What's the best way for a young girl to maximize her profit?

40 comments

• casualguy

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  17 years ago

  I did meet one dancer who told me she had a college degree and seemed pretty smart. She said stripping paid a lot more and she was going to do that for a few years. I think that is a rare choice though since I don't meet too many dancers who say they have a college degree already and are putting off their career until they are older.
• ozymandias

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  17 years ago

  Escorting. I know a 20 year old girl who just bought a $700,000 house in San Diego (yes, a charming bungalow LOL) - she's escorted since 18 in Las Vegas, and has two other girls she manages in addition. I know a Korean AMP girl I used to see who saved all the money she made - she now owns the top AMP in Atlanta (she bought out her employers), owns a couple of Asian malls on Buford Highway, and has real estate holdings back home in Pusan (jointly with her sister, who did the same thing). Ran in to her the other day at the Armani store at Phipps Plaza... she drives a white SL 500. When I was seeing her to fuck (we're platonic friends now) she was making maybe $200k a year, and that was in the mid-90s. Apart from entertainers, women entreprenuers and high-income professionals, the richest women I know were whores. I've never known a woman to actually come out ahead stripping, apart from maybe landing a dumb, yet rich, husband. Those dollar bills just spend too easily, is my usual observation. O.
• shadowcat

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  17 years ago

  By comparison, I know a stripper that does not hook on the side. She and her husband bought a 175k house 2 years ago in a suburb of Columbia. In order to qualify for the loan she had to declare 60K a year from strip club earnings and now must pay income taxes on that. That pisses her off. Join the club.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  I don't think intelligence is the most meaningful criteria, I'd also add willingness to work hard and opportunity as being at least equally important. A girl of average intelligence who comes from an upper class background and is willing to work hard will often do better than a more intelligent girl from a disadvantaged background. My ATF, for example, is well above average in intelligence and a very hard worker, but it's taking her longer than most to get into a high paying field because she came from a family that provided no guidance. I also think where a girl (or guy for that matter) goes to college and what she majors in are becoming more and more important. This is another advantage the girl from the upper class family has. She's likely to go to a more exclusive school, while the lower class girl goes to the local community college. A general degree like marketing or liberal arts from a third-rate school isn't worth much in the market place, no matter how intelligent the girl is. Unless she has super looks and personality she isn't likely to get a very good job. I'd add nursing to the list of high paying opportunities for young girls who are willing to work hard. There's a tremendous shortage and salaries are heading into the stratosphere. That's what my ATF is now pursuing. When she finishes she'll finally be back to making as much as she did 10 years ago. Stripping may pay well for a few years but over the course of a lifetime it isn't a high paying field, unless the girl is smart enough to invest well when she's young. Few do that.
• DandyDan

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  17 years ago

  One other thing upper class girls have going for them is they got the connections through their parents and other people in their support network. Jenna Bush can get any job she wants because of her dad. The average dancer, even if they get a degree, probably doesn't have the connections to get a high paying job and has to get lucky and find someone who notices them. I can see how some of them end up dancing.
• casualguy

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  17 years ago

  So I guess the top ways to make money are high star fashion models, movie stars, escorting, and then a high paying career, and then at least temporarily, stripping? I suppose stripping could lead into a role as a porn star for a few dancers if they pursued that or a recruiter found them. Anything left out here?
• casualguy

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  17 years ago

  I wonder how many women pursue those high paying jobs and end up not making it?
• motorhead

