What is the minimum wage for a stripper?

I'm not very interested in the case, itself, but I'd like to know how Mr. Patrick Manshardt both (A) finds his clients, bills them, in general interacts with them, since in my imagination he is living the dream and (B) looks at himself in the mirror without laughing, when he realizes that he is representing strippers and is named Man's Hard.

Independent contractor status has held up nearly everywhere this has been litigated, but its just a matter of time before some club or group of club - loses such a case.

A true independent contractor (e.g a plumber) would be able to work on Club A on Monday afternoon and Club B across the street on Tuesday afternoon - yet most clubs blacklist girls that try this.

The (often 3 day) mandatory must-show days that most clubs use to always make sure there is a core group of dancers at any given time on the floor - also presents problems for independent contractor status.

Also the common (in most clubs) mandatory stage calls during the shift is another problem, because its adds another layer of control on the dancer - and further suggests an employee/employer relationships.

Today, for dancers that make the bigger money, lets say in the range of 50k to 100k or more per year, the current system with the lax tax enforcment is no doubt much better, because for example JUST the self-employment tax alone (off the top with no deduction before you hit regular fed or state tsxes) is 15.3% of over 15,000 dollars for a 100k earner -who would then typical pay another 10 to 20k in fed and state taxes. Why the IRS doesn't crack down on dancer's Im not sure.

It's cash. How could they prove anything? Plus strippers are great at playing the "poor, helpless single mom" card.

"It's cash. How could they prove anything"

Basically the IRS examines the lifestyle and works backwards. They look at where you live, what kind of car you drive, whether you take fancy vacations, credit card bills, furniture you have, and 99 other factors. IRS agents are not idiots, and if a dancer who has not filed or is suspected of significantly underreporting income gets audited, the IRS can make them show the sources of nearly everything they bought or rented or even gave away in last 1 to 5 years of longer. They have formulas they've developed over the years that are used to prove fraud in criminal cases -and the courts in general have backed up these methodologies.

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There is not a lot of money being made in clubs these days. More and more girls working the floor so the money spread thinner. High end players are getting the shit cracked out of them with the stock market and the over priced house (and car) they usually like to buy. Low end can't afford the gas to get to the club. Wall Street threw thousands of investment banker types out on their ass this week. There is going to be a lotta empty seats and a lot of bitchy divas out there for a while.

"High end players are getting the shit cracked out of them"

Bonuses next year will be either non-existence or drastically reduced -that's the word. What most people don't realize is typically (on average) 40% of any bonus goes directly to pay fed and state taxes.

Its true the squeeze will begin to hit these dancers from both ends. Over the past year, I would definitely be in the top 1% in terms of spending (my most important ($$$ wise) actually purchased a house for a relative in another country) but this upcoming year I will cut way back, and even though as a percent of net income and net worth its not that big a deal for me, I've figure I've taken a hit of at least 200k to 300k in terms of the dollar vs the euro based upon money market cash I hold, and I also got hit real bad on the alt min tax for 2007 with total fed taxes paid well over 6 figures, and with Obama almost sure to get in, that means probably another 10k to 30k in taxes next year because he's going to "tax the rich", plus people like me pay 100% of college tuition, no grants or other subsidies others get. Bill Gates is rich and there's alot of us very low end so-called "rich" with huge taxes paid every year, and I cannot hide behind untaxed deferred capital gains the way Gates and Buffet do. I gotta pay every year at 40% on the dollar beyond a certain point

I ran a calculation the other day, and what I paid just in tips over the past year came out to just over 5 figures, which I think is way more than most strip clug patrons spend on regular charges in clubs each year

Fortunately I carry almost no debt, but when patrons like me get real worried, dancers might want to start looking for real jobs.

correction: "my most important ($$$ wise) ATF type dancer...

Real jobs... LOL! So "honey" and "vixxxen" are going to be asking us "Would you like fries with that, sir?"

If guys like David9999 cut back on clubbing, the rest of us can't carry the load of keeping dancers happy. So the industry is about to go through some tough times and dancers will have to make some difficult choices--how far to go with extras, leaving the SC scene, recruiting more loyal regulars. We may be facing a real shrinkage in the industry and the issue of minimum wage will become moot.

A cabbie told me of picking up a stripper to take her home. She had worked 8 hours and made 47 bucks. Her tip out was 35 bucks and the cab ride 8 bucks. She worked 8 hours for 4 bucks.

A onetime associate, who was totally fine, and had a bubbly uniquely entertaining personality, told me she worked only on Friday and Saturday nights and her take home was fifteen hundred a night.

lots of these dancers will make like (after tip outs) 70 bucks one day, 150 the next etc - then every once and awhile some guy starts dumping money on them (therefore making the job way better than Walmart) - so they end up with 700 dollars for one day. However, those guys (dancers tell me) just are not hitting the clubs like they used to. Now if the clubs can somehow get lots of new patrons - they s/b able to come up with guys like this now and then

Man, I wonder what happens when girls who have only done stripping as a career go in for real jobs. Then they have to do things like show up on a regular schedule, treat people respectfully, do something for their money rather than just have it fall out of the sky... Gonna be some challenging transformations for some.

Yes, that challenging transformation -- and the failure of many to actually accomplish it -- is probably behind why a lot of women return to stripping even when they know it would be in their better interests to get a more "real" or "normal" position.

Some clubs pay the girls minimum wage or near that, some clubs don't pay anything. They just play with the numbers as far as tip outs, etc...I have even heard that Admiral theatre in chicago offers health insurance, probablyl with the girls picking up some/most of the tab. Even so, its nice that there are establishments that attempt to make it beneficial for the girls to stick around.

