I think we democrats have learned our lesson and the process will be fair this time. I don't think Bernie will win anyway -- he has little traction in the south. I'm a big Warren fan 'cause she actually knows stuff, but she seems to be slipping. Biden could make a resurgence with the black vote in the south, but he's sounding more and more like a get off my lawn guy. Buttigieg seems like a sellout, but so did Hillary and she won last time. Klobuchar could take off. Bloomberg already won Dixville Notch. By far my main interest is getting Fuehrer Nutcase out of the white house, everything else is secondary.

Loper, imagine how unprecedented all that is. Since 1972, no Dem who didn't win at least one of the first two states has received the nomination, which is what makes NH and IA so important. In this instance, Bernie is on track for a big win in NH and was essentially tied with Mayor Pete in IA, which in any previous year would have all but guaranteed his ultimate nomination.

This year, it's going to be a clusterfuck. Pocahontas doesn't stand a chance, but there are four candidates who do. You're right that Sanders will be weak in the South and I'm not sure how well a gay man will play either. Biden will likely fare well in racially diverse southern states, but Bloomberg is spending a fortune in many Super Tuesday states and may well carve up his share too.

Net-net I'm having trouble seeing a clear path to an undisputed winner anytime soon. I could definitely see Bernie as the front-runner but then getting screwed by the Super-delegates. All his opponents need to do is prevent him from collecting a clear majority. After the first round of voting, the Super-delegates then get to weigh in with their votes.

#FeeltheBern #StolenNomination

Hell yeah, lets feed the Barn!

Don't count Warren out yet. There may be a big drawn out fight for the nomination, but democrats will be completely united around the eventual winner, all of us hating the current occupant so much. To me, that's what counts.

===> "I think we democrats have learned our lesson and the process will be fair this time. "

If you think this, you haven't been paying attention. The process is still rigged, just a little less obvious than before. By moving from a "winner take all" to a proportionate delegate system, the Dems have made it much tougher for any one candidate to gain a clear majority before the convention, especially if 3 or more candidates remain in the race all the way there.

What does this mean? After the first round of voting, which has to be done in proportion to the state results, the delegates become unbound. The Super-delegates then also get to vote.

Why do you think Bloomberg is skipping the first 4 states? Because he knows that he doesn't need to win them to have a chance, he just needs to get enough delegates along the way to make him viable at the convention. Then his billions will do the talking once the first round passes without a majority winner and the delegates become unbound.

#CorruptPartyLeaders #StolenNomination

Warren is done. The whole Native American fiasco is going to follow her around like a horrible smell and make her a never-ending target for ridicule.

#CorruptPartyLeaders #StolenNomination Response #mostcorruptpresidentever #stolenemoluments

Anyone is preferable to Chump even J. Fred Muggs.

^ Thanks for sharing that witty personal opinion 25. Really, that was quite additive. ;)

But like him or not, the reason that someone as brash as Trump was able to make it to the Oval Office is precisely because the Republican Party doesn't corrupt its nomination process. The voters spoke and the party listened. It's too bad that the Dems don't trust their voters the same way.

#RiggedPrimaries #StolenNomination

Hillary's nomination in 2016 was the result of the agreement she and Barry reached on the secret plane meeting, during which she agreed to drop out of the race in exchange for her choice of cabinet positions and the guaranteed nomination in 2016 as his successor.

Bernie and that other guy from Maryland were the only two dems too dumb to see the writing on the wall.

Not really a Democrat dude, the Republicans have left the building all that’s left is a bunch of conspiracy theories and Elvis, and every one knows he’s dead so all you have left is conspiracy theories

===> "Not really a Democrat dude..."

The establishment Republicans were making similar claims about Trump's true affiliations, yet they let the voters make their choice. The smarter boys you grew up with, the ones who went on to study at yeshiva, can no doubt see what is right in front of them, even if you cannot. Of course, the smart ones wouldn't sit on a strip club site trolling with random comments pulled of their asses. 😉

Perhaps. They weaponized the DNC against Sanders shamelessly in 2016, and the Democratic voters punished them for it.

I'd like to believe that the DNC doesn't want a repeat performance, but the Democratic Party's one Jedi mutant power is self sabotage. Case in point... Iowa.

So, we'll see.

Dugan you need to stop with the yeshiva references every one knows you’re an antisemetic asshole, it’s not our fault that those priests fucked you in your ass and turned you gay

@25: How was that antisemetic? I was only making fun of you. I clearly expressed respect for real Jews when I extolled the critical thinking of those who attend yeshiva.

@CMI: I agree that they weaponized the DNC against Sander last time and I'm convinced that they intend to do it again. The new proportionate delegate system means that this will very likely go to a contested convention, where the super-delegates can still sway the results as much as they ever did. The only difference is that it will happen under the cover or darkness and in back rooms instead of publicly. They simply refuse to let voters have the final say.

Kiss my ass Dugan you’re a dyed in the wool bigot while you’re at it go fuck your self faggit boy.

I confess to not being up on the inner workings of the DNC but I thought Perez reformed the rules so that the superdelegates only vote to break a “deadlock.” Maybe I’m wrong on that but deadlock is a long way from “no clear winner.” I’m just watching on the sidelines anyway since I don’t get to vote in the primary.

Hillary won the majority of the delegates anyway.

Correction to my post. I got curious and looked it up. Superdelegates vote if no candidate gets a majority on first ballot. I’m ok if the dems do that. Shouldn’t matter much to Bernie anyway as Bloomberg isn’t stealing votes from Bernie in large numbers. He’ll take from the mods.

Bernie Sanders in New Hampshire trashing that Orange Man ( Neo-Fascist Gangster from the White House ) youtube.com

Chris Hayes: Trump Is Weak, And Beatable | All In | MSNBC youtube.com

Will Progressives Stop Trump? (w/ Ro Khanna) youtube.com

The Danger to Democracy is With Us - Be Worried youtube.com

SJG

TJ Street tuscl.net tuscl.net tuscl.net

The Democratic Party did nothing illegal last time, they rigged it fair and square for Clinton. That's what happens when you make the rules.

Remember, the primaries are not government sponsored elections. The parties act like they are, for the most part, but they're not. They are owned, lock, stock, and barrel, by the parties, and they run them the way they want, according to the parties' rules, not election laws.

^ I'm not sure you got the full takeaway Jimmy.

The most insidious part of the new system is proportionate assignments of delegates instead of clear state winners. It means that if there are 3 or more candidates still in by the convention, it's very doubtful that anybody will have a clear majority. If that happens, then it is automatic that nobody gets a majority in the first round vote and then it becomes a free-for-all, with all delegates unbound and super-delegates allowed to vote.

So in other words, the Dems made changes which on the surface seemed to make things more fair, but then built themselves a backdoor to allow them to bring the super-delegates fully back into play if needed.

Now you might be tempted to sympathize with their lack of trust in their voters after seeing 25's last retarded post, but even still it sucks. If you want to see a stark difference between the character of the two parties, there it is. One trusts its voters to choose and the other does not.

Superdelegates will vote against Bernie

#StolenNomination

Pass the popcorn

Prediction markets >>> Polls

predictit.org

#RiggedPrimaries #StolenNomination

Just imagine if they get to the convention and it looks something like this:

Sanders: 38% Bloomberg: 32% Buttigieg: 24% Others: 6%

Holy shit what a dilemma the party would be facing. Do we advance a guy who we believe will get killed in the general election or do we nominate Bloomberg or Buttigieg and risk splintering the party for potentially a generation?

And you know Trumo will be lobbing grenades in the whole time, tweeting to 70 million people accusations that the Dems want to screw Bernie yet again. 😀

Pass the popcorn indeed.

Keep placing your straw men. I’ll wake up and watch when something actually happens. I still won’t have a vote.

It is like that with the Democrats every 4 years. I have paid close attention since 1972.

It will work out, come down to one good candidate.

Donald Trump is a symptom, not the source of the problem. youtube.com

SJG

@Jimmy: This is far from a straw man, but rather a highly likely scenario given the number of candidates and the delegate allocation structure. Why do you think Bloomberg is wading in where he is? He knows he's too late to the game to win the nomination with a simple majority. For him this is a straight up convention play.

Yang quits the race! His UBI plan will go about as far as SJG’s organization, meaning it is always pending and remains in its infancy.

Would you vote for a Bernie if you were black? Joe Biden said that blacks and minorities won’t vote for Sanders Or Buttigieg. Uncle Joe has gotta go......home.

Dugan give it a rest, you gay guys come up with the goofiest scenarios, just to deflect attention from your proclivities. BTW what is a "real Jew" dumbass motherfucker

^ Got a huge chuckle from that F_L_F 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

Exit polling saying Bernie LOST 43% of his supporters from 2016 NH primary.

Jimmy, that is because there are plenty more attractive alternatives to Bernie this season than there were in 2016 - Buttcheck and Slobuchar. As bad as they are, they're still better than beer-keg legs crooked Hilary.