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  17 years ago

  shadowcat: my ATF has a similar situation. She has been dancing for over 7 years - she never paid any income taxes until a year and half ago when she purchased a home. Her home was also valued at around $175K, but it was a re-po home and she got a deal for about $135K. (It's a nice home, but very rural, about 25 miles outside the city. I don't know if you have cornfields in South Carolina, but in the midwest, "rural" means stuck in the middle of cornfields.) She declares about $60K also. The club where she works provides her with a yearly statement of how much she has paid to the club and her tax accountant told her the rule of thumb is to declare 3 times her yearly payout. But I'm really shocked at how low her actual taxes are for her level of income....by the time she takes exemptions as a single mom, deducts medical bills, clothes, shoes, make-up, tanning, and hair -- her yearly federal income tax is very low.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  Maybe a more meaningful (for here) topic is, what's the best way for a STRIPPER to maximize her income? I think it depends on the girl. A real knockout is probably better off working in a fancy GC, while a more average girl might do better in a smaller club where the competition isn't as great. There's also the question of regulars - that probably depends on the place but I'd say that most girls are better off to have some regulars but not so many that the girl becomes dependent on them or that they create conflict with each other. There's probably an ideal percentage of their business that comes from their regulars - maybe half or so? IME the most successful girls always seem to be tied up with their regulars. Although the ideal is probably to have regulars who come see them during slow times but not during the busiest evenings. That's what I always did with my ATF, I don't think I ever visited her on a weekend night.
• harrydave

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  17 years ago

  Here are some other suggestions of the more crass variety, but I just have to mention them, because I think they reflect some realities of the business. 1) Maintain a body mass index below 25. 2) Dye your hair blond. 3) Save up $5,000. 4) Get a boob job. 5) Work regular hours 6) Stay out on the floor, not in the dressing room 7) With any of your regulars, break the touch rules a bit (or a lot) 8) Don't try to be friends with the other girls - be pleasntly neutral 9) Don't argue with management 10) Go to a club where you are above average in looks, but not the best I could go on, but I just don't see it as a great mystery.
• DandyDan

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  17 years ago

  I would think having a pleasant personality would help out greatly. I know there was one time one of the dancers at my favorite club came up to me and just complained about everything, and then she complained about not making money that night. Then she asked if I wanted a dance, I told her no because I don't like whiners. That shut her up quickly.
• whghIost

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  17 years ago

  I agree with Harrydave. In addition, the girl needs to recognize the next guy who wants a dance from her. If you see another guy stare at you while you are dancing for someone, he wants a dance from you too. Plus, don't come late to work either. It costs you a bit, too for late fee. Plus, it is best to find guys who want to do VIP. So, you would also be willing to accommodate what the guys want to a certain point. Especially, if you think this guy is the type who would return. Most guys return especially, if they live in town. Plus, you can tell a guy likes you. Plus, if you give a little, he will return.
• motorhead

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  17 years ago

  harrydave: Excellent list. I never understood what seems so obvious to us (male customers) is often such a mystery to many dancers. Point #6 is one of pet peeves. I see it over and over again. The girls come in, spend a lot of time on hair and make-up, then never work the floor. They spend much of their time in the dressing room....manager comes in and kicks them all out.....they make a walk-around....come back to the dressing room and bitch that no one is buying dances. If you choose stripping as your career, I think there is plenty of money to be made - but you have to WORK at it....afterall it's a job, not all fun and games. You can have fun, but the successful girls take it seriously and follow the points made my harrydave. I don't mean to indict all dancers, but it's mostly a problem with young, new girls.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  Yes it is obvious. But when I raised the issue I was thinking more in terms of overall strategy rather than the obvious tactics - eg. I've always thought that a girl is better off working in a place where she can be one of the stars rather than a place where there a lot of girls who are better looking than she is. Obviously in any given year the really gorgeous blonde working in the really expensive GC is going to make a ton of money. But how long can she keep that up? I think the highest earners over time are the above average girls with pleasant personalities who work in a local place for a long period of time and have a long list of regulars who come in every week and donate $100 or so each visit. Such clubs usually have little payout so the girls get to keep most of what they take in. In other words, I think a girl who is a 6 or 7 will earn more in a locals place surrounded by 5s than she will in a bigger fancier place surrounded by 9s.
• casualguy

