I’ll start by saying I’m new to this whole scene and have very little experience. However, I’ve been to the same club a handful of times and I’m building good rapport with a dancer, I would say. The first night we met, she gave me her number. I always keep it strictly business, I tell her when I get home safe and be sure to thank her again for a nice time. Aside from that, I only text to confirm when she’s working so we can setup ITC. The second time I visit her, she actually brings up OTC first and mentions grabbing sushi sometime. I try to play it cool and nothing ends up getting setup. I schedule a third time to meet her ITC, she brings up OTC again, I tell her I’d like to take her out, but still, nothing gets solidified. I see her a fourth time ITC and she mentions “our little sushi date”, as she calls it and I give a specific day that I’m free to take her out. She’s unsure of the day and there is still nothing set in stone. However, every time we plan to see each other ITC, I get progressively better mileage, she says and does sweeter and sweeter things and opens up more about personal stuff. She obviously knows how much I spend, I can clearly afford her and I would think at this point I’ve demonstrated that I’m not a total creep and I care about her comfort level and boundaries, otherwise things wouldn’t have progressed this far, right? I believe I’ve conveyed that I’m not trying to be her boyfriend, I just like having fun with her and I appreciate her time and attention. What do y’all think? Have I been getting strung along the whole time so I keep coming back to the club and she never had any intention of OTC to begin with? Maybe she’s just a really good stripper and can convincingly sell it without actually selling it. Did I fuck up by not pulling the trigger immediately? Could it happen eventually? Any input is welcome, feel free to ask for more details.
We’ve gone to the VIP each time I’ve been there, but I’ve never gotten FS. Each time, she will do more to me and let me do more to her. This most recent time, she did ITP just to lube me up with her spit and she proceeded to do OTP with pretty much every part of her body with the intent of making me bust, but I need more stimulation than that. I know some of these terms have ambiguous definitions. How do you know then when OTC is a genuine offer? How does one get or negotiate true ITC?
If she brought up otc several times and it still hasn't happened, I assume you're being strung along while she continues to drain your wallet in the club by talking sweet to you.
Best bet to see if it is going to happen or not is to skip going to the club and then text her saying you've been too busy to see her at the club but that you'd love to catch up with her outside the club. How she handles that discussion should tell you what her actual intentions are.
As for how to get it or otc, just flat out tell her you want to fuck and ask how much it'll cost. If she does either itc or otc she'll give you a price. If she won't even give you a price after you've seen her multiple times like you have it means she doesn't do it.
Whodey is giving you some sound action items. From your description, it's not clear that you've been following up adequately. It's not on her to firm up all of the details. You need to present a proposal where all she needs to say is yes or no or, of there's a "maybe", where you can convert it to a "yes". If she's down for OTC, it won't matter that you weren't proactive before now
Thank you guys for your advice. I’ll try a more direct approach because being shy is getting me nowhere. I just feel like it’s disrespectful to straight up ask for it, but they already think I’m a PL, so what difference does it make?
Dancers have all been asked many things over the course of their career, so don’t be shy about asking. Set-up your sushi date and let her know it will be worth her time….as long as you can afford it…. Things like this can get expensive real quick…… so stay within your spending comfort zone.
Q: Have I been getting strung along the whole time so I keep coming back to the club and she never had any intention of OTC to begin with?
A: I think that yes, you have been.
Q: Did I fuck up by not pulling the trigger immediately?
A: I think that yes, you did,
Q: Could it happen eventually?
A: I think that’s yes, it could happen, if you become the man in the relationship and are willing to pay the price, not only in money, but in time and effort.
You wrote and I quote:
“I can clearly afford her and I would think at this point I’ve demonstrated that I’m not a total creep and I care about her comfort level and boundaries, otherwise things wouldn’t have progressed this far, right?“
I think you might be wrong in thinking/believing that you have demonstrated not to be a creep.
It is really up to her to decide what is her worth to sell you what you want, some girls wont do it with you at any price.
I think you might still have a chance of having sex for money with her, because Informal prostitution is very common in the “modern dating world”.
What I would recommend to you is to first decide what is your ultimate goal?
The TUSCL Glossary definition of OTC as:
Outside The Club - Meeting with a dancer for anything from an after work snack at Denny's to a dinner date to an escort session. Not usually approved of by the club or by many dancers.
However most people in TUSCL expect/want some kind of sexual contact/relationship, who doesn’t?
You have to decide, in advance, if you are interested in her for an OTC “relationship”, as a one night stand, “escort type of session”, develop a sugar baby type of relationship, make make her your girlfriend, future mother of your kids, kept woman, 🏆 trophy wife, dinner date, etc etc etc
Since you said she suggested sushi, the next time she mentions it you should say “I would like to take you for sushi, and I would like to have you for dessert”, and laugh about it.
In my humble opinion and limited experience, I think she appears to be interested in YOU for some reason, (your wallet) but consider yourself lucky that she told YOU she wants to have a “little sushi date” with YOU. It might just be “love (of your wallet) at first sight”...