Meanwhile, Trump got more votes in NH than any incumbent President in history. Just saying.

Live free or die, baby.

Except that all we’ve been hearing is that “the Bernie bros are so loyal they won’t vote for anyone else.” Wrong. Maybe 40% of his support in 2016 was from Never Hillary’s? Don’t believe me? He didn’t lose votes to Warren. He lost them as you pointed out to Mayor Pete and Klobuchar.

Voters in NH didn’t want Bernie in 2016. They just didn’t want Hillary. They also don’t want Bernie in 2020. They want one of the four moderates. This whole thread is based on a false premise that the DNC will need to steal the nomination from Bernie. His only advantage is that the moderates won’t consolidate votes until they stop dropping out while Liz may be out fairly soon.

^ 👍

“Buttcheck” and “Slobuchar”? Really? I never understood this forum’s obsession with modifying names and user names. I can recall any of them being the least bit clever or funny. It’s dumb.

Your avatar, however, is fucking awesome. 👏

^edit - until the moderates START dropping out

OK Jimmy, so which moderates do you think will graciously drop out early enough to ensure that one person has a clear majority going into the convention? Buttitieg, who is running neck and neck with Bernie now? Klobuchar, who is now getting a tailwind? Biden, who knows that this is his very last chance ever and will likely do well in South Carolina? Bloomberg, who is on track to spend over $1 billion in campaign ads by Super Tuesday and is picking up steam in a number of states?

I said Bernie’s advantage is that the moderates won’t drop out. Not exactly a selling point.

Of course the moderates won't drop out, not if they think that this could go to convention undecided. This is especially true if Bernie has the lead going in. And believe me I'm not trying to sell anyone on Bernie, though at least he has character.

But let's also consider this: Let's say that no majority exists by the convention, but that Bernie has the most delegates going in. Then, at the last minute after some backroom horse trading, certain moderate candidates drop out and ask their pledged delegates to vote for [xxx]. Technically this is not a brokered convention since the matter is resolved in the first vote, which means that the super-delegates don't get a say, But it would still mean that the person with the lead would lose the nomination.

That would be very bad for democracy IMHO, nevermind how Bernie supporters would feel.

JimmyMcNulty said "I never understood this forum’s obsession with modifying names and user names. I can recall any of them being the least bit clever or funny. It’s dumb."

It's easy to understand... if you're an idiot 8-year-old child looking for attention at the playground.

This is pure speculation...

I'm curious to see if Sanders at some point offers the VP spot to Buttigieg. They would make an attractive combination of an older far-left liberal and a younger relative moderate.

Considering his age, it's quite possible that Sanders would only serve one term, and Buttigieg is young enough to seek the nomination with some White House experience under his belt.

Buttigieg would need to fall further behind for that to become an option, though.

The idea that Sanders is being screwed is farcical. He's an independent, not a democratic party member and is owed exactly nothing.

Given Bernie’s age and recent heart attack, there is a non-trivial chance that another health concern will pop up before the election. All it would take is a visit to the ER for chest discomfort to end his chances.

I agree with the last two posts by skibum and mark94. Holy fuck. Kill me now. 😉 (throwing in the Dugan winky for good measure to signal the impending apocalypse.)

Dems face a mutiny if they run an all-white ticket. I'm thinking Sanders/Abrams.

Yeah Stacey Abrams who has no job; is a racist; a poor loser and has won nothing will gather in the 11 black people who might vote Trump. Wait until the press goes back to the 70's and 80's where bernie was really anti-american, pro ssoviet and pro communist China. Maybe point out that Vermont rejected his medical plan bullshit once he had to actually tell them how they'd pay for it. Sanders is the perfect example of what is wrong with this country: Became a millionaire many times over on the backs of the taxpayer.

As I write this, Nate Silver's simulations give Sanders a 37% chance of winning and the odds of brokered convention at 34%:

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

So a brokered convention looks pretty likely now -- and based on statistics (not Dugan's goofy paranoia).

I can't believe how poorly Biden and Warren did last night...

The silliest goofiest thought is that the Democrats owe Bernie an Independent, anything, , the nomination is his to win if he can I doubt he will but we’ll see how it plays out.

Warren was supposed to do well in NH because they knew her. In reality, that’s why she did poorly. They know her.

The only positive for Biden, early on, was name recognition. That’s why he did well in early polls. Since then, everything we’ve learned about him is negative.

===> "The idea that Sanders is being screwed is farcical. He's an independent, not a democratic party member and is owed exactly nothing."

Tell that to all the registered Democrats who vote for him. I'm guessing that they won't share that dispassionate viewpoint. If Sanders goes in with the lead and doesn't get the nomination, the shit will hit the fan.

The DNC doesn't owe (or at least shouldn't owe...) anything to any candidate. What they owe is a level playing field so that the Democratic voters can select the candidate they want without bias from on high.

The results in NH show a split in the Democratic party between moderates and progressives. I hope the progressives win because Sanders guarantees another Democratic Party loss. Too funny to think that just 3 years ago all the idiot talking heads we call the "news" were wondering where the Republican party will end up and now it looks like the Democrats split in 2. Too bad Amy Klobuchar is a democrat or I would consider her. As long as the Democrats make no pretense that their goal is to flood thi country with foreignersm they aren't going to win. Fucking migrants.

Bernie is a very strong candidate, and I totally agree with him.

Yang was an extremely good candidate. I disagree with him about Mental Health and Autism. These are just ways to delegitimate people. And most often it starts off being done to children.

To make UBI work, I say we also need a strong public housing offering, Single Payer Health Care, and some kind of free college.

So of these 4, which order should they be done in?

1. Single Payer Health Care ( Medicare for All, w/ cost controls )
2. Free College
3. Strong public housing offering ( Green New Deal, "urban transit villages", large high rises on top of the rail public transit. All services on lower floors. Promoting car free living.
4. UBI, never to be needs tested, but start with upper ages and replace Social Security, then work down in ages.

Do these things and we have a material utopia.

For those who don't like paying higher taxes on large incomes, I will offer them 9mm Mercy.

SJG

Super-delegates aren't allowed to vote on the first ballot anymore. The rules were changed in 2018.

Hey SJG you little sissy boy; 9 mm shoved up your ass would look good ....on you. How about this: no ubi; fuck off to those who live in public housing; no college unless you pay for it; and no health insurance unless you pay for it. We can cure climate change by making sure only those who contribute survive. The added benefit is no more progressives since only hard working usefull people will survive.

"...no health insurance unless you pay for it"

Let me correct that for you: if the challenge to the ACA goes through the courts successfully there's no health insurance if you have a pre-existing condition."

@Skibum: "We can cure climate change by making sure only those who contribute survive. "

What a strange troll...

Skibum, upper income taxes are going up. Ronald Reagan was a stupid mistake.

Like I said though I am offering 9mm Mercy for those who need it.

And no Skibum, even though you sound like a parasite, I would not deny you UBI.

SJG

If they screw Bernie again, I could see a permanent splintering of the Democratic Party.

I can see both parties breaking into two, and then two new parties emerging.

SJG

theadultblog.com

TJ Street tuscl.net tuscl.net tuscl.net

Robin Trower - For Earth Below (1975) youtube.com

Ah, Trump enjoys broad based Republican approval, lol. He has no primary fight to speak of and his policies are broadly popular within the party. I hear that carrots are good for eyesight. ;)

The Dems, OTOH, are a bloody mess. Thus far, there doesn't seem to be a candidate that can pull them together enough to gain strong consensus support. Let's just hope they don't steal the election from Bernie again.

Democrats always fight it out, right up until the convention. Then we band together.

SJG

^ Just ask President Hillary Clinton how the Dems bonded together in 16

Dems did bond together in 2016. They did not vote for Bernie Sanders. More people voted for Hillary Clinton than DJT by a margin exceeding 2.9 million.

SJG

^ They voted for Hillary, and Jill Stein, or whatever else they wrote in.

Hillary lost the votes that mattered by 77. Better try something else.

Hillary Clinton lost the election and the illegal scumbags voting for her in California mean zero. She won the national vote is the mantra of cheaters and Losers.

Democrats did unify behind Hillary Clinton.

We will unify in far greater numbers behind the 2020 Nominee.

SJG

theadultblog.com

TJ Street tuscl.net tuscl.net tuscl.net

Robin Trower - For Earth Below (1975) youtube.com

For those who say that the nomination could never be bought, there has never been someone with as much liquid wealth as Bloomberg. I can tell you that he has been blanketing TVs in Florida for weeks now and today I just heard a radio ad featuring Michael Douglas, who no doubt cost a fortune. And this is early.

I think the nomination has been bought before by Joe Kennedy, for his son Jack, Joe, whom if his wealth was measured by current standards would be pretty close to Bloomberg maybe even richer.

@rickdugan, the DNC is coming to steal it, and Bloomberg's dollars are coming to buy it. Question is who gets there first?

Votes might start going to one of the other Democrats, not the Republican Bloomberg. But no one is going to steal the nomination from anyone.