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  17 years ago

  Here's another good one. Dancers may occasionally give their regulars a freebie if the club allows. For instance if the club doesn't get a take on every lap dance, occasionally start on a different song and not count it and/or don't count any partial songs and perhaps even dance an extra song for no extra charge. Works for me to keep me happy and buying even more dances. I wouldn't want a dancer I'm not familiar with dancing an extra song without telling me it was a freebie though.
• chandler

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  17 years ago

  FONDL, you would think that strategy makes sense, but I've known far too many cases to the contrary to accept it as a general rule. There are clubs all around the country where dancers can easily make many times what they could ever make at a humble local joint. For example, I knew girls for whom $300-$500 was a typical night at my home club, where they were among the better earners. However, if they chose to drive 90 minutes to the top Detroit club, they could make $1,000-$1,500 with little effort, even though they were just another attractive face among dozens. That's what they said they liked most about it - they didn't have to struggle like back at their regular club - there were always more than enough big spenders to go around. The main hurdle was being accepted by the club - once they were in, there had to be something wrong with any girl who couldn't make a killing. I know you're talking about longer term earnings, but the plain fact is that the small local places you're fond of aren't where most of the serious money is to be made, even for less than gorgeous girls.
• David9999

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  17 years ago

  HarryDave list is good, however I can add: 1. don't smoke, because their breath will always be bad (long term smokers cannot correct this) - its a huge turnoff for non-smokers, and these girls can miss out on potential regulars JUST for that reason. Try jogging instead of smoking, they will be healthier and won't gain weight 2. Have a 30 second pitch ready, along with with maybe a 2 minute alternate plan and a gracious way to exit when they are turned down and always be polite to the customers turning them down- which usually will be most. Customers remember dancers with an attitude. High earning dancers generally work volume. Most important DON'T argue with a guy when he says no, no matter how slow the club is 3. Pitch anyone and everyone (except in rare cases if the guy completely grosses them out - understandabley they can opt out) This is important because they never know who 1, might become a regular 2. who is a potential high roller 3. or may be both a (future) regular/and high roller - i.e. a goldmine for a dancer 4. boob job - lets say they are flat or an A - make sure they get a doctor that will not oversize the breast - most DDs look fake, add a small C and it looks real on most chicks 5. in high contact states, put your head on the guys shoulder now and then for an in-close style dance, only the most moronic (e.g usually young social misfits) customers are going to mis-interpret this as the dancer wanting to be the guy's girlfriend, 98% of customers will simply appreciate the intimacy factor and not misinterpret the dancers intention 6. shutup about your boyfriend or latest huge (real life) super hot love affair, and if asked - just say you play the field or something similar, customers need to keep the fantasy alive. Married dancers can just avoid the issue or it necessary probably should just concede it, most marriages are far out of the hot romance stage, and that is probably something that s/b admitted if overtly asked 7. very important to get into the dance, like you enjoy it - this has to look authentic. Dancers that appear (real or not) to enjoy giving men pleasure will get more repeat customers 8,use (for want of a better term) the sneaky-kiss on the cheek technique - certain dancers have this perfected. This occurs at the dancer moves their head very quickly toward the shoulder of the customer, they then can sneak this (no germ spreading) little kiss on the guys cheek. Now, I'm not sure if they should (of ones who I know do it) do this with all their first time customers, some discretion may be advised. However, with some customers in a 3 minute dance they can sneak it in 4 or 5 times, and its so quick the customer can barely notice it, but he knows it occurred, and most won't misinterpret it, its adds to the intimacy factor
• DandyDan