If you are interested in OTC with her on the long run you can suggest the method/relationship that better works for you for example the P4P method and if it goes well for you two develop a sugar baby type of relationship. it is up to you, whatever you decide, and can comfortably afford.
The most important thing is good communication and clear understanding of what you and her are talking about and agree to do.
I usually let the girl know that I value my time and her time and don’t want to waste her or my time.
As always just remember:
“Nothing ventured, nothing gained”
A sexual/romantic/business pursuit often require to “risk” one of two situations:
1. pursuing when interest is not reciprocated (resulting in rejection)
2. failing to pursue when interest is-may be reciprocated (resulting in a missed opportunity).
Make sure that you let her know that you are interested in a mutually beneficial relationship/arrangement. And let her decide if you are worth her time and effort.
Let’s be careful out there, and don’t fall in love/lust with a stripper, unless she has a heart of gold.
Just be direct and tell her your intentions. As is. She's stringing you along and does the minimum she needs to, to keep you spending. If youre happy with your arrangement that's fine. But the stringing along is manipulative.
Id tell her ill be too busy with work for a while but that i could definitely meet up for sushi and ask her to let you know with a date. See what she does. Coz she'll miss your money
This seems like an alright community, thank you all for the reality checks. I am not in love with her, like I said, "...I’m not trying to be her boyfriend, I just like having fun with her and I appreciate her time and attention." She's fun to talk to and she makes me horny, I just want to hang out and then make each other cum buckets. I'm interested in P4P. I have actionable intel, I just need to stop being a little bitch.
You should be able to get OTC without needing to grab sushi first. That might be some sort of hustle in itself where you take her out and she gets a free $200-$300 in sushi and drinks. Did you do DATY or get a BBBJ? Or was ITP just her spitting on junior? And then rubbing him from outside the pants? How much did you pay her ITC for each session?
Hopefully you didnt spend more than $100 on the HJ whether ITP or not. Thats all its worth.
Its not always a good thing to show you can afford them via spending a ton of money on dances. It can also give the impression youre satisfied with just the dances. And it can lead to them gouging the price on OTC. If you already spent $400 on an hour of dances, they may want even more for an hour of OTC. Vs if you spent $100 on dances a couple times. 2 ITC sessions is enough to move things OTC, otherwise they’re retarded or scamming or have some sort of hangups related to it and it would be a poor experience anyway. If they only provide a CBJ or HJ, id rather just get nothing and keep the money
That's a stupid comment. It makes you sound like a chick pretending to be a guy. Why would this be "business" for you? LOL.
As far as the rest, she's playing a stringalong. You need to stop rewarding it. There are a couple of ways to play it.
You could do what whodey suggested and skip the club for a while, meaning go to another club instead, lol. If she texts, you can respond by saying that you've been very busy, but that you'd love to catch up with her outside the club.
Another option is to go to her club and spend on another girl instead. Personally this has always been my preferred approach. But it's tougher to pull off as you: (1) need to be willing to brush off some static; and (2) have to keep a relaxed and happy posture. Never tell her that it's because she won't see you OTC. Instead just tell her that you're just spreading your wings a bit.
Oh, and if she finally agrees to an OTC adventure, don't let her get away with being vague about date expectations. Make sure she understands that for you a meetup includes a hotel stop after after the sushi meal. Also ask her point blank what she needs for all of that. If she is evasive or non-committal at any point in this process, then she is still just stringing you along.
The sushi date would not cost that much unless she’s intentionally picking the most extravagant things on the menu and lots of them. She’d have to be bursting at the seams to rack up that kind of bill. But I suppose it’s definitely still possible. I did a little DATY, she did not let it continue very long. It was more like a tease at the end of the dance right before close. She put her mouth on the tip, but that was a tease too. When she was really trying to get me off, it was all OTP, hands, tits, ass & crotch. There was LFK and we were sucking each other’s nipples too. The touching was mostly one-way, but she was very aggressive and all over me with every part of her body. She said some things and with her movements, her intent was definitely to make me cream my pants. I’m just not as sensitive as some dudes, I rarely cum from blowjobs even. She did say she was sorry that I couldn’t cum, but that just means she’ll have to make me cum next time. Could just be SS, but then again, the intent was there last time. I have most commonly spent around $500, but last time, I bought her out for the night, which was $700. Plus drinks and tips when she was asked to go to the stage 3 times over the course of the night. I have seen her a total of 4 times
It's hard to say. She might be stringing you along with the express intent of keeping you coming back ITC. That's probably the most likely explanation. If you haven't talked about payment on our little sushi date, that could also very well be the explanation. Or, scheduling may be an actual problem. If she's got a SO, it might be tough to find a time. It might need to be spontaneous or planned well in advance depending on ya'lls combined situations.
My question is, does it matter if she's stringing you along? Are you having fun ITC and getting what you feel is good value? Or are you spending your time/money with the express intent of laying the groundwork for an OTC relationship and if that doesn't happen you'll have failed?
A lot of guys here tend to get all worked up about a stripper lying to them. I honestly couldn't care less. If I'm getting what I want, I'm more than willing to let them "hustle" me for months. A lot of guys here also advocate for being explicit about what you want in terms of sex. I'm not a fan of that approach either.
