Dancer's influence on you

My ATF's positive influences on me are way too numerous to list here. I'm not sure I'd even be alive today if not for her. I'll just list two examples - my positive outlook on life is entirely due to her. And I've not had a bout of depression, which was always a big problem for me, since we met.

My ATF also has had an effect on me, although not quite as profound as that mentioned above by FONDL. At the very least, she has me eating a bit healthier. She convinced me to get the leanest ground beef I can find--92%-95% lean--for hamburgers and got me to switch from rye to whole wheat bread. Fewer carbs, more fiber. She's slowly working toward a nursing degree, and I value her advice--although certainly she is no substitute for my physician on major issues.

Ever since I've been clubbing on a regular basis (2006 to present), I've been constantly on an exercise/workout program to stay fit. Even started artificial tanning this spring. Regular deep-tissue/muscle massages has had an impact on my conditioning.

Although I do get the normal amount of SS from dancers, I am convinced that my overall appearance now has some effect on some dancers. Besides, I feel much more alive and energetic nowadays. So, yes, I suppose you could say that dancers, in general, do influence me to keep healthy and in shape.

Have always kept in shape so no effect there.

After returning to strip clubs this past year (after a 20 yr absence from what really was very limited visits in that era)with the 3 to 5 ATF types I've met this year, there have been certain dancer effects combined with effects from the overall experience

1. newer hip hop/pop music- what I've found is certain of the songs are in fact quite good, and its simply a matter of giving it a chance

2. better understanding of the complex nature of the strip club world, (w/o the standardized and predictable media bias), along with the entire ATF phenomenom which I never previously understood. I also find the interaction between dancers and customers quite fascinating, and undertanding the basic business model (including the need for SS) makes everything much more interesting

3. the realization that strippers are not just abused women, junkies, or exhibitionists, which was my impression a few decades back, in part due to biased media reports and my (very) limited visits to big city strip clubs

4. recognition that a signficant amount of strippers are pretty much regular people in a very odd profession

Bones, tell us more about those "deep tissue" massages, what tissues are you referring to (lol)?

Seriously, I think the greatest impact my ATF has had on me is that I used to look down on people like her from her kind of background, thinking I was better than them. Now I realize I'm just luckier than them. And that realization has changed everything - the world looks very different to me now than it used to.

Fondl, as a former GAD victim (took me five years of non-stop search), I know what are you talking about, though I overcame my challenge before I met my ATF. - Congratz!

Bones - ditto, gotta go back to tanning salon though and God help me to keep my six pack visible over the holidays, LOL

David, if you would be willing to elaborate on point #2 (email me?), I'd appreciate it. I am still try to figure that one out...

Numnutz, you ATF being a nurse thing sounds HOT! :)

One fav is affecting my career planning.

Point #2 was a reference to the complexity of the dancer/customer relationship.

Dancers are on the job, and customers are there for fun - that's the most basic equation the customer has to constantly remind oneself when interacting with an ATF type.

Strippers are in a very odd profession, because while they are paid to dance, to flirt, to converse and so forth - they can also be paid (especially with regulars and as ATFs) to be actresses in a sometimes very elaborate and extended fantasy.

Compare this to a waitress who while she wants to curry favor with the customer and who works for a tip, she's not going to be pretending to have romantic interests in a customer. She's nice simply to the degree necessary to provide good service, with nothing much else involved.

When both the customer and the dancer understand the nature of "the dance",(as someone put it), in other words the dancer's need for steady income and the customer's need for an elaborate fantasy - then there is not much dishonesty about it at all, because both parties understand (or should understand) exactly what is occuring.

Apparently

(continued)

Apparently because dancer incomes appear to taking a hit, the types of techniques dancers are now using does seem to be getting a bit more extreme, sometimes to lock-in a big spending regular. These techniques can sometimes in my opinion overstep the bounds a bit. For example telling a customer they are "in love" with them would be a possible example of a type of super stripper sh.t I mentioned a few weeks back. However, I don't believe it necessarily s/b a deal killer in the customer/ATF relationship if both parties are basically decent people and are both enjoying what each party presents to the other.

David, thanks for your reply.