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  17 years ago

  FONDL- I'd have to agree with that strategy, but it also requires work to go from the newbie at a club to the star, which is a transition I've only seen my current favorite at my favorite club make. I remember her from my second favorite club, but she was just a face in the crowd there. She says she makes at least twice as much money a week in her current situation than before, and it might be even more now since her boobjob. I'd also add 3a. to David9999's list, which is always ask anyone who tips at the stage for a private dance. I find it bizarre at some clubs that I will tip them and then they either go hide out in the dressing room or go to the bar (if it isn't a BYOB facility). You'd think if a guy tips them that that is a potential big money source, especially if they dress a certain way. I think for some dancers, specialization might be the order of the day, like be the S&M dancer, or the Goth chick. It probably helps to be like that away from the club, but it could be something to consider. It probably sounds gross, but I've seen a girl who was the star of the club, at least for that club and day, by being the Fat Chick. Granted, the place was something of a hell hole, but she was the worst looking girl in the bunch and also making the most money, although that probably came from working the hardest.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  DD, the point I was trying to make is that there are older dancers all over the country who have been working at the same club for 20 years or more, and who have a steady stream of guys who come in to see them every week because these dancers have learned the value of treating customers with respect. IMO, these are the industry's top earners. As well they should be. I was watching a football game yesterday and the announcers were going on and on about how hard one of the young players worked during the week and how it set him apart. In other words, most of them don't do that, even when there's millions involved. How many of us do everything we can to maximize our income? We all know how, it's no big mystery, but we don't do it. IME few people do. Why would we expect strippers to be any different?
• casualguy

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  17 years ago

  I believe for a lot of people if they have a choice between a whole lot of extra work for a little bit of extra money, they'll pick the easy road. I'm glad many dancers are like me and aren't necessarily trying to maximize how much money they make. However not gouging the regular customer might be a good tactic by itself. I think I spend more on regular favorites than the occasional hot dancer. One thing I really do not like is to see a dancer looking all around scouting out her next victim while she's doing a table dance for you. Lots of eye contact or at least giving the appearance of being interested in the customer during the dance is important too. Who wants to keep getting dances from a girl who keeps turning her back looking at everybody else? Unless she knows the guy likes her rear view better than her front.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  Casualguy, some people try to maximize income in the short term, others take a longer term view. That's true in every field.
• David9999

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  17 years ago

  If they want high incomes, these dancers have to use the kind of imaging people in sales use: e.g imagine a beach with a 1000 rocks, and under one of the rocks is a 1000 dollar bill, meaning you've got to turn over all the rocks to find the 1000 dollar bill. Now in the case of very young dancers or a dancer with little experience, I can understand why this could be difficult. First of all they've got to get beyond the rejection issue, which is not that easy for many. More importantly, the nature of what they're offering is not exactly a normal sales transaction (especially in high contact states) and effectively in its simplest form is an offer as follows: "How would you like to pay me 30 dollars/per 3 minute song where I will promise (while you will stay fully clothed) that I will strip completely naked and dance for you and I will also rub my naked ass at a rapid rate against your (presumptively) errect penis and will also stick my tits in your face which you can lick, suck-on, or kiss" The only answer for these girls is to shoot for the big money, and let the rest take care of itself.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  David it's a little more complicated than turning over rocks, which rocks they select and how they turn over the rocks are vitally important. The girl who just goes from guy to guy saying "wanna dance?" isn't nearly as likely to find the $1,000 bill as the girl who targets fewer guys and approaches them very carefully. Some girls just don't seem to know how to do that. There's real skill involved which seems to come naturally to some girls but not others. Some girls are genuinely interested in the customers and some aren't, and it really shows. I'm not sure that's something they can learn.
• David9999

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  17 years ago

  Of course its more complicated than turning over rocks, however w/o turning over rocks in volume these girls are seriously hurting their earnings potential. An attractive dancer working volume in this business has far higher odds of being successful than some kind of complicated/complex pick-the-right customer strategy. These girls have no idea by looking at a guy: 1. who has cash on them 2. who is rich and who is poor 3. who is or isn't a cheapskate 4. what particular guy might be especially attracted to them 5. who might become a potential regular 6. who might be a high roller. True, there are generalized superficial indicators that provide hints, sometimes very good hints, however excessive pre-sorting of clients will only hurt them long term. Of the high earners I am personally aware of, they work some variation of the "wanna dance" strategy and usually are around 8 level (now and then higher) dancers, and (often) are non-american and see dancing as a huge opportunity,- plus they invariably do a very close-in style dance with a exceedingly high level of intensity and make it appear (fake or not) that they enjoy giving dances. Maybe the 2 to 3 song or longer conversation (hope they dance) technique works for certain girls -however I believe its a time waster for many dancers and a good way to fail in this business.
• David9999

