discussion comment
17 years ago
I strongly prefer less noise pollution. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
"Then I want him to apply the same analysis to the high cost of tuition."
Donald Trump, who I consider to be fairly shrewd, wrote the value of his Wharton (I think that's the name) business school degree had very little to do with the quality of teaching and in his opinion other business schools offered a better learning experience (as far as the classroom instruction) at a much lower cost. Wharton is an elite business school so how in the world could "lesser" business schools offer a better learning experience (as far as the classroom instruction) at a much lower price? For most people that is just beyond their comprehension. The elite school *has* to provide better education that is why their elite and charge so much!
Trump also added that although tutition for Wharton was extremely expensive and didn't really offer the best learning experience it was a freaking BARGAIN! Again, that is just beyond most people's comprehension. They'll often just close their ears at that point, which I believe is normal.
So why in the world was it a BARGAIN according to Trump? Well, he wrote or maybe said that 2 things really stood out in his mind about Wharton. 1. The quality of its students. Quality as measure by the student's family's wealth and quality in that generally the students were intelligent i.e. teachable and thinking. Why is the quality of students important to a prospective student or graduate? Reputation and future business contacts. He said those contacts with wealthy students gave him a lot of lucrative business once he graduated and they were out in the world together. 2. The prestige/reputation of Wharton business school. He said or wrote that, unfortunately many important people are more interested in prestige or reputation rather than actual substance i.e. knowledge and ability. He gave as an example of some bankers who he was working his tail off to get a loan from. He was showing them the business plan and the valuations and was getting nowhere. These bankers just seemed brain dead, but he kept pushing and pushing. BOOM! A break thru. One of the bankers wanted to know his education. That surprised him. We're talking about a multi-million dollar loan and you want to know my education? That's crazy. Everything is spelled out before you. Once it came out that he had a degree from Wharton the whole game changed suddenly,,, and the bankers thought he was the greatest. Wharton only graduates the best, in their opinion. Business plans? Whatever as long as we know your from an elite school then that's what's important.
Bottom Line (according to Trump): He wasn't paying big bucks for an education that was truly beside the point. It would have been stupid to pay BIG bucks to Wharton just to get an education when for a much lesser cost you can (in his opinion) get the same or better education at a much cheaper business school. Hanging with and making friends with the richy rich kids was of extreme value in that it opened doors! The reputation of Wharton was of extreme value in that it got him his multi-million dollar loan from the brain dead bankers, for exampl. The education wasn't anything special and was more like a commodity (in his opinion).
So that is just the first part of the story concerning high tuition rates. The education itself is often just a commodity that could be cheaply provided. What value for contacts/friends that can help you financially throughout your life? What value for being able to close a multi-million dollar business deal thanks to the reputation/prestige of Wharton? The expensive tuition is a BARGAIN! Just remember it isn't really the education that you're paying for. :)
Still interested? :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi Book Guy,
Well the market participants *may* not be well informed or educated or etc. Dances were $10 at Angels. Despite the other little clubs getting killed off and more customers wasting the dancers time very few customers were willing to part with $10. That is or was BIG money for the area especially for a single dance. I sure as heck wasn't willing to pay $10 unless the girl was going to spend the night with me! ;) Angels was in deep trouble because their "hidden" costs were skyrocketing while revenue was fairly stagnant. You couldn't clobber the dancers with more fees because $10 dances were hard to sell and it took real work usually on the dancer's part just to make a sale.
