targeting process any easier.

"Straw man?"

Yup, read it & weep noob. You just *love* beating strawmen...now deal with it instead of trying to run away from it.

"And noone can prove a negative?"

Nope, that's yet another strawman argument from you. Here's what I *actually* said:
"one generally can't prove a negative, noob."

"So you REALLY hold to the theory that, absent a specific quotation from LE attributing a bust to information obtained on tuscl, that it is as EQUALLY likely that NO LE agency looks at tuscl than it is that at least some do?"

Ugh...I'm beginning to think that you have a problem with reading comprehension, noob. For your information (since you're still very new here), there have been at least a few members of TUSCL (including former frequent posters to this very discussion board) that were, in fact, members of LE. I've never said that LE has never read anything on TUSCL. What I've said, again is that there's never been ANY evidence that a LE bust of any strip club was directly related to anything that was posted on TUSCL, period.

"Even if you completely discount the coincidental raids discussed by myself and others"

...which, of course, one would have to to if one were thinking rationally, duh...

"Are you really that willfully obtuse?"

Nope, that's YOU noob...you can stop all the projection on your part as well BTW.

---------------------

"Refusal to accept anything less than the impact upside one's head as evidence that two by fours might exist is folly."

LOL...just keep those strawmen arguments right on comin' boys... ;)
--------------------

"I don't mean to become torturous myself with my own rants"

Too late noob.

"These things usually happen in cycles in these parts (often timed with election campaigns)"

Actually, you've managed to stumble onto the truth there noob! It's been noted here over & over again that LE tends to make knee-jerk reactions to adult entertainment venues when their political overlords are up for re-election.

----------------------------

"What he has done however, is use his 'no evidence' mantra as a club to attempt to beat into submission those of us who believe that the theoretical possibility, however unproven it may be, of LE usage of information here is enough to warrant caution"

...and that "club" works awfully well, especially on the naive and/or uninitiated. Look...if you guys want to live in fear of the unknown or unproven, then have at it...but all I ask is that you don't try & drag the rest of us down with you.

"Not naming dancer names is all well and good, but refraining from 'I got a BJ at such-and-such club' is also a good candidate for self censorship"

...in your own opinion. Again, please don't try & force your irrational fears onto others.

"It's certainly not the tactic of someone who actually wants to debate, and browbeating opponents has never been a particularly effective strategy for discovering the truth."

LOL...once again, this isn't about changing the minds of those that bend to irrational fear. It's about the dozens & dozens of people that read these boards & don't bother to chime in for whatever reason. TUSCL exists for the exchange of relevant & useful information about strip clubs, period.

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"I seriously doubt that in most jurisdictions this website is used by LE to determine if/when to raid a club. Rather, IMO LE uses raids to garner headlines for political reasons, and/or to clamp down on clubs that have other crime issues that affect the neighborhood. If you are having a lot of fights, shootings and disturbances than LE will single you out in a raid."

Exactly, and there's been plenty of direct evidence posted on this very board over the years to support that.
------------------------

"in many Northeast venues, including NYC, certain cities in CT, and much of MA (the state police chase sex crimes there) morality policing is alive and well."

LOL..."sex crimes" are a totally different issue than *maybe* someone getting a "happy ending" or a "smile on their face" at a strip club. Get a grip there noob.

Wishful thinking + probability avoidance - common sense = Mister's view of the world.

No more need be said, and it would be pointless anyway. In the meantime, I'll let Mister get on with posting other interesting theories, such as how higher taxes are good for us.

Sorry clubber and all for another round of this - I should know better by now but I guess am foolishly optimistic.

"such as how higher taxes are good for us."

For the rich? Whether it's "good" for them or not matters not to me...whether it's good for our nation's fiscal sanity is what matters to me, noob. However, I wouldn't expect you to understand that though, since you seem to have a hard time reading & understanding what others actually post here...ugh...

Where is the :banghead: emoticon on this site - lol

WOW! This discussion thread exploded from specifics of club reviews to U.S. taxation policy regarding the rich! Well, I am guilty of posting reviews that were too specific. I will not do that in the future. And, I am also guilty of being rich. But, I also have the incredible good luck of being Canadian, a nationality that is more gentle tax-wise on the rich than the U.S. Not so gentle on the average or upper income citizen, though.
Can we now get back to more interesting discussions tuscl-wise?

As per usual, MisterGuy telling everybody else what they can and can't post is right and proper, while anybody else even suggesting some subjects might be better left untreated are n00b troll behavior.

"As per usual, MisterGuy telling everybody else what they can and can't post is right and proper"

I'm sorry, but since when was *I* the one on here telling people what they can & can't post in a review?? Oh yea, it was never.

"...and that "club" works awfully well, especially on the naive and/or uninitiated. Look...if you guys want to live in fear of the unknown or unproven, then have at it...but all I ask is that you don't try & drag the rest of us down with you."

"Again, please don't try & force your irrational fears onto others."

Look dummy, it was *you two* that were primarily trying to get TISCL users to restrict what they post in their reviews, and I was asking the both of you to cut it out...because your fears were simply irrational. Like I've said before, if you both want to live in fear of the unknown or the totally unproven, then fine...but don't ask the rest of us to follow you along on that path to nowhere.

Sorry, that's obviously "TUSCL users"...

YAWN

Back on topic.Not sure if managers read the reviews but I know some dancers do. I went into my fav. club the other day to find some dancers at the bar reading a printout of one of their customers reviews. Both dancers in question were reading it. 1 he said was a waste of money and the other made him a happy man. To bad the day he was there was not busy so they knew who it was. He told the girls that he would be in the area for a while on business and would probably be back. I hope that I will be there on that day.