I'd say if you're having fun ITC, why not keep doing it? You can keep nudging towards OTC if that's something you'd also like to try. But if it's not your end goal, who cares if she's lying about it. However, if it is your goal, then I'd agree that it's best to quit beating around the bush and set it up. I wouldn't go so far as to say you want a blow job, or to go down on her, or fuck her. But I'd make it clear that you want to do more than just have a meal. Mention going back to a hotel or your place or whatever. Again, this advice is based on being a bit flexible in your wants. If you'll feel cheated if you don't get a BBBJ, don't take my approach. But if you're a little flexible, I find I get much better, more natural service, at a better price, buy not getting down to the nitty gritty.
You can bring up money, I recommend making an offer that you feel is fair, but you can ask her how much too. Others will disagree, but I find the figure tends to be close to what I'd spend on the room + the tip for ITC. My schedule is somewhat flexible, so I tend to work with them on that part. Ask her if there are days/times that are good for her or offer a few that works for you. Like, "are you usually available on Tuesday afternoons" or something. I like to shoot for day's she'd normally be working at the club, but that tend to be slowest. That way, if I'm offering more than she typically makes in a day, it's easy math to swap out a day at the club for a day with me. I don't wanna waste my Friday night with a stripper, and she probably doesn't either.
Go to the hotel first THEN get your sushi, not the other way around. Tell her you want all three holes bare. MSOG. Get your money's worth. If she declines, sushi is off the table. You've spent a lot of money up to this point and haven't received much in return. Try for a better return and if she says no, you ignore her from now on.
I really don't understand all of these comments complaining about having to bear the cost of a sushi dinner. If he can't afford a modest dinner tab, then he shouldn't be taking strippers OTC in the first place. There are many cheaper ways to nut than taking a stripper out, lol.
Most of the girls I've taken OTC over the years have preferred something direct to hotel. But every so often I come across who that wants to be wined and dined a bit first. As the most recent one put it, she didn't want to "feel like a whore." It's funny how many of these girls are fine with direct hotel meets after that first dinner/fuck date and some actually prefer it. Once you convince them that you don't think of them as whores, you can treat them as such pretty much every time after. 😉
If she mentions the sushi date again, give her a date and time to meet up. If she creates and excuse, and doesn't offer an alternate date/time, decide whether you're okay with ITC only. If not, move onto another girl.
You can always surprise her and bring her sushi to the club... The dinner is the absolute least of it. Shes using it to create rapport. Like an inside thing between the two of you.
Ive had girls act like that and ive told them they dont have to play games coz im not into that childish shit. Just be real with me. Most get offended. Which is fine with me. I understand they do it because it works and secures them a bag. But i think its borderline humiliating to be played like that.
1. go into the club. tell her you want ITCS FS (or whatever you want OTC) tonight. See what happens.
2. if #1 is a success, text her the next saying "let's meet OTC for more of what we did ITC", be specific about the date. She'll commit or not, and you will know.
Rick a sushi date can cost $200. That is in addition to whatever she is charging for the OTC meetup, plus hotel costs. By that point, you may be into $700+ territory, so it means its not worth doing anything unless this stripper is playboy model or pornstar level hot. Theres an actual playboy model charging $700 an hour!
If shes got a SO, dont bother getting any dances or otc or anything else. Girls with SOs have a bunch of hangups. A BBBJ might be cheating while a CBJ isnt. Kissing is probably cheating. DATY or getting off with clients is cheating. It’s completely pointless, if not also very embarrassing, engaging in p2p with someone who has an SO. Youre getting poor mileage in the club or in the OTC, plus helping support some leech guy.
Those numbers you mentioned are far too high even if she sucked the tip and let you DATY briefly. $500 should include a 10 minute BBBJ and as much DATY as you want and full service.
The issue with sushi is its very light and relatively expensive. It would probably take $50+ of sushi to equal the calories and fullness of one big burger or other entree. Then you also have drinks on top, plus any potential appetizers or dessert.
The other issue is youre dealing with an industry where scams and thefts are extremely prevalent. Due to the illegal or semi legal nature of the sex work/escort/OTC stripper industry, the rates of scams and thefts are far far higher than the general population.
Even if you get a girl to a hotel room, she could just decide to scam and refuse to provide service. Would you be willing to fight and take back your money by force in that scenario… or otherwise avoid those scenarios by paying her only after the service has been provided. A lot of them may not be okay with being paid after service
It’s a challeng even for the most competent monger, and apparently Icey and Dugan know how to do it more successfully than the average PL. if you ever have success in your civilian dating life, those skills transfer over well in setting up OTC meets. I never ask the question until I’m sure the answer is yes. It helps if you for game, but what skills besides $$ will seal the deal if you ain’t got game?
