A female cannot be a stripper and a full practicing feminist at the same time. While I believe an entertainer can have some feminist beliefs, I don't believe an entertainer can be successful while also having and practicing hardcore feminist principles.
Discuss and/or share stories of your encounters with feminist dancers. I need content ideas.
Also, I am out sick with a sinus infection and on some awesome meds that have me in and out of sleep. I hope my first paragraph makes sense.
This might interest you. An interview by Tim Ferris with Alice Little, a sex worker at the Bunny Ranch in Nevada.
Or,
Examples I've seen first hand: a girl let a guy slap her ass cheek as he tipped her. Later in her set, a guy tipped her and slapped her ass. With the second guy, she didn't invite him to slap her ass. she was offended by it and ask the manager for him to be thrown out (they said no).
A girl had her ass grabbed walking down a hallway while a customer was walking behind her. She went to the locker room and cried about feeling physically violated and left early for the night.
Another girl doesn't like to be touched at all by customers and had her ass slapped on a satellite stage. She went to the locker room after her set and balled her eyes out because she had her ass slapped and that customers friends laughed after he did it.
I've seen girls double their couch dance price from the advertised price if customers want to touch them during dances. Otherwise they tell the customers it's an air dance.
I've also seen girls just tell customers they don't do dances unless they pay double whatever the advertised dance price is.
I've listened to girls trash talk customers and talk about how much better they are than customers (of both genders).
The way I see it, it is not a strip club without strippers. But we don't learn anything without customers who are interested in spending money on us. It goes both ways.
I always try to show respect and don’t do anything to upset the dancer.
Hard to respond because "feminist" is somewhat ambiguous and covers a remarkable range of philosophies and values. I've encountered self-proclaimed feminists who believe that women should have the right to control their body, including using their body and talents to make a living in a sex industry, such as strip clubs. This of course presupposes consent on the part of both parties (and some of the examples above violate the consent assumption). This is a variation of the empowerment theme mentioned by Ishmael. For lack of a better word, let's call this "enlightened feminism."
I've also encountered self-proclaimed "feminists" who believe that men in general are the source of all evil and that a woman should never stoop so low as to cater to the sexual interests of men. Let's make up a word for this, how about "Misandric Feminists" (or less kindly "Feminazi's").
There are surely variations of the above two extremes. I could easily see an enlightened feminist working in a strip club---- not so sure about a male-hating misandric feminist.
It’s probably hard to reconcile feminism and strip clubs. But like Electroman said, that probably depends on which feminist concepts one is looking at. Regardless, it shouldn’t be hard to reconcile being a decent person with being in any setting, including strip clubs.
I know a dancer who has feminist attributes and justifies her work as a stripper because she can make a living by working 3 shifts per week. She has a BA degree from a prestigious University. She worked in San Francisco, developed a coke habit, family intervened, got through rehab and started stripping about 15 years ago. She’s now in her early 40’s and is a single mom. AI good 8 or 9 years ago she told me about her Retirement savings, her investments, etc. She swears she’s never met a customer OTC. She has a number of regular customers and she provides no extras in the tuscl vernacular ( she swears that she turned down a $3000 offer for a blow job), but she provides what many ( or most) of her co-workers fail to provide, and that is entertainment. I’ve spent 15 or 20 hours through the years with her in VIP and the time goes so swiftly and leaving happy takes on a new definition and by that I mean pleased that an hour with her was worth it. Yes she has a great body and it is a full nude club where she’s worked well over a decade. She has confided in me and I’m aware of some of her personal “issues” and frankly they’re not that different than the issues which have led other dancers in her club into addiction and prostitution. She, because she has a good self image, personal strength, and a disciplined life has a life she has chosen, has an education, and is considering employment options for after stripping ( last year I know she was taking a welding course with metal sculpturing in mind. She personifies a blend of feminism and wisdom which most lack.
@Waffle let me tell you something that my dad used to say often, he was a business man in the woman’s garment industry and I’m quoting now
as a business person you take shit from the customers shit from the help but we smile all the way to the bank< Don’t worry about being feminist enough you can practice your beliefs when you have a full belly and a roof over head.
Hmm, the obvious example I know of is Jacq the Stripper. But she quit dancing recently after she landed a role consulting for the Hustlers movie. I think in her Beaver Show show book, however, she admitted that a lot of customers got pissed at her. And she has condoned scamming/rip off behavior elsewhere more recently.
I would agree with the above, however, of what “flavor” of feminism one embraces. I’d guess it’s the same thing for Christian dancers too. (Tho they seem few and far between, but maybe I’d be better at spotting them if I wasn’t an atheist)
I'm sure a dancer can have feminist beliefs and still be a successful dancer.
Dancing is another job - that's all. A person can have different beliefs than what is the norm in the industry they work in.
The folks I trust least are the high level execs in the bank. They can spin anything so they feel justified in doing what they want.
In terms of dancers, they are girls with feelings and limits. They shouldn't be treated like property. You should never grab a random unknown woman's ass. Its rude and not appropriate.
Not really sure how to answer this. A job is a job. Remove the emotion and go to work. In the strip club, men are objectifying the strippers as works of naked beauty while the strippers are objectifying the men as a fat ATM machine.
I don't think feminism precludes any line of work that is consensual for all concerned.
If feminism is about women taking control and power then of course they can be dancers. If its the Gloria Allred version of hatred of men, then they can also be dancers.
I feel like a lot of the conflicts mentioned here are more like..... moral, or sexual (as in, sexual harassment), but not so much conflicts of feministic ideals.
IMO there are a lot of personal beliefs that can fuck with you being able to do this job and the quote from 25’s dad is appropriate. If you are not tough enough, you shouldn’t do this job, if you can’t accept the context of the job, you shouldn’t do it, etc.
Does that mean I want every guy to touch and grab and slap my ass all day long at work, or that it’s ok, no—but just consider the context and understand it’s going to happen.
I am a feminist, I’m not extreme but I’m a feminist. If what happens in the strip club, or a law office, or Dairy Quern, or wherever you may work, is a violation of what you consider to to be your feminist beliefs or otherwise, then just don’t work there, it’s not for you and that’s ok.
Bump
I don't grab women I don't know...Dancers I do know and tip well, I've gotten yelled at by bouncers because she's telling me to slap her ass or grab her tits and I comply. There's a a dancer whose been sent home because she kept doing things...for instance doing a hand stand with my face in between her legs which isn't allowed at the place and making full body contact with me....Though I suspect she wanted out of there and knew I would compensate her outside the club...So I try to be very respectful, but with CF's and ATFs its game on for whatever they want... I have also had ATF have a bad day and just want to chill which is fine too...I get more sex and touching than the average guy....I'll sit and buy you drinks and chill too....
I have seen it argued that strip clubs actually put women in the dominant position of power. They make the money. They have control over who their customers are and what they do with them.
I'm not sure how much I believe that. It might be true in some cases. But it's also true that in strip clubs men use money to have power over women, objectify them, and manipulate them. And a lot of guys in clubs essentially think of dancers as disposable humans.
So, I tend to agree. Strip clubs and feminism run counter to each other.