OT - Lease or Buy

Sounds like you drive a lot. Leases have mileage limits. If you go over that limit, you will pay extra. And I have heard it is a LOT extra.

Lease and buy extra miles upfront if you think you will need them. Try to keep it at 3 years so you can get rid of the "negative equity" aka debt. Payment will likely be less even with no money down.

I donr think I drive a lot at all, it already had a bunch of miles on the used car when I bought it.

"... I don't drive that much, definitely less than 1k a month ..."

That's probably below avg for many people - AFAIK typical leases are about 12000-mi/yr

My friend said sometimes the lease is 10,000 miles a year, and i think i drive less than that, but i guess I'm not 100% positive

When you buy a new car, the biggest cost is that first year depreciation. It's real costly to buy new cars every 2 or 3 years. That is where a lease makes sense. You want to change vehicles every so often, want something new and don't drive a lot. The car will never be yours and your payment goes to someone else. But if you are buying the car for those same terms, then you are making bigger payments and you will never get any equity anyway. If you are the type of person that keeps a car for a long time, then you are better off buying it because eventually the payment goes away. I don't buy New cars. I buy CPO ( certified pre owned). Go to the dealership and they will have barely used cars. Someone else got hit with that first year depreciation but it looks like you got a new car. I've done this 4 times now. The dealership will give you the same or maybe even better warranty than a new one. No one knows you dont' have a brand new car expect you. It will save you thousands.

I've never leased a car and I'm not a leasing expert - AFAIK w.r.t. per month payment, a lease will often be less than if one bought the same car since one is kinda paying for the amount of time one will own the car vs paying for the whole car (although it's more complicated than that) - many people lease b/c they can then "afford a car" they would not o/w afford, they can drive a nicer car since the lease payment is less than the loan payment if one bought it.

Again I'm not an expert on the subject, but I "believe" a rule-of-thumb is how long one plans to keep a car if they bought it - i.e. if one buys, then the longer one keeps-it then the more financial sense it makes; but I'm not sure where the breakeven-point is in terms of how long one needs to own the car for it to make better financial sense - many people like driving a new car every few years and leasing may likely make more sense there.

When it comes to buying or leasing cars, there can be a lot of gotchas so one needs to do their research and I imagine there are resources on the web that can help you understand when leasing vs buying makes sense - AFAIK insurance is typically higher with leases, and there are also issues with wear-and-tear charge$ when one turns in a lease, etc - again you should research on the web and educate yourself but a lot of people lease these days.

Lastly, cars are getting very expensive and complicated these days, and owning a car out of warranty is also something to consider (when one plans to own a car for a fairly long time)

From a pure financial standpoint, the cheapest way to own a vehicle is to buy a new desirable, reliable, popular vehicle with a good warranty ( like Hyundai’s 5/10 year warranty ) then keep the vehicle for at least 5 years. Ten years is better. This approach works out to about $200/month.

If you lease a vehicle, and only keep it 2 or 3 years, the same vehicle is going to cost $400/month, or more.

Post the '08 recession, it seems many people started hanging on to their cars longer and it seems used-car prices shut-up where they were often not necessarily a good-buy in terms of what one was getting; seems these-days dealers make a much higher profit on used cars than new ones - CPO cars are good w.r.t. peace-of-mind, but in the past when I had looked at the CPO prices they seemed high AF very close to new car prices (but I never really looked into it too closely and haven't bought a CPO; I don't switch cars too often).

BTW - you're not the first person to get burned by being referred to a friend-of-a-friend; it's a crapshoot at best - car salesmen #1 priority is to make money for himself and the dealership, not to help out the customer; the more a salesperson "helps you out", the less $$$ in his pocket (a clear conflict-of-intere$t) - one needs to be educated when buying a car b/c when you go buy one you will be dealing w/ someone who is very-educated about cars and does not have your best interest in mind.

Also, go to the local bookstore and invest $10 in the most recent Consumer Reports auto guide. It’s the best resource for things like reliability and performance.

And, next time, buy your car online. Contact the internet department of 2 or 3 dealers and get a detailed quote for the same spec vehicle. Make them specify every line item including tax, title, and the infamous document fee.

It’s my experience that a well negotiated new car, in base model, can usually be purchased for less than a 1 year old used vehicle. Sometimes cheaper than a 2 year old loaded used vehicle. No, I don’t know why that is, but it is.