It looked like the government would be successful in killing Angels. You have raids which costs money. You taxes going up. You have inspections. And, where is the "fresh" money to pay for all of this garbage? The club was on its death bed. :(
The manager asked my opinion because he considered me to be a brain. And, he was also disappointed that I wouldn't buy dances. I advised him to lower prices to $5 per dance. He says NO, NO, the poor girls and they're really sweet are already starving. They can't take a pay cut because they're really hurting. I explained that if they could go thru the initial transition phase that the dancers would make MORE money at $5 a dance overall than they are by charging $10 a dance. He says that makes NO sense. You can't cut prices and make more money. You have to put yourself in the girls' shoes. You're supposed to be bright! He wasn't a happy camper, but he kept listening (which is impressive) and suddenly a light bulb went on in his head. $5 dances became the standard. Needless to say I wasn't a popular white "boy" with the dancers. :( One dancer was telling me about the "meeting" and she says one white says something and the whole world has to change. You're tearing this club apart with your insanity. She says I told 'em "white don't mean bright." Unfortunately, cause you're white you have them convinced that you're some type of brain. She says I don't buy it even a little bit. If you were black, then nobody would pay you any mind. I tried to explain to her and she says I don't want to hear it. She says I hope you are proud of yourself taking away what little money we were making. :(
So if the people in the business are hurting and they genuinely believe cutting prices will take away what little money they're making, then what are the chances they will cut their prices?
When I was under attack, I put my prices thru the roof. There wasn't a choice. The government made the choice for me and for the customers. They don't pay, then the bookstore closes. It was that simple.
So there are 2-main-ways-pricewise to try and save the day if income isn't were you need it to be. You can slash prices if volume will increase sufficiently and you have a good margin to work with. With Angels I was very confident many poor guys would love to get at least 1 $5 dance and after that who knows; thus I knew that I was advocating the correct course action to benefit everyone. Or, you can raise prices thru the roof and hope there enough price insensitive customers to result in an increase in overall profits.
IOWs, low demand sure as hell doesn't necessarily mean falling prices especially if there are enough price insensitive customers. I have buddies who think a $100 is a joke. Given their wealth, yes $100 shouldn't have much value to them. Heck, they might enjoy the experience more if they were paying $1,000.
Bottom Line: Don't expect that those in charge to necessarily understand that less can mean more. A wonderful example is tax rates. The government *may* collect much more in taxes at a tax rate of 15% than a at a tax rate of 75%. For most people, that is just beyond their comprehension. A higher tax must equal more $$$ for the government and a lower tax rate must equal less $$$ for the government. Thus, if someone advocates cutting taxes the cry may be heard that you have to "pay" for the tax cut since the government must lose revenue if tax rates are cut. Funny these same people who claim that a tax cut must equal less revenue for the government do often understand that a sale will often result in more overall profits for a business. Depending on how it is done a tax cut can be like a sale in that the government collects more revenue.
I hope that was somewhat clear. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
![]()
minnowAny place that interests me.
Oh and please guys don't be an f**ing moron and be complaining the price was too high! You agreed to her price *beforehand*, then NO it wasn't too high if she did what she said she would do.
discussion comment
17 years ago
![]()
minnowAny place that interests me.
The regular dancers who work day in and day out at the same club definitely think not only about repeat business, but fall out from not only management but their fellow dancers. It is a little surprising, but regular dancers generally really don't like ROBs at all because they rightfully believe the dirt will rub off on them and then they will have more trouble selling dances or have to deal with more pissy customers.
And, yes SuperDude you can complain to management even if you don't know him. You do it tactfully and when I do it getting a refund isn't the issue. I make that VERY clear that I don't want a refund and it really isn't about me getting ripped off. It is about protecting other customers and the club. Yes, it is about protecting the club. Believe it or not the club generally doesn't like ROBs----ok, there is one exception that I'm aware of. Secrets is a hardcore club that is totally different than Angels even though ownership is the same. Secrets is hardcore in that you can run into bad management and bad dancers and get taken for a pretty penny. Services not render isn't a real problem, however, it is an issue of fraud and extortion. Angels is very pro customer in contrast. You complain and very likely you'll get results and an apology.
And, it isn't about FS or being graphic about what exactly the dancer promised. It is the fact that you are an unhappy customer because she promised you the world and delivered sh*t. Remember, you aren't seeking a refund (although I have definitely been offered refunds--which I refused explaining that isn't the issue) it is about protecting the other customers and the club from a bad dancer.
discussion comment
17 years ago
the experience in civil matters. Or, the judge had a bad day. Anyway it is one mindless excuse or another.
Case law? That's a joke. The statutory law? That's a joke as well. The constitutional law? That's definitely a joke.