I have never heard of clubs paying the girls. I thought they were all independent contractors and pay the club for the right to dance there.

I've heard many sob stories from girls - especially daytimers - that claim they barely can cover their tips and payouts and leave with virtually nothing. But typically, they are the ones that like to sit around a drink with customers rather than hustle for dances.

agree with David9999. dancers involved in lawsuit should be careful what they wish for. They start getting paid wages, they will have taxes withheld. I know several who don't even file right now, so they are making a tax free income. Clubs start paying strippers, the IRS will know who they are, may start coming after them for back taxes. Ladies, leave well enough alone.

I may have to keep this in mind. If a dancer I just met suddenly suggests something about me becoming a boyfriend, she may be thinking I could be a good backup if things get real bad. Probably time to stay away and not get too close.

I have met a few dancers who are only moonlighting as a dancer and hold real jobs the rest of the week. I like those dancers. They are much nicer, less demanding and it's a lot easier to carry on a normal conversation with them. However they don't seem to work in strip clubs for too long.

Good point. strippers who have been part of the real world (college or real jobs) are often pretty close to being normal women. Career strippers or ones who have only stripped during their lives usually have ZERO people skills.

As usual the lawyers are the only ones who will get any money out of this...

It's been years since any club in my neck of the woods payed dancers any sort of salary to show up. Honestly, the independent contractor system is much more profitable and flexible for the dancers under the right conditions. I confess that I don't know much about the clubs in California but I can't help but wonder why any girl would dance in a club that took half of their money.

I think you guys will find that in a lot of clubs most of the girls only make money on Friday and Saturday nights - they work the other shifts just to be allowed to get a weekend night shift. It's always been pretty common for dancers to make next to nothing on other shifts, then make a bundle on weekends. That may not be true everywhere but it's true in a lt of clubs and has been for years.

Most waitresses don't get paid minimum wage either and they are employees. The Federal minimum wage law only applies to businesses engaged in interstate commerce and to businesses that have over a certain number (100?) of employees. Some states have stricter requirements. Ask your newspaper boy if he gets minimum wage.

My paperboy comes by at 40 mph tossing paper to his left with someone (wife?) in the back seat tossing them out the right. I tried asking, but I can't talk that fast.

I've heard some pretty persuasive arguments, that the minimum-wage laws are generally a waste of time anyway. The people who DO make it are few and far between, and the people who make LESS than it aren't covered by the legislation anyway, since they're either under-the-table, or sub-contractors, or some other cheezy arrangement. I think those arguments tend to come from people who wish to advocate for some sort of utterly unfettered market, and I usually disagree with them on other points about that subject, but on this one I kinda figger maybe they have the specifics.

Another thing about minimum wage is, that it creates a "social standard" even if it is sometimes (often?) transgressed. It isn't JUST a number below which no payment must go; it's also a statement made by the government that "we all deserve a fair" something-or-other, and that the "fair" is at THIS point X on the number-line. I think that the current minimum-wage laws do an atrociously poor job of identifying where "fair" or "do-able" or "fair pay" should rest on the number-line. Most nuclear families, of two school-kids and a married couple, both parents working, can't POSSIBLY "get by" on two minimum-wage salaries. So, again, I come back 'round to the libertarians' point of view, about minimum-wage laws -- what they're designed to do, they don't do. Though they might be good in theory.

Which isn't to say that I wouldn't advocate FOR a certain type of "minimum pay" or "minimum American standard of living" (though it might not be the employer's responsibility to provide all of it) including, for example: decent reliable access to decent public schooling through to the Bachelor's level, as long as you don't drop out / get pregnant / commit crimes / etc.; basic health coverage for all accident and unavoidable-disease situations; safe streets; transportation to/from your place of employment/school that is also reliable and regular and safe. But heck, if I could have all of that, I could just move to Holland or Denmark! Why ruin OUR system when you can just have someone else's?

actual discussion I had just a few days ago with an american (100% english speaking) dancer - and I know in the past 7 to 8 years this girl who has both the right look and the right personality working for her - has done very well, guessing easily more than 50k a year recently, and probably way more before the slowdown

Customer (referring to her club earnings) "do you pay any taxes at all?"

Dancer "none"

Customer "You just keep the cash and don't even file?"

Dancer " basically that's it"

Customer "does the club issue any 1099's or other forms of any type?"

Dancer "nothing at all"

I formerly worked for a state agency that enforced employment laws. Some fellow co-workers made a case in a beach town that the dancers at a strip club fell under the definition of employee & not independent contractor because the club posted a set of rules the dancers had to follow, required mandatory attendance of meetings and were prohibited from working for other clubs. An employee is defined as someone who is under the direction & control of the employer. Hell, this could make the customer an employer in a strip club coudln't it? My favorite club calls the dancers independent contractors (they are free to work whatever days they want & whatever time they want) but has "fired" some of the dancers who worked there for drug use, sexual acts, etc. If the dancer is truly an independent contractor, then she could possibly sue the club for breach of contract even though it's verbal couldn't she? ChiTownlawyer: Any thoughts here?

I know one dancer that told me she filed an income tax return.

CarolinaWanderer, I was being facetious about the paperoby thing, mine is similar to yours. The reason I raised it is that newspapers are frequently the champions of minimum wage laws and child labor laws etc., and yet they've almost always managed to have gotten an exception for their industry. If that isn't the height of hypocrisy I don't know what is. Keep that in mind the next time you read one of their stupic editorials supporting these kinds of labor laws, they're almost always exempt. As is Congress, who ignores labor laws.