Trying to make OTC happen, what do y’all think?
I’ll start by saying I’m new to this whole scene and have very little experience. However, I’ve been to the same club a handful of times and I’m building good rapport with a dancer, I would say. The first night we met, she gave me her number. I always keep it strictly business, I tell her when I get home safe and be sure to thank her again for a nice time. Aside from that, I only text to confirm when she’s working so we can setup ITC. The second time I visit her, she actually brings up OTC first and mentions grabbing sushi sometime. I try to play it cool and nothing ends up getting setup. I schedule a third time to meet her ITC, she brings up OTC again, I tell her I’d like to take her out, but still, nothing gets solidified. I see her a fourth time ITC and she mentions “our little sushi date”, as she calls it and I give a specific day that I’m free to take her out. She’s unsure of the day and there is still nothing set in stone. However, every time we plan to see each other ITC, I get progressively better mileage, she says and does sweeter and sweeter things and opens up more about personal stuff. She obviously knows how much I spend, I can clearly afford her and I would think at this point I’ve demonstrated that I’m not a total creep and I care about her comfort level and boundaries, otherwise things wouldn’t have progressed this far, right? I believe I’ve conveyed that I’m not trying to be her boyfriend, I just like having fun with her and I appreciate her time and attention. What do y’all think? Have I been getting strung along the whole time so I keep coming back to the club and she never had any intention of OTC to begin with? Maybe she’s just a really good stripper and can convincingly sell it without actually selling it. Did I fuck up by not pulling the trigger immediately? Could it happen eventually? Any input is welcome, feel free to ask for more details.
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When you say ITC and you refer to “better mileage” each time what are you talking about? To me ITC means FS in the VIP and nothing less.
Best bet to see if it is going to happen or not is to skip going to the club and then text her saying you've been too busy to see her at the club but that you'd love to catch up with her outside the club. How she handles that discussion should tell you what her actual intentions are.
From your description, it's not clear that you've been following up adequately. It's not on her to firm up all of the details. You need to present a proposal where all she needs to say is yes or no or, of there's a "maybe", where you can convert it to a "yes".
If she's down for OTC, it won't matter that you weren't proactive before now
Things like this can get expensive real quick…… so stay within your spending comfort zone.
I will play along and comment on your discussion.
Q: Have I been getting strung along the whole time so I keep coming back to the club and she never had any intention of OTC to begin with?
A: I think that yes, you have been.
Q: Did I fuck up by not pulling the trigger immediately?
A: I think that yes, you did,
Q: Could it happen eventually?
A: I think that’s yes, it could happen, if you become the man in the relationship and are willing to pay the price, not only in money, but in time and effort.
You wrote and I quote:
“I can clearly afford her and I would think at this point I’ve demonstrated that I’m not a total creep and I care about her comfort level and boundaries, otherwise things wouldn’t have progressed this far, right?“
I think you might be wrong in thinking/believing that you have demonstrated not to be a creep.
It is really up to her to decide what is her worth to sell you what you want, some girls wont do it with you at any price.
I think you might still have a chance of having sex for money with her, because Informal prostitution is very common in the “modern dating world”.
What I would recommend to you is to first decide what is your ultimate goal?
The TUSCL Glossary definition of OTC as:
Outside The Club - Meeting with a dancer for anything from an after work snack at Denny's to a dinner date to an escort session. Not usually approved of by the club or by many dancers.
However most people in TUSCL expect/want some kind of sexual contact/relationship, who doesn’t?
You have to decide, in advance, if you are interested in her for an OTC “relationship”, as a one night stand, “escort type of session”, develop a sugar baby type of relationship, make make her your girlfriend, future mother of your kids, kept woman, 🏆 trophy wife, dinner date, etc etc etc
Since you said she suggested sushi, the next time she mentions it you should say “I would like to take you for sushi, and I would like to have you for dessert”, and laugh about it.
In my humble opinion and limited experience, I think she appears to be interested in YOU for some reason, (your wallet) but consider yourself lucky that she told YOU she wants to have a “little sushi date” with YOU. It might just be “love (of your wallet) at first sight”...
If you are interested in OTC with her on the long run you can suggest the method/relationship that better works for you for example the P4P method and if it goes well for you two develop a sugar baby type of relationship. it is up to you, whatever you decide, and can comfortably afford.
The most important thing is good communication and clear understanding of what you and her are talking about and agree to do.
I usually let the girl know that I value my time and her time and don’t want to waste her or my time.
As always just remember:
“Nothing ventured, nothing gained”
A sexual/romantic/business pursuit often require to “risk” one of two situations:
1. pursuing when interest is not reciprocated (resulting in rejection)
2. failing to pursue when interest is-may be reciprocated (resulting in a missed opportunity).
Make sure that you let her know that you are interested in a mutually beneficial relationship/arrangement. And let her decide if you are worth her time and effort.
Let’s be careful out there, and don’t fall in love/lust with a stripper, unless she has a heart of gold.
