Can club scan your id without telling you and risks of club having your info?
Champphilly
Perfect Gentleman
Risks: as the club has customer info where all they can use? Any bad experience? So, we can be aware of what all could happen?.
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75 comments
What they typically use it for is to see if you’ve previously been thrown out of the club or other clubs they’re associated with. No risk there and may help to keep out some PL’s you probably would prefer are not in the club anyway.
I think it's fairly obvious that they can, in fact, scan it without telling you, since that's exactly what they did in your case.
And businesses should have the right to set their own rules, even if offensive. Just like you can handpick who can enter your house.
Nowadays a business couldn’t be racist. And there’s many other rules to follow.
In most cases it shouldn’t be a problem. It can be a problem if you get into some sort of drama with a dancer or other staff, who has access to your id and home address. Or if they think you’re rich and want to rob you.
Nothing outrageous about it, that's why its called privately owned business. It's not owned by a socialist collective, it is owned by individuals. that are allowed in this country to be capitalists.
Are they required to tell you that they're going to scan your ID?... maybe. I suspect that depends on local laws.
Can they get away with scanning your ID without warning?... essentially yes.
They're counting on the vast majority of people doing what door security tells them to do. They're also counting on most people thinking it's just a mandatory drinking age check (even for folks who are obviously over 21). And, finally, once it's scanned, they're counting on the vast majority of people not making a stink about it, even if they are pissed. And, even if you make a stink about it, they're counting on most of those people not wanting to go to the Better Business Bureau with a complaint about their time in a titty bar. And all of those things they're counting on are a pretty safe bet. As much as I hear guys complain about it, I've not heard about a club seeing a significant drop in customers because they started scanning IDs.
My primary problem with this is that owners and managers at strip clubs aren't widely known for their ethics, and their grasp on information security probably spotty at best. So, I'm adverse to going to clubs where they scan IDs. In my area, there are good clubs where they don't do that, so I have my options.
That said, years ago I was much more of a regular at the Cadillac Lounge. I made the same mistake as you. The door security asked for my ID, I handed it to him, and a scanner appeared in his other hand and he scanned my ID and handed it back to me. I looked at him and said, "Well, I guess this is my last time coming here."
And you know what? That guy didn't give a shit.
Scanning your ID doesn't provide access to any private info.
You can refuse to donut. But the business can refuse to serve you. I thought you were for private sector rights lulz
But a small business owned by one or a few people should have freedom to set their own rules even discriminating against people.
Even if it was allowed most businesses wouldn’t do it because of the blowback
I have never refused to donut. Donuts are great.
But I won't frequent a club that scans licenses. It's nobody's business but my own how often I visit a club.
Scanning your ID doesn't show anything private. Nothing not on the ID itself. So it doesn't Violate privacy and is thus constitutional. That's the legal argument. But you're either a bad attorney or just play one here
Even if you're not doing anything wrong, then you get to care about the security of your personal information. And, unless you're a fan of either authoritarianism or unfettered data harvesting by commercial ventures, then there should be limits on the how, why, and when your data gets scanned or downloaded.
I fully support a club's desire to scan IDs; they absolutely have that right. But, regardless of whether or not the law requires it, they should warn customers before they scan an ID so that the customer has control over their data. As I said previously, though, there's little risk if they don't.
Sadly, the same could be said of some DMV employees. And every DMV employee, law enforcement employee, IRS person and many others around the country have the same data except for how often you visit which strip clubs.
Would be interested in hearing what bad things have actually happened as a result of scanning ID at a club. Not what could happen but what DID happen.
The logic used by some of these doxxers has been that IP addresses and street addresses are all public record, so they didnt reveal anything personal by leaking someones address or ip address online.
The problem for you guys is that as a standalone piece of info, a street address or ip address means nothing just a series of numbers or letters. When you attach someones name onto or other identifiable info onto it, or even their internet name, its no longer public record its private and doxxing.
So yes a license is considered personal, most businesses and people don’t ask for it. And most people on the street dont know your address or DOB.
An address is public in that you can go home shopping online and review addresses, once you attach someone’s name onto it it’s not public.
You’re making excuses similar to what internet doxxers have made.
That data can make its way to data brokers (some legal and some very not) and be used to start a record or, more likely, to corroborate and build out a record in existence. In the case of legal data brokers, that information can be sold on to various marketers or large commercial interests. With illegal data brokers, that information can be used to round out a record used for identity theft, fraud, or ransomware attacks. In both legal and illegal cases, the data can get there either by outright sale or sometimes hacking. It depends on the integrity of the business doing the scanning and the quality of the software used to gather and store the data.