SJG

They've changed the rules for super-delegates, but I would be not surprised if there's still a provision for them voting against someone the party doesn't like, especially if the convention is as close as some think it will be. If that's the case, the restriction against voting in the first round is effectively no restriction at all.

And I'm voting for this candidate anyway:

tuscl.net

^^^^^^ Great Picture!!!

SJG

===> "@rickdugan, the DNC is coming to steal it, and Bloomberg's dollars are coming to buy it. Question is who gets there first?"

Fear not Tetradon, Bloomberg has already planned for that too. In addition to already spending hundreds of millions on ads, Bloomberg has been seen courting party poobahs in various states. The thought is that if he doesn't win the nomination outright, he can still buy it from the DNC at the cost of substantial funding for various PACs and other issue-specific initiatives.

After all, what's another couple hundred million to a guy already running a multi-billion dollar election campaign? By current estimates, he is worth $55 billion and Bloomberg LP kicks out another $5 billion to him annually in net profits - his business is a money printing press.

Bloombert, a Republican using the Democratic Primaries to launch his campaign.

And then leading to a 3 way general election!!

:) :) :)

SJG

To put this in perspective, the most expensive Presidential election campaign in our history was in 2008, where Barrack Obama spent $1.3 billion. Bloomberg will hit the billion dollar mark by Super Tuesday and could easily spend double the record just in the primaries alone.

And if he makes it to the general election, who knows how thigh that number could get. $4 billion? $5 billion? Even if he hit those numbers, because of his ongoing income he'd still be as rich as when he started.

"I'll take an election to go, hold the Sanders." ;)

Yawn!

Democrats voting for Bloomberg, yeah right!

SJG

The democrats have a choice between a little kid who takes flirty selfies at Auschwitz; a fake Native American; a Communist who is an independent; a republican and lmao you assholes would finda way to fuck up a free lunch...

^^^^^^ And you guys thought that heads mounted on pikes did not talk. Surprise surprise.

SJG

You can just smell the fear rolling of the party elite:

yahoo.com

This is just one of countless hit jobs being published against Bernie.

I think that this is a time of crisis, and that Americans are ready for Social Democracy.

4% of all people in the work force are earning a median salary of $18k per year, from Brooking Institute.

Are Americans Ready To Embrace Socialism? (w/ Richard Wolff ) youtube.com

amazon.com

SJG

theadultblog.com

TJ Street tuscl.net

Steve Winwood and Eric Clapton - Dear Mr. Fantasy (HQ)(Crossroads Guitar Festival 2010) youtube.com

Little Wing youtube.com

Blues in 'A' youtube.com

There's a long way to go and it's a very fluid situation that can and does change daily and I'm honestly not following any of this closely so I have no idea how accurate this poll is but I just ran in to this and figured some of you would find it interesting...

msn.com

No one is going to steal any nomination from anyone.

But it is possible that Dem Primary Votes could start going another direction.

Have to wait and see.

SJG

===> "No one is going to steal any nomination from anyone."

That's a very optimistic opinion. You should be as worried as anyone SJG. Last I checked, Bernie was leading in CA. Imagine how the electrified youth of that leftward lurching state will feel if 4+ candidates ride this out all the way to the convention without anyone gaining a clear majority.

Used to be the CA vote was too late. Now, CA's primary has been moved up, to Super Tuesday March 3rd.

I don't know how people are going to vote, but who would try to "steal"?

Joe Biden is likely history, and that is just fine with me.

PBS Newshour 2/13/2020, Starts with William Barr and other Trump idiocy matters. Also most interesting interview with Bernie Sanders. He wants Universal Programs, like Social Security. Not needs tested. Universal benefits, means tested taxation. Awesome! youtube.com

SJG

Has Reaganomics Turned America Into a "Sh*thole" Country? youtube.com

Poverty Keeps Millenials From Middle Class (US has 40% Poverty Rate and an Unprecedented Level of Homelessness) youtube.com

44% of all people in the work force are earning a median salary of $18k per year, from Brooking Institute!

Are Americans Ready To Embrace Socialism? (w/ Richard Wolff ) youtube.com

amazon.com

A Broken System Acquitted Donald Trump (w/ Paul Blumenthal) REAL GOOD! youtube.com

Has America Always Been Tyrannical? youtube.com

Think of the muscle control they must have to make this work hands off: theadultblog.com

TJ Street tuscl.net

Steve Winwood and Eric Clapton - Dear Mr. Fantasy (HQ)(Crossroads Guitar Festival 2010) youtube.com

Little Wing youtube.com

Blues in 'A' youtube.com

^^^ 6 hours of you posting stupid crap like this manifesto and you claim to. Spend your time engaged in politics 24/7 while building a so called organization. Your Organization and political affiliation must center around honing your shy spreading abilities!

NO

"Imagine how the electrified youth of that leftward lurching state will feel if 4+ candidates ride this out all the way to the convention without anyone gaining a clear majority."

Rules have changed since 2016, super-delegates can't vote on the first round anymore, and it's not clear whether anyone will feel "cheated." As I write this, the 538 simulation has a brokered convention as the most likely result and slightly more likely than Sanders taking a majority:

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

Imagine how the "leftward lurching state" will feel if we re-elect a mental-ill, incompetent, autocrat-wanna-be.

===> "Rules have changed since 2016, super-delegates can't vote on the first round anymore, and it's not clear whether anyone will feel "cheated.""

Then you haven't been paying attention Randumb. Since you can't even understand your own party's rules, I suppose I will need to continue and spell out for you what happens if there is no majority going into the convention...

All the regular delegates are bound on the first vote, so if nobody has a majority going in then nobody wins the first vote. After that, the regular delegates become unbound and the Super-delegates come into play in a convention free-for-all.

The only potential way to avoid this is if a candidate releases his/her delegates before the first vote and endorses another candidate. But if Bernie goes into the convention in the lead and then loses on the first vote because of back room horse trading, do you really think voters will be any less pissed than if the super-delegates did it?

It's stunning to me how few of you leftists on this board even bother to understand how your voting process works. They did not really give voters any more control, but rather just shifted the smoke and mirrors a bit to give you the appearance of more control. This is because, as well all know, Dems don't really trust the judgment of their voters, which is why they always have to lie on the campaign trail and when they are trying to get major policies passed.

Rules were changed due to the perceived unfairness of the 2008 and 2016 elections. In any case, this is no ordinary election and I'm hoping Sanders doesn't get the nod.

===> "Rules were changed due to the perceived unfairness of the 2008 and 2016 elections. In any case, this is no ordinary election and I'm hoping Sanders doesn't get the nod."

Yes wunderkind, they were just spelled out above, along with why they are still unfair. Because each state's delegates are awarded proportionally, the new rules strongly encourage candidates to stay in the race longer in order to prevent a majority and make the convention a free-for-all.

During the 2016 election, Cruz and Kasich considered teaming up to do the same thing to Trump. The reason their plan was almost DOA when it was hatched is because of the winner take all system used for each state. Once it was clear that Trump's lead was going to be insurmountable, Trump glided into the convention. Say what you will about him, but at least he was chosen fairly during the primary.

Yes, in your paranoid world, it's theoretically possible for multiple candidates to stay in the race to force a second round. That didn't seem to stop the two-dozen or so candidates that have dropped out so far.

But you started a thread and failed to mention the single biggest change since 2016: Under the old rules, candidates were forced to woo both ordinary voters and super-delegates because super-delegates could vote in the first round. As things stand, if a candidate like Sanders gets 51% of the delegates, then it's all over and super-delegates don't get to vote at all. It's an important change to make the process (more?) fair and super-delegates play a smaller role.

^ Actually it was mentioned several times. But that is a cosmetic change at best when you make it so easy to force a vote to the second round. If the Dems were sincere about letting their people decide, they would have gone to a winner-take-all system like the one used by the Republicans AND done away with super-delegates altogether.

I’m still waiting to see what RickiBoi’s argument against Bloomberg v Sanders actually is you can’t be making an argument promoting ideological purity while supporting a demagogue like Donald Trump My personal belief is this is just a Red Herring floated by Trump supporters.

^ I'm making an argument about election purity. Like him or not, Trump won the Republican primaries fair and square. Republican Party poobahs, for all of their vitriol against him at the time, resisted the urge to interfere with a free and open nomination process.

I see a lot of parallels between Trump and Sanders, except that, unlike the Republicans, the Democrats have built themselves several mechanisms by which to thwart a delegate frontrunner. If they opt to use them against Sanders, all Hell will break loose and it should.

Ah gotcha Rick Electoral purity like the electoral college thwarting the will of the electorate, try again that argument holds no water.

Actually 25, with the electoral college we're still talking about the will of voters. It's simply a mechanism that helps ensure that voters in less populace states have a sufficient say. In its absence we'd look like the Huger Games scenario, with a handful of capital cities and various districts serving them.

But with the Dem primaries, you could be talking about the will of a handful of Party insiders completely overriding the will of voters, or at least all but a small minority of voters. Not good.

