Interesting that there are new Covid death projection models showing hundreds of thousands will die from reopening yet the governor's show no appetite to keep the lockdown in place.
I think the country will reopen and this will just run its course unless there are visible dead bodies in the streets.
Agree, the hospital overflows and triaging who lives and dies has been avoided. We can't wait any longer. There's a drug that shows some efficacy against it already approved. Cautious reopening in phases where it's worst, more aggressively where it's not, is reasonable
Have these guys with these models been anywhere close to being right so far ? First the say 3 million, then 200 thousand, then 80 thousand, then 60 thousand. The governors have been talking about opening up for weeks now. So all of a sudden the models change again up ? Are these guys even aware of what is being discussed out in the world ?
No treatments coming online now should greatly reduce the deaths. Hospitalizations are going down everywhere. I don't think the models have any more credibility any more.
People just don’t give a fuck now.
I’ve been out in the public since day one of this, every day... and starting late last week my state started easing restrictions. Up until this week people were being conscious to keeping the guidelines in place - business employees as well as most customers - now this week it’s off the chains. Since the easement into opening back up people have quickly relaxed their guidelines and it’s going to bite some people in the ass real quick.
We all gotta live, and that means work for most of us, but don’t be stupid. Stay safe, be smart.
What they call the "model" is called the "shell game" on Boston Common.
Wisconsin supreme court gon' invalidate that state's shutdown entirely, so we'll see shortly what happens if everything opens up entirely
Glad I am not a Doctor or Nurse in Wisconsin
From the beginning, most responsible medical and governmental leaders have been predicting (once we get past the initial surge) a series of localized tightening and loosening measures as various localities experience spikes and reductions in cases.
And yes, the models will continue to produce updated numbers as we learn more about the virus and the level to which the general public various disease control measures.
It is inevitable that there will be flare ups, but I doubt that there will be any more shutdowns. No state or municipality can afford to do it again.
You also can't "toggle" (as the moron governing CA suggested) an economy - it just doesn't work like that. Once the economy starts to open, a second shutdown will finish off a number of already teetering businesses. Also, states got away with it the first time mostly because of federal government largesse (stimulus check, unemployment and PPP loans). There is likely not much more of that coming either.
And we're not even talking about public sentiment here. Once things are loosened, there won't be too much public appetite for going back to lockdown mode, especially without all of that federal money to cushion workers once again sent home.
So moving forward states are just going to have to find a way to manage with more targeted measures. I think they realize all of this, which is why many states are dragging out the opening processes as long as they can.
In a year, or two, when this whole CoVid thing has played out, we’ll realize that most of these experts developing models and telling us what to do, were fucking idiots on a power trip.
Just out of curiosity is anyone who disagrees with y’all’s extreme Trumpublican philosophy an idiot or a moron ? I can’t even bring myself to call you guys Republicans because there is nothing in the way this is playing out that would have been considered Republican just a few short years ago.
If I understand what you are saying, Trump supporters should be judged on whether their policies are consistent with prior Republican leaders like McCain, Romney, and Bush. Nothing about that argument makes any sense. We elected Trump specifically because he wasn’t the Democrat-lite professional swamp rat that the power brokers in the Republican Party had forced on us for decades. It took you this long to figure out that Trump isn’t like previous Republicans ?
Look there is reasonable disagreement about a lot of things but that is no reason to just throw up your hands and let every state fend for itself, I am in agreement that we need to open the economy back up, but there is a safe coordinated way to do this, what is happening here is anarchy driven by a very vocal minority this situation is not being handled well and for the most part it feels like common sense is in short supply. I mean reality of wearing a mask to prevent the the spread of this virus is not giving up your freedom any more than preventing smoking in strip clubs or any other inconsistencies that you guys rant about here pretty regularly
It’s not anarchy. It’s federalism. The laboratory of democracy. Fifty states doing what they think is best. As time goes on, it will be clear which approach works best. Other states will adjust their approach accordingly. That’s how the country was designed.
That’s your opinion but it’s far from federalism the country wasn’t designed like this it was actually designed methodically with genuine forethought , not this mish mash of competing without cooperation, you wouldn’t run a sports league like this but a country this is ludicrous you know when you have states competing for medical supplies this is just insanity there are many more examples but I’m tired of this circular argument that you folks constantly make when you know even if you refuse to acknowledge this is nuts
To quote a famous screenwriter “ Nobody knows nothing”. Will there be a second wave ? Will herd immunity work with CoVid ? Is it seasonal ? How soon will there be effective treatments ?
Until we have answers, everyone is just doing the best they can.
Until we have answers, everyone is just doing the best they can.
I agree with that to a certain extent, but I still maintain that cooperation is just about nonexistent, you fellas keep talking about the tyranny of the majority, we’ll this is a perfect example of the opposite a loud minority trying to impose their will on all of us.
Twenty Five the bailout for States are for States that have mishandled their pension obligations and the idea Federal money is going to bail them out of that is a non-starter. It is unfair to taxpayers to bail out big cities run by people hwo bought thrir power. You bought it; you pay for it. By the way how long has the democratic party stood for open borders; approving loans to Iran; #metto for republicans, but not democrats; UBI; Separating people into indidual communities and finding racism as a cause for everything? My Mom was a union teacher and a feminist and voted Trump because although she hated him, he at least seemed American. You may think the Republicans are different than a few years ago and I would agree, but I have trouble looking at Democrats in leadership positions and seeing Americans. So when you say this is nuts; I say this is what democrats asked for. Your party is down to one pro-life democrat in Congress; appears to support Iran; changed the House rules to cater to a muslim, tied the idiot in the white house's hands with their "investigations" which Stalin would have loved, then overplayed their hand in the lockdown and you call republicans nuts? I look at it this way: I dislike the Republicans view of this Country; I hate beyond all belief the democrat's view. I choose republicans.