My rights? Well, it is probably according to most people better than in other countries. That might be true.
The Wall Street Journal years back did this big story about how wonderful the federal government was because it cracked down on some government crooks down here in South Florida. The story was very interesting, but not because the federal government was so wonderful about protecting people's rights from crooks that wasn't the interesting part. The interesting part was why the federal government decided to go after these government crooks. That was very interesting. See people had been complaining for over a decade (probably decades) about the government corruption. There wasn't anything that could be done thru normal channels by normal people. These government crooks were free to do whatever they wished.
So why did the federal government finally decide to take action? Protecting some little old lady? Or, perhaps coming to the rescue of a war veteran? Naw, Unisys (sp?) was facing normal government extortion and they ***complained as many others before them had done***. The difference was Unisys had the right ties; the "top" man at Unisys was good friends with the "top" man at the federal government. Friendship between two "top" men got a few government crooks doing prison time. The corruption is still there. And, the "wonderful" federal government may again take action in 30 or 40 years. But, generally the government crooks are safe and sound.
The point of all this rambling besides stress relief is that all this corruption does help determine "value" in the "free" market. Even without the government meddling or corruption, it seems dubious to equate "market value" with real value. That is a logics problem, imo. :) And, an interesting one if you like economics, which I do. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Another example of the "free" market at work: Here in Miami-Dade County there are code enforcement liens sometimes totaling hundreds of thousands of dollars---including penalties and interest. So I see a propery worth approximately $200,000 that can be acquired for around $40,000 cash. Total code enforcement liens are about $150,000. Doesn't look like much value there does it? The $40,000 cash plus the $150,000 in code enforcement liens almost equals the market value of the property. Well, code enforcement liens can be negotiated downward depending on who you are . . . so I ask what type of reduction I could receive and was told that the liens would be reduced to $100,000 (some people can't even get that good an offer). I complained that the fair reduction would be to $20,000 and that this wasn't "fair" as Ms. M told me she is free to do whatever she wants. She says you're an educated man you are going to trust the courts? I don't think so.
Anyway, I kept track of the property. It was purchased for $40,000 cash and the code enforcement liens were reduced to about $15,000. Remember I had offered to pay $20,000 just as a starting offer and it was rejected. Like Ms. M says she can do whatever she wants because she doesn't think the courts will do anything and besides it is way to expensive to try. The wonderful "free" market at work, yet again. If I could find some honest judges, then there is definitely money to be made. When I say honest. I mean you go to 3 or 4 attorneys who are experts in that area of law. Each independently gives you essentially the same legal advice that the law gives you these rights. And, what will the honest judge do? Well, I like to think he would agree with the experts especially when it is fairly clear cut. It doesn't work that way. The excuses are that oh the judge is from the criminal division and he doesn't have
the bell tolls again
discussion comment
17 years ago
Burke Mills. The asset value (comprised mainly of real estate) after liabilities was supposedly conservatively worth $15 dollars a share, the trading value assuming you could get someone dumb enough to buy it was 50 cents a share. Like this old wealthy successful investor told Lieba Geft (sp?) on FNN the asset value of a company is totally meaningless. She was stunned and didn't believe it. He explained there had to be a reasonable way of extracting the "value" and he wouldn't trust the courts and it had turned (thanks to changes in law) into a very difficult problem to extract the value for investors. Then he gave some extreme examples where if you could force a sale of assets then current share prices were just pennies on the dollar for many companies.
Just showing a typical problem of relying on the "free" market to determine "value." I would also take with a grain of salt that the stock market is a wonderful deal . . . it may be . . . but sometimes the media isn't completely honest.
discussion comment
17 years ago
"To many of these dancers 200 dollars a shift (probably mostly tax free) is crap and they don't want to "bust ass for such a lowly amount. That would in fact would be dream wages for a Walmart worker and many other typical service jobs, and how many Walmart workers are spending 1/2 the shift boozing and socializing."