I dont want to sound ungrateful for all of your advice, but I'd really like someone thats leased a car to chime in and tell me why you decided to lease rather than buy.

I’ve been looking for a new SUV but the thing holding me back is there is always a more advanced vehicle just a few months away. The technology available in base model, affordable vehicles is better than existed in only $100,000 luxury cars just a few years ago.

There are a few models coming out in a few months that sound great. But, by the time they are available, I’ll bet there will be others on the horizon.

I have family members who lease. They do it so than can drive a more expensive car. Period. End of story.

On the other hand... ;-)

Your 4 year-old SUV with only 80K miles and only $18K remaining (approx 3-4 years to pay off @ $460/mo) is a relative bargain. If it's a Toyota, Honda, or other reputable brand, 200K total miles should be easy to achieve. Because you drive 12K miles/year, after 4 more years (at your loan's conclusion), you'll have a paid off car with approx 128K miles. That will allow easily 72K more miles and 6 more years of driving (12K/yr x 6yrs = 72K).

Regarding bluetooth, there are several after-market bluetooth plug-ins for <$20, especially for newer cars like yours - amazon.com

Sounds like you might already have an automotive winner sitting in your driveway... :-)

I'm not sure what happened to the rest of my msg?...

Anyway, as I was saying, there are after-market bluetooth plug-ins for <$20, especially for newer cars like yours... :-)

amazon.com

Arghh! I don't think this text box likes my less-than sign....

One more time - there are after-market bluetooth plug-in for less than $20, especially for newer cars like yours... :-)

amazon.com

I was just getting out of the academy, and my onboarding supervisor put on a bulletin board pictures of all of our class members’ vehicles he took from the Parking lot. He started the presentation by pointing out the two most pathetic old looking vehicles; trash. Supervisor said, “these two people driving these vehicles, they’re going to be wealthy and retired by the time they reach age 50!”

Supervisor continues on to point out a couple people from our class who had big lifted pickup trucks with the big tires, and then onto a BMW and some other luxury cars. He goes in to say “these people driving these vehicles are broke and will have to work forever because their behavior says it is OK to be in debt and pissing money away to banks in interest payments.”

Fortunately you I was the one who’s vehicle was an old used paint faded junker, but it was paid for! Point is, if you’re a working class stiff, which I think you are, it’s always best to buy vehicles outright with cash, and as you save more money you can upgrade to a better vehicle. Automobile debt is the most negative debt, and anytime you start talking in terms of monthly payment, that’s when the car salespeople salivate with sales commissions in their heads. I can set up a monthly payment that can tie you into payments for 10 years. By the time you Pay your car off it will be trashed and ready to suck you out of $$ from your wallet for repairs.

Pay cash for vehicles. If you can’t afford to do that then you shouldn’t own a car. Personal finance 101. These are the basics and if you can’t follow this simple rule you’ll never be able to build wealth. Sorry, but it’s the truth.

There is only one situation where leasing makes financial sense - you want to drive a new car every two or three years.

I don’t lease, but that is because I am unemotional about cars. They are transportation - that’s it.

Based on personal preferences, I optimize for comfort instead of economy. For that reason, I drive a Lexus LS.

As far as style and handling are concerned, I would rather have a BMW or Mercedes than a Lexus. But when you have a Lexus, you rarely have to bring it to a shop for anything other than routine maintenance.

You can not own a BMW or Mercedes without a warranty. The cars look and drive nice, but they are a $5,000+ repair bill waiting to happen,

Finally, if you are looking at a car the right way, then you will buy one that is 3 to 5 years old, then drive it until the wheels fall off.

If you picked the right model of car, you will save enough money that you will not have to worry about payments on your next car.

Unless the wheels are about to fall off your SUV, add a blue tooth device, or even replace the stereo.

w.r.t. @Meat's comment:

Man - new cars have gotten so damn expensive - a nice car is starting to feel as if one was buying a small house

Nearly every car salesman uses a variation of the four square worksheet to close a deal. You look at car price, length of payment, down payment, and interest rate to

1. confuse the customer
2. get them to a monthly payment they can afford
3. close the deal

In most cases, that means stretching payments over many years to bring down the monthly payment. The customer thinks they bargained a great deal. However, the car loan is underwater almost immediately and regret sets in.

so if in reading all of your messages right NONE of you have leased as car but ALL of you are qualified to tell me how to buy a new car, or according to Meat I shouldn't even own a car. So seems like my best option is to keep paying off the car thst I already have for the next 3 years but drive it for 20 more.

