Pay First versus Pay After in VIP

Be very wary of dancers that want payment up front. I have only met two. One was a so so dance. The other by "Regan" was a total rip off.

BTW.pop has warned me that Megan has gone from blond to dark Blue that looks black ITC.I have no worries. She knows that I know and she will not come near me.

I can't see how "when" payment is made will make any difference. Once you have decided to go to the VIP or lap dance room you have certainly obligated yourself to pay the agreed amount for the experience. You simply have to pay upfront or at the end, what's the difference? Hopefully you have tested the girl out with a table or lap dance before investing in a more expensive session and you will have some idea of what to expect. I would agree that any "tip" should obviously come at the end, if the performance justifies one.

snowtime: The difference being is trust. If she trusts you enough to know that she is going to get paid, then you can trust her to give a good dance. Do you prepay your barber?

No way pay first for dances. I know what I want, it isn't always demonstrated in a table dance. If I don't like after one dance in VIP, that's it we're done. I guess when she asks, "how many are we going to do?", I could say, "just one my dear". Then I could listen to a bunch o' shit about that. SCat's right, it's about trust. It's also about having the right to choose - how much or little I want to enjoy her company. I don't want a bunch of complications thrown in. If I have to think about it too much, I might forget where I left my bone.

I have had girls who I don't know very well, note "that was five, do you want to keep going?" A little reminder of the tab. That's annoying, but it only happens rarely. And they usually aren't there the next time...

snowtime, it shouldn't but it does. This applies to just about every contractor I've met: Too much upfront payment insures too little delivered quality.

I have no problem paying the club before, but have never paid the dancer before, nor would I, unless I knew her and what to expect.

I have only paid up front twice - once it was a rip off (much promised, new rules once the dances started). The second time I almost backed out of the deal, but the dancer was a 9 and she seemed to be sweet. She explained that she had been ripped off by a customer on a multiple dance deal, and would give me a volume discount if I paid up front. Despite my previous bad experience, I agreed and, to my surprise, she gave great dances. I tipped her an extra 20 just because I was glad not to get ripped off. Bottom line is, you just never know. I still am more comfortable with the post-dance pay.

The only time I paid in advance I got ripped off.

I have noticed that on Friday and Saturday nights it seem to be more common to request payment up front. I think it relates to the type of crowd that comes in on those nights, younger and drunker and more likely to stiff a dancer.

I must be missing something here. In every strip club I have ever been to, I asked the price before I got a dance. I suspect everyone except the super rich do the same. Since I know how much it is going to cost going in I can't see where it makes any difference whether I pay before or after the dance.The dancer obviously knows she is going to be paid either way. One of my regular clubs charges in advance and the dances are always great, assuming you pick the right girl. My other regular club, Shadowcat's second home, charges at the end. Again, the result is totally dependant on picking the right girl. The time of payment seems irrelevant to me as the dancer and I have already agreed on the price upfront. If it is a new dancer for me I might have a less than stellar experience, but I don't see time of payment being a factor. In the prepay club I have often purchased additional dances while in the private room.

Pay after. Girls who "insist on the money up front" are, by definition, girls who have a game to play that includes minimizing beyond acceptable levels of service and maximizing beyond reasonable levels of cost.

If the girl got payment upfront, she will not dance as nice as you may expect. The clubs I go, we want more than just dances and dances on the floor is just table dances. Lap dances are not allow here in Atlanta,ga. Girls will lapdance in VIP. One girl said that she has no problems of lapdancing in VIP, but wanted money upfront. This made me think that she will not comply with what we agreed. She danced but did not lapdance the whole time, but maybe 10 % of the time. She let me touch her breast, but not much. She was somewhat distant. She would say, "let me warm up" to whatever. I have never been treated badly when I pay her after the VIP is done. Another example, I paid for an hour VIP ( was horny ) and paid up front. She was nicer and basically did what she promised but got miscommunicated about "busting a nut". She does not like it for her to get wet. She placed her hanky, but my sweets passed through my pants and the hanky. She was not happy. My VIP lasted only 30 minutes. I got what I wanted, but my time was cut in half. She said that, since I got her wet that it cost me 30 min. I was upset. If I had not paid her upfront, I would have just given her half of the money. I paid for the time and service. Plus, she was tight on how I could touch her. If I did not pay her upfront, I bet she would not said anything. She let other guys on main floor touch her tits which is not allowed. She did not demand more money for that. So, I don't want to pay upfront. It is a gamble on which girl to trust. I was trying to expand my collections of babes.

"I must be missing something here. In every strip club I have ever been to, I asked the price before I got a dance. I suspect everyone except the super rich do the same. Since I know how much it is going to cost going in I can't see where it makes any difference whether I pay before or after the dance."

There must be an appropriate maxim such as you ain't got the money until you got the money. I know. Don't count your chickens before they hatch! Haven't met too many dancer who didn't understand this and act accordingly!!!

