Those human moments...

Ladies and gents please learn from ishmael's mistakes. This was a clear missed oppurtunity for OTC or even better a mercy fuck. She could me on your couch wearing your t shirt, eating haagen daaz, watching Neflix before round 2. Instead she prolly called up some ex boyfriend and is getting plowed as you wrote up that summary. SMH. i guess it was one for the books.

Give Ishmael a break, he's not from New Jersey

Idk. I think she had no intention of going OTC with him or even giving him dances. IMHO she was already getting ready to leave and decided to touch base with him to keep him on the hook for the next time. It's possible she also needed to kill a few more minutes before she could leave.

For me that would suck as she would be burning 15 minutes of my time with drama without the ultimate payoff. But I think CMI enjoyed the interaction, so all power to him.

@Dugan

Were you raised in an orphanage?

That was a tender moment but if I was Ishmael I'd check my pockets to make sure I still had all my $$$

Papi, please elaborate. I'm not sure what you are implying with that question.

Im not trying to badger ishmael. Sadly I have played the white knight like that in so many cases only to see the girl find comfort in some guy who was a bit more cunning. The worst was in college, when you Id play the white knight comforting some girl who was having a bad day and seeing her leave my room to "Freshen up". Then she wouldnt return and Id think she must have grabbed a cab home. Imagine my face the next morning as she walked out of a friends room who spent the night railing her.

^ well damn

I learned the best practice in this case is to the gentle caress almost to the point you are fondling her. She will then melt in your hands like putty. Of course I woudlnt recommend you do this to strippers or strangers, but if you find yourself in a friendzone with a woman you really like dont pass an oppurtunity like that up. You will get laid and she will wake up the next morning with a new found respect for you.

NJ, as someone who is constantly either capitalizing on OTC opportunities or keeping his eyes open for them, I think you're off base on this one. This girl came across as burnt out and already with one foot out the door, not one who was primed to accept an OTC offer. Opinions will differ I would have let that one go too.

I would agree with rickdugan.

My theory is someone stiffed her and instead of being a bitch she decided to go home. Nothing like a good railing and tip to make her sleep well. That and some breakfast for dinner.

My orphanage comment was meant to say that you rarely if ever convey any empathy and seem solely focused on whatever is best for you (as an orphan that was never loved and was not taught empathy)

Papi, my entire life revolves around empathizing with other people. This includes my family, the people I interact with in running my business, religious and community charitable activities, etc. Most of my days and nights are consumed with understanding and meeting the needs of others.

But the strip club is the one place where I can lay down those burdens and make it about me. I want to be entertained and, if the stars align, fuck a beautiful girl. If I do get sucked into some sob story, I usually have an agenda in letting it play out and quite often it is a hustle anyway.

If any of you enjoy a little dancer drama and maybe those special connections then so be it. It's your time and money to spend as you see fit. But my cup overfloweth already in the drama and human connection departments, so I use the club for purposes that suit me. My obligations extend to paying what I owe and treating dancers with kindness and dignity, but not to anything beyond that.

I may be the only guy on who'd be happy just to hold her, stroke her hair, massage her feet I'm such a wanna be cuck

This was the opportunity to aks her to get something to eat. Let's ditch this place and get a milkshake or a piece of pie. Then you go to the bar then you play trapeze with her. That said, maybe Ish didn't want to mess with it. So why we all judge him, sometimes WE are not in the mood to spend the next 5 hours consoling a gal just to bone. Some gals are worth it but I know many a dancer that I wanted nothing to do with outside the club but was more than happy to deal with her in 15 minute increments only.

She's a nice young woman and she's cute enough to get dances with on occasion, but I'm not really driven to do OTC with her even if that's on the table.

On a given night, she'll sometimes come over and we'll get a drink, shoot the bull, and have a chuckle. Sometimes a couple of dances happen and sometimes they don't. I think she knows that there are other dancers who interest me more than her.

Could it have been some sort of a long con on her part? Sure. I guess. Anything is possible. But, both in the moment and this morning looking back on it, I strongly believe that she had the shittiest of shitty nights and needed a time out before leaving. And that's fine.

And, when she was ready to go, I got the strong impression that she was just done. She was appreciative, but clearly not in mood to take "work" home with her. And that's also fine.

I posted it here because it was a very non-standard moment in a strip club. Seemed like a good topic for discussion / debate.

thanks for posting.

Only you know dude. A lot of these guys are spewing fantasy level bull shit.

^ If it wasn’t for fantasy level bullshit, three quarters of the board would cease to exist. ;)

I think it’s time to merge Stripper Web with TUSCL.