:D
Id tell her ill be too busy with work for a while but that i could definitely meet up for sushi and ask her to let you know with a date. See what she does. Coz she'll miss your money
Its not always a good thing to show you can afford them via spending a ton of money on dances. It can also give the impression youre satisfied with just the dances. And it can lead to them gouging the price on OTC. If you already spent $400 on an hour of dances, they may want even more for an hour of OTC. Vs if you spent $100 on dances a couple times. 2 ITC sessions is enough to move things OTC, otherwise they’re retarded or scamming or have some sort of hangups related to it and it would be a poor experience anyway. If they only provide a CBJ or HJ, id rather just get nothing and keep the money
That's a stupid comment. It makes you sound like a chick pretending to be a guy. Why would this be "business" for you? LOL.
As far as the rest, she's playing a stringalong. You need to stop rewarding it. There are a couple of ways to play it.
You could do what whodey suggested and skip the club for a while, meaning go to another club instead, lol. If she texts, you can respond by saying that you've been very busy, but that you'd love to catch up with her outside the club.
Another option is to go to her club and spend on another girl instead. Personally this has always been my preferred approach. But it's tougher to pull off as you: (1) need to be willing to brush off some static; and (2) have to keep a relaxed and happy posture. Never tell her that it's because she won't see you OTC. Instead just tell her that you're just spreading your wings a bit.
Oh, and if she finally agrees to an OTC adventure, don't let her get away with being vague about date expectations. Make sure she understands that for you a meetup includes a hotel stop after after the sushi meal. Also ask her point blank what she needs for all of that. If she is evasive or non-committal at any point in this process, then she is still just stringing you along.
Good luck!
My question is, does it matter if she's stringing you along? Are you having fun ITC and getting what you feel is good value? Or are you spending your time/money with the express intent of laying the groundwork for an OTC relationship and if that doesn't happen you'll have failed?
A lot of guys here tend to get all worked up about a stripper lying to them. I honestly couldn't care less. If I'm getting what I want, I'm more than willing to let them "hustle" me for months. A lot of guys here also advocate for being explicit about what you want in terms of sex. I'm not a fan of that approach either.
I'd say if you're having fun ITC, why not keep doing it? You can keep nudging towards OTC if that's something you'd also like to try. But if it's not your end goal, who cares if she's lying about it. However, if it is your goal, then I'd agree that it's best to quit beating around the bush and set it up. I wouldn't go so far as to say you want a blow job, or to go down on her, or fuck her. But I'd make it clear that you want to do more than just have a meal. Mention going back to a hotel or your place or whatever. Again, this advice is based on being a bit flexible in your wants. If you'll feel cheated if you don't get a BBBJ, don't take my approach. But if you're a little flexible, I find I get much better, more natural service, at a better price, buy not getting down to the nitty gritty.
You can bring up money, I recommend making an offer that you feel is fair, but you can ask her how much too. Others will disagree, but I find the figure tends to be close to what I'd spend on the room + the tip for ITC. My schedule is somewhat flexible, so I tend to work with them on that part. Ask her if there are days/times that are good for her or offer a few that works for you. Like, "are you usually available on Tuesday afternoons" or something. I like to shoot for day's she'd normally be working at the club, but that tend to be slowest. That way, if I'm offering more than she typically makes in a day, it's easy math to swap out a day at the club for a day with me. I don't wanna waste my Friday night with a stripper, and she probably doesn't either.
Most of the girls I've taken OTC over the years have preferred something direct to hotel. But every so often I come across who that wants to be wined and dined a bit first. As the most recent one put it, she didn't want to "feel like a whore." It's funny how many of these girls are fine with direct hotel meets after that first dinner/fuck date and some actually prefer it. Once you convince them that you don't think of them as whores, you can treat them as such pretty much every time after. 😉
The dinner is the absolute least of it. Shes using it to create rapport. Like an inside thing between the two of you.
Ive had girls act like that and ive told them they dont have to play games coz im not into that childish shit. Just be real with me. Most get offended. Which is fine with me. I understand they do it because it works and secures them a bag. But i think its borderline humiliating to be played like that.
1. go into the club. tell her you want ITCS FS (or whatever you want OTC) tonight. See what happens.
2. if #1 is a success, text her the next saying "let's meet OTC for more of what we did ITC", be specific about the date. She'll commit or not, and you will know.
easy peasey
Those numbers you mentioned are far too high even if she sucked the tip and let you DATY briefly. $500 should include a 10 minute BBBJ and as much DATY as you want and full service.
The other issue is youre dealing with an industry where scams and thefts are extremely prevalent. Due to the illegal or semi legal nature of the sex work/escort/OTC stripper industry, the rates of scams and thefts are far far higher than the general population.
Even if you get a girl to a hotel room, she could just decide to scam and refuse to provide service. Would you be willing to fight and take back your money by force in that scenario… or otherwise avoid those scenarios by paying her only after the service has been provided. A lot of them may not be okay with being paid after service
* "I would consider dick out to be UHM" - most would not agree.
