Free Legal Advice - Serious Question
motorhead
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
I have a serious question, so I thought I’d start a thread rather than get lost in the original thread.
Horacio Sanz - described as a ex-SNL star - (I think calling him a “star” is a bit over the top) has been accused of sexual assaulting an underage girl at a cast party. Sorry I didn’t post the link but you can google it. She had started a fan club and that’s he she eventually got invited to meet him.
Years after the incident he’s been accused of “digitally penetrating” the young girl.
Here’s the serious legal question. Let’s be honest, haven’t many of us done the same thing? Of course, not with an underage girl. No dancer at the time has ever objected or said stop, but who’s to say 10 years down the road she could decide sue as in this case?
Horacio Sanz - described as a ex-SNL star - (I think calling him a “star” is a bit over the top) has been accused of sexual assaulting an underage girl at a cast party. Sorry I didn’t post the link but you can google it. She had started a fan club and that’s he she eventually got invited to meet him.
Years after the incident he’s been accused of “digitally penetrating” the young girl.
Here’s the serious legal question. Let’s be honest, haven’t many of us done the same thing? Of course, not with an underage girl. No dancer at the time has ever objected or said stop, but who’s to say 10 years down the road she could decide sue as in this case?
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There is no "implied consent" for sexual conduct.
It's "commonplace and it's expected". That's not a defense, especially if local laws say to keep your hands to yourself.
It's a strip club. Has she been drinking? Is she high or did she take anything? It doesn't matter whether you are aware. Depending on the severity of your local laws, under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol (at all) can mean she cannot give consent.
Also..."it's expected"...dude, the $20/3 minutes you are paying her does not grant you the automatic authority to fingerbang (or even grab the snack trays). Get her consent, either verbally or by her putting her hands where she wants them if she's into it.
ESPECIALLY in today's #metoo environment; yes, "even a stripper" can claim that and make an accusation if she wants to.
Don't be dumb. Most hot 23 year olds don't really dig a fat guy old enough to be her grandpa digging into them. But some will "allow"
The inappropriateness of the the relationship started when she was 15 (engaging in explicit talk and asking for revealing images) but culminated in the physical assault alleged to have happened when she was 17. Granted, all of this happened roughly 20 years ago, but as recently as 2019 Sanz sent her text messaging admitting that what he did was wrong.
So, there's a lot going on here that increases Sanz's legal liability by orders of magnitude over what a customer might do in a strip club.
1. She was solidly underage, so the question of consent is non-existent. At that age, it's not legal for her to give consent. So, if the allegations are true, then he is guilty of assault on a minor and statutory rape.
2. There is potentially a digital trail of both the explicit conversations as well as Sanz both confessing and apologizing for what he did. Regardless of his possible sincerity when he made those apologies, it was legally not smart to commit them to a digital format.
3. This last one can be argued to be unfair to dancers and other sex workers, but his alleged offenses occurred outside of a sex work setting. When sex workers go to the police to report sexual assault, there's an added legal burden against them. Part of this is purely a function moral shame against sex workers, and part is that it's sometimes challenging to legally determine consent in a sex work setting.
Is the "Jane Doe" in this case only looking for a payday?... maybe (she's seeking many millions of dollars). I have no idea. But whether she is or isn't, she obviously looked at the breadth of evidence (her being provably underage and a digital trail of both illicit activity and a confession) and decided that she had a good case. And if all of that stuff does exist, then she's right.
As opposed to a guy who goes to a strip club and engages in extras with a dancer who is legally able to give consent. Is there a crime there?... yes. Soliciting, potentially. But there's also the dancer with her own culpability in the same crime. There's also a matter of proof, and that comes down to what has been recorded. Because if there's no recorded evidence, then it comes down to the believability of a dancer's testimony against a customer's. That's going to be an uphill battle for most dancers, because of reason #3 above.
Most dancers and sex workers know that such a case will be a solidly uphill battle that they'll likely lose, and in the end they've had to legally document their career as a sex worker. Doing that could haunt them for decades ... because Google. So, no, I wouldn't worry about this a lot as a non-celebrity strip club regular who gets extras from dancers that solidly give consent. For guys who are married or have jobs where this sort of thing is a liability, there's a great risk of blackmail. But that's a whole other subject.
That said, I'd say that if you're a guy with a wife or a sensitive career, then don't film or photograph your transactional sex and keep your messaging as clean as possible. And if a dancer ever says, "Hey, don't do that.", then don't fucking do that.
But that's not legal advice. That's just common sense.
