Inflation and Price Gouging
wld4tatas
New Jersey
I think this move is smart.
This debate has been brewing for awhile. But up until now, Dems haven't done much to counter the messaging from the right that inflation is all Joe Biden's fault (and now Harris' too) because of their bad policies. Obviously that's a simpleton message for low information voters. Inflation is a complex and multi-faceted issue. Now that this idea of corporate price gouging is out there in a big way, I expect we'll see a spotlight on it with plenty of discussion. There is almost certainly some truth to it, Dems are big on these types of economic analyses and wouldn't have moved on it without supporting data.
What will emerge from all this attention I expect, is a better understanding that inflation isn't so simple, and that indeed, average Americans have been paying more for groceries to pad corporate profits.
So the next time Trump does some presser with a bunch of Cheerios cereal boxes on display, while Trump is rambling on about Harris and Biden, more viewers will be thinking about the corporations too.
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120 comments
I'm actually offended that the Dens think we are stupid enough to fall for this. Sadly, though, many ARE stupid enough to fall for it.
Things aren’t adding up. Places like five guys, cheesecake factory, and i think even mcdonalds, have been constantly raising prices on their beef containing items and other items, since 2019 or 2020.
Yet you go to the grocery store, and the prices of things like milk, cheese, beef, have remained pretty much exactly the same.
So there is an element of dishonesty involved when places like five guys or mcdonalds claim they are raising prices due to rising material costs or inflation.
The only thing that has really gone up in price is gas prices. I think these restaurants are basically trying to push things as far as they can. They understand that fast food and restaurant dining is a matter of convenience, and luxury. And theyve found that even as they raise prices, people continue paying those higher prices.
The democrats plan will just lead to more inflation.
Building 3m homes will cause building materials and labor costs to rise.
Price controls on food leads to lower production and inflation.
And so on and so on. The only way to squash inflation is through demand destruction or massive increases in supply efficiency
Politically, she's playing to a younger, enthusiastic, and entitled base that lacks real world experience. It gives them someone to blame, and deflect from the fact that she was #2 in the most powerful country in the world for the last 3.5 years. It might convince the low-information voters who are just starting to tune in now. They're out there. But we've already heard this line of attack--it didn't work to sell "Bidenomics."
Yes, corporate profits have gone up, but (1) a lot of that is the result of government distortions, including regulations and subsidies. "Too big to fail" isn't just for banks. Amazon and Wal-Mart played critical roles in the pandemic, not to mention they have the ears of politicians. Meanwhile, mom and pop businesses got screwed, and (2) corporations have always increased prices to what the market can bear. They didn't just do it during Biden's term to spite him. Supermarkets operate on very thin margins anyways. (3) I agree that they should start getting more aggressively enforcing antitrust, but why haven't they been doing that already?
"Dems are big on these types of economic analyses and wouldn't have moved on it without supporting data."
LOL no. It might be smart politics but this is dogshit economics. Paul Krugman has been wrong on everything for decades now; he's effectively a liberal columnist and rationalizer.
No one could pass Intro to Economics without learning that price controls lead to shortages. That $25k in down payment assistance tells sellers they can hike the price by $25k. That so many Americans are "house-poor" (have a disproportionate amount of wealth in the value of their homes) that anything that lowers their housing values will get them murdered at the ballot box.
And that inflation isn't that complex--too much money chasing too few goods. Trump bears some blame, but he spent during an artificial drop in demand, without which we would have deflation. It's hard to dial up just the right amount of inflation (2% according to economics experts).
But Biden saw this money trickling in--if his advisors weren't stupid, they should have known this alone might generate inflation--and threw kerosene on the flames. A lot of it wasn't even related to the pandemic. Dems lose all sense of restraint when the word "green" gets tossed around, and threw more at that.
Then, those advisors started lying out their fat mouths. From "inflation isn't happening" to "inflation is transitory" to "inflation is only hitting the rich" to "inflation is actually a good thing" to "inflation was caused by everyone but us."