We can do a draft and pick only the best of both sites.

Leaving the trash like Juice Rickdugan and SJG behind.

^god no! The pink site is unfuckucking bearable.

I'm with shareher on this one. Yeah, I've missed out on more than my share of possibilities. But I'd rather be able to look at myself in the mirror the next morning without guilt.

Based on the OP's description, pursuing that would seem predatory to me, not opportunistic.

Ishmael you did the right thing on multiple levels.

And unless I skipped over it being said before besides being able to look at yourself in the mirror if for one moment the more predatory of the guys on here don't think the dancers talk about amongst themselves you're not thinking it through.

This is a club he is a regular........

Yes, I'm a regular at this club and don't like to burn bridges. That said, if I'd made the wrong move (whatever that might have been), then I'm pretty sure that it would only take the passage of some small amount time and a larger amount of money before it would all be forgotten. Most strip clubs lack a long institutional memory.

But I'll be honest and say I wasn't really thinking in those terms at the time. My gut instinct was that I should just shut up and not think with my gonads (for once...).

If there's a SC benefit for me out of all this, then it's possible that a new dancer I like will ask about me in the dressing room, and this dancer from the story above will give me a thumbs up. Who knows? Also, the bartender bought me a drink after the dancer left, so I think she's on Team Ishmael. That can't hurt.

“I think it’s time to merge Stripper Web with TUSCL.”

Rick posts on Stripperweb too, so he would probably be somewhat immune :p

Rick, I do have to wonder though. You definitely post with a different tone, and you seem to self censor yourself on stripperweb a little. Has a frequent SW user ever found your posting activity here?

She made it very clear "this isn't a thing" so I would leave it as is and just enjoy it. When someone's having a shitty day the worse thing I want to do is make it awkward and creepy by trying to turn it into something else. See it for what it is, Ishmael did the right thing.

Thanks for sharing, CMI.

I remember on my first shift ever, I got emotionally shaken because it was the first time a customer tried to finger me and I was caught off guard. He acted like I was a dumb ass for not letting him.

Luckily, there were three customers who were nice about me sitting at their table and behaving a similar way as the dancer in CMI’s post. It cheered me up a little, and I asked them what song they wanted me to dance to. Someone said Slayer as a joke and I accepted the challenge and did it.

When I made the request, the DJ said “are you fucking kidding me” but the club was slow so he allowed it. But the customers appreciated it and tipped me nicely on stage for it.

And then they told me that I was too sweet to be a dancer and that I should be a bartender instead or something. But thinking back on it, I beg to differ.

I would've done the same thing, just enjoy it for whatever it is

While I try not to cultivate an "I'm your safe space" vibe (as I said in another thread, I'm insidious lol), if elected, I am happy to serve for a short period.

Good on you, CMI, for taking the high road and just letting the dancer decompress. I think the fact that the bartender brought her a free drink reinforces just what a shit night she really was having.

I was thinking much the same as gammanu. I can’t think of a single thing I’d’ve done differently.

To add on to what I've posted, I think that anyone who has been a regular in a club for some time encounters something like this eventually. I admit that once upon a time I used to enjoy being the "safe haven" guy a bit more, but those days are long gone. Nowadays I shut it down unless I think that it will lead to OTC opportunities.

I had one of these recently who, if I let her, would sit with me for an hour + and give me updates on her custody battle with a relative (who had full custody of her son) and other aspects of her life. Now this is a chick who I took OTC once many months ago, but I stopped because the experience wasn't great and she is a little crazy. Yet she felt comfortable enough to continue using me as her safe stop. After a couple of instances of this, the next time I just shut it down by telling her that I'd like to sit alone for a while. She looked a little hurt at first, but that's not my problem. What WAS my problem is that she was a buzz kill who was taking away time that I could spend exploring better options.

I told that last story at the risk of re-igniting Papi's accusations that I'm some kind of sociopath, lol, but it is what it is. In my experience, once a dancer starts taking a guy for granted enough that she expects emotional support from him, her entertainment value drops dramatically.

@rickdugan

There's a difference between sharing a moment or taking a break vs being an emotional tampon. Ishmael's was the former, yours was the latter. His was something that shows comfort and compassion, yours more so drama filled and taxing. If you can't see the difference, maybe Papi's comments are closer to the truth than you'd like to admit.

Good luck to whatever works for you at the end of the day.

I actually wasn't trying to pass judgement on Dugan, just ragging on him a bit as some of us have particular things we get ragged on about.

Stripfighter posted: "His was something that shows comfort and compassion, yours more so drama filled and taxing."