With everything y’all are saying I should expect, this either isn’t an extras club, or she’s banking on me being shy and not asking for more. There are cameras in the VIP, but that hasn’t stopped her from breaking some of the alleged rules with me and I’ve seen other customers in the VIP “break the rules“ too. Just not to the extent that you’re saying. I would consider dick out to be UHM and I’ve only gotten and am aware of other customers getting VHM/OTP/ITP. Although with her previously trying to get me to cum, I’d consider that an extra. I can always ask her in person if we can do more ITC. I have no idea if she has an SO and I don’t care to ask. Probably a little too personal and I simply don’t care one way or the other. I’m not trying to date her, I just want to have as much fun as I possibly can. I understand this can limit my maximum fun, but I still enjoy my time with her, even if she’s not whipping it out. Ideally, that’s what I want, but I can still have a good time with her and try again with other dancers, be more assertive and see where it takes me. I just won’t be spending as much on her if I can conclusively determine I’m not going to get any further. I’ll be direct over text and put the ball in her court to give me a definitive answer about a specific date/time. Her answer, or lack thereof, will tell me where I stand. If she agrees, great, I’ll just be up front with what I would like for the sushi date and ask what she needs from me to make that happen. If not, I’ll hold off on her club for a little while, go back, meet some other dancers while changing my game up and seeing if I’m successful with OTC or even ITC. I just need to get to scheduling something immediately once it’s offered to see if it’s genuine. When I take new dancers to VIP, I can just straight up ask if I can please do xyz. I can always get VIP time with the current dancer and know that it will be fun, just not too much fun. The purpose of SCing is to enjoy oneself, right? So as far as I’m concerned, I’m doing alright. I’m enjoying my time, enjoying the chase and anxious to try out new things and see what the results are
Do they sell individual lapdances, how much each? $300+ is way too much to spend if your mileage is only her grinding on junior and grabbing her tits and ass. If you find out she was playing you and stringing you along , just stop getting any dances and tell her you found a better looking dancer when she asks why you stopped coming. If theres no better looking dancers at that club just stop going to it and tell her the same thing when she asks why you stopped coming.
* "I would consider dick out to be UHM" - most would not agree. * "I can always ask her in person if we can do more ITC." - good idea. * "I have no idea if she has an SO and I don’t care to ask" - this should be 100% irrelevant to both of you. * "I’ll be direct over text and put the ball in her court to give me a definitive answer" - good idea. * "The purpose of SCing is to enjoy oneself, right?" - hell yes!
...and finally "I’m doing alright." I agree. Anytime you have a hottie wiggling in your lap you're doing better than the average joe on the average night.
^a clients SO isnt the dancers concern but it is very much the clients concern if a dancer has one. It’s literally the number 1 factor that determines whether a dancer is a scammer or provides poor mileage and poor service. If you waste time on a girl with a SO youre going to be dealing with someone whos going to have a bunch of hangups and be incapable of performing properly. Girls with SOs are more likely to just scam, and they likely wont do things like bbbj or daty or kiss.
Rickmacrodong, that’s a pretty compelling argument about the SO. But there’s no way to screen for that unless you outright ask and that’s just weird. They’re not going to talk about that in any way, shape or form, they know it’s going to kill the fantasy and therefore their sales. To answer your previous question, an hour in the VIP is $300 and that’s where most of my money has gone with her: time in VIP. So by your standards, I’m getting very little bang for my buck, despite the fact I’m still having a good time, just longing for more. It’s not like I’m disappointed with my mileage, *unless* I come to find out she never had any intention of OTC and it was just a carrot on a stick. I just have to not be afraid of offending a dancer by politely communicating what I really want after some rapport and comfortability has been established. Otherwise, she’s going to work as little as possible to get my money and just offer platitudes to get me coming back.
^how did you spend $500 on her, did you give her additional tips for something or just for additional time in VIP? You only needed to do the $300 dance one time before moving things to OTC. That’s enough time to get to know each other and build some trust
Still, even if it doesnt work out, its still a learning experience, many may have gone through something similar when starting clubbing
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.”
~ Cuban refugee Tony Montana (Al Pacino) in the movie Scarface (1983)
Since you said you can afford her…
I would refer you to Demosthenes (384 – 12 October 322 BC) ~ Greek statesman and orator of ancient Athens.
1. We have courtesans for the sake of pleasure. 2. Concubines for the daily health of our bodies, and 3. Wives to bear us lawful offspring and be the faithful guardians of our homes
In this list is the Greek view of woman in the classic age.
In today’s world Demosthenes would say:
We have:
1. High end escorts, centerfolds, actresses, models, Strippers (ITC OTC) etc that provide PSE/GFE for the sake of pleasure. 2. Mistresses/Sugar Babies/Concubines; etc, for the daily health of our bodies. 3. Trophy Girlfriends/Wives to bear us lawful offspring, and be the faithful guardians of our homes. 4. Realistic Sex Dolls/Gynoids/Fembots, and Internet Porn and Instagram/Onlyfans “Models”, for kicks-and-giggles”. 5. Street walkers and 304s for when you are horny, drunk, high, depressed, bipolar or just plain stupid and crazy, poor and miserable and can’t afford anything else.