Well, too many nice girls don't even last a week. They'd rather work at Walmart. :( For some girls it really is a rough job. Either the sex part is more than they bargained for or the customers are too abusive. For other dancers it is a party and they handle themselves very well. Still others fall somewhere in between. The point being when you have women who try it and then leave the "easy" money for Walmart type wages, then maybe it isn't so "easy" depending on your makeup. Some guys think roofing is "easy" while others can't last a day or two in the heat. Some guys think being a crook is "easy" while others can't accept ripping people off.
As a guy getting groped for money by ugly old women for excellent, imo, pay wouldn't be bad at all because I'm a money grubber and contact doesn't bother me. Kissing? That is definitely not appealing when we talking ugly and old. Extras? Maybe, but it doesn't sound like fun.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi Fondl,
That is nice and understandable. I had a dancer who was very into good tasting health food. It was fun even though I'm more a cheap junk food eater. She especially liked that I could follow what she was talking about as far as nutrition and how important it was to have tasty healthy food. Looking at her I never would have guessed she was so into food. She credited it for keeping her slim and upbeat. She had some skill as a cook, too. :) But, really a little too advanced for me--too intimidating. :) She didn't stay in the business long . . .
discussion comment
17 years ago
A girly-girl. But, the little lesbian girls that dress up like they're guys are totally adorable. It is sort of surprising in that they trying some guy behaviours and yet they're really very female. They're just too soft no matter how tough they try and act. And, watching them interact with their girlfriends is also a treat because generally they a lot less clumsy and a lot more calm than a young guy would be and of course they're a hell of a lot more attractive. :) I like slow and these girls on their own seem to take it as a snails pace. :)
I think most guys probably wouldn't care for that . . .
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi Fondl,
You like those innocent sweet dancers? Well, I do also. If she is doing a mass number of dances then generally she will start losing that appeal as the business grinds her down. Yes, some girls don't get ground down, but I think that is the exception.
So yes, there is a depreciation/loss, imo, when dances are sold generally speaking. The dancers in general who I've gotten closest to are those I met when they were first starting. Also, those who don't seek dances and are shy even after being in the business a while are good bets--for me. Other customer probably don't give a damn except will she spread her legs or do extras--like now!
As I said there are always exceptions. But, I think if I was doing dances for old ladies the volume would definitely start to wear on me. I think I'd rather make less money and do fewer dances. Of course, I feel the same way about most work nowadays because I have a bad attitude toward work. I used to believe in hard honest work. Now, I think pretty much everything is a scam and fraud. :(
discussion comment
17 years ago
"What gives? Some sectors of the economy are free to skyrocket independent of surrounding economic context? I'd appreciate an explanation. In fact, you could forgo the dang explanation and just give me a remedy, to get my lapper prices back down where I want them to be, but I'm willing to bet you don't have access to THAT kind of economic information. :)"
Sure I do. It's called competition. When the little strip clubs along W. Dixie Hwy, were attacked by the government one by one the variety and options dwindled big time. Before the government made its usual mess of things there was a lot of choice and a lot of prices. And, the dancer fees that the clubs could charge were rock bottom cause there were so many clubs. Now the dancers are getting financially raped because the options are a lot fewer so the clubs take a F you attitude with the dancers. Allow new small clubs to be opened the game changes real quick. :)
I still remember the pea brains at The Trap who didn't think their fun club would change do to the government attacks on W. Dixie Hwy. That has nothing to do with us, they yelped! What type of blanking idiocy is that? Where did they think those strip club customers were going to go? Unfortunately, they ended up at The Trap and that isn't a fun club, anymore. And the girls went from hot to dogs. And, the prices went thru the roof. What a mess. :( And it is a club that will die and then another won't be allowed to open.
If Tootsies becomes my only real choice, then screw it and the strip club scene.
discussion comment
17 years ago
is that while she is wasting a bunch of time doing $5 dances she could be catering to a gentleman who thinks $25 a dance or $500 for conversation is cheap.