For you types who get worked up over any thought of conflict, maybe my rebuff would have been "dramatic and taxing", but not for me. It took me 20 seconds to get rid of her and then I didn't give it or her another thought. Much better in my view then sitting there for 15 minutes - which could have been more if she chose - being used as a comfort stop.

should have been "...than sitting there..."

TLDR I’ve decided Rick Dugan really does deserve the mockery that he gets from the board members here.

Below I will explain why and Rick is welcome to tell me if he thinks I’m wrong. I’m a pretty open minded person.

Rick Dugan strikes me as the kind of person who likes to view himself as different than he truly is.

For example, when I made my thread about “customers who like drama” he seemed to have a knee jerk reaction to shut down what I said and said that I am confusing a stripper’s reaction with customer intent.

I will be rewriting it (I’m just lazy) and I’ll definitely be more specific with my stuff for sure. But in the meantime, I will just go ahead and say that I suspect this guy is a huge stripper drama lover for sure.

Another point. This dude posts on Stripperweb all the time. Admittedly, he doesn’t say anything (potentotally offensive) on there that he would here. Now, he could just be there for insight but he already once said something to the effect of “pay no attention to the hens clucking when the rooster isn’t around.” So I don’t think he reads it for any insight.

I want to also make the disclaimer that I don’t really judge the behavior. Lots of customers enjoy it. On this discussion board, both GACA and Subraman have both been very honest about their love of stripper drama. Especially when it leads to them getting OTC at a favorable rate for them. They have a good system that works for them, and I will agree that it is effective.

Rick is in the same camp as them and loves it too. But at best he will claim he just puts up with it just for the favorable OTC.

But let’s face it, he selected the (custody battling) dancer for what she was and enjoyed her for her problematic ways.

Even taking his motives at face value, someone who is as skilled at reading people/situations would have known how to turn someone down in a more gentle manner. But let’s face it, he loved seeing the look of rejection in her eye. She was upset and he enjoyed stirring the pot.

^ Contrary to popular theory I like Ricki Boi, he reminds me every day of how not to be a man, and act on my best impulses not my worst. I believe I said this a long time ago, Ricky is the guy who created the Ststem which the unstated question is always there, “what’s in it for me ?”

I'm not going to pile on Rick Dugan. I posted this hoping for a debate of some sort, and that's what I got.

I also loathe stripper drama. And, if she had sat down next to me and started telling me tales of woe, then I would have reacted differently. If she had tried to coax me into a private room with a sob story, then I would have reacted differently. I hate that stuff. I don't have time for it and I shut it down quickly.

But, she made it abundantly clear from the first moment she arrived that she didn't want to talk at all. And she made it just as clear when she left that she wanted nothing from me. So, I guess the argument I'm making is that there's a difference between "stripper drama" (which is often overblown or entirely manufactured), and a young woman who is genuinely hurting about something. Both of those things can happen in a strip club, but I don't think the customers see the latter very often.

Regarding the time "wasted" ... meh. It's 15 minutes. I've spent hundreds of hours in strip clubs (errr ... thousands?) and I'm going to spend hundreds of hours more. So, I think I'll be fine. I mean, it's not like she massively inconvenienced me or burned through a ton of my resources.

As far as I can tell, all she needed was for me to treat her like a person and not be a dick for 15 minutes.

"maybe my rebuff would have been "dramatic and taxing", but not for me" --rickdugan

I wasn't talking about your reaction. I was referring to the "comfort stop." The girl in Ishmael's case wanted to escape and chill vs yours, who wanted to vent and drag you into her drama. For me, one is enjoyable, one is not. For some guys like both, others neither.

Pile away CMI. I post on here as an extension of my strip club adventures - kind of a way to relive them when I cannot club. If a couple of weird dudes with a boatload of troll accounts - and maybe one or two legit sissies - want to take exception to it then they are free to do so. Funny though, I only post a fraction of the shit that I do on here. I can only imagine if I posted more. ;)

As far as your take on this, as I said before, to each his own. There are some guys who enjoy that type of interaction with dancers and it's their dime and time to spend how they see fit. I'm just not one of them so I shared an alternate viewpoint.

@stripfighter: Thanks for clarifying. I guess for me the two situations are more or less the same, but again, to each his own. I don't care if CMI pays dancers, or doesn't for that matter, to do circus tricks or to tell him that they love him. So long as he enjoys the time and money he spends, then he is getting value from the experience.

@rickdugan ... Yeah, but I didn't enjoy it. I could never take pleasure in someone else's genuine pain. That said, I can respect someone else's genuine pain in a way that I don't when it comes to 'stripper drama', which I see as toxic, fake, and far more manipulative.