In my profession, it is my job to educate the customer about the products and services my company has to offer, thus, managing the customer's expectation. In your opinion, does a dancer has any level of responsibility to her customer in that regard?

It seems that for every mistake a cutomers can make (jealousy, falling in love, etc) it is always a customer's fault. I was told by a dancer that everyone (customers) has to find out "how it works" on its own.

David, when she quit dancing my ATF became a waitress in a popular sports bar. She used to refer to it as "flirting for a living." I once asked her on a very cold day in January why she was wearing short shorts at work - she replied that she got more tips that way. The two jobs - waitressing and stripping - have more similarities than you might think.

Professor, I don't know what GAD means that's a new on on me. If you mean SAD (which I've always called my winter blues, I lke that name better), I've suffered from that all my life, and it got steadily worse as I got older - it's why I take my vacation in the winter and go south where the days are longer. Then one spring it didn't go away and stayed with me for over a year until I met my ATF. She also suffers from depression, which is probably what first brought us together. We've helped each other get better and we both know it.

There were these 2 heart pounding dancers. Average intelligence. Very poorly educated. From a poverty background. Very happy individuals.

I watched some of the abuse these dancers took and they were just incredible. It is one thing to take abuse and it quite another to remain very kind and sweet and caring. It was funny that they had so little and yet would be the first to take the shirt off their back if you needed help. Desperate to be moms even without babies; I guess. One of them wanted me to father a child after I had known her about 6 months. She offered to go my doctor to prove she wasn't already pregnant. She just wanted to be a mom because her mom had died young and she missed the close relationship. She use to tell me how wonderful and loving and wise her mom was. The other dancer would also tell me what a wonderful family she had and how they made all the difference. She was desperate to get pregnant also, but she thought it was real crazy to do so without a father willing to help at least a little bit.

It sounded like the biggest regret that they had was their lack of education. The one dancer had broke down in tears and took off running when I gave her some good books. I didn't really know what to think about that except that women are generally insane. With eyes downcast and halted speech she later explained what the problem was. The way she was carrying on I thought it some life or death issue. Turned out she couldn't read at all and was embarrassed and was afraid I would look down on her. I offered to teach her to read, but she said she was too stupid or she would have already learned. I pointed out that reading difficulty didn't mean a person was dumb. Anyway, she promised to seek help from some leads that I was going to get her. The main thing is she didn't want me see how much difficulty she had learning. She wanted me to continue liking her. Both of those dancers were really top quality people, imo. I doubt either was successful because they just didn't have the right road map.

The one dancer told me her secret that she learned from her grandmother was that when someone is being mean imagine you are that person. It doesn't feel good to be that person and it is much better to be nice and try and help people instead of being mean. She also said you just don't know what problems a person has to make them like that. She hoped that if she continued being nice that the person might realize she isn't bad at all and maybe they could be come friends. Yes, these dancers were truly wacked out 100%, but they just impressed the hell out me anyway. I told one of them that no way would I have the strength not to explode and try and get even. She laughed and said it doesn't take any strength at all being nice and that it makes you feel good. Not only wacked out maybe they need to be incarcerated for their own well being? :)

FONDL - LOL. Still persuing the (lower) abdominal region with her. She's touched, squeezed, pulled, just about every muscle on my body, except the MOST desired ONE! Not rushing it, but feel confident the intimacy will appear. And, good for you FONDL. Your ATF has really brought you around and in a good way. Yes, not all of us are fortunate than others, however, I've come to respect just about everybody. Good job ATF!!!

Professor906090 - Keep working at it, it'll pay off in the long run. As far as 6 packs, LOL, I'm kind of slender in nature, so I'm only working to retain my 4 pack. Although my workout schedule is 4 on & 2 off, I do the abs 7 days a week. Only takes 5 to 10 minutes out of my schedule.

Speaking of... this seemed funny to me, I was at The Exotic Pearl last night (no review). One of my FAVs, Octavia (7.5) (great milage) came to the bar and grabbed my hand and took me over to meet her (bi) girlfriend, also a dancer. My FAV lifts my shirt up and starts stroking my abs and says... "look at these Zin!". Unfortunately, she wouldn't stroke any lower.....'in the club area'! :-)

David9999 - Uh, um, yeah, I totally agree..... I think.

