Kissing

David9s: Before I get into the topic, what exactly is CR? I've not seen that acronym before, but I'm assuming that it stands for Couch Room? We've discussed this topic before, but it has been a while, and besides, this is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. Ironically, I think I was the one that started the thread the last time...

Based upon my personal experience, I don't think the extended mouth-to-mouth kissing, "make out session" and/or DFKing is as common as one would think. I consider myself to be a seasoned veteran of the SC scene, and I would guess that there have been fewer than 10 dancers with whom I've shared that pleasure.

The dancers and the experiences that I've had with them has pretty much run the proverbial gamut, even with the number of them small. I've had a few instances where we've done it during our first dance session (NEVER the first dance), and a few instances where it's taken quite a bit of time to get there, a la with a dancer holding at least fav, if not ATF status.

My list of rules that I've followed are much less stringent than yours, and are as follows;
1. I never make the move first... she needs to initiate it
2. she needs to be very attractive to me (duh!) - no sleazy lookin' girls
3. no bad breath (though cigarette breath has become acceptable)

Short list... guess I'm too easy, eh?!

I enjoy the kiss enough that although it would make it more enjoyable, some things can be overlooked. Obviously, if she gives you the impression that there's some meaning and desire behind it, it is MUCH hotter than if you are thinking that it's just one of those things that she does with any guy that has some Jackson's burning a hole in his pocket.

I think there are a lot of dancers out there that DO use the kiss as one of the tools in her arsenal of tricks to increase her bottom line. At least one of the girls on my list fell into that category, but I still enjoyed it.

Another factor that seems to play a big role is the club and/or region. I think there are some clubs where kissing is more normal and used more frequently. Or maybe it's just the fact that dancer X started doing it and now dancer XX has to do it in order to compete for business. Either way, the environment surely plays a role in it.

I think there is a chemical influence at work in some of these cases. It could be too much to drink, or maybe she's had too much weed... or it could be of the pill nature such as ecstasy. For instance, one of my kissing partners had imbibed more than her share of liquor the night that we shared our first (and only) dance session and also resulted in sharing a whole lot of saliva.

Lastly, there is the mutual attraction angle. Maybe I'm naive, but I believe that several of the girls on my list were kissing me because they wanted to and enjoyed it.

I'm sure the regular posters here will be rolling their eyes soon, because I've already related this story before, but here goes;

A year ago this month, I met my ATF during a business trip. I was immediately attracted to her, and either she is a very good actress (always possible) or she felt the same way. Anyhow, the first night I discovered her just an hour before the place closed, so we spent what time we had in VIP, and had a great time. The second night at the club, I took her back to VIP as soon as she got out on the floor after changing, and we had another enjoyable time. During that marathon session, I noticed that I found our lips in close proximity more and more frequently - we'd be staring into each other's eyes, and I was REALLY wanting to kiss her. As our lips were seemingly drawn to each other over and over, she would pull away and ask, "what are you thinking?", to which I'd reply something corny like "I'm just thinking about how beautiful you are". After repeating that scenario a half-dozen times, she finally announced, "I KNOW what you are thinking and it would make it worse for both of us" I didn't really know how to take that, but I told her "it doesn't matter, I've already fallen for you". She kind'a laughed, and rolled her eyes. Soon we were at it again, only this time as our lips got closer together, we looked deeply into each other's eyes. I think we knew what was going to happen next. There was no pulling away - just a long, slow, almost torturous lean-in until our lips met and sensuously parted.

Whew, I'm telling you! I'm in my mid-forties and have had my share of women, but THAT was THE hottest kiss that I've EVER experienced to this day. By the end of the night, my lips were chapped from all of the kissing that we did... We saw each other one more night during that trip, which also ended up being a long make-out session. My lips were sore for several days after, but it was all worth it.

Coincidentally, I'll be spending the day with her tomorrow and I can't wait!

The CR would be champagne room, the extended CR session I was directly alluding to was a session costing 300 plus 100 for the bottle, with no bottle opt-out (only CR deal club offered at that club), and one with 100% privacy, no way to peak-in by staff etc, a one hour deal, and as many know many clubs offer 15 minute "champagne room" options in the range of 120 to 160 - which sometimes are more like modified private booths, where staff with a bit of effort can peak-in

Yes, agree and I forgot to mention it on my list, there has to be an element of mutuality or reciprocity to it, some glimmer at least, and ideally they are into it at some level. There are degrees of PLs and if I were truely a hardcore PL type I don't know how I could stomach any of this, and since I routinely dated (ok 20/25 plus yrs ago) the (stripper standard) 7/8 level girls who of course were not strippers, once in awhile 9 level, 5/6 too - obviously with no money changing hands and since while I am of course older I am the same weight and not bald etc, then I can do this. I couldn't do this if I believed the chick was totally repulsed, and not sure how some guys would handle that.

One exception would be hot latin chicks that nice personalities, no current boyfriends etc, and who look clean and have a great brazilian portuguese or spanish - english accent. I don't necessarily care if there is mutuality, although so far there has been - I just want to kiss that mouth that is producing that amazing accent. That opportunity didn't present itself in earlier years

"either she is a very good actress (always possible) or she felt the same way."

Actually it can be a hybrid situation, although weighted toward acting in most cases. Alternatively she is "responding" in a non-standard manner.

