Free Legal Advice - Serious Question

I’m a big believer in consent. Since I’ve been a teen and young adult, I’ve retained the belief that sex and consent go together. So, no, it’s not something I have ever gotten into.

Oh I agree on consent. Totally 100%. Never would force an act in anyone. When touching began common, and I’m just talking tits and ass, I never proceeded until the dancer led my hands. Now it’s commonplace and it’s expected. So legally, do I still need verbal consent? Really, who asks? If you initiate and the dancer doesn’t move your hand away, is that implied consent? I guess that’s the legal question

Based on your description of the possible escalation during a private dance - any lawsuit arising from those events would largely be he said/she said. I know some clubs have cameras in those areas, but locating the footage after a length of time, might not be possible. So, my advice would be to avoid getting famous, and enjoy mongering as a largely unknown customer.

I’m not sure if the environment of a strip club is the same as a cast party, in the strip club management has the responsibility for being certain that anyone in that environment is of legal age, and has the additional responsibility to ensure a safe workplace that issues of consent should be dealt with. That said nothing should happen without consent whether it be stated or implied if any questions arise during an encounter the smart mongers terminate that episode ASAP.

"El oh el"

There is no "implied consent" for sexual conduct.

It's "commonplace and it's expected". That's not a defense, especially if local laws say to keep your hands to yourself.

It's a strip club. Has she been drinking? Is she high or did she take anything? It doesn't matter whether you are aware. Depending on the severity of your local laws, under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol (at all) can mean she cannot give consent.

Also..."it's expected"...dude, the $20/3 minutes you are paying her does not grant you the automatic authority to fingerbang (or even grab the snack trays). Get her consent, either verbally or by her putting her hands where she wants them if she's into it.

ESPECIALLY in today's #metoo environment; yes, "even a stripper" can claim that and make an accusation if she wants to.

Don't be dumb. Most hot 23 year olds don't really dig a fat guy old enough to be her grandpa digging into them. But some will "allow"

Also...if she's underage, good luck arguing it's the strip club's fault. Enjoy prison. Statutory rape goes with strict liability, i.e. doesn't matter whether you knew she was underage. If she was, you're guilty. Period.

So, I think it's a good idea to not post links from here to stories of this nature. If anyone googles it, it was Variety that broke this story. That article seems to have the most information.

The inappropriateness of the the relationship started when she was 15 (engaging in explicit talk and asking for revealing images) but culminated in the physical assault alleged to have happened when she was 17. Granted, all of this happened roughly 20 years ago, but as recently as 2019 Sanz sent her text messaging admitting that what he did was wrong.

So, there's a lot going on here that increases Sanz's legal liability by orders of magnitude over what a customer might do in a strip club.

1. She was solidly underage, so the question of consent is non-existent. At that age, it's not legal for her to give consent. So, if the allegations are true, then he is guilty of assault on a minor and statutory rape.

2. There is potentially a digital trail of both the explicit conversations as well as Sanz both confessing and apologizing for what he did. Regardless of his possible sincerity when he made those apologies, it was legally not smart to commit them to a digital format.

3. This last one can be argued to be unfair to dancers and other sex workers, but his alleged offenses occurred outside of a sex work setting. When sex workers go to the police to report sexual assault, there's an added legal burden against them. Part of this is purely a function moral shame against sex workers, and part is that it's sometimes challenging to legally determine consent in a sex work setting.

Is the "Jane Doe" in this case only looking for a payday?... maybe (she's seeking many millions of dollars). I have no idea. But whether she is or isn't, she obviously looked at the breadth of evidence (her being provably underage and a digital trail of both illicit activity and a confession) and decided that she had a good case. And if all of that stuff does exist, then she's right.

As opposed to a guy who goes to a strip club and engages in extras with a dancer who is legally able to give consent. Is there a crime there?... yes. Soliciting, potentially. But there's also the dancer with her own culpability in the same crime. There's also a matter of proof, and that comes down to what has been recorded. Because if there's no recorded evidence, then it comes down to the believability of a dancer's testimony against a customer's. That's going to be an uphill battle for most dancers, because of reason #3 above.

Most dancers and sex workers know that such a case will be a solidly uphill battle that they'll likely lose, and in the end they've had to legally document their career as a sex worker. Doing that could haunt them for decades ... because Google. So, no, I wouldn't worry about this a lot as a non-celebrity strip club regular who gets extras from dancers that solidly give consent. For guys who are married or have jobs where this sort of thing is a liability, there's a great risk of blackmail. But that's a whole other subject.

