Kissing
This is not about Deep French Kissing per se, just regular kissing, ideally the extended type mouth kissing, not just the (fake) pecks. Outsiders unfamiliar with the strip world except as the media-created image of a place for crack-whores to make money- would be very surprised at this segment of the business. I certainly was.
Question is how often? what type? what percent of girls? is it becoming more common?
Kissing appears to have the highest pleasure ratio relative to the least chance of transmitting any serious diseases, and supposedly trasmits about as many germs as a handshake, which might be at least partly true. In any case, its one of the few relatively safe activities left. Now that said, there are a few things than can be transmitted but not normally genital herpes, and I believe it still has to be limited to only select dancers.
Rules I've followed:
1. not in a random 1st time or near first time private dance, there's no connection anyways - so why bother
2. never never would I force or aggressively push for a kiss from a dancer on the mouth (nor anywhere near it) w/o some kind of permission, either implicit or explicit. I've heard dancers flipping out describing what just happened to the housemom or female bartenders - after recent dances with some guys, where the customer attempts some kind of unsolicited kiss. Dancers apparently (understandably) put such attempts in the same category as rape, which makes some sense as I've had dancers tell me "kissing is the 2nd most intimate act between a man and a woman" Also everyone knows from the Pink site how repulsive even what an unsolicted neck kiss can be for certain dances.
3. preferably dancers in their late 20's or older (so far at least) as too many head-case young girls in the business, although I am sure there are many exceptions
4. if you know or have info they've got a current boyfriend, especially early stage hot love affair deals, I would abosolutely not want to kiss such a dancer. The level of fakery exceeds even my standards. An exception might be a more mature women that may have an extended live-in deal where you have info that its near dead or on its last legs
5. would not want if the dancer has unavailable boyfriends due to current incarceration in the state, fed or local prison, and for example scheduled to get out in the next 6 months. It so happens these type of dancers I very very rarely ever have any real attraction to anyways
6. Of course with ATF status (easy case) or semi-ATF developing, or very early on with the right dancer it for example you are about to go into an extended CR session, and she asks you what are you looking for and you explain its more about this - pointing to upper body/head/neck vs below the waist.
7. I've noticed dancers using (on their own accord) the chin-area kiss and/or glancing blow kiss very near mouth kiss as a typical signal that they want to get into this. Some I wouldn't mouth kiss anyways, because if its with everybody, not sure if that's smart.
Additional comments:
I've noticed in the club(s) that dancers tend to keep quiet, either (as far as I can tell) with other dances or with customers about the whole kissing subject, somewhat similar to the way they avoid excess discussion of the (hard core) extras issue
First time I realized it was common was a while back when this super-high gloss 9 level brunnette/black dress/flip hair-style chick (upper east side NY image) entered a certain club one night, apparently she was free-lancing "once a month" at the club she claims (high class hooker trolling for business I believe, she indicated to me 3000 a night min goal for her that very night). I happen to spend almost 300 dollars in the VIP open couch area on her, turns out her day-job is legal related so its ends up an extended talk session, couldn't bring myself to push for more. Hour later I am with an early stage ATF lady in the same open couch VIP section, and next to us this free-lancer is having a deep-make out session with another customer and the (early) ATF says (with what appeared to be genuine shock) "they're kissing" I said "gee guess I missed out". Of course few weeks later the same AFT starts the kissing thing going. At that point I didn't understand what ATFs typically do and don't do
Question is how often? what type? what percent of girls? is it becoming more common?
Kissing appears to have the highest pleasure ratio relative to the least chance of transmitting any serious diseases, and supposedly trasmits about as many germs as a handshake, which might be at least partly true. In any case, its one of the few relatively safe activities left. Now that said, there are a few things than can be transmitted but not normally genital herpes, and I believe it still has to be limited to only select dancers.
Rules I've followed:
1. not in a random 1st time or near first time private dance, there's no connection anyways - so why bother
2. never never would I force or aggressively push for a kiss from a dancer on the mouth (nor anywhere near it) w/o some kind of permission, either implicit or explicit. I've heard dancers flipping out describing what just happened to the housemom or female bartenders - after recent dances with some guys, where the customer attempts some kind of unsolicited kiss. Dancers apparently (understandably) put such attempts in the same category as rape, which makes some sense as I've had dancers tell me "kissing is the 2nd most intimate act between a man and a woman" Also everyone knows from the Pink site how repulsive even what an unsolicted neck kiss can be for certain dances.
3. preferably dancers in their late 20's or older (so far at least) as too many head-case young girls in the business, although I am sure there are many exceptions
4. if you know or have info they've got a current boyfriend, especially early stage hot love affair deals, I would abosolutely not want to kiss such a dancer. The level of fakery exceeds even my standards. An exception might be a more mature women that may have an extended live-in deal where you have info that its near dead or on its last legs
5. would not want if the dancer has unavailable boyfriends due to current incarceration in the state, fed or local prison, and for example scheduled to get out in the next 6 months. It so happens these type of dancers I very very rarely ever have any real attraction to anyways
6. Of course with ATF status (easy case) or semi-ATF developing, or very early on with the right dancer it for example you are about to go into an extended CR session, and she asks you what are you looking for and you explain its more about this - pointing to upper body/head/neck vs below the waist.