What are the chances of any of that happening? Honestly, that's hard to know. But, again, I'm less inclined to trust the good decision making or ethics of strip club management. So, given the opportunity to *not* have my ID scanned at a strip club, I'll take it. Especially when I can drive a few minutes to another good club that doesn't do that.
Strip clubs might have very valid and non shifty reasons to scan IDs. I don't dispute that. My beef is with clubs scanning IDs without giving the customer a chance to opt out of it.
I don't like it either but it isn't illegal.if it were UT wouldn't be done.
And what do you think about club manager will do with it? Follow you home? Which is the most they can do lulz
In some places, like Kentucky, the only defense for selling alcohol to an underage person is if the club can show that they person presented a fraudulent ID, so even though Kentucky doesn't have a law that requires a club (or even a liquor store) to check ID before serving alcohol, many clubs adopt a 100% inspection policy.
Yes, you can argue "I'm obviously over 21" but it's easier, and more foolproof, to train employees to just check everyone, every time.
And IDs being asked for doesn’t mean the info on tje ID isnt private, lol. Do you think social security numbers aren’t private because credit card companies ask for them? The reason IDs can be scanned and looked at is because they’re asked for they dont just grab them by force
I know. That's exactly what I said.
"Which is legally not private"
That's not true. The Drivers Privacy Protection Act (DPPA) is a 1994 law that protects the personal information assembled by your state’s Department of Motor Vehicles and governs the proper versus improper collection, processing, aggregation, correlation, and redisclosure of a user's data as contained on driver's licenses.
So, that information is, by law, private. If you can cite legislation or case law stating that it isn't, then do so.
In addition, there are numerous states that have passed (or want to pass) laws further governing the collection and storage of personally identifiable information (PII) by businesses (as well as non-profits and political organizations).
"I don't like it either but it isn't illegal.if it were UT wouldn't be done."
I've said a few times that it's not illegal and that the clubs have a right to do it. But, the there are laws governing the proper collection and storage of that data, as well as (in some cases) giving the user the right to not allow collection of that data at all. Which, again, is mostly what I'm on about: asking the customer before scanning the ID.
"And what do you think about club manager will do with it? Follow you home? Which is the most they can do lulz"
No, but I already explained that and you already know it. Depending on the software security, data storage practices, and who has access, the data can be hacked or sold off (legally or illegally) to data brokers. And I honestly don't know how often that can, does, or will happen, but I do think that consumers should be given the opportunity to opt out of PII data collection before it happens.
Listen, we all know you're here to pick a fight for your own odd jollies. It's all part of your fabricated online persona. So, go ahead with your next volley of insults and making broad statements to cause turmoil.
Setting aside the distinction between the question of can they and are they allowed to and assuming you meant are they allowed to, the answer I think is that it's mostly up to local laws. The ones for Florida are covered in 322.143 I'm not a lawyer, but the my take on the gist of it is are allowed swipe it to determine if its fake, prevent fraud, or other crimes. But they aren't allowed use that data for any other purpose without telling you what those purposes are first. You are allowed to decline automated gathering and they can instead manually gather the info. They're not allowed to decline service just because you declined the automated gathering, but its unclear if they're allowed to decline service if you also decline manual gathering. I think you'd have a hard time getting any remedy if you were refused service on that basis, at least from a small company. The Deja Vu's and RCI's of the world might be a different story, but even then its probably not much risk to them or much value to anyone who actually won a case as the actual damages are minimal and any sane person would laugh at the idea of punitive damages.
On the other hand, most of the software sold uses the information for much more than those purposes. Do a quick google and look at the sales literature. Just look at the super basic home screen from one of the more popular prodcuts: https://patronscan.com/static/e2a5afed38… You can see it's using your gender for statistics, your address to determine how far away you are from home, keeping history to determine if its your first time there or not, etc. Those same Florida statutes clearly state that's not permissible without informing the customer and outlines up to a $5000 civil penalty per instance.
It's my belief that most clubs are not scanning ID's to limit liability, prevent underage admittance, avoid crime, etc. I have no personal experience with Strip Club management or ownership, but I do know several bar owners who use those products. They all use them for the supplemental data. They're part of a bar management package, it gives them data on how many people, when and how often customers come, how much they spend, how long they stay, etc. It also tracks inventory, sales, etc. They're mostly using it for the sales/inventory stuff, but the customer insights don't cost much more in the bundle so they add it.