Historically It is the same all over the world…
If you have the money and can afford her and possibly many others, buy what you can comfortably afford and enjoy all of it,
if you don’t have the money or you can’t afford it economically, mentally, morally, emotionally, physically, intellectually etc etc etc then don’t buy things you can’t afford…
Yes. Additional time in VIP, I’ll tip her a little extra, especially when she’s on stage, and I’ll buy her some drinks. She gets friskier and cuddlier when she’s toasty, as I’m sure most dancers do. Despite all I’ve spent, I wouldn’t say I’m getting UHM, but she did earnestly try and want to make me bust and she does make me feel like a king. I just need to step my game up to see if she’s actually willing to do more. I am learning and there are plenty of strippers in the sea. I appreciate your input
stop with game. Ask her. Clearly tell her you want to meet up OTC, why you want to meet up, when, where and how much you are offering.
As for dancers with a SO not providing ITC or OTC extras, I've had dancers call me up for a meet up because they need some extra cash to buy their BF a present.
the most common justification is that this isn't cheating, it is work. Second most common is she will do extras until he steps up and starts paying all of her bills.
K, what I mean by this is to stop being shy. Step my game up = be more confident. Say what I want. I’m too shy to even “play games”, I’m just too quiet and polite for my own good
Ok. makes sense. this shows how not being perfectly clear hurts your message.
She gets these offers often and will not be offended.
I hope this one says yes to you. if not, i hope the rejection helps you realize, there is no downside to asking. the worst that happens is she says no. You then continue as you were, or you move on to find someone else. Your choice.
I'll try not to over complicate this. Here's what I suggest,
1. Try to setup the "sushi" date. But you, not her, suggest the location of the "sushi" restaurant. Pick a restaurant where it's cheaper and not too expensive. Get her reaction. Is she interested in only the expensive restaurants or is she satisfied with your choice? Her reaction will provide insight on her intentions.
2. Remember the "law of diminishing returns" applies here. Don't think that the more you spend either ITC or OTC will mean you'll have proportionally more fun. You'll have to find that sweet spot where the amount you spend is in balance with the amount of your fun.
3. You'll have to make your intentions known, but start off slowly with something easy and simple, such as a hj, so she feels secure and comfortable. Don't waste money on a hotel, at this time. It's not needed. And when talking about a hj, don't mention money. Wait for her reaction, so you can gauge whether she may be a good for more fun.
4. If there was good vibe on the "sushi" date, follow-up with another date and reveal more of your intentions, following the above paradigm.
K they may very well provide extras, but it will be mechanical extras most of the time and theyll likely do Cbj instead of bbbj. They may not let you really pound them either. No daty, no fingering. There may be exceptions but I would assume someone with an SO will have many many restrictions in the encounter which will make it not worth doing. Also you mentioned another good point, they dont consider it cheating because its work and business. That’s true, and it leads to ultra clock watching behavior where if you paid for an hour they will want to end right on the hour, and not give you even a minute more. Because that extra minute is technically unpaid time which means its cheating. So the SO girl will be a strict clock watcher whereas non SO girl may give you an hour 10 minutes, 2 hours or even spend the night with you. Theres even escorts who spend extra time with clients if they dont have someone else booking them later on. But it depends on their chemistry with the particular client and their SO status.
at a certain dollar amount, probably $2000 and up, you can probably arrange OTC with 99% of dancers in the country, but no matter how hot you think she is there is always going to be another dancer somewhere else just as hot, willing to do the same OTC for $300 or $400. And what really matters is their performance level in the OTC not just whether they’ll accept OTC. OTC for some may mean only standard CFS, CBJ and HJ while for others it will include DFK, DATY, BBBJ, CIM etc.
1. Dancers can be flaky about making and keeping plans.
2. Dancers often dangle false or exaggerated promises of "more" to keep customers on the hook.
Ultimately, if you're still having fun ITC then it's fine to just have that. But if you really want OTC (that goes well beyond California rolls...), then you need to ask for exactly what you want. Be polite and respectful, but don't be vague. You will not startle the dancer.
You could do something like saying to her "Send me three dates you're available. I'll figure it out for one at least." See how that works.
Ultimately, though, if you can't solidify OTC, then stop bringing it up and be happy with what you're getting. Also, understand that if she does commit to a "sushi date", she may not show up. So, be prepared for solo sushi.
^Good point. Dancers can be flaky and be a no show.
Tell her you'll meet her at the bar in the restaurant. Also, tell the bar tender that you are waiting for some friends, are the "designated driver" and may possibly get a drink later. If she's a no show, you leave and have lost nothing but some time.
“Still having fun ITC” shouldnt be the only factor to consider… you have to consider the cost spent in relation to the mileage. If you spend $2000 on dances or a private room in any club, you will surely have fun, but you have to consider the cost and the mileage… in this case he said he spent $500-$700 per visit… to any experienced club goer or escort monger those aren’t reasonable amounts to pay just for HJ type services or intense grinding or even DATY for just 10 seconds. $500-$700 should include 10-20+ mins of DATY, 10+ mins of BBBJ, and CFS, potentially DFK, with a fairly attractive, in some cases social media famous girl.