Now it's "we brought inflation down." That's like saying "I weighed 200 pounds in 2020, I put on 20 in 2021, 10 in 2022, 7 in 2023, and 3 in 2024, so I slowed my rate of weight gain." Well, you're still 240 pounds rather than 200!
Hey, Janet Yellen even said "nobody saw inflation coming." Lying bitch, I and many others saw inflation coming and invested accordingly. I'm a highly educated man but I'm sure Yellen had more education than I did. Only conclusion is she's become a PR flak for the administration, not an economist.
I still think Trump wins, as Harris is forced to stake out policy platforms like this that even Obama administration officials are denouncing. The Democrat stans are going gaga over it, but Harris could queef into the mic and they'd still go gaga over it.
But if she does win, thankfully we're looking at a likely Republican Senate (the map is horrible for Dems this year) and House that will blunt this nonsense. And a Supreme Court that Democrats loved when it rubber stamped progressive priorities...less so now.
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Don’t know how old the OP is, but guessing he wasn’t around the last time this was attempted. (Early 70’s)
Total disaster
3,000,000 new housing units- just deport the 10,000,000 illegals you let in and gave free housing to and there will be a 7,000,000 unit surplus
New child tax credit- paying unemployed welfare leeches more money to have more children has already caused enough problems
Crackdown on grocery price gouging- this is transfer of blame for the Biden-Harris- democrat party inflation disaster. These bureaucrats have no idea how business works and how thin margins are in the competitive groceries market. The result will be scarcity, failed mom and pop stores, and rising unemployment as the few remaining stores consolidate under corporations and automate as fully as possible. Quality and availability will plummet and another pillar of our standard of living will be demolished by the liberal left.
Why is it no surprise that wld4testes would be the first to come out and suck Kammy's ass to promote what even CNN has blasted as an awful idea.
Forcing price controls without dealing with any of those issues will just cause corporations to stop producing
Executing them would reduce costs even more.
Credit to Puddy Tat
“ That $25k in down payment assistance tells sellers they can hike the price by $25k. That so many Americans are "house-poor" (have a disproportionate amount of wealth in the value of their homes) that anything that lowers their housing values will get them murdered at the ballot box.”
Would the seller of a house raise their price by 25k if you told them the government or your uncle is covering 25k…? They wouldnt care… as long as they get their asking price
If everyone gets 25k, theres more dollars and spending power available, which can raise demand and raise the money supply. But its nowhere near as simple as people being given 25k, therefore house prices instantly go up 25k.
If a seller has a house listed at 750k, and they learn people are being given 25k free, they would have to be an absolute buffoon of a seller to raise their price to 775k in response.
We don't have specific details yet, so it's wayyy premature to be drawing conclusions. Harris is just painting broad strokes at this point - penalties for large food and grocery corporations that engage in price gouging to pad their profits, and support for smaller food businesses that are trying to get ahead.
We can already see this stimulating some actual real discussion on policy, which no doubt was part of the purpose, and what I referred to as smart. It moves the discussion past the moronic right wing talking point "It's all Biden/Harris' fault". We can't say the policy itself is smart yet because it will depend on the details which will get debated and sorted out.
Of course, Harris needs to show that price gouging in the food industry is real, and that her proposal is not some empty populist gimmick. I expect we will be learning much more about this.
@RMD - be quiet when the adults are talking.
The USSR had bread and toilet paper lines with their wage/price controls. The USSR after about 70 years.
In the early 1990s, Venezuela was one the richest per capita countries in the world and a huge OPEC oil supplier. Once Chavez was voted in, and then nationalized oil production an others, it became a shit hole country. And, now Maduro gets re-elected for what the 3x time, and was down 25% in polling then announced he won with "51%" hours after polls closed.
Cuba: Castro's Revolution offered so "much" when he took over in the 1950s - my sister-in-law was a Peter Pan Baby (look it up). Now, Cuba is known for cigars and 1950s Chevys.