Bones, does she know that you enjoy going to strip clubs? If you can come up with an amusing way to introduce that topic, that conversation could be a way to where you want to go (she might even like to go with you some time.) You might also say something to the effect that you'd love to get a massage where you and the therapist are both nude, in a very dark room lit only by a few candles, and not by just anyone, it would have to be a therapist who you knew well and were very comfortable with. That's my fantasy with my ATF but I doubt if it will ever happen, she'd probably hit me if I suggested it. Sounds like you'll get there long before I will. You lucky dog.

BTW, I'm very envious of you guys who claim to have visible six-packs. I'm pretty fit but I still have enough blubber in my midsection that my ABS don't show. I'd have to give up wine to accomplish that. Fat chance (no pun intended.)

I've got you all beat... My abs don't resemble a 4-pack or a 6-pack ... it's a KEG, baby!

(I AM working on it, though)

And in case anyone cares, cardio is just as important as crunches in having a visible 6-pack. You can do stomach exercises till hell freezes over but they'll never show unless you get your body fat content low enough the there's littl fat around your midsection. And cardio, along with proper diet, is about the only thing that will ever get your body fat that low. Building muscle also helps because muscle burns much more calories than fat, even when you are at rest. (Alcohol increases belly fat.) I learned this stuff from my ATF, she's a health and fitness nut.

Fondl, MEGA DITTOS.

FONDL - Oh yeah, she knows I frequent strip clubs! She knew of the convention I went on to Columbia and wanted to hear all about it. Did she ever get an ear full! During last week's visit, I mentioned about bringing in a bottle of my favorite Reisling wine, a couple of glasses, and having a late evening two hour session. She lite up like a Christmas tree and was all for it. Currently in Memphis, due to return last week of the month. Got the wine and glasses ready! Oh, BTW, I forgot to mention to you that she was a stripper for awhile, but not long. Shoot me an email and I'll send you her pic! I keep mentioning to her that I never want to offend her in any way, by my sexual prowness of her. She said, I could never offend her and that I was her MOST favorite customer, so maybe that's an open window to venture into.

As far as the abs thing, I have always had a very high metabolism rate, thus have remained slender all my life. I get plenty of cardio using my Dad's stationary bike and through my 'resistance' workouts. Women really go for tight abs, even if the "packs" don't show.

Recommendation from Uncle Bones: Keep working at it, you'll not only feel the difference, people will see and tell you the difference.

I remember my first ATF encouraged me to try out contacts when I suggested I was thinking about trying them out. Actually I liked them a lot better than glasses the second time I tried them. It was getting annoying to me when I first went to strip clubs and dancers would keep taking my glasses off and rub them between their tits. I think one girl called me hot without my glasses around that time so I got encouraged more. My past favorite who I think I saw more OTC than inside because she liked spending time with me, made me want to get in better shape. Mainly because she was getting me tired but in a good way. Even though she was getting me tired, I thought I must be doing something right for her to what to spend so much time with me. Other non strip club influences have changed me even more though. I am getting in better shape now. Unless the holidays set me back.

Started experiments w. drugs. Strippers + drugs + alcohol = good times!

Bones, I can't send you an email, I don't have access to your address. If you can't get mine, ask Shadowcat, he has it. Or maybe Shadowcat can send me yours.

Speaking of exercising, I'm down to that last "vanity" 10 pounds that I want to lose. (Maybe it's 20.) I don't find that anything budges it. Am I doing something wrong?

BG - Go more higher protein diet, lay off the carbs and saturated fats. Locate the excess pounds. Find exercises good for that area where the muscles are located and turn the excess fat into muscle. Pretty simple, but you have to be determined and disciplined. Good luck.

FONDL - It should be visible to everyone on the website. In case it isn't: mailto:[email protected]

They make me HORNY!!!

Book Guy, in order to lose that last 10 pounds it helps to change your eating habits to 6 small meals a day instead of the normal 3 big ones. And I agree with Bones that you need to eat more protein and fewer carbs, especially simple carbs like white bread and pasta. But I disagree with his other advice, there are no exercises that target fat loss in specific areas of the body, it doesn't work like that. Do more cardio especially intervals (eg. instead of running at a moderate steady pace for 30 minutes, alternate sprints with slow jogs in between), and lift heavy focusing on your largest muscle groups (legs, back). And do mostly compound exercises like squats and dead lifts with free weights. And drink lots of milk (calcium helps you lose fat) but little or no alcohol.

