So what do you guys think about this whole police witch hunt going on? I’ve heard some on here allude to it, but this article made me more clear about the details:
Do you guys think this stuff is going to actually going to change the strip club (extras filled) norms over there in the long run? Or that the city isn’t going to do much but enjoy the extra authoritarian power and the vice raids are just an excuse?
I don’t know what to make of it.
Looking forward to see what Jackslash has to say on this.
The latter. RE: authoritarian power.
It's a few months before elections. I would guess it's posturing for the voters. I haven't checked out the local politics but I wonder if someone at city hall is rattling the sabre for make a name of him or herself.
Often traveling dancer is a euphemism for prostitute or criminal in government's mind. The permits or licenses are to discourage traveling dancers, thinking prostitutes or criminals (in their minds) don't want the paper trail, or to be IDed, or don't have the time, or to be humiliated, or just don't want to be the bribe, sorry, I mean license fee.
And by humiliated I mean photographed in both street clothes then again in dancer g-string (totally unnecessary BTW), real name, and stage name, along with police likely standing by and saying all kinds of demeaning statements that cannot be proved. That's even before we realize that vice police or anyone else at city hall, now has all sorts of incriminating personally identifiable information about a dancer, so imagine the leverage the city employees have if they visit said dancer ITC and negotiate sex, then apply the leverage for all kinds of evil reasons. Which I sure never happens. /sarcasm.
I think they want to send the message that no traveling dancers, not even Stormy Daniels, will be tolerated unless they do it their way and they allow it. It's a power trip for LE and city hall and the bureaucrats that run the permit offices.
A very well-written article by Josephine, and highlights the hypocrisy of government/police and abuse of power. I can’t predict the future of the Detroit clubs, but I wonder how this crackdown hasn’t spread to Dearborn/Inkster clubs that still operate untethered.
With time, seems more and more cities are becoming anti strip clubs - Detroit clubs having been forced to get rid of private VIP rooms IMO does not bode well - seems the city is trying to change its image and being a mecca of strip clubs does not promote a positive image
1.) Josie's a good friend of mine and I used to work with her at my former club. Nina also knows her.
2.) I gave her that meme to use for the article lol
3.) Detroit City Council is trying to drives extras out of the city limits and "clean up" the clubs. A common misperception (paranoia with the pieces of shit who frequently posts on USA Sex Guide) is that vice will come after clubs outside of the city. Detroit Vice is comprised only of city police officers and they have zero jurisdiction outside of the city limits.
There was a post a few weeks ago regarding how the extras came to be so rampant and popular. Former (corrupt af) Mayor Kwamye Kilpatrick basically had vice dismantled for a few years. In 2013, vice was put back together and began raiding again.
Detroit police have cracked down this year by enforcing laws already on the books. Detroit requires dance cards for strippers, and has some very tight restrictions on contact between dancers and patrons. In the past the restrictions were ignored.
Some Detroit politicians and pastors believe--or profess to believe--that strip clubs bring crime and lawlessness into Detroit neighborhoods. They make a lot of noise around election time and force the police to act. However, strip clubs help the Detroit economy, and the cash taken in gets spread around in the form of bribes. Corruption, I hope, will defeat the do-gooders in the long run.
The Detroit crack down has not affected the Wayne County suburbs like Inkster, Romulus, Dearborn, and Southgate. The clubs in these towns have good relations with the police and politicians.
^^^^ I agree with Jackslash's perspective on such matters.
SJG
I was in Penthouse a couple of weeks ago and there are curtains now up in from of the booths. Lots of folks gettin' busy back there since there are no curtains between booths. Things are looking three thumbs up from my perspective.
What? I always came to Detroit for the great weather and nice smooth roads!
Josephine is a really good writer
Idk why the rest of my post cut off. So I take it a lot of taxpayer money is going down the drain for nonsense then.
Yes and no. Let's say vice comes in and your dancing for a customer. Your sitting on him topless. That's immediately three tickets (four if is dick is out or in you). 1 ticket for touching a customer. 1 ticket for being topless while not on a stage. 1 ticket for having your butt exposed while not on a stage. (We have to wear robes, long skirts, or serongs that cover, at minimum, our gluteal folds while working the floor.)