At a certain point, I reached the conclusion that she was being human with me, and all I had to do was be human right back at her ... and it lasted 15 minutes.

It was unusual, but it wasn't a chore.

nicespice posted: "Rick is in the same camp as them and loves it too. But at best he will claim he just puts up with it just for the favorable OTC.

But let’s face it, he selected the (custody battling) dancer for what she was and enjoyed her for her problematic ways."

More than just a claim nicespice. But you are right that I do like girls like that sometimes when I can leverage it into a "connection" that leads to OTC. This girl fell into that camp, where she initially refused my OTC offers until I sat with her a couple of times. But once I took her out and learned that she was batshit crazy, I had no more use for her and, hence, no reason to listen to her prattle on about her life anymore.

What CMI experienced was a pure comfort stop. Again, cool beans, but even the girls who have been OTc with me 20 times and are very relaxed around me wouldn't dream of using me for that 'cause I'm not that guy. Again, this is no shot at CMI - he has his own particular thing and I have mine. Same could be said for each person on here and it's all good so long as they are not overtly trying to hurt the girls or otherwise mistreat them.

Glad I could clarify, even if it likely makes me look worse to you than your belief that I am just inconsistent. ;)

I say what I say because if I am remembering right, you don’t like dancers who are “high volume” even though they would be the ones who would be more likely to have lower prices.

But you seem like a rational man. So I can’t blame you looking for a balance between the two.

Wouldn’t that force you to find higher drama dancers by default? (Easier to get them to make decisions emotionally?) Maybe you didn’t start out that way, but maybe you developed a taste for stripper drama? And that a lot of it is on autopilot?

Heck, I recall there was an accusation sent to you that you like druggies. I don’t quite remember if that was the truth or not.

I’m just having a hard time imagining you saying you don’t have the patience for it, when I think you do.

I've had it happen a few times. honestly i am honored that a girl feels that comfortable with hanging with me.

i like to troll a bit but i sometimes like to drop little truths. i completely understand what rick is saying because im self employed. once you make your own money, it makes sense what he is saying. if your get paid by the hour you wont understand. once you learn to make money you can tell who is wasting your time.

for example i like to buy houses, i dont care if the seller is going through a divorce or is selling due to medical bills. im going to leverage it, and make a profit. you can also tell when someone is using leverage on you.

Rick and salty can drop the truth straight into my pussy!!

Nawwww ... There's Trish. Trolling for truth, justice, and the American way.

tuscl.net

A quick update for the few who might be curious. I saw this dancer again earlier this week. I gently inquired about what had happened to her on that night and she said "I don’t really want to talk about it. But thank you for being cool about it."

I dropped it. We chatted a bit and then she excused herself (I think she saw a regular come in). Whatever it was, I'm pretty sure it wasn't a con or hustle.

Sometimes we are best off simply not drawing any conclusion about the motives or intentions of others. Good choice CMI.

It's cool just to be a human being with someone if they need it. Not everything is about getting what you want. I have a dancer that is always happy to see me I don't get dances with normally but I enjoy our conversation she wants to get into an industry I know a bit about. We chat about that, that's all. Recently, however, she asked me if I want to grab a dance and I did and it was by far one of the top dances I've received in the last year. Afterwards, I was talking to her and she said you just a good person and I enjoyed spending time with you. It was her last today at the club and she is moving into a new job. I think she wanted to reward me were helping her.

It sounds like you both got something beneficial out of it. Good man.

In that moment, the goal wasn't "getting bitches", it was "being human".

Sounds like a good way to distinguish sexualizing vs objectifying, to bring up another recent discussion.

It does seem that PLs fall into one of two categories: you either love women or despise them. Happy to be with CMI in the first category.

mcorle, I loved your input in the other thread. “I love boobies” was such a great reply.

@CMI thank for the closure on the story

Lol @phat I dont think his gesture should get that combative of a response, but I do sense signs of what they call "White knight syndrome". As J Cole eloquently says "Dont save her, she dont want to be saved" While dancers are human, they dance because the positives far outweigh the negatives. The money is good, it gives them flexibility to vacation when they want, and if they work at a great club the experience can be fun.

Nope. Not looking for pats on the back. Not sure what that gets me from a message board filled with people I'm never going to meet. I definitely don't need a pat on the back from a troll.

I posted it because it was an unusual interaction between a customer and a stripper. She had a bad day at work. I don't know why. And I don't need to know why. But it was unusual because she broke out of her personna.

If any of that pisses you off, then that says more about you and your shitty outlook.