My answer is short. YES.

In 2016 they were saying that Hillary Clinton and the Democratic bosses stole the nomination from Bernie Sanders. But this time, the party bosses seem not to be a factor, as Biden has gone down, and as I can see that everyone is smarter now.

Votes could start to go a different direction, but that is not stealing.

2 former Justice Department officials on Trump, Barr and the rule of law youtube.com

How the Republican Party went from Lincoln to Trump youtube.com

Has Trump Taken Down Our Democratic Republic? youtube.com

Trump and his party and his backers like Stephan Bannon use conservative cultural shibboleths to promote an economic system which completely devalues real work and is completely exploitative and unworkable. It is nothing more than a spoils system, a way of pocketing money.

Bernie Sanders, why Socialism is better than Capitalism youtube.com

Actually even with Medicare for All, Free College, and The Green New Deal, and with UBI which Sanders is not even talking about, you still do not have Socialism.

For that you would have to also get to public ownership of all large and strategic industries.

And Sanders is only talking about Democratic Socialism.

So workers actually deliver the goods and services which are needed, not just run on a treadmill to the benefit of the financializers, while being mocked and called "losers".

SJG

Squatting in high heels i.pinimg.com

Peter Frampton Do You Feel Like We Do (2019, quite interesting) youtube.com

Creedence Clearwater Revival - I Heard It Through The Grapevine youtube.com

Amy Winehouse/Paul Weller - I heard it through the grapevine.Hootynanny 2006. youtube.com

youtube.com

Chicago - Old Days youtube.com

Ah the will of the voters, interesting argument , your trying to make, well let’s see, when the electoral college was formed, we were an agrarian nation living out in the rural areas but now the the population actually lives in closer quarters no longer spread out over farmlands, ranches, and hunting grounds, the net effect of the electoral college in our modern America is that 7 folks in Wyoming, and 14 in Montana end up with more clout than 40 million taxpayers in California 20 million in NY and Florida and 20 or so million in Texas, that’s your version of democracy and it’s ridiculous you know it and so does everyone else, the real reason y’all like this system is because it allows for a tyrannical minority that’s afraid of progress, to dictate policy to a a large majority. That’s the truth.

The reason for the Electoral College was that the founders did not want a popular vote for POTUS or US Senators. Electors were selected by state legislatures.

Today, the Electoral College is just the legacy of 3/5ths and slavery.

Democracy is not a land voting system, it is a one person one vote system, as the 14th and 15th Amendment make clear.

Electoral College is just a nasty legacy we will have.

SJG

What's happening to U.S. asylum seekers forced to wait in Mexico ( unsafe, crowed, threatening, dangerous ) youtube.com

No Parallel to this Anywhere in the World!

2 former Justice Department officials on Trump, Barr and the rule of law youtube.com

How the Republican Party went from Lincoln to Trump youtube.com

Has Trump Taken Down Our Democratic Republic? youtube.com

Trump and his party and his backers like Stephan Bannon use conservative cultural shibboleths to promote an economic system which completely devalues real work and is completely exploitative and unworkable. It is nothing more than a spoils system, a way of pocketing money.

Bernie Sanders, why Socialism is better than Capitalism youtube.com

Actually even with Medicare for All, Free College, and The Green New Deal, and with UBI which Sanders is not even talking about, you still do not have Socialism.

For that you would have to also get to public ownership of all large and strategic industries.

And Sanders is only talking about Democratic Socialism.

So workers actually deliver the goods and services which are needed, not just run on a treadmill to the benefit of the financializers, while being mocked and called "losers".

SJG

Squatting in high heels i.pinimg.com

Peter Frampton Do You Feel Like We Do (2019, quite interesting) youtube.com

Creedence Clearwater Revival - I Heard It Through The Grapevine youtube.com

Amy Winehouse/Paul Weller - I heard it through the grapevine.Hootynanny 2006. youtube.com

youtube.com

Chicago - Old Days youtube.com

@SJG actually the electoral college system was a mechanism that made it possible to have an election in a reasonable amount of time back when we were an isolated agrarian society, but times have changed we are no longer isolated, and even though there is a racial component to much of the Political systems, it isn’t the only consideration and let’s not try to judge the past by today’s standards, that how you end up with a demagogue like Trump.

It is also because the founders did not really trust the populace. And then 3/5ths was a compromise with Southerners. It it were 0, then they would get less US House and EV Reps. And if it were 1, then it would make it look like slaves were full people.

States also had very restrictive voter eligibility rules too. And then women could not vote.

There was even a rebellion against the state gov. over these matters in Rhode Island in the 1840's. We have come a long way. But that Electoral College is still retrograde.

Former DOJ Insider Blasts Bill Barr: He's 'Weaponizing' Justice Dept. To Shield Trump | MSNBC youtube.com

SJG

Today 2/15 Ukrainian President Zelensky rejects Trump's claim in CNN interview youtube.com

Judge slams Trump's remarks: Banana republic youtube.com

What's happening to U.S. asylum seekers forced to wait in Mexico ( unsafe, crowed, threatening, dangerous ) youtube.com

No Parallel to this Anywhere in the World!

2 former Justice Department officials on Trump, Barr and the rule of law youtube.com

How the Republican Party went from Lincoln to Trump youtube.com

Has Trump Taken Down Our Democratic Republic? youtube.com

Trump and his party and his backers like Stephan Bannon use conservative cultural shibboleths to promote an economic system which completely devalues real work and is completely exploitative and unworkable. It is nothing more than a spoils system, a way of pocketing money.

Bernie Sanders, why Socialism is better than Capitalism youtube.com

Actually even with Medicare for All, Free College, and The Green New Deal, and with UBI which Sanders is not even talking about, you still do not have Socialism.

For that you would have to also get to public ownership of all large and strategic industries.

And Sanders is only talking about Democratic Socialism.

So workers actually deliver the goods and services which are needed, not just run on a treadmill to the benefit of the financializers, while being mocked and called "losers".

Squatting in high heels i.pinimg.com

Peter Frampton Do You Feel Like We Do (2019, quite interesting) youtube.com

Creedence Clearwater Revival - I Heard It Through The Grapevine youtube.com

Amy Winehouse/Paul Weller - I heard it through the grapevine.Hootynanny 2006. youtube.com

youtube.com

Chicago - Old Days youtube.com

i dont think the elite's in the demo party can stop bernie, like they did in 2016.............in fact the elite"s in the GOP could not stop Trump in 2016.................i feel bernie would have beat trump in 2016,,,,,,,,,but not in 2020

===> "i dont think the elite's in the demo party can stop bernie, like they did in 2016.............in fact the elite"s in the GOP could not stop Trump in 2016........"

But the GOP didn't have the tools at their disposal that the Dems have, as we outlined above. Also Trump, for all his noise, was promoting a mostly classic Republican agenda that the party poobahs and core voters could ultimately get behind, whereas Bernie's policy views scare a lot of people, including a lot of Dems. So for those reasons, it is not an apples to apples comparison.

@25: I'm sure that the whole agrarian vs. urban distinction all sounded good in your head, but clearly you haven't studied your Constitutional history. If you had, you'd know that the electoral college system (along with the composition of the Senate) came about PRECISELY because of population differences between states with urban centers and those without. Less populated Southern states were concerned about becoming little more than vassals to more heavily populated Northern states. The electoral college was a compromise that still factored in population in determining delegates, but gave even the smallest states at least a little say in the process.

State rights still matter. We are not a homogeneous country, but one with a vastly diverse collection of cultural and philosophical influences. Hillary only won 20 of the 50 states and, scarier still, only 487 of 3,113 counties nationwide. A situation like this was EXACTLY what the electoral college was there to address and it functioned exactly as intended.

^ I'm sure that you aren't a constitutional scholar, but consider this how many times has there been a president that won election without winning the popular vote, that answer alone will make your snarky reply to me inconsistent, with your argument, that Sanders deserves the nomination, and the poo-bahs (your words) are conspiring to steal the nomination from him. That was my point thank you, for so eloquently making it for me.

Yes 25, the popular vote is not enough by itself in the absence of sufficient geographic diversity. It is a balancing of interests between the popular vote and individual states' rights. But at the end of the day, it is still determined based upon the votes in each state and is an open and transparent process that has endured for hundreds of years.

Comparing this to backroom deals meant to take a nomination from the legitimate frontrunner is ludicrous. If Bernie is the front-runner come convention time and they screw him with deals done in the shadows and behind closed doors, you better believe that there will be He'll to pay.