Bones, I will send you an email. Just be aware that it will come from Cosgrove C. Cosgrove, who is the executive director of Friends of Naked Dancing Ladies (FONDL).

FONDL has a point on turning fat into muscle, to a point. Most fatty tissue needs to be lost via diet. However, good constant muscle toning (not body building) will enlarge the muscle mass in each area of the body. You need to take a couple days break from the body toning to allow the muscles to repair (suggest creatine to speed the process). At the end of your 'layoff' cycle and at the beginning of your workout cycle, your muscles shouldn't be sore, and will start the building process again. Yes, eating more smaller meals and less larger meals is a great idea. Your digestive system is constantly working. It's important to also remember when using solid weights, to properly pick them up and set them down keeping your back straight. DO NOT leave out back exercises, very very important!

FONDL - Will be awaiting your email.

Bones, you probably didn't mean it literally but it's impossible to turn fat into muscle or vice versa. You have fat cells and muscle cells, and each can get bigger or smaller but neither will ever turn into the other. Once you reach adulthood your number of fat cells always remains the same and in the same place, they just get bigger or smaller. And they do that according to a set pattern depending on your body type - for men the fat cells in the midsection are usually the first to get bigger and the last to shrink, and there's nothing you can do about that. For women it's usually butt and thighs. Muscle is different - you damage it by exercising, then it rebuilds during rest. So you are actually building bigger muscles when you are at rest, not while exercising. And they need protein to rebuild. An excellent book called "Younger Next Year" explains this stuff in easy-to-understand language. "You the Owner's Manual" does much the same thing. Both are excellent.

bones, fondl, i'm way ahead of you, all that is already incorporated into my regimens.

no alcohol? boooo ...

Alcohol (in the form of wine) is indeed my problem too. I have some excess belly fat as a direct result. But man cannot live on bread alone. Hence no washboard ABS for me. Life is full of compromises.

You guys are talking about getting in shape in order to impress your ATF? Does anybody really believe it makes any difference to her? I always thought one of the best things about strip clubs was that you don't have to worry about any of that. Just bring money.

Yes, once a woman becomes a dancer she stops being human. Who the hell knows exactly what would impress an ATF? Yes, there are good stereotypes galore and some people don't wish or can't think beyond stereotypes. An excellent stereotype is the loser boyfriend, but that hardly mean all dancers or even 50% have loser boyfriends. Is a boyfriend a loser because his girlfriend financially supports him? If you believe in this equality garbage, then do also believe a girlfriend would be a loser girlfriend if she was financially supported by her boyfriend?

My ATF at Baby Dolls was very impressed because I gave her a ride home without expecting anything in return. It didn't make any difference when I pointed out that her home wasn't far from where I lived. Apparently it was the it's the thought that counts rule. BTW, she thought it was insane to judge or like people based on looks.

As far as being in shape, yes I'm sure there are some dancers who respect that or just like muscles. Some young dancers prefer, and rightfully so imo, hanging with broke young guys rather than earn some money with old farts. Don't fall into the brain dead trap that it is all about the money all the time for all dancers. An excellent rule of thumb is that she just wants your money, but it isn't mandated by god or even by genes. :)

LOL@chandler. Naw, I just like to generally stay in good shape for my general self-worth. I occassionally do get comments from outside of clubs about my fitness for my age. It is an ego builder and nice comments keeps drilling me on to continue. Most of the crap about fitness, abs, muscles, smell, etc., is general SS anyway.

Keep it up BG! Errrr.... I mean the regimens!

As I said several weeks back "For example telling a customer they are "in love" with them would be a possible example of a type of super stripper sh.t..... However, I don't believe it necessarily s/b a deal killer in the customer/ATF relationship if both parties are basically decent people and are both enjoying what each party presents to the other."