Getting into Socialism is easy. Getting out is not. This is how it happens, and we are on that slippery slope. Voting for Harris is like asking an arson for help putting out fires. Leopards don't change their spots - this goes for Harris, Walz and the Democrat Machine.
The only details that would make this palatable are "we're going to enforce antitrust like I should have started 3.5 years ago and not implement a single price control."
Given their catastrophic consequences of similar actions in the past, the basic laws of economics, and the only definition of "price gouging" being "whatever I think is unfair," the burden of proof lies on her to show this won't be a cluster fuck.
She doesn't seem to want to get into specifics anywhere (other than taking Trump proposals like no tax on tips or an even greater child tax credit) because she's essentially a cipher for Dems to project their hopes and dreams on.
Trump needs to make her account for every hard left proposal she espoused in her first run. Green New Deal (aka Green Leap Forward). Abolition of private health insurance. Defending the police. Banning fracking (which would lose her Pennsylvania).
If I were running Trump's campaign I would nail her to the wall on that. And question her "evolution" on such topics which always seems to come right before a general election. I don't believe her for a New York minute.
Always been the case, @funontheside, but the way the Democrats talk, they've only become "greedy" to spite Biden.
You said it right brother!!!
To note, the prices of your Cheerios are not going back down, get used to it, those prices are here to stay. All these “wage increases” many people received in the last 4 years hasn’t even enabled them to keep up with all the inflation. Are you better off than now than you were in 2019?
That would be the equivalent of a seller listing a house for 750k, then, after finding out your grandpa is giving you 100k to help purchase the house, they change their price to 850k. Only a complete buffoon of a seller would do something like that.
Your response to the OP was good. Balanced. I liked it. (I'm a fiscal conservative)
And I know you are looking for my approval. :)
I graduated with zero student loan debt. Where’s my equitable bailout?
I didn’t get $25k for buying my home. Where’s my equitable reward.
Correct - price controls are not socialism but it is a flawed economic policy that has a proven track record of failure.
We need that “like” button back.
Simple formula. If you can’t talk about your policies - you buy votes.
25K for first time home buyers. What she really means is the illegals as they cross the border from Mexico will be handed a 25K voucher because obviously they don't own a home. Everyone else will have to jump through hoops and will most likely be disqualified unless they belong to some alphabet minority group.
Excellent spot on comment!
and just to play Devil’s Advocate - George Wallace was a Democrat (except for his 1968 run as an independent).
^ I’m not changing the subject, just pointing it out to everyone who gives a fuck.
I’m not particularly interested in this subject, probably because I’m spending money not hoarding it any more, plus there’s so much misinformation in this thread that it’s impossible to find anything here that is economically useful.
P. S. You’ve not even read Orwell’s book ‘1984’
You don’t even know what it’s about, like all of your moronic posts you don’t know what the fuck your talking about.
I'll assume Puddy Tat is thus highly supportive of the FTC antitrust effort mentioned in the article below.
US sues to block merger of grocery giants Kroger and Albertsons, saying it could push prices higher
February 26, 2024
https://apnews.com/article/kroger-albert…
Awwww and i'm so broke up about that testesboi.
fact is i know you're reading what i post but you still show your weakness by proclaiming you have me ignored. Lol
OK go back to sticking your head in the sand shitbrain.
I don't know the relative market power of the two entrants, but in theory, yes. Food producers too have gotten to the point where 3-4 giants control everything.
Bullshit, we got Trump out of power once.
A "land acknowledgement."
"Reproductive justice means Palestinian liberation." (stupid fucks, abortion is ILLEGAL IN PALESTINE)
They're literally offering free vasectomies and abortions outside the convention center.
They're activating the National Guard and police, in order to protect the left from the left.
Store owners have boarded up stores.
I can only imagine what tonight, and the next few days, will bring!
I don’t hate anyone not even you, what I do is pity you, you’re a genuine weirdo, for a supposedly young man you have very few friends and here, you have a reputation as a jackass.
Sterilize the dumb fucks so they won't breed sounds.good to me.