My 2 cents...
I know that some guys here may not like this because it takes away from the perceived spontaneity of a VIP, but I never want to put a dancer in a position where she's afraid of what might happen if she has to force a stop.
Along with legal questions, it also comes down to whether or not you're going to be a dick.
1) How does saying all old guys are fat making the comment "chicken shit"?
2) Please point me to where I said all old guys are fat.
Thanks, and have a wonderful day.
I’ve gotten into some very rough sex. In the BD/SM area. I always get consent from the woman. I use the word woman as I don’t play with younger types (20 somethings) when I’m going to be rough. I also make sure it’s not her first time getting rough.
If I get the feeling she might not be comfortable with the situation - I won’t go forward. I don’t need to satisfy my desires that much - and I don’t want a woman tapping out when it’s getting heated.
My process involves meeting the woman before anything gets going. If I get an odd feeling - I call it off. Some women like to enjoy some drugs to get into rough sex - and I’m not ok with that. That clouds judgement and makes them unreliable.
Remember this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Lowe#S… She wan't underage for the sex, but she was for the sex tape. He wasn't charged, because he had reason to believe she was of age. But I think he got lucky because the prosecutor exercised discretion, which would be harder to come by post-Weinstein.
In my experience, it's key to watch how she touches herself down der. It's often it's a signal that you can do that too. If not, she knows you could misinterpret it. Put your fingers on her thigh and slowly move them towards the naughty bits. so she has plenty of time to push them away. Or do that fast half-turn thing they do.
There's always some risk I guess. But, unless you're actually trying to ambush finger fuck, you'll probably be dead from a 2AMer long before you're a finger fuck convict.
So if you sexually assault a dancer she pretty much has over 10 years to file a criminal report. And can file a civil suit up to like 30 years later.
The exact statutes of limitations depend on your state her age the type of sex crimes etc.
1. NO underage partners, and no underage play with people over 18 - ever. I don't care who she is, what country you are in, who will or won't know, whether she gave consent any any fashion, or any other qualifier. DON'T!!!
2. Always get explicit consent. In a VIP setting, even if she moves my hands somewhere, I will specifically ask before I do anything other than touch what's under my hand.
The guiding principle we all must use:
Never say or do anything that you wouldn't say or do in front of your mother or in court.
Regarding the guiding principle, I don't know what sort of relationship you have with your mom, but that's going to be a struggle for most guys.
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/massac…
That said, (and returning to Motorhead's question) assuming that your dancer can legally provide consent, and you're smart about getting consent, then this isn't a huge worry for the average strip club customer. The guy in the story above is a celebrity (albeit low grade) whose alleged crimes occurred when the woman (a non-sex worker) was between the ages of 15 and 17, and he apparently left a wide and clear digital trail.
So ... don't do that.
For most guys, if you've been stupid about video, images, and messaging, then blackmail/extortion is a far greater concern.
So ... also don't do that.
Simple, Mr. Skibum is an old fat boomer guy who grew up thinking outfits with fringes were cool. There is only one man in the history of the world who could pull off fringes and that was Mr. Roger “Dodger” Daltry. But Mr. Skibum thought he could pull them off and it warped his brain. Made him hate young people who didn’t grow up wearing fringed outfits.
That, my goog sir, is why he posted nonsense about you.
You’re welcome! Dr. Phil, S.G., B.S.C. (space genius, Bronze swimming certification)
Statute of limitations? Cuomo extended a look-back window a year, which would allow anybody to sue regardless of the SOL...and that expired this weekend. So if she filed by Friday...
Legislation is passed by the legislature. It goes into effect after it's approved by the executive. By signing the legislation, Cuomo approved it, thereby Cuomo extended the window. Perhaps if Matlock is over, you can find a repeat of Schoolhouse Rock.
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governo…
I saw another documentary about sex slavers who were kidnapping underage girls and pimping them on the internet. Then it reported on a police sting, arresting guys who responded to a fake escort ad (that said nothing about the escort being underage). The documentary tried to claim these guys were basically as bad as the sex slavers. The cops who made a career of locking people up for decades for a baggie full of pot are looking for a new gig I think.
When I was a teenager, there were occasions when the elementary school age daughters of family friends would climb in my lap and grind there crotch on my thigh. I made an excuse to get up, but even then I knew it would be messed up to scold/shame them. Adults obviously can't have even passive sexual contact with minors, but should not make minors feel any shame for having sexual curiosity.
This is certainly a real issue, but also something that could get turned into a witch hunt.