I have to update this a bit because now I have X dancer telling me not just once but now multiple times in an explicit manner, and now several other dancers in the club saying to me (sua sponte/on their own volition) the same thing (about X's dancer attitude toward me). Personally the only thing I think she is truely "in love" with is the constant flow of 100 dollar bills she seems to get when I'm around. I will admit there does some seem (at a min) to be some kind of (quite legit) soul mate thing developing as being a big mouth lawyer/talker type, I tend to keep the "convo" thing going, that (apart from the gentlemen/horndog persona alluded to elsewhere) might be what its really all about, and apparently most customers don't get much 2 way conversation going with dancers.

"Don't fall into the brain dead trap that it is all about the money all the time for all dancers. An excellent rule of thumb is that she just wants your money, but it isn't mandated by god or even by genes. :)"

Agree, what confuses people is that while its always somehow in the end about the money,(I mean they ARE doing a job) certain dancers can get a bit more kick out of certain patrons, and that is when being in shape or being presentable or whatever physical attribute one has - comes in real handy, and the patron senses this and it make the experience far more enjoyable for both parties. Now obviously if one doesn't give a shi.t about the dancers perception of the customer - then I suppose its all irrelevant anyways.

"Agree, what confuses people is that while its always somehow in the end about the money,(I mean they ARE doing a job)"

There are RARE exceptions. Felicity at Diamonds actually took a financial beating to give me fantastic dances in the VIP. When I say financial beating, I don't mean she made less or didn't make money. I mean she lost money. If I had known at the time that she got charged $5 for each dance, then there is NO way I would have allowed that to happen.

And as far as me being some fantastic customer of hers where she could afford to take an occasional loss---not really the case. Most of my visits she would just ignore me because she knew that I wanted GFE and she told me flat out she wouldn't do GFE when her relationship with her loser boyfriend was ok. Extras, not a problem at all. Conversation, not a problem at all. Lap dances, not a problem at all. GFE, big problem as long as her boyfriend isn't being a total piece of sh*t. Not only that, I later learned Felicity was an in demand dancer. This is a girl that also worked at a $5 club and it wasn't for the money. LOL! Sorry, but Felicity just didn't need $5 a dance when Diamonds (an expensive club) was eager to have her work especially full time.

Once in a blue moon, a dancer and customer will just hit it off. It is rare. I strongly prefer to keep some compensation in place--most dancers won't do that. A couple will say well that is your problem if want to continue paying and the relationship can continue. I can't repeat often enough that I believe these are exceptions. More likely with me, imo, because often it seems like the dancer and I share a poverty background.

Physical fitness is central to the relationship between my ATF and I. Our common interest in fitness is, probably more than anything else, what led to our friendship. She looks to me for fitness advice, as do I to her. It's something we talk about all the time. When we're together we either go to the gym or for a run nearly every day, and it's something that helps cement our friendship. For example, earlier today we were talking about signing up to run a 5k (3.1 miles) race on my next visit. She thinks it's amazing that someone my age can do the things that I do. So yes, she cares about my fitness level, and her perception of me is one of the main reasons that I work out regularly. She's my incentive.

Hi Fondl,

That is nice and understandable. I had a dancer who was very into good tasting health food. It was fun even though I'm more a cheap junk food eater. She especially liked that I could follow what she was talking about as far as nutrition and how important it was to have tasty healthy food. Looking at her I never would have guessed she was so into food. She credited it for keeping her slim and upbeat. She had some skill as a cook, too. :) But, really a little too advanced for me--too intimidating. :) She didn't stay in the business long . . .

FONDL, just out of curiousity, how long has it been since you and the woman you still call your ATF were customer and dancer, respectively, inside a strip club? What I found amusing were all the replies about getting in shape in order to enhance one's clubbing experience. I mean, I stay fairly fit as I have all my life, but if I spent a lot more time in strip clubs, I'd probably let myself go.

I met my ATF the first week of July 1997 and she quit dancing in January 1999. I didn't get fit for her or any other dancer, I was already working out regularly by then. But I kicked it up a notch after meeting her and have continued to do so ever since. Health and fitness have always been a major interest that we share. She was quite heavy when she was younger and was just beginning to work out when we first met, so I was able to give her some guidance. Now she does the same for me.