So as far as the 25k tax credit, the sooner you buy the more you benefit. Home prices would rise by a certain % amount based on the level of inflation. It certainly wouldnt be as simplistic as all house prices going up by 25k each.
Only because Mike Pence didn't yield to the pressure from Trump and did the right thing. That won't happen again with Vance.
Whatever. I guess they were a few more grandma's in wheelchairs from turning America into an authoritarian state.
Albertsons wants to issue a $4 billion ‘special dividend.’ Critics call it ‘looting.’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/…
Capitalism, profits and getting rich are good things, but a $4B special dividend at a time of record inflation in groceries is beyond the pale, and clear evidence of what funonthaside said earlier... "companies are raising prices because they believe that they can get away with it".
When Republicans talk about inflation, remember that your higher grocery bills are supporting additional payouts to the corporate executives and hedge funds who are the largest shareholders in giant companies like Albertsons.
How many people have stopped/reduced visits to restaurants once prices increased? McDonald's recently learned the lesson the hard way. There are others, as well. There have been multiple cases recently where I was going to buy something, then changed my mind after considering the excessive cost.
I suppose a dancer would rather spend 4 minutes doing a $60 than to spend 12 minutes to make the same amount at $20/song. But, at the lower price point, I likely wouldn't stop at 3 songs, so the dancer would earn more.
One example is La Pearl in Philly. I regularly turn away the $10 girls, as I know there will be $5 girls coming along behind her. One particularly intelligent girl countered with "ok...I'll agree to $5....if you get at least 4 songs of dances". I ended up getting far more than 4 songs....so I got my $5 dances, and she made a good amount of money. Meanhile, the $10 girls were playing with their phones while my girl was making money.
One topic that is a bit more tough is price gouging during an emergency such as a hurricane. There is/was a gas station near Detroit airport than was charged with price gouging, as they had higher prices than some competitors due to their closest proximity to the airport. Well, most people were onto them, and simply chose to purchase gas elsewhere. Of others didn't have the foresight to use a gas pricing app to sing cheaper gas, that's on the customers. Why shouldn't the gas station be rewarded for operating in an advantageous location? There was no reason for government. interference.
Wal-mart, Target, Publix, and Winn-Dixie are the four big players in my area.
We have membership clubs like CostCo, BJ's, and Sam's club. There is also Fresh Market and Whole Foods. The longer I sit here, the more I will think of. The point is that the market is too saturated with competition for price gouging. It is an idiotic statement.
Even in a "food desert", the big chains have legal counsel which will protect the brand and organization from a price gouging claim and prohibit individual stores from deviating from whatever market-relevant pricing brackets have been determined market research and purchasing.
Prices are up, but that is because of post-pandemic and supply chain inflation, $15-$20 minimum wage laws, the Biden/Harris war on fuel, rising insurance costs, rising interest rates on business loans, and not because of corporate greed. It is a populist applause line that would have catastrophic effects on the nation if ever enacted into policy. It just shows how ignorant and desperate for headlines the Kammy campaign really is.
Price gouging is basically capitalist cannibalism. They're pricing themselves out of business. And society is collapsing because you can't have a consumer society where no one can afford to consume.
No politician will do anything because the gov gets increased tax revenue and the private sector owns the gov
We need to build housing over the NIMBYs and enforce antitrust.
Of course Harris wants to pretend like she had nothing to do with the problems of the last 3.5 years.
Right wing what if scenarios don't dictate present day reality
Let me explain in terms you'd understand. If the government capped the price of crack whores, there wouldn't be enough degenerate druggie pimps to supply them to customers.
And whoever icee is really lives in your head. You're as obsessed with him as you are with trans women and the alt right.
I'm sure all of you see the impact of profiteering on clubs. When people barely have disposable income anymore
"Despite the frequent use of price controls, however, and despite their appeal, economists are generally opposed to them, except perhaps for very brief periods during emergencies."
