tuscl

Can't we all get along?

Monday, March 10, 2008 3:11 PM
This is inspired by a couple of different posts on seemingly unrelated topics, but which expressed similar ideas. This is not the first time I've seen this; it has come up on other sex-related boards. On the one hand, some of the women in the adult service provider business express disdain for their potential customers, e.g., calling them "perverts" or pathetic losers, or whatever. I recall (not on this board, but on TER) one ASP stating emphatically how much she despised her customers and took her only satisfaction in squeezing as much money out of them as quickly as possible. We all saw the recent exchange where a stripper called patrons "perverts" because they wanted extras. Just what was she thinking guys coming to a strip club were there for? A rousing discussion of politics? On the other hand, some of the guys express nothing but contempt for the women who are ASPs -- either implicitly (by mocking them, emphasizing any possible shortcomings, etc.) or explicitly (the recent post that inspired this on this site was a guy who accused strippers of having "bad morals" -- WTF? the guys who go to SCs have great morals?!?). I don't get it. As a guy, I enjoy and -- yes -- respect the women who are ASPs. They are providing a service, a service most of the guys on this site presumably very much want. Do some of them do a poor job? Well, sure, and if the free market works properly, they will gradually lose customers because of that. But general feelings of hostility toward them strike me as pretty weird -- especially for guys who like going to strip clubs. The fact that SOME women are lousy providers is no reason to tar the whole group. And if you think stippers have "bad morals" but like going to strip clubs -- buddy, you better see a therapist fast. But I have the same beef with the women who hate their customers. Of course, I would not expect the strippers to fall in love with their customers. It is a business, and they are doing this to make a living. Nothing wrong with that. But I run a business, I do it to get paid, yet I still like my customers. In fact, if I did not like my customers, I'd quit and find something else to do. Except for the ASPs who are really desperate (e.g., drug addicted), I do not understand why any body would continue in a line of work where she hates the customers she is serving every day. This thing about a stripper calling a guy who comes to a club a "pervert" is, in my view, slicing it pretty fine. Can't we all agree that the women are simply providing a service for the men that the men are happy to get -- and everyone benefits from the mutual exchange? We don't need to call each other sluts and perverts in the process, do we? It seems to me this is one arena where we can let go of the "battle of the sexes" and we can all take satisfaction in encounters that are honest and free of the bullshit and hypocrisy that normally shroud relationships. Thoughts?