Because *you* will automatically pay the girl the agreed price somehow that means other customers will behave similarly? Sounds wacked. Club Angels saw 2 young men and perhaps 1 young woman have their lives destroyed because 1 of them refused to pay for a $20 VIP dance. That he refused to pay wouldn't have surprised anyone nor would the end result of at least 1 death or beating.

First young man refuses for whatever reasons to pay the $20. Second young man does his job and beats him to the ground. First young man responds by getting gun and shooting second young man dead.

Police immediately apprehend first young man after milking by attorneys (of the taxpayers) he gets life (no prior problems with the police, btw).

Young woman is crying her eyes out at the funeral of second young man blaming herself for wanting the $20. Second young man left a young bride and young baby behind.


SOLUTION: Ban strip clubs? Ban guns? Ban post-pay? Celebrate the fact that the lives of all 3 young people involved is evanescent? (They were all so young and it would surprise me if all 3 weren't dead by now----perhaps even all 5 thinking of young bride and young baby. At least they didn't die for medals or a flag. Damn the young woman was so sweet and sexy; she thought she was normal.)

BTW, normally it is brain-dead to pay upfront. I'll do it and sometimes the end result is positive and sometimes the end result is negative. Much better odds in my experience by paying after the dance, however, I'm still willing to pay upfront for the right dancer and take the gamble.

I've had a few "pay first" girls, and exactly one was worth the time. Most of them want the money more than they want the interaction. The one who was worth the time was commonly thought of as a bitch by the other dancers at her club, but she remains the best pure dancer I've ever met and we got along fine. (It's too bad she quit that club and went to this one hell hole I'll never go to.)

"I've had a few "pay first" girls, and exactly one was worth the time."

For me it has been 50/50, but the ones that aren't worth the time truly aren't worth the time. Just giving 'em the money to leave would have been a better deal.

Those that were worth the time and wanted to do a good job the issues were usually inexperience, manager ordered girls to get money first, recent rip-off or rip-offs by customers. The latter 2 reasons probably accounted for 90% or more of the girls wanted the money upfront as well as being the reason the manager ordered the girls to get money first. The dancers at Angels overwhelming HATE it when a manager starts that bullshit because they believe is slashes their profits.

Another point: usually when I've been in the position of FINDING OUT that the girl wanted her money before the dance / services, generally that was in the situation of her ALSO rattling off a long line of "do" and "don't" rules that were very annoying and ruining the mood -- and probably, that were rules I wasn't interested in following anyway. "OK, you can touch me here, but only with one hand at a time, and you can't touch me here, unless I make you do it with my hand, and you have to keep your mouth closed, and the if the bartender sells a Coke to someone you have to do the hokey-pokey, and ...". It's as much an attitude thing as anything else. The girl getting her money "up front" is (among other things) just sending "I'm a prissy pain in the ass" signals right an left.

ALWAYS: Know the price up front.

NEVER: Pay before service.

SIMPLE

Too simple for my humble tastes. If the dancer is pretty enough, then I'm willing to lose some cash to know more; positive or negative.

Also, there is a pretty good rule that if the dancer isn't doing a good job after 1 or 2 dances drop her. It took Gambling dancer over 6 dances before she started acting like she wanted my business and even then it didn't seem like the money was motivating her. How many dances was I willing to go? Probably a little or a lot over 10 dances ($50 = $5 X 10 dances).

Anyway that was many years ago. Although I do talk to her (rarely), her refusal to do paid dances for me remains steadfast.

Oh Jablake, you don't need to be contradicting the previous post-er. You both have similar approaches.

1. Check the girl out by getting a private lapper, or two, from her, to figure out how much MORE activity she'd LEGITIMATELY be offering. Pay after the lappers (or even, in extreme circumstances, before) the relatively small sum it costs for lappers.

2. Then go for greater levels of service. Pay the bigger sum for bigger service after.

Something you all need to keep in mind is that dancers not being paid in the end happens more than you think. I'm not saying whether you should pay before or after, just saying that some girls would rather be safe than sorry, and some just want to rip you off. Just because YOU would pay after the vip doesn't mean all guys will. If a guy refuses payment after a VIP what discourse does a girl have? None.

Hi Book Guy,

My point simply was that solution (never pre-pay) has costs that may not be worth the savings. :)

Jablake: yup, you can miss some real diamonds, by having a "bright line rule" about what you simply won't EVER do. So, I'd have to say, ALWAYS be willing to bend a rule this way or that, depending on the situation. But, if I were asked nevertheless to state a rule? I'd say, don't pre-pay.

Book Guy is right, I will only pay the 'room fee' before hand, and any money I DO pay I consider it gone. After the room fee, I offer tips for whatever service I want afterwards, and if there services is unsatisfactory I tip BADLY.

You've gotta make these girls stand correct and stop playing the fool.

Dancerhusband: SOME girls will ask to SEE the money first, but if I don't completely trust the girl, she doesn't get to hold it. And if she isn't compliant then I get up in the middle, and start to leave. Most girls will stop you before you even get up. They don't want to get into trouble and they DO want your money. You guys just have to get your $#it together, tighten your game, and stop letting these girls rule you.