Got it, thanks for all the help. Is there a way to close a topic once it's been answered?

Here’s a little known car that exemplifies a lot of the issues. The Kia Stinger is a hatchback sport sedan. It’s exceptionally well equipped and has performance similar to BMWs and Audis. Unlike those cars, it is extremely reliable and has a 10 year warranty.

However, no one is buying them because it says Kia on the badge. The retail starts around $33,000 but you can find new Stingers advertised around $25,000. In every way, it’s comparable to a $45,000 BMW hatchback 4 series.

In Meat’s allegory, this is a car that the future millionaire would drive. The future poor person would never drive it because their ego can’t be seen in a Kia.

The fact that most on here are not leasers, but yet have the mean$ to spend big $$$ on dancers, should tell you something

In our society a car is often a "status symbol" so not uncommon for many people to pay thousands more for just the badge on the car

FrankieJay420

You remind me of my algebra students, when they were learning about word problems about percentages and interest rates.

“Where in real life am I going to use this stuff?”

I would tell them; “Almost everything involves taxes and loans this days”

Back to your question; I did lease a SUV for a loved one, but we went in with everything and more that is mentioned In YouTube videos about how to deal with car salesmen.

m.youtube.com

And yet we still fell the deal wasn’t all good, but it was good enough, because we could have paid for the car in cash if we wanted.

Nevertheless a lease is almost like renting a car from a rental company you pay insurance, mileage etc.

We all are aware that more than half of the car salesmen deals are a ripoff, so why do people still deals with them is beyond me.

Trading your existing debt for a newer potential bigger, worst debt doesn’t make any sense.

My advice is; sell you car yourself, not to a dealership, but to a private person that really needs and want your car, you can even transfer the loan you have to the other person.

Then buy a no more than four year old Toyota or Lexus for a private party that you can pay cash for.

You should take the potential car you are buying to a mechanic you can trust or an independent triple A mechanic that will let you know if the car is worth buying or not.

Alternatively you can buy a new Prius with all the bells and whistles you really need and use it for Uber and Lift as a female drivers for female customers only, because it is a good safe market.

“Live below your means, but within your needs”

@CJ Kent. - with the exception of the age of the car, I agree with everything you said.

If your Lexus or Toyota has been maintained regularly, and it doesn’t have a salvage title, getting something older than 5 years really isn’t a problem.

I am on my second Lexus. I had my first for 14 years. Mechanically, it was still fine when I got rid of it. The problems it had were things like the leather interior wearing out. Also it could have used a new paint job. But for a car that spent 20 years in the desert, neither of those things are shocking.

If you go Toyota or Lexus and maintain your vehicle normally, you will get sick of it long before the cost of keeping it on the road forces you to replace it.

And not only do you save money by not having to make car payments, but with no loan you can avoid comprehensive insurance and just go with lisbility. Tags are a lot cheaper too.

OP acts like a typical stripper. She gets mad when she doesn’t get her way. Anyone who can do simple math knows leasing a vehicle for personal use is worse than owning. It’s like saying “has anyone ever rented a place to live?”

Unless someone is in a position to use the tax benefits of a lease it makes no financial sense, think about it like this you will pay full freight for the period that you use the vehicle, but someone else is going to get the benefit of the paid for vehicle, talk about spending good money and having nothing to show for it. I lease vehicles for my business to use, but my personal vehicle is my own, never lease an auto for personal use, that's just a giant money suck. I always buy new, usually wait for a downturn in the economy, at the point the dealers offer zero interest, or extremely low interest financing, that's when I purchase. My personal opinion is buying used cars is a bit of a crapshoot, the kind of vehicle you get at the lower end is usually a problem, and on the upper end, more expensive than buying a good new car and keeping it for double the amount of time it took to pay for. And as far as buying cars from friends, most auto sales people are like strippers, very few are reliable or trustworthy.

Frankie, the only person that can stop a thread is Founder. After you start them, they have a life of their own and can get off topic. But what you will realize after being on this board for a while. There actually are a lot of educated, intelligent guys on here. If everyone is telling you the same advice, then you might listen to it. If you want to get a new car every few years, then a lease is going to get you the lowest payment. But in the end, its not the best deal.