All that said, Like Rick, I generally avoid clubs that scan ID's. Not always, if I'm with a group and the only one who'll have a problem with it I'll let it slide. When I see it coming, I'll try to steer the group to an alternate venue. but that doesn't always work. I've paid covers and uber costs, and bought bottles to convince the group to go to a different club. Sometimes though, I want to go to a particular club even though I know they scan ID's. But greater than 99% of the time, I'll drive further, pay more, and go to an otherwise shittier club to avoid having my ID scanned.
I get that point, that's why my original post on this thread was, I'll show my I.D. but not allow anyone to take possession of it, they can look at it, ascertain my DOB, verify it's me, via the photo, but scanning or making a record of it, will get a quick no from me.
Dolfan why did you go through all that effort paying for stuff to avoid clubs that scan IDs? What are your personal issues with the id scanning practice?
😂😂😂 I'm so sorry, but I *really* needed a laugh after Sunday night and that did it. Thank you and I take back everything mean I ever said. 😂😂😂
"I'm 68 years old, with a white beard even if I look young for my age no way they can think I'm under age"
No. You're twentyfive. *Badum tiss*
ID Scanner Laws – Affirmative Defense and Privacy - https://www.idscanner.com/id-scanner-law…
I Googled "are ID scanners legal" and those two sites, as well as a plethora of others, were in the search results.
A club may do it to protect themselves from legal issues of allowing underage people in the club, to keep out people that have caused a problem or simply because they want to get data on who their customers are for marketing purposes to help grow their business. That is their choice as a business just like it is our choice to do business there or not. If they are the only club in the area doing it I would assume they would lose a ton of customers over it and either stop or go out of business as a result.
I've never heard of a case where anything bad happened with the info so for now I consider it pretty low risk and trust my identity protection plan that comes as part of my employer's benefit program to do it's job if there is a breech at a club.
And stop trolling me.
What bothers me is that simply looking at your Id was good enough for howany years. I get it's an easy way to help with crime. But notice how club shooters etc aren't that easily caught.
And that information includes your name, address, birth date, license type, and license expiration date. And that 1994 federal law governs the gathering and use of that information from your ID, meaning driver's license.
"But a club or store scanning your ID doesn't access that info."
Yes, it does.
"They only get your name address birth date."
Which is legally classified as private information both at a federal and sometimes more so at the state level.
"publicly available info."
You cannot go into town hall and ask "Where does Ishmael live?" They won't tell you unless you have legal justification to access that information. For a lot of people, it is available publicly, partly because they do stupid things with their private information, and also because data brokers do legally questionable things with the data that they have purchased. But that is exactly the type of thing those laws seek to address... the fact that it is private information and we should have control over where it goes.
"Qnd of course there are laws about what or can't be done with the info."
You are correct...because it's legally private information.
Go ahead. It's your turn to say contrary things because it's fun for you.
If I'm ever asked for my id I'll ask why? Someone said it's to see if you've ever been thrown out before. When someone gets thrown out of a bar does the bar enter their driver's license in a database? I don't think so.
So why would a quasi-legal operation such as a strip club require ID scan? What are the possible reasons? Perhaps to help protect the dancers. Dancers do get raped and sexually battered in the vip rooms, a bad character may be less likely to misbehave if he knows his id was scanned. Another reason could be that the local police asked the bar to scan IDs, probably "off the record". Pimps and drug dealers frequent strip clubs. Cops could find a record of all the people who went to a strip club useful. Now before you start telling me how little my dick is and how cold it is in my mom's basement, I'm not saying any of this happens, I'm merely speculating.
What bad thing could happen? They sell your information. You start getting mail from them. You're contacted by the police as a witness. A crime is committed by a bar patron, the patron looks at photos of all the bar patrons and picks yours. Now they have a witness and you have no alibi. A dancer claims you owe her money and threatens to sue. You're added to a nationwide database of strip club patrons, which is sold to anyone who'll pay.
Yes, I'm paranoid. It's better to be too paranoid than not paranoid enough.
The dmv also stores your registration driving record etc. That's the private info in question. Not anything seen on the I'd itself.
What you consider private and what is legally private are not the same.