That country bumpkin from Nebraska didn't think dropping $400 just for the dancer at Secrets was a big deal at all. He thought it was very reasonable and planned (was eager) on coming back. Now, if the dancer had been wasting time with me at $5 a dance then she would have missed out on a man who can really afford to treat her well. Even better is the bumpkin is a nicer person than I am, and better looking, and younger! :) She especially liked that he was very happy with everything she was doing---he was a freaking smiler. OK, at least I win a round against Mr. Richie Rich Country Bumpkin. You won't catch me smiling left right and center. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi FONDL,
The store has moved and is now called Trader Johns its on Hollywood Blvd near Young's Circle. I believe John is still running the show even though it was been many many years since he took over. He is a great guy in that he really cares about helping people who are down and out. It just amazed me how he would spend time and money helping people who really weren't that wonderful and had too many problems. A very special person. :) The reason that I think he is still business is that I spoke with a customer from the old days about a week ago and he was telling me John was still busy trying to improve people's lives. I would have thought he'd have learned his lesson after all these years and all the assholes he dealt with. Another pro-government man, btw. :)
Oh yes, John D. MacDonald. I did have an excellent selection of his books but that was years ago. John isn't much in the way of running an organized shop and I don't think he has much interest in profits.
There wasn't a shortage of books. People kept donating them to me. In fact, I have a garage filled with "garbage" books. I say "garbage" because I don't have the strength to sell them and yet I can't let them go because my poverty background is seared into my mind. The waste not want not.
I think girls do run out of lap dances, btw. At least some do. :) It is draining, imo, for most girls. And, another problem with the theory she has more to sell is
the bell rings. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
BTW, the price increase from 10 cents per book average to $3 per book average wasn't a random choice. The sales curve is sort or interesting in that it forces a dramatic price increase rather than a more reasonable increase. Some people have the mistaken notion that if government increase your costs by a mere 10 percent, then all you need do is raise your prices a mere 10 percent and everybody is a happy camper. :) It doesn't work that in all markets. Sometimes a 10 percent government mandate will force prices to rise a few hundred percent in order for the business to survive. It is really a question of working the numbers and it some cases the business can't pass along the extra costs to consumers--sometimes the owner or employees of the business get to eat it. All of this takes a lot of thinking, but it is very interesting--at least to me. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
An even better example of government helping to determine value. I'm only aware of the details thru The Wall Street Journal complaints about President Clinton's tough handling of the banks. Essentially, President Clinton allegedly told the banks no more "red lining" the black areas or the banks would lose their special government perks and may even face government attacks. Good job, President Clinton! Let the banks earn their welfare for a change. :)
Anyway, once loans became available in the black areas---surprise, surprise---the land and housing values in those areas increased dramatically. Nothing like bank loan availibility to help sell a home. :) So was the market determining value or again was it more the force of government--that is just one way the government gets its nose into the housing market, btw . . .
Where I live the insurance companies were openly red lining the area as far how much they charged for insurance. Surprise, surprise, the insurance companies charge more in black areas than in white areas. If it was a free market, then I wouldn't mind how they set their rates and think they should be free to discriminate to their pretty little heart's content. For better or worse, there are all manner of government tentacles in the insurance business and as such the government needs to dictate whatever the government desires! :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
"Like everything else, the market place determines it's value."
Well, I'm not sure about that. If the government mandates the purchase a certain number of lap dances per year for every adult, then is it truly the market determining value or is it the force of government.
Another example, the government says you can only sell gasoline for the "fair" price of $1.50 per gallon. Is the market place determining value or is the force of government? Here in Florida it is against the law to sell gasoline too cheaply (Walmart tried hard to change this law, btw.)---Again, is the market place determining the value or is the force of government? Another example, is the market really determining the price of marijuana or concaine or even alcohol? Or, is it more determined by the force of government?