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  17 years ago

  By the way, as for a dancer being (at initial contact with a client) being "genuinely interested" in a customer, the pre-dance extended conversations are as fake as they come, and only the most gullible customer would not notice this. A dancer BY HER DANCE and the quality of that dance is how she actually shows her interest, with actions meaning more than words. However if she spends 1/2 of each evening trying to pre-sort potential clients, then doing the pre-dance "convo" (as they call it), then not even getting the dance with many - she's not going to be able to show the customers this kind of interest, because she's simply not going to have have many customers to dance for. Conversation and "interest" (to the extent it can ever exist), can happen later either during the dance or later with a repeat type customers
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  David, my ATF is genuinely interested in people until they give her a reason not to be; she loves to meet new people and was genuinely intrested in a lot of her customers. She also avoided customers who she perceived as being cheap, especially the young punks who were numerous in her club, and she never did the "wanna dance" routine. She spent a lot of time with me over a period of several months before I ever started to spend any real money on her (I was a regular of one of the other girls), and she did the same with other customers as well. Those were big reasons why she was the top earner in her club. It's also how she became my ATF. You can't fake that genuine interest thing for very long.
• casualguy

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  17 years ago

  I think it's true that a majority of dancers you just met will strike up a conversation just to try to get a dance. However a few do seem more interested. I'm not sure if its the customer they're interested in or a female thing where they like to find out more about you in 5 minutes than your buddy from work may know after a few years. At times it does seem like an interview process and the dancer is interviewing the customer.
• chandler

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  17 years ago

  Asking "wannadance" indiscriminately doesn't give strippers any better idea who the best prospects are than looking at them does. The only kind of place where the "wannadance" routine pays off is the extreme lapdance factory, where it's all about volume. At most good money clubs I know of, it would eliminate most of their best customers, who reserve their spending for more personal treatment. The top earners understand this and cater to it, using their experience with a range of clues to zero in on prospects.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  I agree Chandler. I also think the biggest earners stay at the same club for a long time rather than bouncing from club to club. That way they develop a large group of regulars, and the only time they have to do any prospecting is when one of them isn't there, which for a really successful girl isn't very often. In most clubs, regulars are where the real money is.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  I meant to add an example to my previous post but was interrupted. Here it is. The club where my ATF worked is open 2 pm to 2 am, 6 days a week. A lot of the girls don't like working week days because the place is often pretty empty. But they have to work some of them or they aren't allowed to work weekend nights, which is when they can make the most money. So the girls who can invite their regulars to come see during the day, then they just sit with their regulars unless somebody asks them for a dance while they're on stage. That's what my ATF always did with me. It worked out really well for both of us - she didn't have to work very hard and still made some money, and I got to spend more time with her. So she always did OK during the day - me plus stage tips plus an occasional dance from someone else - while some of the girls made next to nothing.
• chandler

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  17 years ago

  Well, I wouldn't cite any of my faves as the best example of a top earner. Most of them did well, just not the very best. And I don't agree that it's necessary to stay a long time at the same club. I know of some girls who moved around when they felt like it and always picked up new regulars quickly. All I can say from what I've seen is that the wannadance strategy produces no better than middling results. The big bucks come from observing and learning how to find where there's serious money to be made and making the effort to earn it. Girls with that ability can apply it in a lot of different clubs.
• David9999