I know certain posters in here would react in such a way to this type of story: "who gives a crap, they are entertainers, its like giving peanuts (money) to a trained monkey, no one wants to hear another PL story, NEXT, sorry I must now go and write more suck-up-to-dancer posts on the pink site"

What's happening is while I believe while these girls (who are dealing with men daily in very high volume) rarely rarely ever develop the "in love" type feelings with a client, there are in fact degrees of responsiveness, and that degree of responsiveness can make it alot more enjoyable and meaningful for a client. I believe that partly depends on what level of PL we are. We all know what our real world experience is (or was) w/o money changing hands. A complete loser in terms of women in the real world will generally have nearly insurmountable odds in overcoming the (presumed) standard repulsivity factor working against them, and of getting any kind of a high response reaction from any dancers, its simply a matter of common sense.

The acting role and the reactions can overlap and become difficult to sort out, for example these reactions could be in a way that indicates some kind of non-standard response but one well short of an "in love" type status

Here is a classic example. This dancer chick ATF type is clearly not "in love" with me nor has she ever been, no doubt. However early-on in the ATF deal I knew she was working nearly every day and even extra shifts, was a high earner "wanna-dance" type non-stop hard worker. She was foreign and could barely speak english and the money was being mostly shipped back to her home country. Over time I realized that there were absolutely zero other romantic situations going in her real life, and I eventually realized that she detested the business, especially the more seamy side, even the stage work she hated with the 2 dollar perverts. She was college educated in her home country but could not work here in any high level job, was divorced with one kid, and very intelligent and was determined to make a better life for herself.

I came up with the idea of holding her for an entire 15 minute open couch area session, in a sort of hug with my hands around her waist (sitting in back of her) with her clothes fully on, no sexual type touching - obviously a very intimate thing to do with a dancer, one I would never even attempt on a random dancer

I was very interested in her reaction, the body cues etc. She ended up shimmering, almost like a shake, and other body cues consistent with this reaction - it was if she hadn't been held that way in years. Now some would say that it was fake, I knew it was real when the next time several days later I did the same thing and she reacted much differently, very matter-of-factly,(no shimmering or anything) she apparently realized she had let down her guard the first time, and had stepped outside the bounds of the (protective) stripper persona, she treated her job very seriously and obviously realized that she had broken one of the rules. A actress would normally do it again or attempt some variation

Point is she is not "in love" with me, however getting that response, that momentary deeper connection, was very important to me, not only "made my day" (so to speak) when it happened but made everything going forward alot more fun

Kissing between me and my favorite dancers at my favorite club has become very common place. I get kisses when we meet, when we part, when I tip them on stage, when I pay them for lap dances and they say thank you, when they leave our table and when they return, with a few, sometimes during a lap dance but that usually turns into DFK, after lunch or dinner OTC, in the club parking lot in full daylight, many times with their street clothes on.

Here is a funny true story. About 18 months ago, one of my top favorites dropped out of sight. We did a lot of DFK etc. She reappeared 3 months ago. She had, had a baby and gotten remarried. I said "Well I guess that I can forget about any DFK." She replied not necessarily. We did some lap dances but no DFK took place. Two months ago we hooked up at the club again. We were sitting. Talking. Another favorite dancer came up to me and gave me a big wet kiss right on the lips. Then she asked "What would I have to do to get $2 from you to make my tip out?" I said "Fuck me!" She gave me another big kiss and then asked "Do I have to do her too?" I pulled $2 out of my pocket and gave it to her. She then stuck her tongue down my throat. After she left my other favorites asked in an astonished voice, "Do you know her?" I said "of course".

I saw her again last week. We are back to where we were 18 months ago. Lots of DFK etc. etc. She is pissed at her husband. He has been unemployed for the last month and 1/2. She can't stand having him at home all of the time. She told me that if she was not married, she would spend the whole night with me at my hotel. No charge. Do I believe her? Maybe.

I don't kiss and tell either except to my best TUSCL buddies and then only by email.

Interesting topic representing the only distinction I've ever drawn between GFE and non-GFE experiences.

Over the years, I had always thought of DFK as rare. But have come into a run of good luck with it in recent months. First, with a girl next door type, who waxed on and on about the unique connection between us. It is unlikely that she was into it as much as she claimed to be, but the fact that she was at it at all was fine with me.

Since that has gone by the boards, I've encountered three more in the same club offering the same liberties. (Of the four, one came through on OTC, although each has professed it to be available.)

I'm closer to 60 than 50, and I wasn't that big a deal when I was 25.

But I just think it has to do with dress, manner and eye contact. That and 6 dances for $100.

The poster formerly known as fantasycamper

Supposedly the avg duration of a fully consumated being "in love" situation between a man and a women is about 1 to 2 years or 18 months. For some it might last 3 months and others 20 years, but the average is only about 18 months. The butterflies are probably receding for this lady, meaning DFK with club guys is now possible. Sounds almost like the SC ATF equivalent of makeup sex - it that makes any sense

I had this dancer (very very attractive petite girl) who I "danced" with at "club 2" now and then over lets say 3 months, not really an ATF just never turned her down over that time frame, perhaps every 5 days or so, but I was for various reasons spending more time at "club 1" - so I didn't see her one time for lets say 2 weeks in a row. So she asks me for her "dance" , then she gives the usual "its been soooo long baby" line and I could not believe how intense she was, it was definitely like some of makeup sex equivalent, real crazy, maybe she was ovulating too because I noticed she was out for 4 days - approx 2 weeks after that