It may still be fun to pay that amount and get HJ services whether OTP or UTP, skin on skin… but its simply too much to pay for that level of service.
Ocam’s razor? Not sure if that’s how you spell it, but the simplest answer is the likely solution. Some guys say “hey, you wanna hook up sometime outside of the club?” No matter what her response is, at least she’ll know you’re not a pussy to ask for what you want.
I’m not sure if this lady has notoriously bad stripper texting or is being evasive, but I’m about ready to go to her club and pay other dancers’ bills without telling her I’m coming in
Focochronic thats actually a good strategy. Show her that if shes not going to communicate. Say whether yes or no or just wants itc. Youll apend elsewhere. Games aren't worth it
" they may very well provide extras, but it will be mechanical extras most of the time and theyll likely do Cbj instead of bbbj." Not in my experience.
"the SO girl will be a strict clock watcher" Not in my experience.
I have close to half a century in this hobby including OTC. I am meeting with four regularly. Two of those have a SO. One had an SO until recently. They are far from mechanical. I am more likely to watch the clock than they are. "Time for you to leave"
52 comments
Latest
When you say ITC and you refer to “better mileage” each time what are you talking about? To me ITC means FS in the VIP and nothing less.
Best bet to see if it is going to happen or not is to skip going to the club and then text her saying you've been too busy to see her at the club but that you'd love to catch up with her outside the club. How she handles that discussion should tell you what her actual intentions are.
From your description, it's not clear that you've been following up adequately. It's not on her to firm up all of the details. You need to present a proposal where all she needs to say is yes or no or, of there's a "maybe", where you can convert it to a "yes".
If she's down for OTC, it won't matter that you weren't proactive before now
Things like this can get expensive real quick…… so stay within your spending comfort zone.
I will play along and comment on your discussion.
Q: Have I been getting strung along the whole time so I keep coming back to the club and she never had any intention of OTC to begin with?
A: I think that yes, you have been.
Q: Did I fuck up by not pulling the trigger immediately?
A: I think that yes, you did,
Q: Could it happen eventually?
A: I think that’s yes, it could happen, if you become the man in the relationship and are willing to pay the price, not only in money, but in time and effort.
You wrote and I quote:
“I can clearly afford her and I would think at this point I’ve demonstrated that I’m not a total creep and I care about her comfort level and boundaries, otherwise things wouldn’t have progressed this far, right?“
I think you might be wrong in thinking/believing that you have demonstrated not to be a creep.
It is really up to her to decide what is her worth to sell you what you want, some girls wont do it with you at any price.
I think you might still have a chance of having sex for money with her, because Informal prostitution is very common in the “modern dating world”.
What I would recommend to you is to first decide what is your ultimate goal?
The TUSCL Glossary definition of OTC as:
Outside The Club - Meeting with a dancer for anything from an after work snack at Denny's to a dinner date to an escort session. Not usually approved of by the club or by many dancers.
However most people in TUSCL expect/want some kind of sexual contact/relationship, who doesn’t?
You have to decide, in advance, if you are interested in her for an OTC “relationship”, as a one night stand, “escort type of session”, develop a sugar baby type of relationship, make make her your girlfriend, future mother of your kids, kept woman, 🏆 trophy wife, dinner date, etc etc etc
Since you said she suggested sushi, the next time she mentions it you should say “I would like to take you for sushi, and I would like to have you for dessert”, and laugh about it.
In my humble opinion and limited experience, I think she appears to be interested in YOU for some reason, (your wallet) but consider yourself lucky that she told YOU she wants to have a “little sushi date” with YOU. It might just be “love (of your wallet) at first sight”...
If you are interested in OTC with her on the long run you can suggest the method/relationship that better works for you for example the P4P method and if it goes well for you two develop a sugar baby type of relationship. it is up to you, whatever you decide, and can comfortably afford.
The most important thing is good communication and clear understanding of what you and her are talking about and agree to do.
I usually let the girl know that I value my time and her time and don’t want to waste her or my time.
As always just remember:
“Nothing ventured, nothing gained”
A sexual/romantic/business pursuit often require to “risk” one of two situations:
1. pursuing when interest is not reciprocated (resulting in rejection)
2. failing to pursue when interest is-may be reciprocated (resulting in a missed opportunity).
Make sure that you let her know that you are interested in a mutually beneficial relationship/arrangement. And let her decide if you are worth her time and effort.
Let’s be careful out there, and don’t fall in love/lust with a stripper, unless she has a heart of gold.
:D
Id tell her ill be too busy with work for a while but that i could definitely meet up for sushi and ask her to let you know with a date. See what she does. Coz she'll miss your money
Its not always a good thing to show you can afford them via spending a ton of money on dances. It can also give the impression youre satisfied with just the dances. And it can lead to them gouging the price on OTC. If you already spent $400 on an hour of dances, they may want even more for an hour of OTC. Vs if you spent $100 on dances a couple times. 2 ITC sessions is enough to move things OTC, otherwise they’re retarded or scamming or have some sort of hangups related to it and it would be a poor experience anyway. If they only provide a CBJ or HJ, id rather just get nothing and keep the money
That's a stupid comment. It makes you sound like a chick pretending to be a guy. Why would this be "business" for you? LOL.