There you go again with your demonstrations of phony even handedness, question is who is the governing body tha determines

the absence of sufficient geographic diversity. It is a balancing of interests between the popular vote and individual states' rights.<

You seem to be implying that you should be considered that ultimate authority, I’m disagreeing along with others who feel that a Trumpublican worried about Bernie getting screwed “how special. ”

25, the "authority" is the Founding Fathers. Their rationale for setting things up this way is well documented and is as applicable today as it ever was. Too bad you can't warp back in time and worm your way into the NY Delegation at the Constitutional Convention. Maybe you could have negotiated a much better deal for the much more populous NY. ;)

^ This is getting silly, my whole point is very simple, you just like to argue, why does a guy who has no intention of voting for Bernie Sanders care one way or the other, you just made this a huuuge deal, we know you will vote for Trump, and we don't care, simple point is, the nomination isn't getting stolen at all, the way our politics are set up, there are bright lines every place, don't for one second think, that anyone, that matters, will care if Sanders loses, especially if the powers that be decide that Bloomberg is a better pick, this is not my opinion, it;s just a statement of what I see.

You're the one who made that comparison to the electoral college, not me. I simply disagreed.

I think we will need to agree to disagree on the relative impact of Bernie getting screwed at the convention. There is a deep schism forming in the Democratic Party and I believe that some of his followers will stay home in disgust if that happens.

If they really want to stop Bernie, they had better find a way to do it straight up before this gets to convention, which means that a lot of moderates need to drop out fast. But I won't hold my breath with this self-absorbed bunch.

Oh, as to why I care? Because if Bernie can get fucked out of the nomination, then so to could a Republican outsider in the future. The fact that the Dem Party has left themselves with so many ways to do it is disturbing and I never want the GOP to start pondering the merits of that crap.

I think the new super-delegate rules strike a good balance.

If super-delegates are abolished completely, a candidate like Sanders will take the majority of delegates based on his popularity in urban, coastal, areas. Then, in the general election, he's more likely to lose in battleground states in the midwest that has more weight due to quirks in the electoral college.

Also, it's not like Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh can become Democratic super-delegates. Super-delegates are Democratic governors, members of Congress, or insiders who care about party goals and winning the general election. So most super-delegates are elected officials who represent Democratic voters indirectly.

The GOP is becoming one monolithic block of voters who represent white, aging, Christian, men. As a group, they're less likely to fracture into competing groups and therefore have less need for super-delegates.

@Random, Rick isn't really worried about Bernie getting cheated he just wants to espouse his view of politics, and as such is setting up a straw man to argue this could happen anyplace, it really can't, but this is the general deep state conspiracy theory stuff, that the Trumpublicans are complaining is happening every place, the supermarket prices are rigged, the elections are rigged, the football game is rigged, with all of the rigging going on all over the place and our common knowledge that secrets are kept only by the dead, don't you find it a bit disingenuous.

I agree with you, @25, and the thread is odd.

We just had POTUS use taxpayer money to coerce a foreign government into cheating in the next election. He was acquitted, supporting evidence was not allowed to be introduced, and the justice dept is now being used to punish his enemies and to keep his cronies out of jail. Welcome to our banana republic.

...but @Dugan is very concerned about the undemocratic features of super-delegates despite the recent rule changes.

===> "...but @Dugan is very concerned about the undemocratic features of super-delegates despite the recent rule changes."

Yup and I think the issues are fairly obvious to those that actually understand the ins and outs of your party's current process. But because we all know you don't read very well Randumb, next time I'll try to include visual aids with any technical discussion. ;)

===> " We just had POTUS use taxpayer money to coerce a foreign government into cheating in the next election. "

So in other words, you're contending that a current POTUS tried to withhold taxpayer dollars to determine whether the last Vice POTUS used the same taxpayer dollars to pad his son's personal next? Hmmm... ;)

that should have been "personal nest."

#StolenNomination #CorruptParty

@RD here’s some real questions for you to be sincerely concerned with, how much money is Ivanka and Don Jr. receiving from China and Russia, how much is Giuliani getting paid for his Ukrainian adventure and who’s pay him, with an emphasis on are taxpayers monies involved #weirdconspiracytheories

Bernie is not a member of the Democrat Party: If you look despite him 'caucusing' in congress with the dems he is a registered "Independent" as is Bloomberg, who was 'Republican' but was elected as mayor of NYC as an 'Independent' and now is a 'Democrat'.

I'm sorry 25, but has someone produced evidence that these people are being paid by foreign governments for influence? If not, then that comparison is nothing but silly noise, because what happened with Hunter Biden is amply well documented.

Biden's dipshit of a son, who failed at every business venture he tried and couldn't even keep his Navy Reserves posting because of a cocaine habit, was suddenly receiving gobs of money from a Ukrainian company at the exact same moment that his Daddy was putting the screws to a prosecutor pursuing that company. Even the Dem voters know that this stinks, which is why Biden is pretty much done now.

Brazenly corrupt people like Biden and Clinton, whose Foundation accepted tons of money from various foreign governments while she was Sec. of State (also well documented), are who Bernie is squaring up against. After seeing who the Dem Party prefers as its Presidential candidates, I wouldn't put anything past them.

#StolenNomination #CorruptParty

it’s goofy to talk about corruption without including Trump himself, #weirdconspiracytheories

^ Good try deflecting 25, but it's not going to work. Bernie is fighting against a party apparatus that is rotten to the core at the highest levels. On the surface, they claim it's because he's not electable, but in truth they're more likely scared that the gravy train will stop running.

^ Please I’m not deflecting you just aren’t paying attention your boy is hardly even interested in Biden these days, he’s got his hands full with a genuine billionaire spending real money which he doesn’t have, to take him down. #weirdconspiracytheories #goofjustgoofy

Since this is your thread RickiBoi I’ll let you have the last word I’m done debating the merits with a goofy guy that can’t even stay on topic Real question is what do you care about someone stealing the nomination from Bernie. #goofyconspiracytheories

haveaniceday

Indeed 25, Wall Street Mike may well have enough money to buy the rug right out from under Bernie and then go on to challenge Trump. Wall Street Mike has already horded advertising time in every market and is promising lucrative PAC payments to influential state politicos as we speak. He has also contributed so much money to the usual noisy left wing think tanks that they are afraid to criticize him. So I must agree that Wall Street Mike has really purchased all the bases.

But if Wall Street Mike buys the nomination at the convention, it is the Bernie supporters who will feel the sting.

25, why I care has been asked and answered, but I will re-summarize: (1) because a corrupt Dem nomination process weeds out Independents that I might like to see as a viable second choice; and (2) because if people just accept a model that allows party leaders to take the decision out of voters' hands, some day the Republican Party might be tempted to do the same thing.

My concerns are genuine.

^ Sorry for chiming back after I said I was done, but why do you think the Democrats or the Republicans for that matter owe anyone who is not a party member anything at all, actually they are being quite generous by allowing him to compete in their process even though he is an independent, and has always been, let him make his own case to the voters without the benefit of a party apparatus that he has seen fit to ignore except for when it suits his purposes.

1. It does not make them corrupt, to preference dues paying party members
2. Republicans did the same thing with Trump in 2016 he was always Identified as a Democrat last word is yours as long as you stick to facts.

===> "but why do you think the Democrats or the Republicans for that matter owe anyone who is not a party member anything at all..."

They don't owe anything to any candidate. Their obligation is to their primary voters. The fact that this doesn't even occur to you is symptomatic of the broader arrogance of Democratic Party leaders, who routinely assume that they know better than their voters what is good for everyone.

I think Biden is history

Bernie Sanders Explains Why Low Unemployment Doesn't Mean Americans Are Better Off - Breaking News youtube.com

Black Panthers: Portraits From An Unfinished Revolution youtube.com

Has Trump Taken Down Our Democratic Republic? youtube.com

Trump Goes After Mayor Pete For Kissing Husband youtube.com

Does Increasing The Minimum Wage Increase youtube.com

Have Billionaires Bought Our Democracy? A very good account of our economic situation and trajectory! youtube.com

Bolton Speaks Out And Calls Grow For Trump's AG Barr To Resign youtube.com

The real story of Rudy Giuliani’s mission for Trump in Ukraine youtube.com

PBS News Hour 2/18/2020 youtube.com

Feds Intensify Giuliani Probe As Barr’s DOJ Accepts Ukraine Dirt From Giuliani | MSNBC youtube.com

SJG

ELP 1997 youtube.com

TJ Street tuscl.net tuscl.net tuscl.net

New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez joined "The View" on Wednesday, promoting Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders as a fighter for the working class, for "people like us." msn.com

SJG

Michael Bloomberg was a shitty NYC governor. Now, he will be stealing votes from Trump, dividing the Republican Party.

‘The Law Is Going To Come After Him’: Obama Lawyer Warns ‘Lawless’ Trump After Pardons youtube.com

Seems like the one most hurt in the Impeachment, has been Joe Biden. Fine with me!

Younger voters seem to want Sanders and "Democratic Socialism".