I know a few dancers here and there and they actually RESPECT the men who know how to play the game, as long as those men pay well.

JMelcourne27,

What you say is my modus operandi. Only once have I been ripped. As always, I paid the room fee up front. Where I made my mistake was not getting a $ fee from the very HOT dancer first. She wanted a bit more then what I had, and normally, that is my limit. The wrong head figured, use the ATM, but of course, I do not take my card with me, just for that reason. She wouldn't lower her $'s to what I had, so that ended that. When I asked for my room fee back, it was "no way" from the bartender (not the one I know well). I asked for the manager, and got the same from him. I left and did not go to that club again. I hope that small room fee made up for all the money I no longer spent in that club. Some time later, MY bartender heard of this and called me. She told me all those involved had been fired for that sort of thing. I went back and all was back to normal. But I never saw the hot dancer again.

I have only had one dancer ask to see the cash before the dance. I let her "peek" at all I had (much more than what she asked for), and got one very good "dance". I guess she was hoping to get all I had. She didn't.

Interesting that some of you refer to a "tip" for certain services. I'd call it her fee for those services. For instance, the room fee is $100 for an hour. The girl wants $200 to do extras-service. I pay out a total of $320: $100 to the club for the "room fee," $200 to the girl for her "fee for services," and $20 more to the girl for her "tip" because I liked her. That's how I use the word "tip." The $200 isn't part of the "tip" because it's not discretionary on the basis of how WELL she performs. Rather, it's part of a "fee" because it's an agreed-upon charge that directly relates a specific service (or several) to a specific price.

It's really just a question of terminology, but to me, when you start to combine the $200 and the $20 (in the above example) into the same concept, no matter what you CALL it, you're creating a communication problem. That's because the two are "earned" by means of entirely different phases of the process.

BG,

I only see where one offhandedly refereed to anything other than the room fee as a tip. I think, perhaps, that was just a slip. I believe we all know the difference between the agreed upon service fee and a tip.

Hi Book Guy,

Yes, you're right. That is a good general rule. And, I think even with a crooked dancer it is better to pay after rather than before. There might be enough doubt in her mind as to whether you'll pay if given a poor dance that she decide to pick on someone who is easier.

As a general rule, I edon't pay up front. Would you buy a car before a test drive? I don't think so.

Clubber: you're right, this thread doesn't explore the mis-use of the term "tip" that I highlighted, as much as some other threads here have done. But I do see it, consistently here at TUSCL. Some brothers simply use the word "tip" to mean "fee for service other than dancing," perhaps because they wrongly think that the diminutive name "tip" would somehow exonerate them from any but a diminutive price? Or from criminal behavior?

Similarly, on the same terminology kick: I've seen sexual services consistently referred to as "extras," even to the point of "I paid for a handjob and she gave me the extra for a tip." Stupid usages. They point out a general discomfort we feel with announcing publicly our interest in sexual services. If you pay for a service, then it's not "extra" to the contract; it IS the contract. And the dollars aren't "tip" dollars, they're the FEE. Regardless of what was served up was "supposed" to happen at that club or not.

But I admit, I've capitulated to the "extra" terminology. If I go to a standard lap-dance strip-club, and also get a handjob, I might refer to this as an "extras-friendly club, where the dances are $20 and the extras cost extra." Seems almost tautological to say ...

BG,

You are so correct about the term "tip"! It isn't just in the SC industry, but all across our land. I always thought a "tip" was a reward for service ABOVE the norm. Not so any longer. "Tips" are EXPECTED for ANY service, be it pitiful to exceptional. Not only that, restaurants have decided how much you WILL tip in a party of 6-8 or more! Give me a break! Just this last Wednesday, I was at a restaurant with about 20 people in out group. Each bill included an 18% tip. The service, decent, but nowhere near "above normal". I wonder what would be said if I refused to pay? Might be fun to try next week!

The thing that kills me, is the tip-jar at a typical latte-espresso-coffee shop. The customer stands up. The customer walks to the counter. The customer makes an order. The server retrieves the drink from within an easy walk of the counter. Somehow, this is tip-able, just like a waitress walking all the way across a crowded restaurant and carrying a tray?

Oh, and ever notice the following? At fast-food places, we tip if it's the sort of place where white, middle-class, college-attending, yuppie, bohemian-dressed people work: Starbucks, coffee shops, snack bars on campus. But we don't tip if it's the sort of place where minority lower-class uneducated people work: McDonald's, Taco Bell. But both sorts of places often offer almost identical menus and do definitely offer the same type of service -- walk-up-to-the-counter service.

BG,

The only places like you mention, that I tip are limited to two. Here, in South Florida, most of the coffee shops in county buildings are run by the blind. Those people I tip! They are not sitting on their collective asses looking for a handout. The other place, a "local" pizza shop. Having owned one and knowing the work that goes into it, I tip the people running the shop when I pick up the pie.

As for clubs, I tip the bartenders a bit, IF they are quick to serve me, say under 10 seconds. Dancers, ONLY if they do something to deserve it. Walking by me and asking for a tip, is NOT deserving!