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  17 years ago

  The "wannadance" types don't need at the initial contact point to know what customers fit what exact classification - its irrelevant. Note high volume "wannadance" dancers (e.g I've noticed on the Pink site self-described high earners often seem to classify themselves this way also) do not avoid all conversation, however its much more concise with the idea of not getting bogged down with one customer who many times doesn't end up producing any income for the dancer. As for lap factories, that's where many of the big earners are anyways, and of course such lap factories also usually include extentive CR setups in the same club
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  The good ones have different tactics depending on how busy the club is. During off hours when it's empty, they arrage to meet with their regulars and they spend a lot of time with them. But the regulars don't come in when the place is really busy because then the girls are moving from one customer to the next as quickly as they can. But there's never a need to approach customers, guys ask for dances when they tip the girl on stage, and she simply moves from one to the next until her next stage dance. So the good ones almost never have to take the initiative, once they've been there awhile.
• casualguy

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  17 years ago

  I think if you're at a club encountering a number of "wanna dance?" dancers, the dancers must be having a lot of success moving around asking lots of customers for a dance. It's true they could sit and talk for 5 to 15 minutes, or else if the club was crowded, they could ask 10 to 20 guys in less time and get a dance, maybe faster than that if several guys are getting ignored due to the club being crowded. If the dancers are just temporarily working at the club, they don't care anything about getting regulars. If that strategy isn't working, then the dancers would act like a mouse in a cage and figure out the way to get to the cheese isn't by walking around asking everyone "wanna dance?" I'm wondering how long it takes to get dances asking a ton of guys "wanna dance" versus sitting and talking. If she just sat and talked to me for 10 minutes and I turn her down, she just wasted that time as far as maximizing her income (unless I get a dance from her later in the night). I'd say it depends if the club is a lapdance factory and whether or not the club is crowded with lap dance customers.
• DandyDan

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  17 years ago

  I have to agree with FONDL as to sticking with one club vs. going from club to club. Sticking to one club exclusively makes things predictable. You get one bunch of regulars. You only have to deal with one manager, or one management group. You know exactly how much gas you will need in a week, since you know exactly how far it is from home to club. Etcetera, etcetera. But I can also see Chandler's point about not staying at the same club. My ATF, in her dancing prime, had a rotation of clubs she went to, so she got to cultivate several groups of regulars. Sure, she had to deal with different managers, but if one went bad, she could always go to one of the other ones and make as much money. The girl who always sticks to the same club is in a hole if the management goes bad there. I would think as long as a dancer stuck to working at X number of clubs without ever going over that she could do all right for herself. There's still a level of predictability in her life that she can control. Sure, she'd have to pay for gas and lodging, but she can control that reasonably. It's not like she goes to a new club and wears outfits only at that club. Of course, they do have to control their wanderlust a bit.
• chandler

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  17 years ago

  Dan: Those seem to be sound considerations for most strippers. What I took exception to was that sticking with one club was crucial for the biggest earners, and by that, I mean more industry-wide, not "big fish in a small pond". Many top earners go where the money's at. Gas mileage and house fees don't dissuade them from going where they can make an extra $500-$1,000 per night.
• FONDL

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  17 years ago

  Truth be told, if a dancer regularly goes to a gym and stays (or gets) fit and she develops a positive and friendly attitude so that she's fun to be with, she's going to make good money no matter what her strategy or where she works. Being attractive and pleasant are the most important things by far.
• casualguy

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  17 years ago

  Very true FONDL.
• DandyDan

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  17 years ago

  Chandler- I can agree with your point. I think my ultimate point is a dancer can make more the more predictable she can make her job, whether she works at 1 club or several.
• David9999

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  17 years ago

  It's a real plus for a dancer (e.g her back to you) if when grinding or just swinging that ass when she's slightly away frm the grind - if her hairstyle happens to be long enough that her hair is also swinging. Now classic case would be a pony tail, although I don't see that much, but other hairstyles are very good swingers, and the overall result is very very sexy. I am continually amazed at the variation in quality of lap dances within the same club among different dancers. Some girls obviously put a lot of planning into and others just don't seem to have any plan at all.