Meat, i'm not mad that I'm not getting my way, but I was hoping someone that has actually leased a car would respond. the fact that 20 of you that HAVE NOT LEASED A CAR responded with your advise on buying a car that has ranged from, buy a new one it's cheaper, buy a used one it's cheaper buy from a private party, sell your car to a private party, if you don't have 40k in cash then I should apparently take my kids on a bus. Buy a preius and then become an uber driver. None of those comments help me any more. I get that none of you think a lease is a good idea. So I'm ready to drop the thought of a lease. You guys win, congratulations. I'm following your advise. we don't need another post that tell me not to lease, because I'm not going to lease, end of story, the thread is done. it would have however been nice if 1 fucking person that has leased a car would have responded and said. You know what, I leased and I kind of regretted it later on. Or I was in a similar situation and I did a lease and everything turned out ok. But no, I don't get that, I get mansplained by 20 different guys how to go buy a car, or not even own a car. I'm no longer in the market for a car. I'll just keep driving my car and keep making payments and that's the end of it. You all win and you're all smarter than a stripper. Thanks for the advise. no more posts are need.

I will try to keep this brief. I’m leasing - and I’m actually financing - two different cars currently.

The leased car is for my oldest daughter. She just turned 18, and I got her a car for her last year and a half of high school. I don’t want the car long term - and she doesn’t put many miles on it - so I leased it for 3 years. When she’s home from college, she will have something to drive - so that’s it.

I got a loan for a car that I drive, and I plan to keep for about 10 years. I was going to pay it off after 4 months, but I haven’t yet. I plan to put lots of miles on it, and it is a good long term vehicle.

Remember, when you lease, lots of dealers focus on monthly payment. That’s not what you want. It’s the same as buying - as you negotiate the price of the car first. Then you use the agreed upon price when calculating the lease payment and residual (and mileage allowance). When a dealer gives you a low purchase price, be careful when they calculate your lease payment, as they will try to add some unneeded extras (all dealer installed) to help their margin.

Thanks cash

@FJ I’m leasing eight vehicles for my business and if you put a down payment on the vehicle your getting screwed, plus you need to negotiate the money factor (interest rate) prior to as well as the mileage and the wear and tear rate, if you think that you’re getting a good deal, compare it to buying a lower cost new car with no money down, Do what you like but you have recieved good advice from many here.

@TwentyFive - I have never leased (nor would I consider it), but don't you also have the ability to negotiation the residual value of the car when you turn it back in?

From my understanding, the reason lease payments are lower than purchase payments is because you are financing the amount of money the new car you are given will depreciate ocer the life of the lease.

Therefore initial value, residual value, and interest rate are all variables that can vary - and therefore should be negotiated.

^ absolutely but she doesn’t have the opportunity to negotiate any of that she’s basically walking into a dealership with a huge sign around her neck that says I’m here take my money

Thanks TwentyFive.

@FrankieJay - I am not a leaser, but given the variables that I mentioned a couple posts about this one, if I were to lease a car, I would take the time to understand how quickly various vehicles/brands depreciate.

Without Googling the subject, I know that Lincolns suffer the fastest depreciation, and that Toyota and Lexus are among the slowest depreciating cars.

I'm no longer in the market for a car. I'm not walking I to a dealership for several years. Leasing is no longer on the table. When I do decide to buy a new car I will follow all the advice already given here. Thank you all for your advice, I'm so lucky to have so many nice guys explain all of this to me. I appreciate you all. I really do, this isn't sarcasm. But I really just want my email to stop telling me that this post has new comments lol

Frankie is angry, but clearly the constant in this equation is that nobody in their right mind will lease, unless you have a business to right off for taxes. Maybe that kind of straight forward advise (or advice) is the type of nuance she is missing? That kind of behavior screams she is broke looking for more subscribers to her fans only page. Post link to it please!

You can also choose the feature that doesn’t send you a notice to your email. Good advise right there.