That said, I'd say that if you're a guy with a wife or a sensitive career, then don't film or photograph your transactional sex and keep your messaging as clean as possible. And if a dancer ever says, "Hey, don't do that.", then don't fucking do that.

But that's not legal advice. That's just common sense.

My 2 cents...

This is why you don’t go farther than a stripper allows. You respect her boundaries. And you make sure she thinks you are just another broke old horny dude. Broke is the important part. If you are well behaved - and respect her boundaries - then you should be good.

I've done some BDSM stuff where if a woman really wanted to say she was coerced into doing it my biggest defense would be "you never used your safe word". Free use definitely has a slightly dangerous side, but blanket consent is a real thing.

I'll add that if I've never done a specific thing with a dancer before, I'll always ask before I do that thing.

I know that some guys here may not like this because it takes away from the perceived spontaneity of a VIP, but I never want to put a dancer in a position where she's afraid of what might happen if she has to force a stop.

Along with legal questions, it also comes down to whether or not you're going to be a dick.

Chickenshit comments with El duderino proving to be a pussy and a moron. All old guys are fat? You mean in the way all young guys are latent homosexuals and effeminate?

Skibum...

1. How does saying all old guys are fat making the comment "chicken shit"?

2. Please point me to where I said all old guys are fat.

Thanks, and have a wonderful day.

After reading JamesSD’s comment. I thought I’d mention some of my requirements for women whom I’ve used roughly.

I’ve gotten into some very rough sex. In the BD/SM area. I always get consent from the woman. I use the word woman as I don’t play with younger types (20 somethings) when I’m going to be rough. I also make sure it’s not her first time getting rough.

If I get the feeling she might not be comfortable with the situation - I won’t go forward. I don’t need to satisfy my desires that much - and I don’t want a woman tapping out when it’s getting heated.

My process involves meeting the woman before anything gets going. If I get an odd feeling - I call it off. Some women like to enjoy some drugs to get into rough sex - and I’m not ok with that. That clouds judgement and makes them unreliable.

A big point is, it's only some women who play the no-means-yes games. Nobody plays this unless they are an ass clowns, and ass clowns always end up being more trouble than they're worth.

Remember this? en.wikipedia.org She wan't underage for the sex, but she was for the sex tape. He wasn't charged, because he had reason to believe she was of age. But I think he got lucky because the prosecutor exercised discretion, which would be harder to come by post-Weinstein.

In my experience, it's key to watch how she touches herself down der. It's often it's a signal that you can do that too. If not, she knows you could misinterpret it. Put your fingers on her thigh and slowly move them towards the naughty bits. so she has plenty of time to push them away. Or do that fast half-turn thing they do.

There's always some risk I guess. But, unless you're actually trying to ambush finger fuck, you'll probably be dead from a 2AMer long before you're a finger fuck convict.

Or ... you can just ask.

It's complex and depends on your state. But sex crimes are usually reported later after they occur. Due to the emotional and psychological trauma.

So if you sexually assault a dancer she pretty much has over 10 years to file a criminal report. And can file a civil suit up to like 30 years later.

The exact statutes of limitations depend on your state her age the type of sex crimes etc.

There are two absolute rules:

1. NO underage partners, and no underage play with people over 18 - ever. I don't care who she is, what country you are in, who will or won't know, whether she gave consent any any fashion, or any other qualifier. DON'T!!!

2. Always get explicit consent. In a VIP setting, even if she moves my hands somewhere, I will specifically ask before I do anything other than touch what's under my hand.

The guiding principle we all must use: Never say or do anything that you wouldn't say or do in front of your mother or in court.

Herb ... I'm on board with numbers 1 and 2.

Regarding the guiding principle, I don't know what sort of relationship you have with your mom, but that's going to be a struggle for most guys.

herbtcat is a porn director, his latest productions are "Horny Lawyers" and "My Mom Likes to Watch".

Bullshit Icee' another day another lie. Not one fucking statute of limitations on a civil case is over 6 years, unless the victim is a minor and the limit begins running at 18. Example: The dancer you chose to mess with was 5. She still only has 19 years to sue your punk, broke ass. Thirty fucking years and you own a computer and could have googled it. In Mass. sexual assault on an adult is 3 years, if when they are some useless, fat, whiny, young person.

It's 20 years in Nevada . Laws differ by state.

And with civil suits it depends on how you go about it etc.