Screw the stinking "free market" and let's just adopt communism. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
The "Uncle Bones" mentality may kill the rest of the small clubs. "Uncle Bones" probably can't comprehend that there are fixed costs that have to be paid and cutting dance prices may not be an option. I don't know it might be option. You really need to look behind the scenes and see what is happening. Otherwise the idea that lap dance prices will magically fall just because many customers are getting poorer doesn't make any sense at all. The government successfully put down a bunch of small clubs here in Miami. Angels did cut prices years back and it did increase volume drastically (and the other clubs being shut down helped too), but I have a feeling that the fixed and semi-fixed costs for Angels are set to soar ever higher. At that point cutting dance prices is counter productive and prices may have to increase radically. If it goes under, then so what? It just died a few years later than all the other little clubs along W. Dixie Hwy. The government once again will have been successful. Hail the so called "free market." LOL!
discussion comment
17 years ago
The government doesn't impose high costs on strip clubs? The government doesn't limit new competition and try and close small clubs? News to me.
Is demand falling or is income becoming more stratified between the haves and have nots? Perhaps prices need to rise much more sharply like what happened with the used book store. You have posted that the quality of life is improving income wise. And, that is true in some areas. In other areas like insurance, health care, education, taxes, legal fees, corruption, debt and the ability to get a fresh start, regulations, mandates, etc. things aren't so rosy, imo. I think there are more customers who can afford to pay more, but many who need a much cheaper form of entertainment such as watching TV---iows even if you slashed the prices to the bone these customers can basically afford to watch TV. It makes NO sense to try and cater to them. Stripclubs can't "afford" these low income customers thanks to government, imo.
Was demand for used books decreased? I'm not sure. The price did go from 10 cents per book average to $3 per book average (overnight, btw), but it didn't make any difference really what the demand was. Fix costs were set to rise drastically so if drastic price increases killed demand so what? The customer demand had zero to do with the radical price increase. Government mandates and taxes had everthing to do with the price increase. So the store swims or sinks with the new prices, but customer demand one way or the other had nothing to do with whether the price would increase or decrease. The government rules and that is that. :)
There were definitely many complaints from the "poor" customers . . . so what are they going to pay the "hidden" fixed costs that were soaring? Nope, they needed to hang out at the library or stop reading books or whatever. They weren't any benefit to the book store under the new framework laid out by the governments. And, if higher income customers wouldn't or couldn't increase spending dramatically for the same product or less then the book store goes under. Big fucking deal. May be some government job would have been available at higher compensation. As it turned out, the higher income customers paid a lot more for the same product or a lot more for lesser products. :) I guess the owner of the store should thank the two bit government? I mean he did make more money and that is what life is all about, right?
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi MIDancer,
Yes, I didn't get the impression that you were giving that type of dance. Maybe, I'm looking in the wrong places or demanding too much in the way of what I find to be smoking hot, but the dancers who will or can provide that type of heat aren't too common, ime. I've heard more than a few times, if you're concerned about how I feel than why are you paying? As if, it should of course be free if the man is willing to try and please the woman----that way of thinking always seemed "crazy" to me. The woman because of her looks has the extreme value . . . me trying to get her hot doesn't, imo, seem to have any value and might even be considered *negative* to many dancers.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi MIDancer,
I didn't think you implied that. To my knowledge it is an up and down business. One day the money could be rolling in and the next it could be slim pickings.
As far as the HUNDREDS of dollars an hour I just don't see anything wrong with that (I can't afford it, btw). At the upper end some escorts that I knew thru an escort who was just a friend were charging thousands for full service. Looking at them it was easy to believe. I don't think they were earnig thousands every day, but when they worked they charged! I sure as hell couldn't afford anywhere near their rates and sex or no sex didn't make a difference to them---it was about time is money. So I could have paid THOUSANDS to sit and chat about the weather or paid THOUSANDS to have hot sex. To *them* it just didn't make a difference. There wasn't a sliding scale based on the type of service. Other escorts have a menu with different prices--who knows maybe conversation is even on the menu. :)
And, generally for most dancers I don't think it is easy money. For some it truly is easy money. Like the old beat up prositute who helped me find the perfect women. She thought the business was heaven. A very upbeat person except that she really didn't seem to like females. Here many of her fellow sex workers were complain complain complain and she is like are you crazy? I want sex AND money AND drugs. These men are too good to be true. She wanted to service, for free if necessary, any men that I knew that might be interested in some no strings fun with her. (She offered me also, but knew I had NO interest is sex or play with her.)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi MIDancer,
As I've stated before it is surprising how some dancers are able to remain genuinely nice after taking super amounts of abuse. That includes being ripped off. Generally, I don't like the dancer taking a break because I'm trying to get her hot or at least have her fake it i.e. increased heart rate, dilated pupils, etc. Taking a break, ime, the woman cools down fast. But, different customers have different needs. Like the customers who need just conversation. I think that is "crazy," but then many customers as well as dancers consider my need for the GFE to be "crazy." Or, my need for very fine looks is seen as "crazy." More than a few dancers and women have lectured me that beauty is only skin deep or irrelevant. And??? It is the looks that get me excited especially in combination with skill and personality. It is like heaven, but it is fairly rare and usually the dancer is off to somewhere else anyway. :( Without the right look, there is really nothing even if the dancer is a winner in every other area. Looks are No. 1 for me.