I think you may not fully comprehend what some others are talking about here because you haven't yet reached that critical age. But at some point some of us old guys become more and more concerned about the aging process and it's effect on both our longevity and our appearance, and we become more health and fitness conscious as a result. Attempting to appeal to young strippers is just one side of that, but an important side. Some of us enjoy the fact that we look a lot younger than we are, and we work hard to stay that way. Young strippers often reinforce that belief.

Younger strippers in general seem to care about age! And, that statement should almost elicit a NO DUH!

So it doesn't really matter that you're paying bucks for some hot dancers if you want positive attention then your appearance is important. Yes, you could try and find a different dancer that doesn't care about age, however, there is a fairly good chance that the dancers you like are age conscious.

Now, if it didn't make a difference---wonderful. :) Remember it isn't all about the money! LOL!

"Younger strippers in general seem to care about age!" Jablake, I agree - as soon as they learn the ropes they prefer older guys, because we treat them better and have more money. All the younger strippers I've ever known avoided guys their own age. We've talked about that here before.

FONDL is correct in his line of thinking. To reinforce that, on my trip back to Ohio, I stopped off at Stephanie's in Evansville, IN. All young dancers, except one 34 year old. Guess who comes and sits with Uncle Bones? Yep, the 34 year old. Why? Because the younger guys like to stick with the younger dancers. As long as you have a young crowd in the club, you'll find the young dancers hanging with them. The only time I find a young dancer prancing over to me is when she's been rejected by the younger customers.

This 34 y.o. dancer and I discussed ages of customers and dancers. She knew I preferred older experienced dancers, and boy I did not regret it one bit when we got behind closed doors!!!! This 34 y.o. dancer made about the same amount as the younger dancers..... but in a lot less time!

Hi Fondl,

Yes and No. Even after learning or knowing that it is the old guys who spend and generally are very appreciative it seems like with a good number of these young dancers you almost have to knock them over the head as long as the younger guys are there! And, believe me some of them actually do know that it is the old men generally who have the money.

And, when I say young I mean young. Generally, I don't have any interest in the older dancer even if she is nice and skilled and intelligent. The only exception that I can think of would be if her body still responds to contact. You know the fast heart, the hardened breasts, etc. Are there even old dancers like that? If so, then I might be willing to try a few oldies that are still hot. I just think the bodies go numb way too soon. :( And, that is my pleasure seeing and feeling the response. With other guys, middle age or young, it is usually all about fucking or blow jobs. I definitely LOVE both, but damn I have NO interest in that until I know the dancer a while.

You know these customers who are all focused on stick it in stick it in stick it in whether or pussy or ass or mouth, make it difficult on me! I mean sometimes it is like pulling teeth to get a dancer to come over because she assumes that she knows what I want really want he after I make very clear what I would like. Her assumption is LOCKED in place until the session is finished or I tell her there is no need for a condom because she is way ahead of me. Usually this is met with complete disbelief. (Some will laugh and say if I knew you just wanted some dances there wouldn't have been any trouble!) Yes, I definitely would like to get to that point (stick it in) just on a little slower time table. :)

FONDL, I think I know what it means to grow old. I'm not sure why being a strip club customer has to be such a touchy subject. At least Bones appreciates a bit of levity about the folly some of us indulge in.

I meant to comment on...

Some of us enjoy the fact that we look a lot younger than we are, and we work hard to stay that way. Young strippers often reinforce that belief.<

Once again, if it makes you feel better, that's terrific. I think I might look a little young for my age, too. But I don't kid myself that, to a young stripper, I look anything but OLD.

Chandler, what makes you think I was being either touchy or serious? I am rarely either, and certainly not here. Of course I realize that to a young girl I'm an old guy, how could I possibly think otherwise? I am an old guy, and proud of it, and I'm not the least bit touchy on the subject. I just think that being a fit old guy is better than being a slob, because it's more fun. I especially enjoy doing things that young people don't think us old guys can do. Like beating people half my age running a 5k race - now that's fun.

FONDL, that was the most serious claim of a lack of seriousness I could imagine. And it's not necessarily you who seems touchy, but everybody here who reacts indignantly whenever it's suggested that there's something funny about customer vanity.