Bernie Sanders Opens Double-Digit National Lead: Poll youtube.com

Why Bernie Sanders And His Message Resonates With Younger Voters, book about millennials youtube.com

Rep. Maxine Waters On What Democrats Can Do About An ‘Out Of Control’ President (yesterday) youtube.com

Judge Decides Not To Delay Roger Stone's Sentencing youtube.com

Every Trump Financial Thread Pulled Results In Scandal youtube.com

Trump Weaponizing DOJ Is Worst Case Scenario Envisioned By Obama Officials youtube.com

Why Bloomberg's Debate Will Be A DISASTER youtube.com

Top Pentagon policy official resigns at Trump's request (today) youtube.com

DOJ Memo Shows Barr's Lid On Reported Giuliani Investigation youtube.com

Steve Rattner: Less Job Creation Under Trump Than Obama youtube.com

He's known Bill Barr for 40 years. Now, he's calling for his resignation youtube.com

Trump says Obama left him an economic mess. Here are the facts youtube.com

Mark Sanford Says GOP Letting Trump Drive U.S. To Financial Ruin youtube.com

Trump Hush Money Case Seen In New Light After New Reports On Barr youtube.com

Media Won't Use This Word To Describe Trump.... Why? youtube.com

Dems Battle To Retake Control Of The Senate In 2020 youtube.com

TJ Street tuscl.net

5 colors, won't be falling off, make Vitamin V unnecessary pleasershoes.com

10" heel boots pleasershoes.com

Is that the same AOC who chased off Amazon and with it thousands of lucrative job for NYC residents? If I'm not mistaken, she's facing a primary challenger this year and could very well lose her seat, which is fine given how little productive activity it has seen.

She decided, and I agree, the government should not be in the role of trying to promote business. It serves a public good, and that tax money break which amazon was going to get can be used to build schools and libraries.

The primary view of Neo-Liberals is that gov't should promote business, and that business depends upon getting breaks from the gov't. I say that this is wrong!

SJG

Sounds like in South Carolina tonight the other 6 Democrats are really going to be targeting Bernie Sanders.

And Joe Biden is often a piece of shit, in this election and others.

Look here for the NoCar Debate segment which will go up soon. youtube.com

SJG

Tuesday, February 25

8-10 PM ET on CBS

South Carolina Debate Schedule. This sounds like it will be a war!

The Sanders versus Biden contest should be resolves.

Joe Biden is often a shit.

SJG

Here, segment about Biden and South Carolina: youtube.com

SJG

35 min until the debate starts!

SJG

It's in Charleston, looks like an opera house.

If that is a playhouse, not a good design. If it is a concert hall, not a good design either.

SJG

It’s not just Bernie with crazy ideas. From Don Surber:

Democrats are united as never before. The debates and the recent assemblages of legislatures in New York state and Virginia have made that clear.

They stand for: Open borders Gun confiscation Infanticide Reparations Welshing on student loans Wealth confiscation Ending bail Pooping in the streets Banning automobiles Banning plastic

None of those things appeals to most Americans. Combined they are a disaster for the party.

Our forefathers were quite insightful and as a result we have the Second Amendment. Despite the idiotic pronouncements from the left about hunting, the Amendment was designed to allow the citizenry to have the means to defend themselves against Government.

We live in a very different world than we did when the Constitution was drafted. A well regulated militia is not what we now have.

The Democratic Party is very practical. Its the Republican that tries to rule with ideology, because their actual intent is to make a Two Tier Society.

“The Billionaire Election”: Anand Giridharadas on How 2020 Is a Referendum on Wealth Inequality democracynow.org

SJG

Satellite Image Reveals Ancient Lake in the Sahara weather.com

If only it could stay down: finance.yahoo.com

Daylight Saving Time 2020: When To Spring Forward Daylight saving time, often incorrectly called daylight savings time, is about to begin in U.S. states, except for Arizona and Hawaii.

Daylight saving time begins Sunday, March 8, when most Americans will set their clocks ahead one hour. End of daylight saving time is Nov. 1 this year patch.com

Democrats support making out world livable, for everyone, rather than letting the rich take advantage of the poor and justify it.

Things are going to change at the ballot box, or it will have to be by the gun barrel.

Possibly there is going to be some structural unfairness towards Bernie:

Democratic Superdelegates Overwhelmingly Oppose Bernie Sanders Campaign democracynow.org

SJG

wandi.fun

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Graham Bond ✪ Holy Magick [full album] youtube.com

Grahame Bond - Love Is the Law [full album / bonus tracks] youtube.com

M Davis Bitches Brew 1970 Full Album youtube.com

I hate to say this but if Bernie can win the nomination he can win the election that will be just as problematic as the president we now have.

This change has been building for decades.

Bernie Sanders is further to the left than either Adlai Stevenson or George McGovern.

During the last year of his life MLK proclaimed a poor people's campaign.

Robert Kennedy announced his death, then he largely assumed King's mantle and talked in the style of King for the rest of his campaign.

youtube.com

SJG

And now that South Carolina demonstrates that Bernie cannot turn out African-American voters (an essential constituency for Dems in the general election), the establishment panic level will go to 11.

===> "I hate to say this but if Bernie can win the nomination he can win the election"

Not impossible, but IMHO improbable. Say what you will about Trump, but his agenda was ultimately quite traditional in most respects. I'm not sure that the country is ready to try Bernie's brand of socialism.

Trump’s reaching out to Black voters is already driving the elite nuts. Democrats cannot win a national election without 90%+ of the AA vote. Polls show Trump’s support among AA around 20%. It might be as high as 40% in some key manufacturing states like Michigan and Ohio. Bernie is a poor choice to counteract this.

Sanders is an awful candidate. He has a dreamlike quality and he can't tell you where the money will come from to support free healthcare, free college...you name it.

At best Sanders gets elected and Congress ignores his nutty ideas. He doesn't get to craft legislation and he's there at the end of the line to approve whatever congress comes up with.

But at worst he loses badly to Trump and helps bring down the Senate and House races for Democrats. It's hard to go by the polls; Sanders polls well with young people, but young people are notorious for not voting.

The 538 simulations show that a contested convention is much more likely now with a probability near 60%. Hopefully, Sanders will lose whether he gets a plurality of initial delegates or not.

In a contested convention where Sanders has a plurality but not majority of delegates, if he ends up not being the nominee due to the machinations of superdelegates, many of his most fervent supporters will be justifiably outraged and will not repeat not fall in line behind the other candidate, thus guaranteeing a democratic defeat. However, it might end up with the Dems not taking a shellacking in the house and senate

The July convention is in Milwaukee, a short drive from Madison, which is populated with rampant Bernie Bros. If they screw Bernie at the convention, Milwaukee will burn.

Funny that most of the folks concerned about this are Trump supporters, hey guys get a life, worry about your own candidate let the Bernie supporters worry about Bernie.

@rick: "because if people just accept a model that allows party leaders to take the decision out of voters' hands, some day the Republican Party might be tempted to do the same thing."

The DNC has from the first allowed their super-delegates to "vote their conscious", party-speak for "override the will of the voters" when the voters don't elect the "right" candidate. There were at one point about 700 super delegates, about 15% of the total number of delegates and a third of the number required to secure the nomination. A third. That's HUGE.

In contrast, the RNC only has (I think) 150 super-delegates, 3 from each state, and they are required to vote for the candidate who won their state's primary. I don't remember if they're actually required to vote.

After the 2016 election, some anti-Trump Republicans (read: rational human beings) called for allowing the GOP super-delegates the same freedom as their Democratic counterparts. I haven't looked at the numbers to see if that would have make a difference or not, but the smaller number overall would have less of an effect on the outcome than the Democrat's quite literal ability to hand the nomination to one candidate.

“Funny that most of the folks concerned about this are Trump supporters,”

I’m not concerned. I’m excited. Chicago 1968 !

I think the establishment panic level is already at 11. And its not because Bernie is failing to draw voters in some states, it is because the establishment is terrified that he can draw enough voters. They are terrified because he is likely going to win. They are terrified of his message.

They are terrified of him as they were of RFK and the later MLK.

SJG

Democratic leaders have circled the wagons against Bernie. But that does not mean they are stealing anything from him. We will see what happens.

Who is the Most Electable Democratic Candidate youtube.com

SJG

Are Americans Ready To Embrace Socialism? (w/ Richard Wolff ) youtube.com

Will Sanders Be Cheated Out of 553,000 Votes? (w/ Greg Palast) youtube.com

Competing Populist Movements washingtonpost.com

Bernie and the New Populism newyorker.com

Super Tuesday Kicks Off as Moderate Dems Coalesce in Support of Joe Biden democracynow.org

‘The Nation’ Endorses Bernie Sanders and His Movement We are proud to endorse Sanders, a democratic socialist with a program both realistic and radical enough to meet the challenges of our time. thenation.com

crosby stills nash young almost cut my hair CSNY 1974 youtube.com

Will Super Tuesday provide clarity? Did Early voting mean that tens of thousands of votes were “wasted” on Pete and Amy? Did Klobachar And Buttigieg dropping out get Biden enough votes to keep Bernie down? Did Bloomberg completely waste upwards of $500,000,000?

All this is to be seen.......

Thoughts?

Did Bloomberg completely waste upwards of $500,000,000?

YES!

SJG

chime, warren staying cost bernie!

"Did Bloomberg completely waste upwards of $500,000,000?"