I will say that for many customers at least around here the upfront payment can be seen as a warning sign of big trouble. The thinking is if you give a good dance, then why wouldn't I want to pay you? The customer doesn't realize that yes dancers do get scammed and also too often customers do have negative experiences paying first. If more women were attractive to me, then I probably wouldn't pay upfront because I'd figure the next dancer in line is just as good.
I also consider "abuse" to be irrationality on the part of the customer. For example, customer says I spent $1,000 on dancer and she still doesn't love me! What an evil bitch! My god, dealing with dummies like that would make me sick to my stomach. And, some dancers who do give excellent GFE are afraid to do so because of some irrational pea brain falling in love. Another "abuse" is the customer who goes off the deep ending yapping about ROBs merely because the dancer requires compensation greater than he is willing or can afford to pay. A real ROB promises and doesn't deliver or she overcounts or she lies about the dance prices or etc.
BTW, I have been in the unfortunate position that the dancer is out of my budget. Usually, I just feel very depressed. Who knows maybe if I was a different mentality or culture, then I would also go off the deep end yapping about ROBs merely because I couldn't afford or didn't like the dancer's prices.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi David9999,
There's an old saying something like "You're screwed if you turn to the right, you're screwed if you turn to the left, you're screwed if you go straight ahead, you're just plain screwed. :( " If the economy crashes hard enough, then it wont make much difference if the pussy is a $1 a pop. And, sometimes you can't see the "hidden" fixed/semi-fixed costs like taxes and payoffs and electric and etc. that basically create a make or break situation. Clubs do close. Over at Angels a dancer fee just to work part of the night shift was $160 and this is for a $5 club. That is a hell of a lot of dances before the poor girl even breaks even-- assuming asshole customers pay her for the dances agreed to. But, who knows what pressure the club is under from the government--that $160 might be needed for all manner of payoffs---police, legal, taxes, mandated insurance (yes, it is a racket--imo. :) ), permits, licenses, etc.
Sundays were usually dead around here in Miami and in fact many clubs didn't open at all.
Yes, I know I'm rambling a little or a lot. :) And, I've also given up to a large extent. A buddy is super pro-America and pro-democracy. He is actually fairly sharp and financially comfortable. He has this mantra that the only thing necessary for "evil" to prevail is for good men to stand by and do nothing. I don't believe that even a little bit. :) In fact, I think the "good" men who are active cause much of the "evil." I gave President Bush as example that many people consider him to be a "good" man and he actively promoting his concept of "good." My buddy has convinced himself that President Bush isn't acting of his own free will because nobody could be that "evil" or "stupid" and President Bush is a good man that is the victim of some powerful hidden force. It would be funny and I'd just dismiss it, but the man is fairly sharp and his heart is in the right place and he does try to improve the system that he loves so much. Anyway, the twisted reasoning which I see again and again everywhere basically just says to me forget reason and logic. :)
Anyway, it was nice seeing some interesting posts that caused me to think and think some more. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
BTW, I *assume* shadowcat feels any statements by a dancer that she can earn hundreds per hour is seen by him as SS to inflate their own self-worth if nothing else.