Frankie your past agression not withstanding but you should go to your profile and uncheck the box that says to notify you when someone posts just a bit of helpful advice, nothing to do with buying a car

why is some of you guys have to insult me and say I'm angry and I'm a head case. I'm thanking you for your advice. I'm taking your advice. I don't want to lease a car anymore. I'm not broke, but I'd love more subscribers to my onlyfans page, but that has nothing to do with my car. My car payment is higher than I wish it was, my car isn't as nice as I wish it was. My friend suggested looking into a lease. I asked you guys what you thought, you guys all told me it was a bad idea, and then told me a lot of stuff that doesn't really pertain to my situation. So I took your advice that leasing was not good and I have now decided not to lease. I'm not angry. I do wish my phone would shut the hell up. And now you guys gave me advice on how to turn off the notifications, which I'm about to do. I don't know how to thank you guys without sounding sarcastic. If a lease is a bad deal then thank you for talking me out of getting myself into a bad deal. I truly appreciate it.

for my next trick I'm going to ask you guys who you think I should vote for in the November election, but i'll save that for the politics group and wait until the notifications are turned off lol

"for my next trick I'm going to ask you guys who you think I should vote for in the November election, but i'll save that for the politics group and wait until the notifications are turned off lo"

who ever said strippers weren't smart ? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I turned the notifications off. so feel free to keep this thread going.

what do you guys think of undercoating, is that a good deal lol or their prepaid maintenance packages? Now I'm being sarcastic

and check out my Onlyfans and Instagram accounts ;) linktr.ee

I vote that’s you should be friends with NinaBambina. You have a lot in common with her. That would be my advise. That and maybe joining stripperweb for the type of responses you’re looking for. You see, TUSCL is like an NBA locker room and you need to be in the WNBA locker room.

In fairness, a lot of people lease cars. For example, a staggering 77% of BMW transactions are leases.

cartelligent.com

not sure why I need a wnba locker room. you guys gave me the answer I needed. You just kept giving me the answer I needed even after I said I didn't need the answer anymore. And then just to make sure I got it, you gave me the answer I needed a few more times even after I begged you to stop giving me the answer I needed. Yes, I was hoping to hear 2 sides of the coin and just not a one sided answer, but I realized that maybe there is only 1 side because the other side is so bad that no one ever does it. So I may just be a dumb girl, but I really did listen to you guys. I really was just getting annoyed that my phone was blowing up when I'm already past this, and NOT going to get a lease. But that's ok, maybe I'll go hang out in the wnba locker room for a while because I can't handle you boys lol

@Mark94, that's not surprising at all. BMW's aren't reliable, and they are expensive to repair. Owning one that is out of warranty makes no sense at all.

Not a BMW, but before I got my first Lexus, I was looking at a Mercedes S600 coupe. I was looking at a used one that had 60,000 miles - it was a beautiful car.

What turned me off against it was that the owner had $20,000 in repair receipts.

Nice, round numbers like that do a good job of conveying a message - it costs $1 every 3 miles to drive the car. And that was during the period of it's life that it is least likely to need to visit the mechanic.

BMW's are no different, and it is insane to own one that isn't under warranty.

I echo Meat wrt Nina and petition ya two have a joint and a joint OnlyFans together. Call me signed up ;)

NAAAASTY

^^^ lol. Snark! snark!

I think I'm falling in love with frankiejay

⬆️ Founder, You are not alone.

@Founder and Fishhawk - did the free blowjob tour just make it to you guys?

@Frankie - if you do go to a WNBA locker room, make sure that you bring a camera. Also, it would help if you made out with a few players.

I’m think solely of content for your Only Fans page.

FrankieJay, I used to sell and leasing is a good option in your case. With leasing you only pay for the part of the car you use. Look for a vehicle with a high residual, such as a popular SUV or something you are upsidedown in your present vehicul. The higher the residual the lower the lease payments. Understand that you are upside down in your present vehicle which means you owe far more than it's worth. Yes, they robbed you on that one and it may take two more vehicle leases or one lease and then a purchase to get this all resolved. You're young and have plenty of time, just take a knolegeable person with you. Also, you call always deal completely on line and avoid the harsh dealership factor. I can say a lot more in detail but this is the gist of it.

Sorry for the typos, couldn't see what I was typing. Forgot one thing, pre paying for miles over what is included in the lease is far cheaper than paying for the extra miles at the end of the lease. The prepayed miles are included in your monthly and, if you prepay for miles you don't need you will be reimbursed at the lease termination.

I am in agreement with Founder.

FrankyJay420 showed a great sense of humor playing along with us boys! I like that!

Playing along, wtf? I was 1oo% sincere!