23 comments

  • godfatherstill
    •
    16 years ago
    Amen.
  • wondergrl5
    •
    16 years ago
    Sounds good to me.
  • shadowcat
    •
    16 years ago
    I think that you are making too big of a deal out of this.I am well liked by most dancers at my favorite club. I have about 20 favorite dancers out of 150-200 dancers. In over 6 years of being a regular there, I have only pissed off 4 dancers. They were all probably jealous that I had never spent any money on them. 2 of the 4 are now on my favorites list because we learned to get along. I know that the 3rd is sorry for what she said to me but she has told other dancers that she does not have what it takes to apologize to me. I don't know who the 4th one is but I'll bet that I find out. I have personally met 12 TUSCLers at my favorite club. They have all been respectful to the dancers and I have been given feed back by them that they like my friends. The bigger question is why can't we get along on this discussion board? I guess that is what the ignore button is for.
  • jester214
    •
    16 years ago
    So true.
  • rootman
    •
    16 years ago
    The answer always lies somewhere in between when dealing with a diverse population. Do many dancers have issues and are they doing what they do because of it? Sure. Do many of us customers have issues and do what we do because of it? Of course. So back to the theme of getting along. Let's try to recognize that life can sometimes be tough, sometimes fun and guess what ....we can help each other. As for some of the bashing on the board, I ignore that and instead appreciate the thoughtful commentary that's so pervasive. Most of the posters are obviously very intelligent and insightful, very unusual for a forum of this type. Everybody sing now ......
  • harrydave
    •
    16 years ago
    njscfan, you have my vote. Although, I am guessing the proportions of "haters" are in the minority. I visited the "pink site" once (that was enough) and the discussion board was dominated by references to PL's etc. But, the stripper gang there was also being rude to newbie strippers. So I figure, let them stew in their own juices. As for guys on this board, there are a few that are just a bit too passionate about finding (or explaining, ad infinitum) the "reasons" for strippers behaving the way they do. I never figured the reasons were all that hard to perceive. How does "for the money" sound? One other observation about this site. I must agree with everyone who has observd that we are an intelligent crew here. Oops, no, that wasn't the observation. The observation was that sometimes we can't read the intended humor in a person's post. I may be guilty of not building in the proper cues, but I refuse to put "tee hee" at the end of my posts like wondergrl. woo hoo! (c)2008, harrydave
  • MisterGuy
    •
    16 years ago
    Dancing for a guy and giving him "extras" are two different things, period. I've had people that I know in the phone sex industry that have felt the same way (badly) about their callers (not all PSOs do this though)...it's all about the money. It's important to remember that for most dancers the money is the reason why they are there in the first place. Lots of people go to jobs everyday that they hate...just so they can have money. It's sad but true. There is a distinct lack of respect for dancers by all kinds of strip club patrons, and most dancers are highly aware of this fact. I'm not saying these girls are saints, but they are really just doing a job, period.
  • lopaw
    •
    16 years ago
    It's a vicious circle - you get a few insecure misogynists who fail miserably with women in the clubs, and with their condescending attitudes, it's going to get the girls angry. This in turn leads to the dancers starting to hate some of the customers that they have to deal with everyday. Then, they become bitter towards ALL customers, and so begins the "war". It only takes one or two assholes in a room full of nice people to ruin the dancers day - and vica-versa. Most posters here on this board fall into the "nice people" category....with some obvious ones that do not. They are the ones that the "ignore" feature was created for.
  • BobbyI
    •
    16 years ago
    It will never happen. Customers will want sex and love since the dancers are (often) attractive and young. They will kid themselves that it has happened. It will happen in reality often enough that it will, truthfully not be impossible, and every customer will think he is the exception to the rule. The women will prey on these gullible sucker because they have been conditioned (bad families) and rationalize (what we see on these boards) that it is okay. The suckers (probably "nice guys" to begin with (see other threads)) will become misogynists and seek to hurt (though probably not physically) back. And then the cycle that lopaw talks about begins. Nice pipe dream "can't we all get along"? Maybe management could do something about it, at the cost of profit, but they won't. The only solution is to fight the war smart and harder than the other side.
  • AbbieNormal
    •
    16 years ago
    apparently, no.
  • MisterGuy
    •
    16 years ago
    Customers will *not* go to strip clubs looking for "love" if they had their heaads screwed on right in the first place! So Bobbyl, tell us the story about how you were a sucker in a strip club.
  • DickJohnson
    •
    16 years ago
    uh...njscfan..i believe you were referring to my post about "bad morals." In the context of the thread I posted it on it was a valid point. It is a stereotype that I find to be true. Of course, there are some who have a good moral compass. Most guys if they are honest will agree with me that strippers have bad morals. So? hardly a news flash. Guys are no better. I have recieved extras in the clubs in the past but have moved away from that. So, my morals could use some improvement too. It's just an observation. I am a good friend now with a girl who has problems morally and thats what has kept us apart. But were still friends and I care about her. I do understand where you are coming from tho...less judgements(pathetic losers, pervs, whores, etc...) and more apprecitation, right?
  • BobbyI
    •
    16 years ago
    MisterGuy: But it happens. Happens all the time. Ergo guys don't have their heads screwed on straight and hence the problems. Try and keep up a bit, ok?
  • MisterGuy
    •
    16 years ago
    Just cuz you and DickJohnson view strippers as less-than-you apparently, doesn't mean that the rest of us have to agree with you Bobbyl. Still waiting to hear about the story where a stripper made a sucker out of you BTW...I'll bet it's pretty pathetic too.
  • BobbyI
    •
    16 years ago
    MisterGuy: Not sure what you are talking about it. But go ahead and tell the story you are imagining if it will make you feel better and keep you amused.
  • MisterGuy
    •
    16 years ago
    Enjoy that misogyny Bobbyl...lol...
  • BobbyI
    •
    16 years ago
    Enjoy your critical thinking course, MisterGuy.
  • njscfan
    •
    16 years ago
    Too bad that an attempt to foster mutual respect degenerated into more name-calling. Perhaps I am naive about the human condition. But -- in response to Dick Johnson -- I fail to see why it is obvious that strippers have bad morals. I guess it depends on your definition of "morals." My definition would relate to being honest, kind, treating others with respect, helping people when they're down, etc. The strippers and ASPs I've known have usually had pretty high moral standards according to that definition. Are there exceptions? Yes, but from what I can tell, no more so than in any other occupation. It seems that you define "good morals" as adhering to a particular definition of sexual behavior. Of course, some of the line drawing that you seem to engage in seems a little precious to me. It's ok to sleep around, but not with strippers? It's ok to get a lap dance, but not a handjob? It's ok to get your dick rubbed through your pants, but not a blow job? It's ok to look at naked girls and put $$ in their garters, but not touch them? All these distinctions strike me as artificial. And, as we are daily reminded, when some self-righteous prig claims to be a white knight, we often find out he is keeping little dark secrets. Personally, I have never understood why consensual sexual activity between adults can ever count as "immoral." But if that is what you believe, then I do not understand why you go to strip clubs, or spend any time on this site. It occurs to me you should be more concerned about hypocrisy and less concerned about sexual propriety. Until you address that problem, I think you should be reluctant to post judgments about other people's "morals".
  • DickJohnson
    •
    16 years ago
    hhmm....i lay down my sword to y'all. I am wrong. strippers have good morals and I am wrong to have judged them. i do think that porno people have bad morals, anybody with me on that?
  • wondergrl5
    •
    16 years ago
    harrydave -its not tee hee dude its lol get it right.
  • MisterGuy
    •
    16 years ago
    I thought it was hee hee?
  • wondergrl5
    •
    16 years ago
    Njscfan-it was a nice try but I guess the endless debates continue. But then what do I know Im a degenerate. (JOKE)
  • FONDL
    •
    16 years ago
    I think we often confuse the general with the specific. We've probably all known strippers who we admire and have a lot of respect for. But when we think about strippers in general, especially those who we don't know, I think there's often a negative impression because of the nature of the game. And I think strippers view us the same way, they may have little respect for customers in general but feel differently about some who they've gotten to know. Seems to me we often change our opinions about people once we've gotten to know them, regardless of what they do for a living.
You must be a member to leave a comment.Join Now
Got something to say?
Start your own discussion