Each ticket is a $300-$400 fine depending on the charge and is a prostitution misdemeanor. However, the judge and prosecutor will work with first (and often) second time offenders with a plea deal. The deal is usually paying each fine in full and agreeing to zero police contact for x amount of months (lately it's been 9-12 months). Zero police contact hasn't really ever been defined to my knowledge, but basically means "stay out of trouble".
The Detroit City SOB Ordinance says all entertainers have to be on a permanent fixed platform of 18 inches or taller to legally be topless. The ordinance also has a strict no touching guideline and says customers and entertainers are to remain a minimum of three feet distance at all times (I could not find the specific clause, but it is there somewhere).
Anyway, to answer your question - yes, it is a waste of energy and time. However, the fines bring in so much money for the city.
*you're sitting on him
(Wowwww, I'm a fuck up.)
Also, to add, a lot of clubs have added platforms in vips. In case of a raid and assuming those platforms are of code (three feet away and 18 inches tall or higher), no ticket should be issued so long as the customer stays seated and the entertainer is COMPLETELY on the platform - no feet on the floor. No tickets in this scenario, unless the guy's dick is out.
Also, fun fact: the MLCC (liquor commission) website lists violations for previous years. If a strip clubs has any violations, they can be found there. Even more interesting (and scary), dancer's government names will be listed if they received a vice ticket while also stating their charge(s).
Every State government has its own cabaret laws. If you were to do a search, use "cabaret" or "sexually oriented business" instead of "strip club".
Umm.... this is should be extremely obvious. The laws are created for dancers and staff, but it goes both ways. If the dancers aren't supposed to touch, then the customers aren't either. It is literally the same here in Detroit. The ordinance says nothing about customers specifically, but the customer still gets a solicitation misdemeanor ticket if s/he touches the dancer. The dancer still gets a ticket (consent or not) for the touching taking place.
Most states have a no touching clause somewhere in their cabaret laws.
Also, you aren't "allowed" to touch them. Your phrasing is poor and consent to touch is appreciated.
Also, I've posted this in the past, but here it is again.
The City of Detroit's Sexually Orientated Business Ordinance: library.municode.com
Oh, and further, here is Michigan's Compiled Law search site. If the City's Ordinance says MCL #_____, Ibuse this site to look up that MCL.
I'm quite versed when it comes to cabaret ordinances and laws. I got a ticket in 2013, when I was a baby stripper, and made it a point to learn all I could to not be "ignorant of the law" again.
Plus, as independent contractors, the tickets are on us. We are our own business, and like any other business, laws are put in place for regulation. It is our own responsibility to know local and State cabaret ordinances/laws as independent contractors.
Gee, I wonder why some of those vice cops need to cover their face. Would it be crazy for me to think that some of those guys go to clubs as customers because, well because, they would like to get a BJ?
It makes sense to me. It would be really awkward if a vice cop issues a ticket to a dancer that he previously got a BJ from, and she recognized him. It wouldn’t be as awkward if his face is covered so that there is little chance the dancer may recognize him.
Providence, RI, had a major crackdown several years ago when it was discovered that a 14-year-old girl (runaway) was being pimped out of Cheaters, a club that eventually closed and then re-opened as the Wild Zebra.
The media coverage and police crackdown brought the scene down for a good stretch. The problem (or benefit, depending on perspective) is that there needs to be both a political will and budget to continue enforcement. Lacking that, things tend to creep back to whatever the clubs are willing to allow, which at most Providence clubs is a lot.
Detroit might be going through an enforcement cycle right now. The real question is 'how long will it last?'.
With the drug problem in america it is comforting to know law enforcement has their priorties straight!
Usually, the cops respond to media and political pressure. They are rarely moral crusaders (though it does happen).
During the period when indoor prostitution was legal in Rhode Island, the cops were quietly fine with it. It made it easier to focus on higher priorities and it decreased streetwalking prostitution (a more public-level nuisance).
In fact, when the indoor prostitution loophole got legislated out of existence, the availability of FS extras inside the clubs didn't change at all. In fact, some of the most lenient clubs had hired police details inside the clubs on weekend nights and still nothing changed.
But, again, when Cheaters got busted for hiring a 14-year-old runaway and both the media and politicians got wind of it, suddenly the cops were forced to give a shit.
Nah it's election season and from what I've heard it's slowed down in the past month. Those clubs are big money makers for the city and let's be clear with all of the executives around the world who come to Detroit because of the Big 3 these aren't going anywhere. LA, NYC, Chicago, and Miami have well known high priced escorts. Detroit has strip clubs