"Because controls prevent the price system from rationing the available supply, some other mechanism must take its place. A queue, once a familiar sight in the controlled economies of Eastern Europe, is one possibility. When the United States set maximum prices for gasoline in 1973 and 1979, dealers sold gas on a first-come-first-served basis, and drivers had to wait in long lines to buy gasoline, receiving in the process a taste of life in the Soviet Union."
"The incentives to evade controls are ever present, and the forms that evasion can take are limitless."
"Not only do producers have an incentive to raise prices, but some consumers also have an incentive to pay them. The result may be payments on the side to distributors (a bribe for the superintendent of a rent-controlled building, for example), or it may be a full-fledged black market in which goods are bought and sold clandestinely."
"The obvious costs of queuing, evasion, and black markets often lead governments to impose some form of rationing."
"With all of the problems generated by controls, we can well ask why they are ever imposed and why they are sometimes maintained for so long. The answer, in part, is that the public does not always see the links between controls and the problems they create."
"However, most inflation, even in wartime, is due to inflationary monetary and fiscal policies rather than to panic buying."
"Inflation is extremely difficult to contain through general controls, in part because the attempt to limit control to a manageable sector of the economy is usually hopeless."
https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Pric…
Hmm, tough one, Icee.
And again please. Stop obsessing over icee whoever that is. You sound delusional calling me icee.
I wouldn't anyone to know I were you, either. But we do.
You are Icee. So I call you that. I wouldn't want me to remember you either.
Also price gouging only works if all the producers of the item work with each other in unison. Or, it works for products that are difficult to recreate or cant be recreated. Usually products protected by patent laws. For instance pokemon cards, even though theyre pieces of cardboard… can become very valuable because of artificially restricting the supply. Many of the watch brands, car brands can similarly restrict supply.
But a milk seller cant. Even if all the grocery stores worked together, if prices rise even a dollar per gallon, someone else will just start their own milk company and enter the market.
Price gouging is not the number one problem. If you read my earlier comments i pointed out grocery store prices of things like beef and milk remained almost exactly the same. Yet a bunch of different chains, even places like mcdonalds and five guys, increased their prices several times. The reason they could raise prices is because theyre selling more than just a bottle of milk or piece of beef that anyone can sell. They have a unique product that they maintain monopoly over, thus can get away with raising prices and blaming it all on inflation even though some of it is just raising the price because they could not because rising costs caused it.
You make yourself look crazy calling me icee.
Try disapproving a thing I said, if your pot-addled brain can comprehend it.
@RMD - That's something else Icee has bragged about, ripping off even mom and pop grocery stores. Because the only honest business is pimping.
That's good Marxist nonsense. Skewed to validate your hegemonic paradigms.
While we're at it, your definition of fact is whatever lets you rationalize your morally and ethically bankrupt lifestyle. Hey, you think pimping is the only honest profession, Icee.
Do I blame Biden and Harris for this?
wild4testes I think we have the evidence explaining your faulty outlook on politics and life in general. All those greasy fries have clogged your maggot brain and likely led to your drinking excessive kool aide to wash them down. At minimum you should downsize from large to small fries.
You can thank me later dipshit. Lol
That isn't even price gouging if there are clear high quality competitors with largely transparent pricing nearby.
There is not enough money to fund the left's agenda. Not enough rich, not enough corporations.
“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.”
- President Gerald Ford
By quoting President Ford you aren't helping your argument. Find a better quote.
Are you arguing that by Biden pumping money into the economy, fewer recent post college girls feel the need to work, and the supply of dancers has decreased?
“The old adage about giving a man a fish versus teaching him how to fish has been updated by a reader: Give a man a fish and he will ask for tartar sauce and French fries! Moreover, some politician who wants his vote will declare all these things to be among his ‘basic rights.’”
Continuing transactions between buyer and seller make sense only if value is subjective, each getting what is worth more subjectively. Economic transactions are not a zero-sum process, where one person loses whatever the other person gains.”
-Thomas Sowell
This ain’t bean ball folks, this is grift and you guys want to put the biggest grifter of all back in the White House.
Take that law and square it if it's about politics.