7. I've noticed dancers using (on their own accord) the chin-area kiss and/or glancing blow kiss very near mouth kiss as a typical signal that they want to get into this. Some I wouldn't mouth kiss anyways, because if its with everybody, not sure if that's smart.
Additional comments:
I've noticed in the club(s) that dancers tend to keep quiet, either (as far as I can tell) with other dances or with customers about the whole kissing subject, somewhat similar to the way they avoid excess discussion of the (hard core) extras issue
First time I realized it was common was a while back when this super-high gloss 9 level brunnette/black dress/flip hair-style chick (upper east side NY image) entered a certain club one night, apparently she was free-lancing "once a month" at the club she claims (high class hooker trolling for business I believe, she indicated to me 3000 a night min goal for her that very night). I happen to spend almost 300 dollars in the VIP open couch area on her, turns out her day-job is legal related so its ends up an extended talk session, couldn't bring myself to push for more. Hour later I am with an early stage ATF lady in the same open couch VIP section, and next to us this free-lancer is having a deep-make out session with another customer and the (early) ATF says (with what appeared to be genuine shock) "they're kissing" I said "gee guess I missed out". Of course few weeks later the same AFT starts the kissing thing going. At that point I didn't understand what ATFs typically do and don't do
Got something to say?
Start your own discussion
7 comments
Based upon my personal experience, I don't think the extended mouth-to-mouth kissing, "make out session" and/or DFKing is as common as one would think. I consider myself to be a seasoned veteran of the SC scene, and I would guess that there have been fewer than 10 dancers with whom I've shared that pleasure.
The dancers and the experiences that I've had with them has pretty much run the proverbial gamut, even with the number of them small. I've had a few instances where we've done it during our first dance session (NEVER the first dance), and a few instances where it's taken quite a bit of time to get there, a la with a dancer holding at least fav, if not ATF status.
My list of rules that I've followed are much less stringent than yours, and are as follows;
1. I never make the move first... she needs to initiate it
2. she needs to be very attractive to me (duh!) - no sleazy lookin' girls
3. no bad breath (though cigarette breath has become acceptable)
Short list... guess I'm too easy, eh?!
I enjoy the kiss enough that although it would make it more enjoyable, some things can be overlooked. Obviously, if she gives you the impression that there's some meaning and desire behind it, it is MUCH hotter than if you are thinking that it's just one of those things that she does with any guy that has some Jackson's burning a hole in his pocket.
I think there are a lot of dancers out there that DO use the kiss as one of the tools in her arsenal of tricks to increase her bottom line. At least one of the girls on my list fell into that category, but I still enjoyed it.
Another factor that seems to play a big role is the club and/or region. I think there are some clubs where kissing is more normal and used more frequently. Or maybe it's just the fact that dancer X started doing it and now dancer XX has to do it in order to compete for business. Either way, the environment surely plays a role in it.
I think there is a chemical influence at work in some of these cases. It could be too much to drink, or maybe she's had too much weed... or it could be of the pill nature such as ecstasy. For instance, one of my kissing partners had imbibed more than her share of liquor the night that we shared our first (and only) dance session and also resulted in sharing a whole lot of saliva.
Lastly, there is the mutual attraction angle. Maybe I'm naive, but I believe that several of the girls on my list were kissing me because they wanted to and enjoyed it.
I'm sure the regular posters here will be rolling their eyes soon, because I've already related this story before, but here goes;
A year ago this month, I met my ATF during a business trip. I was immediately attracted to her, and either she is a very good actress (always possible) or she felt the same way. Anyhow, the first night I discovered her just an hour before the place closed, so we spent what time we had in VIP, and had a great time. The second night at the club, I took her back to VIP as soon as she got out on the floor after changing, and we had another enjoyable time. During that marathon session, I noticed that I found our lips in close proximity more and more frequently - we'd be staring into each other's eyes, and I was REALLY wanting to kiss her. As our lips were seemingly drawn to each other over and over, she would pull away and ask, "what are you thinking?", to which I'd reply something corny like "I'm just thinking about how beautiful you are". After repeating that scenario a half-dozen times, she finally announced, "I KNOW what you are thinking and it would make it worse for both of us" I didn't really know how to take that, but I told her "it doesn't matter, I've already fallen for you". She kind'a laughed, and rolled her eyes. Soon we were at it again, only this time as our lips got closer together, we looked deeply into each other's eyes. I think we knew what was going to happen next. There was no pulling away - just a long, slow, almost torturous lean-in until our lips met and sensuously parted.
Whew, I'm telling you! I'm in my mid-forties and have had my share of women, but THAT was THE hottest kiss that I've EVER experienced to this day. By the end of the night, my lips were chapped from all of the kissing that we did... We saw each other one more night during that trip, which also ended up being a long make-out session. My lips were sore for several days after, but it was all worth it.
Coincidentally, I'll be spending the day with her tomorrow and I can't wait!