* "I can always ask her in person if we can do more ITC." - good idea.
* "I have no idea if she has an SO and I don’t care to ask" - this should be 100% irrelevant to both of you.
* "I’ll be direct over text and put the ball in her court to give me a definitive answer" - good idea.
* "The purpose of SCing is to enjoy oneself, right?" - hell yes!
...and finally "I’m doing alright." I agree. Anytime you have a hottie wiggling in your lap you're doing better than the average joe on the average night.
Poon on and keep us appraised of your progress!
Still, even if it doesnt work out, its still a learning experience, many may have gone through something similar when starting clubbing
Remember
“In this country, you gotta make the money first.
Then when you get the money, you get the power.
Then when you get the power, then you get the women.”
~ Cuban refugee Tony Montana (Al Pacino) in the movie Scarface (1983)
Since you said you can afford her…
I would refer you to Demosthenes (384 – 12 October 322 BC)
~ Greek statesman and orator of ancient Athens.
1. We have courtesans for the sake of pleasure.
2. Concubines for the daily health of our bodies, and
3. Wives to bear us lawful offspring and be the faithful guardians of our homes
In this list is the Greek view of woman in the classic age.
In today’s world Demosthenes would say:
We have:
1. High end escorts, centerfolds, actresses, models, Strippers (ITC OTC) etc that provide PSE/GFE for the sake of pleasure.
2. Mistresses/Sugar Babies/Concubines; etc, for the daily health of our bodies.
3. Trophy Girlfriends/Wives to bear us lawful offspring, and be the faithful guardians of our homes.
4. Realistic Sex Dolls/Gynoids/Fembots, and Internet Porn and Instagram/Onlyfans “Models”, for kicks-and-giggles”.
5. Street walkers and 304s for when you are horny, drunk, high, depressed, bipolar or just plain stupid and crazy, poor and miserable and can’t afford anything else.
Historically It is the same all over the world…
If you have the money and can afford her and possibly many others, buy what you can comfortably afford and enjoy all of it,
if you don’t have the money or you can’t afford it economically, mentally, morally, emotionally, physically, intellectually etc etc etc then don’t buy things you can’t afford…
Let’s be careful out there there.
:D
stop with game. Ask her. Clearly tell her you want to meet up OTC, why you want to meet up, when, where and how much you are offering.
As for dancers with a SO not providing ITC or OTC extras, I've had dancers call me up for a meet up because they need some extra cash to buy their BF a present.
the most common justification is that this isn't cheating, it is work. Second most common is she will do extras until he steps up and starts paying all of her bills.
She gets these offers often and will not be offended.
I hope this one says yes to you. if not, i hope the rejection helps you realize, there is no downside to asking. the worst that happens is she says no. You then continue as you were, or you move on to find someone else. Your choice.
1. Try to setup the "sushi" date. But you, not her, suggest the location of the "sushi" restaurant. Pick a restaurant where it's cheaper and not too expensive. Get her reaction. Is she interested in only the expensive restaurants or is she satisfied with your choice? Her reaction will provide insight on her intentions.
2. Remember the "law of diminishing returns" applies here. Don't think that the more you spend either ITC or OTC will mean you'll have proportionally more fun. You'll have to find that sweet spot where the amount you spend is in balance with the amount of your fun.
3. You'll have to make your intentions known, but start off slowly with something easy and simple, such as a hj, so she feels secure and comfortable. Don't waste money on a hotel, at this time. It's not needed. And when talking about a hj, don't mention money. Wait for her reaction, so you can gauge whether she may be a good for more fun.
4. If there was good vibe on the "sushi" date, follow-up with another date and reveal more of your intentions, following the above paradigm.
Also you mentioned another good point, they dont consider it cheating because its work and business.
That’s true, and it leads to ultra clock watching behavior where if you paid for an hour they will want to end right on the hour, and not give you even a minute more. Because that extra minute is technically unpaid time which means its cheating. So the SO girl will be a strict clock watcher whereas non SO girl may give you an hour 10 minutes, 2 hours or even spend the night with you. Theres even escorts who spend extra time with clients if they dont have someone else booking them later on. But it depends on their chemistry with the particular client and their SO status.
1. Dancers can be flaky about making and keeping plans.
2. Dancers often dangle false or exaggerated promises of "more" to keep customers on the hook.
Ultimately, if you're still having fun ITC then it's fine to just have that. But if you really want OTC (that goes well beyond California rolls...), then you need to ask for exactly what you want. Be polite and respectful, but don't be vague. You will not startle the dancer.
You could do something like saying to her "Send me three dates you're available. I'll figure it out for one at least." See how that works.
Ultimately, though, if you can't solidify OTC, then stop bringing it up and be happy with what you're getting. Also, understand that if she does commit to a "sushi date", she may not show up. So, be prepared for solo sushi.