Go ahead and say contrary things and tell me what I really mean coz that's your obnoxious trolling technique
No, voter registration rolls are not public. And they're certainly not universally public. Different states have different legal limits on who can view or use voter registration lists. Essentially all strip out things like DOB, which is always recorded by ID scanners using a drivers license.
That's because all of that information is legally private. Or, at least that's the stance of the National Conference of State Legislatures who is the actual authority on such things (not you).
"Also any service like spokeo has your info readily available. It used to be listed in phone books"
The fact that people do stupid things with their PII and that data brokers do questionable things with PII doesn't make it legally public. Also, you can force Spokeo to remove your PII by request. That's because it's legally private and they can't contest a removal request. Phone books... you could opt to be unlisted or not have your address listed... same reasoning.
"The dmv also stores your registration driving record etc. That's the private info in question. Not anything seen on the I'd itself."
Also no. That 1994 law was passed to safeguard all of the PII collected by DMVs.
"What you consider private and what is legally private are not the same."
That's weird. I was about to say the same thing to you. It looks like all that free legal advice you offer is worth what you're charging for it.
And, I still believe that clubs should ask before they scan IDs. Because we have a legal right to control the collection of our private information.
Voter rolls are public. A random example.
https://voterrecords.com/
https://voterrecords.com/voters/Ishmael/…
Also. You keep mentioning the 1994 dppa
Per the DPPA, “Personal information does not include information on car accidents, driving violations or driver’s status”. The DPPA also defines “highly restricted personal information” to include “an individual’s photograph or image, social security number, medical or disability information”.
Now fuck off.
By the way. Clubs here ask to scan your ID
No need to. We've all seen the photo by now and everyone is well aware of your tictac dick and feels second hand embarrassment for you. Tictac dicks provide zero pleasure and most women and men have to ask you if it's in, hence your need for a strap-on.
I “assume” that it can be used for “keeping out trouble-makers” – but I wonder if that is being used as an excuse – big-data is a big-thing now-a-days and perhaps many of these clubs are using this to gain data on customer demographics attending their club etc, and using “it’s a security measure” as an excuse for wanting to gather data.
I recall not-too-long-ago many clubs used to deny-entry to unaccompanied-women (not sure how many still do this) – the “rationale” was that they were working-girls there to look for “business prospects” – as some TUSCL-vets may recall, a few years ago a club in SoCal (in COI I think) got sued for denying entry to an accompanied-female – this female was a lesbian that liked hitting strip-clubs and she let the club know that but still got denied-entry – anyway she sued the club (I don’t recall what the result of the law-suit was but I think/assume the club lost) – anyway this makes me wonder if a custy sues w.r.t. being denied entry into a club if he doesn’t allow the club to *scan* his ID if the club would lose that suit (given that no other private business AFAIK has such a requirement)?
Thank you for all of the compliments. It takes a true pussy bitch like yourself to recognize when an alpha is speaking down at you. Have fun at your dishwashing job at Bogarts in a few hours and can't wait for your mommy to come over after she drops your disappointing existence off.
Now I'll go log into my old account I finally regained access to and message everyone I've met from here that I'm apparently a male and they all hallucinated me as a female. 🥰
Here?... not so much.
It's a non issue.
And the determination for whether something is or isn’t private has nothing to do with whether businesses ask for the info. Businesses can ask for social security numbers it doesnt mean theyre not private. There’s nothing illegal about asking someone for private info so “if it wuz private it would b illegal for dem 2 ask fo it” is hilarious
Papi, its one thing if a club refuses entry after a customer declines to scan. Im not sure a club would lose that lawsuit.
But im curious about clubs where they actually just ask to see your ID and then without any warning or asking for permission they just plop it into a big machine that looks like a printer.
Sure you can stop refusing to go to the club in the future, but was it legal for them to just without warning plop the id into a machine..?
Also is it legal for clubs to without consent or without notification, store the information from IDs? Consent makes everything possible but what about clubs who are scanning IDs but not making any mention to clients that their ID info is actually being saved in a system? Even if they are verifying whether the id is real even if they are using their system to keep out bad actors or banned people, is it legal for them to store info from the licenses without first informing and getting permission?
Icee posted voter records earlier as an “argument” that drivers license info isn’t private, but the consent seems to be a very important factor. Only registered voters information is available publicly, and people can choose whether they want to be a registered voter. Voting doesn’t automatically make you a registered voter. Im not sure if its legal for a club to ask to see your ID then scan it. And not sure if they can store the info without informing people.