Umm, hate to break it to you Skibum, but in Mass that 5 year old has 35 years from her 18th birthday for civil and 27 years from her 16th birthday for criminal. Unless maybe the Mass dot gov site is bullshit...

mass.gov

There's several websites out there that have a state-by-state directory of statutes of limitations for sex crimes. They are pretty much all centered on helping victims of these crimes. Many states are trending towards eliminating statutes of limitations for many sex crime offenses, which I support 100%.

That said, (and returning to Motorhead's question) assuming that your dancer can legally provide consent, and you're smart about getting consent, then this isn't a huge worry for the average strip club customer. The guy in the story above is a celebrity (albeit low grade) whose alleged crimes occurred when the woman (a non-sex worker) was between the ages of 15 and 17, and he apparently left a wide and clear digital trail.

So ... don't do that.

For most guys, if you've been stupid about video, images, and messaging, then blackmail/extortion is a far greater concern.

So ... also don't do that.

For Mr. Dunderino AZ, you asked Mr. Skibum “ How does saying all old guys are fat making the comment "chicken shit"?”

Simple, Mr. Skibum is an old fat boomer guy who grew up thinking outfits with fringes were cool. There is only one man in the history of the world who could pull off fringes and that was Mr. Roger “Dodger” Daltry. But Mr. Skibum thought he could pull them off and it warped his brain. Made him hate young people who didn’t grow up wearing fringed outfits.

That, my goog sir, is why he posted nonsense about you.

You’re welcome! Dr. Phil, S.G., B.S.C. (space genius, Bronze swimming certification)

Well EL Stupido I was speaking about the civil statute of limitations, not the criminal one. The OP posted about a dancer suing, not the police bringing criminal charges. That's civil, not criminal. In your infantile rush to be right you answered the wrong fucking question shit for brains youngster.

Skibum... Perhaps you weren't wearing your reading glasses. But if you scroll back up, you'll clearly see that not only did I mention the criminal statute of limitations, but also the civil...where she would have 35 years from her 18th birthday. I know, I know reading can be tough sometimes.

Skibum lied to try to make my statement look wrong. Hoping other trolls would jump on it and attack me. Hes done it numerous times.

He takes advantage of some being too stupid to not know any better and just being here to troll

^ actually Icee he's just using your tactic, you lie about everything and make up shit and shit everyplace, you've lied about what I've posted many times so stop crying, you are a son of a bitch and the biggest troll on this board.

See dumbfucks like 25 taking skibums bait

^ See just as I said you misrepresent what I posted you are the main troll here.

El stupido us dumber than Icee.

^ I can't imagine anyone dumber than Icee on purpose LOL

See they do exactly what I said. Ignore them

Ah... I see what Skibum is doing. Sir, I was taught to respect my (very very very) elders, so I will say a prayer for you, in the hopes that your life improves enough to the point that you don't feel the need to troll a message board on a titty bar website and misrepresent comments to the point where you're completely ignoring what the say. Hopefully a few episodes of Matlock tonight will help.

Duderino = Flamemaster

Bob Dylan just got sued for alleged sexual abuse of a 12 year old girl in New York...in 1965.

Statute of limitations? Cuomo extended a look-back window a year, which would allow anybody to sue regardless of the SOL...and that expired this weekend. So if she filed by Friday...

Um, stupid, the Governor of nary one state in this country has the ability to pass laws. The fact you referenced Matlock, makes you a feed as well as a pussy. You can be on ignore douche.

sigh

Legislation is passed by the legislature. It goes into effect after it's approved by the executive. By signing the legislation, Cuomo approved it, thereby Cuomo extended the window. Perhaps if Matlock is over, you can find a repeat of Schoolhouse Rock.

governor.ny.gov

Skibum lies coz he knows the forum trolls are stupid and will latch on to it to attack people.

I recently saw a documentary that interviewed a woman who had a romance with Jimmy Page when she was 14. She seemed to remember him very fondly. We forget that, back in the day, 14 year girls could get married in many states, even without parental permission.

I saw another documentary about sex slavers who were kidnapping underage girls and pimping them on the internet. Then it reported on a police sting, arresting guys who responded to a fake escort ad (that said nothing about the escort being underage). The documentary tried to claim these guys were basically as bad as the sex slavers. The cops who made a career of locking people up for decades for a baggie full of pot are looking for a new gig I think.

When I was a teenager, there were occasions when the elementary school age daughters of family friends would climb in my lap and grind there crotch on my thigh. I made an excuse to get up, but even then I knew it would be messed up to scold/shame them. Adults obviously can't have even passive sexual contact with minors, but should not make minors feel any shame for having sexual curiosity.

This is certainly a real issue, but also something that could get turned into a witch hunt.

Supporting pedophiles is sick