No, not a complete waste since he did win American Samoa.

If Bloomberg wants to improve the chance of beating Trump, he will drop out tomorrow and turn his substantial campaign infrastructure over to Biden. If, instead, his campaign was simply about his ego, he won’t. Either way, the consultants who talked him into running ( and got rich in the process ) are scum.

Hey Mark this is a democracy. By the end of the night Bloomberg could have a respectable number of delegates in his own right, especially since he is beating Biden in CA. Bloomberg is also polling well in places like NY, which itself is a big haul. Also, there is no guarantee that Bloomberg voters will all flock to Biden.

If there is someone who should pull out right away it is Warren. She's having a miserable night and couldn't even do better than 3rd in her own state.

When we wake up in the morning, Sanders is likely going to be the delegate leader once CA shakes out. I'm not sure what it says about Biden that he couldn't do better than 3rd place in 3 of the states that Sanders won, especially CA. Can Biden win convincingly anywhere outside of the south?

@RamdomMember: "Did Bloomberg completely waste upwards of $500,000,000?"

Can you imagine the amount of pussy he could have gotten with that amount of jack?

Big Ole Joe winning Big Tonight,

Bernie Sanders might need to retire to a Nursing home after this strings of Losses tonight.

Major Upsets:

Biden wins Oklahoma

Biden wins Massachusetts

Biden wins Texas &

Biden is on course to win Maine.

Bloomberg spent $500M to win only American Samoa,

He should have used that money to better other people lives.

I

Stupid Joe Biden the plagarizer wins lol.

Quote of the night:

“Democrats have a choice between Socialism and senility."

No-one's stealing the nomination from Bernie, he's losing it on his own. I'm undecided about who I think would be best -- both Biden and Bernie are too old in my opinion, but I think the voters will choose the most viable candidate.

Actually loper, right now Bernie is still winning. Once the California delegates are all awarded, Bernie is going to have a solid lead in the delegate count.

I don’t think the delegate count will hold once some of the other states like N.Y. and Fl seems to me out of over 11 million votes cast yesterday nationally Biden has over a million votes more than Bernie that isn’t stealing the nomination that is Bernie not being able to close the deal.

Stolen, or not, what percent of Bernie Bros will vote for Joe in November ? No, they won’t vote Trump. But, they may stay home.

^Probably more than you think, you Trump supporters are acting just like Hillary's supporters did in 2016, Trump isn't inevitable. That's just hubris on your part and we all know how that ends up,

P.S. I noticed on the crawl just now Bloomberg ended his campaign, and is endorsing Biden. that ain't gonna help your guy Mark

The debates will now take a very different tone. Not sure if Liz or Tulsi will be included but there will be plenty of Bernie/Joe action. I hope that will give Trump plenty of video to use.

"we all know how this will end up" is the epitome of hubris. No one knows how it will turn out.

Time for Warren to drop out.

I think Fauxcahontas is going to hang on for the brokered convention.

If you believe the Dem elites are rigging this against Bernie, then it makes perfect sense that Warren would stay in. She cost Bernie a few states last night.

Liz Warren is useless. If she were a conservative guy she's be making fries.

I don't think anything is rigged. The objective is 1. Make sure Republicans cannot win. 2. Make sure Republicans cannot use people like Bloomberg to undermine the Democratic Party.

CA Results, next results at 5pm mercurynews.com

Sanders 32% Biden 20% Bloomberg 18%

Not winner take all, but 15% min required to get delegates. Some of the other candidates got votes, but they could have been mailed in or dropped off quite a while back.

SJG

OZZY OSBOURNE - "Mr. Crowley" 1981 (Live Video) youtube.com

War Pigs, Live (I think it was Louis Armstrong who started that abstracted singing on just one note) youtube.com

More and more this is going to be the new Republican narrative after all Trump had hoped to run against the democratic socialist, the more Biden wins the louder and shriller the Trumpublicans are gonna get about how they stole the nomination from Bernie. Keep in mind it ain’t true just another diversion to keep from talking about the real issues that matter.

Everything about Trump and his Supply Side Republicans is diversion. It has been like that since Reagan!

Los Angeles Mayor Says Biden A 'Great Guy, Great American' Los Angeles Mayor Says Biden A 'Great Guy, Great American' Los Angeles Mayor Says Biden A 'Great Guy, Great American' youtube.com

America's Favorite Presidents Were Left of Bernie Sanders youtube.com

SJG

The Case Against Joe Biden: Former VP’s Long Career Shows a Recurring Theme of “Appeasing the Right” democracynow.org

After Biden’s Super Tuesday Surge, Sanders Campaign Faces Questions About African-American Support democracynow.org

Trump getting into office is one of the closest brushes our nation has had with disintegration.

Winning the White House and both Houses of Congress is the first priority, while making sure Michael Bloomberg types don't undermine the Democratic Party is the second.

Supply Side Economics is a Complete Fraud!

Then There Were Two: Sanders Wins California with Latinx Support as Biden Sweeps Southern Black Vote democracynow.org

This all looks very promising for a large politically conscious turn out in November.

===> "If you believe the Dem elites are rigging this against Bernie, then it makes perfect sense that Warren would stay in. She cost Bernie a few states last night."

Yup. Moving forward there's just no other logical reason for her to stay in. The only thing that makes sense is that she's been offered sweeteners to stay in and bleeds votes from Bernie.

No Dems have rigged anything. Its just that Biden was tarnished by T-Rump and that Ukrainian stuff, and then he has a history of placating the Right.

He is making a big comeback. But nothing is rigged.

He was the VP, so he spent 8 years heading the National Security Council. He is qualified!

Bernie Sanders Hopes To Focus On 'Issue Oriented Campaign' youtube.com

SJG

Everything about Trump and his Supply Side Republicans is diversion. It has been like that since Reagan!

Los Angeles Mayor Says Biden A 'Great Guy, Great American' Los Angeles Mayor Says Biden A 'Great Guy, Great American' Los Angeles Mayor Says Biden A 'Great Guy, Great American' youtube.com

America's Favorite Presidents Were Left of Bernie Sanders youtube.com

The Case Against Joe Biden: Former VP’s Long Career Shows a Recurring Theme of “Appeasing the Right” democracynow.org

After Biden’s Super Tuesday Surge, Sanders Campaign Faces Questions About African-American Support democracynow.org

Trump getting into office is one of the closest brushes our nation has had with disintegration.

Winning the White House and both Houses of Congress is the first priority, while making sure Michael Bloomberg types don't undermine the Democratic Party is the second.

Supply Side Economics is a Complete Fraud!

Then There Were Two: Sanders Wins California with Latinx Support as Biden Sweeps Southern Black Vote democracynow.org

This all looks very promising for a large politically conscious turn out in November.

Frances Fitzgerald, "The Evangelicals" youtube.com

Ok, so why is Tulsi Gabbard still in? More conspiracy theories?

Some votes were sent in quite a while back.

SJG

@Jimmy that’s the correct answer to that deep state conspiracy theory stuff, you’ll find that aluminum foil is going to be a big seller at Trump rally’s going forward. LOL

There you go, Trump people buying up all the aluminum foil, and wearing their shield hats at the convention.

Biden Reshapes Dem Race With Super Tuesday Wins youtube.com

SJG

Frances Fitzgerald, "The Evangelicals" youtube.com

@25 you pointed out what I was thinking but after I’d gotten bored with the topic - that the repubs seem way more interested in the primary getting “stolen” from Bernie than any dem. While I don’t doubt that the DNC was having a lot of sleepless nights over Bernie, the world will never know now that the voters stole the nomination from him.

Now we have a 200 post thread on a straw man premise so we have to come up with another conspiracy. How about Liz is posed at Bernie? He “called her a liar on national tv.” Or she, like mayor Pete and Klobs, believes that it’s better for the party if Bernie isn’t the nominee. It’s not Team Moderate v. Team Progressive within the party. They just want the White House back and are behaving in the way most likely (but far from certain) to accomplish that shared objective.

Liz is “pissed” at Bernie

So here we have, PBS News Hour, today 3/4, I have always found this to have good predictive power when it comes to politics: youtube.com

SJG

Peter Frampton, While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Festival de Viña 2008 youtube.com

Led Zeppelin – No Quarter [1975/05/24 @ London, England] Earl's Court Extended Version, I could listen to this until the vinyl wears out! youtube.com

^^^^ agreed!

So given how this is unfolding, is Bernie Sanders willing to keep pushing a serious progressive agenda. To listen to him, answer seems to be yes!

CAMPAIGN 2020: Bernie Sanders slams Joe Biden after Super Tuesday results youtube.com

Joe Biden has talked about cutting Medicare, Medicade, Social Security, and Veterans Benefits!

420 Yanis Varoufakis on the Individual in Capitalist Economics (published today) youtube.com

SJG

Led Zeppelin – No Quarter [1975/05/24 @ London, England] Earl's Court Extended Version, I could listen to this until the vinyl wears out! youtube.com

Tulsi is not being included in the next debate. They can’t allow her on that stage, or the stale geezers who remain will look even staler and more geezerish.