As far as the rest, she's playing a stringalong. You need to stop rewarding it. There are a couple of ways to play it.
You could do what whodey suggested and skip the club for a while, meaning go to another club instead, lol. If she texts, you can respond by saying that you've been very busy, but that you'd love to catch up with her outside the club.
Another option is to go to her club and spend on another girl instead. Personally this has always been my preferred approach. But it's tougher to pull off as you: (1) need to be willing to brush off some static; and (2) have to keep a relaxed and happy posture. Never tell her that it's because she won't see you OTC. Instead just tell her that you're just spreading your wings a bit.
Oh, and if she finally agrees to an OTC adventure, don't let her get away with being vague about date expectations. Make sure she understands that for you a meetup includes a hotel stop after after the sushi meal. Also ask her point blank what she needs for all of that. If she is evasive or non-committal at any point in this process, then she is still just stringing you along.
Good luck!
My question is, does it matter if she's stringing you along? Are you having fun ITC and getting what you feel is good value? Or are you spending your time/money with the express intent of laying the groundwork for an OTC relationship and if that doesn't happen you'll have failed?
A lot of guys here tend to get all worked up about a stripper lying to them. I honestly couldn't care less. If I'm getting what I want, I'm more than willing to let them "hustle" me for months. A lot of guys here also advocate for being explicit about what you want in terms of sex. I'm not a fan of that approach either.
I'd say if you're having fun ITC, why not keep doing it? You can keep nudging towards OTC if that's something you'd also like to try. But if it's not your end goal, who cares if she's lying about it. However, if it is your goal, then I'd agree that it's best to quit beating around the bush and set it up. I wouldn't go so far as to say you want a blow job, or to go down on her, or fuck her. But I'd make it clear that you want to do more than just have a meal. Mention going back to a hotel or your place or whatever. Again, this advice is based on being a bit flexible in your wants. If you'll feel cheated if you don't get a BBBJ, don't take my approach. But if you're a little flexible, I find I get much better, more natural service, at a better price, buy not getting down to the nitty gritty.
You can bring up money, I recommend making an offer that you feel is fair, but you can ask her how much too. Others will disagree, but I find the figure tends to be close to what I'd spend on the room + the tip for ITC. My schedule is somewhat flexible, so I tend to work with them on that part. Ask her if there are days/times that are good for her or offer a few that works for you. Like, "are you usually available on Tuesday afternoons" or something. I like to shoot for day's she'd normally be working at the club, but that tend to be slowest. That way, if I'm offering more than she typically makes in a day, it's easy math to swap out a day at the club for a day with me. I don't wanna waste my Friday night with a stripper, and she probably doesn't either.
Most of the girls I've taken OTC over the years have preferred something direct to hotel. But every so often I come across who that wants to be wined and dined a bit first. As the most recent one put it, she didn't want to "feel like a whore." It's funny how many of these girls are fine with direct hotel meets after that first dinner/fuck date and some actually prefer it. Once you convince them that you don't think of them as whores, you can treat them as such pretty much every time after. 😉
The dinner is the absolute least of it. Shes using it to create rapport. Like an inside thing between the two of you.
Ive had girls act like that and ive told them they dont have to play games coz im not into that childish shit. Just be real with me. Most get offended. Which is fine with me. I understand they do it because it works and secures them a bag. But i think its borderline humiliating to be played like that.
1. go into the club. tell her you want ITCS FS (or whatever you want OTC) tonight. See what happens.
2. if #1 is a success, text her the next saying "let's meet OTC for more of what we did ITC", be specific about the date. She'll commit or not, and you will know.
easy peasey
Those numbers you mentioned are far too high even if she sucked the tip and let you DATY briefly. $500 should include a 10 minute BBBJ and as much DATY as you want and full service.
The other issue is youre dealing with an industry where scams and thefts are extremely prevalent. Due to the illegal or semi legal nature of the sex work/escort/OTC stripper industry, the rates of scams and thefts are far far higher than the general population.
Even if you get a girl to a hotel room, she could just decide to scam and refuse to provide service. Would you be willing to fight and take back your money by force in that scenario… or otherwise avoid those scenarios by paying her only after the service has been provided. A lot of them may not be okay with being paid after service
* "I would consider dick out to be UHM" - most would not agree.
* "I can always ask her in person if we can do more ITC." - good idea.
* "I have no idea if she has an SO and I don’t care to ask" - this should be 100% irrelevant to both of you.
* "I’ll be direct over text and put the ball in her court to give me a definitive answer" - good idea.
* "The purpose of SCing is to enjoy oneself, right?" - hell yes!
...and finally "I’m doing alright." I agree. Anytime you have a hottie wiggling in your lap you're doing better than the average joe on the average night.
Poon on and keep us appraised of your progress!
Still, even if it doesnt work out, its still a learning experience, many may have gone through something similar when starting clubbing
Remember
“In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.”