I’d appreciate it if you stuck to my actual position not your take of my position and then if you chose to disagree we could have the same conversation I haven’t called anyone a racist nor have I ever advocated UBI, another thing y’all like to do is say anyone who is for sane immigration policy is advocating open borders that’s a blatant lie and a disregard for anything factual When you stop misrepresenting most of what I’ve written then we can have a serious conversation, I’m tired of y’all thinking anyone’s view that’s different from your own should shut up, maybe y’all should listen instead. And for the record if the president would be a leader this shit would start to calm down but he is just a decisive demagogue advocating for no one but his own petard.
I post about the Democratic party, like you p[ost about the Republican party; I post facts you cannot refute; you get mad. I will ignore the rest of your drivel and not respond. Join Titty and icey.
The real divide in the country for the last 30 years hasn’t been between Republicans and Democrats. That’s Kabuki theater. There wasn’t a dimes worth of difference between the parties.
The real divide has been between Wall Street, which owned both parties, and Main Street that comprised of small and medium size businesses and the working class. Wall Street, government bureaucrats, and large corporations got rich by sending jobs to China and hollowing out Middle America.
It took 30 years for a politician to step forward and voice what 80% of the country was already seeing in their lives.
Trump is a crude, rude, narcissistic street fighter. He is also the first politician to truly stand up for the working man’s family since Reagan. His opponents thought his grab her by the pussy remark would shock his supporters. They didn't realize that if someone is protecting your family, you don’t give a shit about their table manners.
25, as frustrating as this may be, the very inefficiencies you cited are indeed due to federalism. As set forth in our Constitution:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."
While this makes things more difficult in times like this, it also benefits our everyday freedoms in too many ways to easily count. Inefficiency in our ability to coordinate a national response to a domestic emergency is one of the prices of our freedoms.
As far as "tyranny of the minority" is concerned, do you really believe that this is why states are opening back up? Besides the obvious response that nobody is stopping you from staying home and protecting yourself if you want, the reality is that states are opening up because they have no choice. If they keep it up much longer, they are going to run out of money. It's that simple.
@mark94 - sage words indeed
Mark I agree with you about where the divide exists but not about Trump he is all about self enrichment at our expense but that’s no surprise to me and many others he isn’t standing up for any common man that’s his con job
Well spoken Mark.
@mark94 - bullseye. That's how Trump got elected, and that is how he can get re-elected.
you should be glad trump beat clinton...because it was the beginning of the end for the FBI corrupt practices
These projections are probably wrong. They all have been wrong before
the only model i believe in,, is giving me a lap dance,,,,,,,,,,, with big curve
I don't care if you're a donkey or an elephant or something in between, the bottom line for me is that Trump has no business being the leader of a country much less the leader of a boy scout troop. Can't read, can't spell, can't speak. The guy is a complete failure and only cares about his re-election as is the democratic governor of my state of Washington.
Right, because Hillary was all about preserving the republic and giving power to the people.
Our president should be able to a) read from notes better than at a 4th grade level b) have a vocabulary that doesn't consist of the word "tremendous" or "many, many" in every sentence. c) be able to proof read or at least spellcheck his damn twitter posts (unless he just doesn't understand the word he is attempting to write) d) articulate a complete sentence without stopping, pausing, and continuing on a totally different vein
trump got his diploma from : The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania is the business school of the University of Pennsylvania, a private Ivy League university in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Established in 1881 through a donation from Joseph Wharton, the Wharton School is the world's oldest collegiate school of business. Wikipedia
^ Yet he refuses to release any transcripts . Find a single record of any scholastic accomplishment, even an intra-mural sports participation.
I have to separate Trump the persona from Trump the President, because they have been two very different things.
As a person, he is a loud showman and I sometimes wish that his Twitter account would stop working. Also, I don't blame many old time New Yorkers (current and former) for not liking him as they know his history better than most, including his never-ending publicity stunts and his reputation for stiffing business partners and vendors. Back in the day, any vendor doing business with a Trump entity knew to collect as much as it could upfront and even now a lot of banks and professional investors won't get within a mile of any venture with the Trump name on it.
But as a President, he has kept his campaign promises to the best of his ability, including the tax cuts and renegotiating trade deals, promoted sweeping easing of administrative burdens imposed by an alphabet soup of federal agencies and has exercised great restraint in using the power of the office on American citizens.
So if I have to choose between Trump and Creepy Joe, who has grand plans to take over large chunks of the economy, at least when he can remember what his positions are, I have to hold my nose and vote for Trump again.
just a side note... Bill Gates dropped out of college (Havard) here is a copy and paste (aka SJG) The son of an attorney and a schoolteacher, Gates entered Harvard in the fall of 1973, only to drop out two years later to found Microsoft with childhood friend Paul Allen.May 10, 2010
Paper diplomas don't mean anything. Just listening to a person speak or read tells you all you need to know. (like many professional athletes).
The point is the hospitals can probably handle a reasonable increase now capacity has been built in and it is not exponentially increasing. Regarding leaving your house and doing stuff now ...."You pays your money and you takes your chances"