Democrats ‘are panicked’ that ‘socialist’ Bernie Sanders could win youtube.com

Here’s why kids these days love socialism youtube.com

Why Democratic Socialism Is Gaining Popularity In The United States youtube.com

Why Finland And Denmark Are Happier Than The U.S. youtube.com

Michael Moore Defends Sanders: ‘If We Vote On Fear, We Will Lose To Donald Trump’ | MSNBC youtube.com

Prof. Wolff on Trump's Economic Shell Game youtube.com

SJG

realclearpolitics.com

How Joe Biden Surprised On Super Tuesday youtube.com

Super Tuesday: What next for Bernie Sanders? FRANCE 24 English youtube.com

New Sanders Ads:

Protect Social Security | Bernie Sanders youtube.com

Decimated | Bernie Sanders youtube.com

Feel The Bern | Bernie Sanders youtube.com

TJ Street tuscl.net

@skibum: "Stupid Joe Biden the plagarizer wins lol."

Spot on, SkiBum!

He'd have been better off dodging the draft, bragging about assaulting women by grabbing their snatches, filing for multiple bankruptcies, cheating on his pregnant wife and paying off porn stars. Biden lacks the morals and scruples to be president.

Just curious @RickDugan, who has the plurality of delegates now, looks to me like it's Joe Biden, so lets be real clear who is stealing the nomination from Bernie ? HMMMMMN

There is an obvious way that Bernie could still win the nomination. He just needs to be willing to go for the jugular. Biden’s gaffes are so frequent, there should be doubts about his mental status. Trump is already going afterJoe on this.

Will Bernie raise this issue ? I doubt it. As a result, Joe will win the nomination, then Trump will expose him on the debate stage.

^ Somehow I disagree with your entire premise, my feeling is different, I just think Trump's been very lucky up til now, let's see if his luck holds, I believe it's going to turn, and you guys are going to be very disappointed when the results come in on Tuesday November 3, 2020.

528 simulation shows the probability of Biden taking a plurality at almost 90%:

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

After all that hand-wringing (1) super-delegates play no role whatsoever and (2) Bloomberg wasted half a billion dollars trying to buy the election.

Biden is a "mainstream" Democrat. It's almost a foregone conclusion.

Skibum's right about Biden being a plagiarizer and many white voters, like myself, don't think he's a great candidate.

But black voters turned this around and created a miracle for Biden. I thought this was a great article about why southern Democrats saved Biden:

nytimes.com

The article has a paywall, but this single sentence summarizes the gist of the article:

"Not long ago, these Americans lived under violent, anti-democratic governments. Now, many there say they see in President Trump and his supporters the same hostility and zeal for authoritarianism that marked life under Jim Crow."

Black voters fear Donald Trump and the reasons are obvious.

===> "Black voters fear Donald Trump and the reasons are obvious."

Right, because he has reduced their unemployment too much and added to the insult by giving them economic opportunity zones. Then the bastard started advocating for school choice so that black kids could escape violent schools. And then he...

Oh, wait a minute...

Rigged ? Rigged ?

The DNC and CNN collaborate to provide Joe Biden with his preferred comfort format for the next debate on March 15th between Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden. The Club knows Biden does best in debate formats when sitting down at a desk; just like the 2012 debate between Biden and Paul Ryan.

CNN is hosting the debate, and CNN is the most friendly control operation for the needs of the Club. So what happens… CNN and The Club agree to a small venue town hall format where Joe Biden will be sitting down at a desk to debate Bernie Sanders.

It is all predictable in the extreme:

Biden will have all of the pre-debate advantages....format, setting, Gabbard being excluded, etc. However, the Biden Gaffe-O-Matic running solo with many many opportunities to display Joe at his zany, forgetful, word challenge worst, could easily tip things back to Bernie if people look st Biden and think.... “Trump will destroy him in a war of words”.

Not sure if Bernie can beat Biden, but I KNOW Biden can beat Biden

New stupid shit- Biden is a gaffe machine yet Trump speaks in crystal clear prose. Yep that’s how stupid this is getting

If the black community has gone nowhere and they always vote Democrat, maybe whom they vote for is the problem.

^^^^ Maybe its because they haven't silenced you skibum! That is where I would start.

Trump has not reduced joblessness significantly. The number remains very high. The official unemployment rate has very little to do with it.

Bernie is a very strong candidate with a very strong message.

We will see Tuesday night how Democrats vote. Want a very large turn out.

SJG

PBS News Hour today Monday March 9th PBS NewsHour full episode, Mar 9, 2020 youtube.com

Polls show Biden ahead. And Michigan is the biggest prize.

But with a very big voter turn out, Sanders could win.

Are Democrats against him because they are bought off by corporate money, or because they just think the voters won't go for the Bernie Platform?

I really like what Bernie is saying.

Why clear, consistent communication is so important during a public health crisis youtube.com

WATCH LIVE: Biden holds rally in Detroit with Sens. Harris and Booker ahead of Tuesday primaries youtube.com

After tomorrow night, things should be clearer.

SJG

Bernie Sanders looks to block Joe Biden's momentum in Michigan youtube.com

SJG

Today Rep. Mark Takano (D-CA) Endorses Bernie for President youtube.com

I was wrong in underestimating how much the conservative Dems would try to stop Bernie Sanders.

The real reason Bernie Sanders gave Joe Biden a pass youtube.com

James Carville REALLY Wants Bernie Sanders Out of the Race youtube.com

Pentagon employees ordered not to travel to prohibited places, orders which could not be imposed on civilians.

Corona infection level probably 10,000 Americans, and it doubles about every 6 days.

Tokyo Summer Olympics Torch Lighting went ahead on schedule.

Bernie Sanders Wins California Primary, NBC News Projects | MSNBC (slow to count the votes!) youtube.com

PBS News, Today March 12th, in Italy death toll tops 1000. youtube.com

WATCH LIVE: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaks to reporters amid coronavirus concerns, 21 minutes, 7 hours ago. youtube.com

WATCH LIVE: Ken Cuccinelli, others to testify before House Homeland Security committee youtube.com

WATCH LIVE: Joe Biden speaks about the coronavirus pandemic youtube.com

Biden is better than Trump, but Sanders was better than both of them.

Today, 2hrs ago, WATCH LIVE: Sanders makes statement about coronavirus and the economy, "scale of a major war", could exceed armed forces casualties from WWII youtube.com

^^^^^ What Bernie is saying makes a great deal of sense!

NBC Nightly News, March 11th, starting with corona youtube.com

Boosting Your Immune System Against Coronavirus | NBC News, for 80% corona is very mild, less than the flu? youtube.com

They say corona came from bats, probably jumping the species barrier when butchering them.

Experts Hope Herd Immunity ‘Flattens’ The Coronavirus Curve | NBC News (makes perfect sense to me!) youtube.com

Dow Drops More Than 2,300 Points Amid Coronavirus Pandemic | NBC News 15 min ago, DOW ~= 21,200. Better if it can go lower. Preposterous idea that lack of consumption has caused this drop. And underlying economy is horrible. youtube.com

Coronavirus: The next three months | THE BIG STORY youtube.com

huffpost.com

John's Hopkins U experts brief Capitol Hill youtube.com

Ontario, baby boy case youtube.com

Coronavirus: Trump suspends travel from Europe to US - BBC News youtube.com

Stocks Plunge Following Trump’s Response To Coronavirus Pandemic | NBC News (stock market deflation is a very positive thing) (getting close to tripping 7% circuit breaker, suspending trading) youtube.com

President Trump Announces Europe Travel Ban in Error-Laden Oval Office Speech democracynow.org

Bernie Sanders: We Are Winning “Ideological” & “Generational” Debate, Now Need to Win “Electability” democracynow.org

Is Over Population A Threat To The Planet? youtube.com

Bill de Blasio, today, getting close to 100 NYC cases, expecting 1000 cases by next week. Conducting "War Gaming", always using a war analogy now! youtube.com

Why Only Rebellion Can Save Mankind From Climate Breakdown (w/ Roger Hallam) youtube.com

Trump Calls COVID-19 “Foreign Virus” as Lack of Universal Healthcare Makes the Pandemic Worse democracynow.org

Lack of Paid Sick Leave Makes It Difficult for Many Workers to Comply with CDC Advice to Stay Home democracynow.org

Coronavirus Poses Higher Risk For Homeless Population youtube.com

One official Corona case in Portland Could COVID-19 Remove Trump From Office? youtube.com

SJG

Devadip Carlos Santana & Turiya Alice Coltrane - Illuminations (1974 - Album) youtube.com

10", strapped on, 5 colors pleasershoes.com

TJ Street tuscl.net tuscl.net tuscl.net tuscl.net tuscl.net tuscl.net

Gerry Mulligan - Night Lights (1963) youtube.com

Next Democratic Primaries, 4 of them, March 17th. nbcnews.com

Should still have debate Sunday

SJG