~ Cuban refugee Tony Montana (Al Pacino) in the movie Scarface (1983)
Since you said you can afford her…
I would refer you to Demosthenes (384 – 12 October 322 BC)
~ Greek statesman and orator of ancient Athens.
1. We have courtesans for the sake of pleasure.
2. Concubines for the daily health of our bodies, and
3. Wives to bear us lawful offspring and be the faithful guardians of our homes
In this list is the Greek view of woman in the classic age.
In today’s world Demosthenes would say:
We have:
1. High end escorts, centerfolds, actresses, models, Strippers (ITC OTC) etc that provide PSE/GFE for the sake of pleasure.
2. Mistresses/Sugar Babies/Concubines; etc, for the daily health of our bodies.
3. Trophy Girlfriends/Wives to bear us lawful offspring, and be the faithful guardians of our homes.
4. Realistic Sex Dolls/Gynoids/Fembots, and Internet Porn and Instagram/Onlyfans “Models”, for kicks-and-giggles”.
5. Street walkers and 304s for when you are horny, drunk, high, depressed, bipolar or just plain stupid and crazy, poor and miserable and can’t afford anything else.
Historically It is the same all over the world…
If you have the money and can afford her and possibly many others, buy what you can comfortably afford and enjoy all of it,
if you don’t have the money or you can’t afford it economically, mentally, morally, emotionally, physically, intellectually etc etc etc then don’t buy things you can’t afford…
Let’s be careful out there there.
:D
stop with game. Ask her. Clearly tell her you want to meet up OTC, why you want to meet up, when, where and how much you are offering.
As for dancers with a SO not providing ITC or OTC extras, I've had dancers call me up for a meet up because they need some extra cash to buy their BF a present.
the most common justification is that this isn't cheating, it is work. Second most common is she will do extras until he steps up and starts paying all of her bills.
She gets these offers often and will not be offended.
I hope this one says yes to you. if not, i hope the rejection helps you realize, there is no downside to asking. the worst that happens is she says no. You then continue as you were, or you move on to find someone else. Your choice.
1. Try to setup the "sushi" date. But you, not her, suggest the location of the "sushi" restaurant. Pick a restaurant where it's cheaper and not too expensive. Get her reaction. Is she interested in only the expensive restaurants or is she satisfied with your choice? Her reaction will provide insight on her intentions.
2. Remember the "law of diminishing returns" applies here. Don't think that the more you spend either ITC or OTC will mean you'll have proportionally more fun. You'll have to find that sweet spot where the amount you spend is in balance with the amount of your fun.
3. You'll have to make your intentions known, but start off slowly with something easy and simple, such as a hj, so she feels secure and comfortable. Don't waste money on a hotel, at this time. It's not needed. And when talking about a hj, don't mention money. Wait for her reaction, so you can gauge whether she may be a good for more fun.
4. If there was good vibe on the "sushi" date, follow-up with another date and reveal more of your intentions, following the above paradigm.
Also you mentioned another good point, they dont consider it cheating because its work and business.
That’s true, and it leads to ultra clock watching behavior where if you paid for an hour they will want to end right on the hour, and not give you even a minute more. Because that extra minute is technically unpaid time which means its cheating. So the SO girl will be a strict clock watcher whereas non SO girl may give you an hour 10 minutes, 2 hours or even spend the night with you. Theres even escorts who spend extra time with clients if they dont have someone else booking them later on. But it depends on their chemistry with the particular client and their SO status.
1. Dancers can be flaky about making and keeping plans.
2. Dancers often dangle false or exaggerated promises of "more" to keep customers on the hook.
Ultimately, if you're still having fun ITC then it's fine to just have that. But if you really want OTC (that goes well beyond California rolls...), then you need to ask for exactly what you want. Be polite and respectful, but don't be vague. You will not startle the dancer.
You could do something like saying to her "Send me three dates you're available. I'll figure it out for one at least." See how that works.
Ultimately, though, if you can't solidify OTC, then stop bringing it up and be happy with what you're getting. Also, understand that if she does commit to a "sushi date", she may not show up. So, be prepared for solo sushi.
Tell her you'll meet her at the bar in the restaurant. Also, tell the bar tender that you are waiting for some friends, are the "designated driver" and may possibly get a drink later. If she's a no show, you leave and have lost nothing but some time.
Directly ask her to go.
If she says yes just wait for her to text you shes on her way and leave at the same time.
You don't need to contrive stories for any restaurant staff. Its none of their business.
If she cancels more than once then ignore her. Or just stick to ITC.
Its all in your hands and its easy AF
$500-$700 should include 10-20+ mins of DATY, 10+ mins of BBBJ, and CFS, potentially DFK, with a fairly attractive, in some cases social media famous girl.
It may still be fun to pay that amount and get HJ services whether OTP or UTP, skin on skin… but its simply too much to pay for that level of service.
"the SO girl will be a strict clock watcher" Not in my experience.
I have close to half a century in this hobby including OTC. I am meeting with four regularly. Two of those have a SO. One had an SO until recently. They are far from mechanical. I am more likely to watch the clock than they are. "Time for you to leave"
As always, YMMV