Grifters! They’d all make for a good president. Ask Randumbmember. He’d agree.

I'm not talking about all that dammit, I'm talking about buying a car. (James Gregory paraphrase). Look him up, funniest man in,American. com or something like that. His humor ir great.

Man FJ420 threads are the new hotness on TUSCL!

youtu.be. Can't say that I am not. Can't subscribe to the only fans but I will surely follow you here lol.

Yes. Middle age men love to see dumb girls.

I like that she was giving it as good as she was getting it! A hottie with a sense of humor!

ok, so I haven't been checking this thread since I turned off the notification, and suddenly all the posts are being nice to me again lol. Thank you Cash, TFP, Goodclubrep, Winex, Fishhawk❤, and founder for the kind words.

Winnex, yes, I'm to the F's now on my cross country BJ tour, that's why fishhawk and founder now like me so much. And Goodclubrep knows he's gonna get his soon, so he wants to be extra nice so I'll give the balls some much needed attention too ;)

And I'm not sure about videoing inside the WNBA locker room. I think only twentyfive would be into that kind of testosterone 🤣😂

Actually Twentyfive, I'm sorry i'm picking on you. I'll try to stop doing it, but I'm still sad that you're the only one that refused my blow jobs. Also, didn't you put me on ignore?? Maybe by the time I get to the T's you'll reconsider.

I'm still having fun here, so just because I get a little feisty every now and then that doesn't mean I don't have a smile on my face while i'm typing.

See Frankie the reason I don’t think you and I could hit it off, because you thrive on unnecessary drama, I’ve not been mean to you I don’t care enough to bother, I did try to be nice to you but you just don’t appreciate it so I’ll go back to paying you no nevermind

twentyfive, i ripped on you and then immediately apologized. You also called me a troll, so I took that as you being mean.

And I don't thrive on drama in any way. But I'm not gonna just take it when some of you start generalizing about me. I've been here what a week and I've been called a head case, a troll, angry, broke, a "typical stripper" (which by the way I'm an exceptional stripper lol) and probably a few more things that I can't remember. I'm not any of those things.

I called you a troll because you got angry when I declined to be a member of your train, other than that I don’t get into name calling so if you have a beef be specific don’t accuse me If something that I haven’t done.

^ IOne last point ive been going to strip clubs since before you were born, just because I don’t feel you or think of you as my type doesn’t earn you one drop of respect to call a guy who isn’t interested gay, that’s typical of the door hangar that tries to leech on to a new guy and it doesn’t work, Frankie , better you realize that every guy has a type and it’s not always gonna be you.

twentyfive, when was the cross country blow job tour a train? YOU are the one that keeps turning it into this room full of erect dicks and I'm just blowing them one after another. and second, it was a joke, and your post was basically, I'd like to opt out of this joke. Just don't post anything at all, and you've already opted out of the joke. I'd never know your name if you just didn't post stupid shit.

I'm calling you gay because what every other guy is picturing is picking me up from the airport or me showing up at their house and getting a free BJ, and somehow your imagination is full of guys lined up shoulder to shoulder and it's just a room full of dicks that I'm blowing . That seems a little bit gay to me.

So now, you insult me again, calling me a door hangar and leech. I fully know I'm not every guys type. I've been dancing a long time and I've been rejected by a lot of guys, so I'm well aware I'm not every guys type, and if I'm not you're type that's fine, but I think you got some kind of underlying homoerotic thing going on if you keep picturing a room full of cocks. You've never once denied that's what you were picturing. I guarantee the other guys here that saw that post and laughed didn't picture being in a room with 800 other naked guys. So you got SOMETHING going on inside of that head of yours. And I now withdrawal my apology from earlier. You're clearly gay, this site is like your beard. "I'm not gay I post dumb comments on a strip club forum, so obviously that makes me straight" no, no it doesn't dude. you're gay and the sooner you admit it, the sooner you can start blowing dudes and find that inner happiness. Now put me back on ignore and stop trying to make my posts all about your homosexual fantasies.

Yeah, you are right, WNBA players are kind of masculine.

Maybe you could make out with some of their cheerleaders. Or do they have men cheerleaders?

Add a sound system w "bells and whistles" (bluetooth/nav/apple car play/rear camera) to your 2016 vehicle and drive it until the vehicle tells you that it's unreliable! I'm just another Tuscler who has ignore the confines of your question.