One exception would be hot latin chicks that nice personalities, no current boyfriends etc, and who look clean and have a great brazilian portuguese or spanish - english accent. I don't necessarily care if there is mutuality, although so far there has been - I just want to kiss that mouth that is producing that amazing accent. That opportunity didn't present itself in earlier years
Actually it can be a hybrid situation, although weighted toward acting in most cases. Alternatively she is "responding" in a non-standard manner.
I know certain posters in here would react in such a way to this type of story: "who gives a crap, they are entertainers, its like giving peanuts (money) to a trained monkey, no one wants to hear another PL story, NEXT, sorry I must now go and write more suck-up-to-dancer posts on the pink site"
What's happening is while I believe while these girls (who are dealing with men daily in very high volume) rarely rarely ever develop the "in love" type feelings with a client, there are in fact degrees of responsiveness, and that degree of responsiveness can make it alot more enjoyable and meaningful for a client. I believe that partly depends on what level of PL we are. We all know what our real world experience is (or was) w/o money changing hands. A complete loser in terms of women in the real world will generally have nearly insurmountable odds in overcoming the (presumed) standard repulsivity factor working against them, and of getting any kind of a high response reaction from any dancers, its simply a matter of common sense.
The acting role and the reactions can overlap and become difficult to sort out, for example these reactions could be in a way that indicates some kind of non-standard response but one well short of an "in love" type status
Here is a classic example. This dancer chick ATF type is clearly not "in love" with me nor has she ever been, no doubt. However early-on in the ATF deal I knew she was working nearly every day and even extra shifts, was a high earner "wanna-dance" type non-stop hard worker. She was foreign and could barely speak english and the money was being mostly shipped back to her home country. Over time I realized that there were absolutely zero other romantic situations going in her real life, and I eventually realized that she detested the business, especially the more seamy side, even the stage work she hated with the 2 dollar perverts. She was college educated in her home country but could not work here in any high level job, was divorced with one kid, and very intelligent and was determined to make a better life for herself.
I came up with the idea of holding her for an entire 15 minute open couch area session, in a sort of hug with my hands around her waist (sitting in back of her) with her clothes fully on, no sexual type touching - obviously a very intimate thing to do with a dancer, one I would never even attempt on a random dancer
I was very interested in her reaction, the body cues etc. She ended up shimmering, almost like a shake, and other body cues consistent with this reaction - it was if she hadn't been held that way in years. Now some would say that it was fake, I knew it was real when the next time several days later I did the same thing and she reacted much differently, very matter-of-factly,(no shimmering or anything) she apparently realized she had let down her guard the first time, and had stepped outside the bounds of the (protective) stripper persona, she treated her job very seriously and obviously realized that she had broken one of the rules. A actress would normally do it again or attempt some variation
Point is she is not "in love" with me, however getting that response, that momentary deeper connection, was very important to me, not only "made my day" (so to speak) when it happened but made everything going forward alot more fun
Here is a funny true story. About 18 months ago, one of my top favorites dropped out of sight. We did a lot of DFK etc. She reappeared 3 months ago. She had, had a baby and gotten remarried. I said "Well I guess that I can forget about any DFK." She replied not necessarily. We did some lap dances but no DFK took place. Two months ago we hooked up at the club again. We were sitting. Talking. Another favorite dancer came up to me and gave me a big wet kiss right on the lips. Then she asked "What would I have to do to get $2 from you to make my tip out?" I said "Fuck me!" She gave me another big kiss and then asked "Do I have to do her too?" I pulled $2 out of my pocket and gave it to her. She then stuck her tongue down my throat. After she left my other favorites asked in an astonished voice, "Do you know her?" I said "of course".
I saw her again last week. We are back to where we were 18 months ago. Lots of DFK etc. etc. She is pissed at her husband. He has been unemployed for the last month and 1/2. She can't stand having him at home all of the time. She told me that if she was not married, she would spend the whole night with me at my hotel. No charge. Do I believe her? Maybe.
I don't kiss and tell either except to my best TUSCL buddies and then only by email.
Over the years, I had always thought of DFK as rare. But have come into a run of good luck with it in recent months. First, with a girl next door type, who waxed on and on about the unique connection between us. It is unlikely that she was into it as much as she claimed to be, but the fact that she was at it at all was fine with me.
Since that has gone by the boards, I've encountered three more in the same club offering the same liberties. (Of the four, one came through on OTC, although each has professed it to be available.)
I'm closer to 60 than 50, and I wasn't that big a deal when I was 25.
But I just think it has to do with dress, manner and eye contact. That and 6 dances for $100.
The poster formerly known as fantasycamper
I had this dancer (very very attractive petite girl) who I "danced" with at "club 2" now and then over lets say 3 months, not really an ATF just never turned her down over that time frame, perhaps every 5 days or so, but I was for various reasons spending more time at "club 1" - so I didn't see her one time for lets say 2 weeks in a row. So she asks me for her "dance" , then she gives the usual "its been soooo long baby" line and I could not believe how intense she was, it was definitely like some of makeup sex equivalent, real crazy, maybe she was ovulating too because I noticed she was out for 4 days - approx 2 weeks after that