Trying to setup first-time OTC, any suggestions?

52 comments

• san_jose_guy

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  6 years ago

  Treat her in a civilian manner, as opposed to treating her like someone who is being bought with money. SJG Steve Jobs' Most Inspiring Speech [view link] Celeb No Bra Day [view link] Wendy Brown, very good! [view link] [view link] [view link] [view link] [view link]
• Warrior15

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  6 years ago

  People have different definitions of what they want on an OTC. Do you just want her to come over and have sex once, then leave. Do you want to make a date out of it ? Do you want multiple sessions ? Do you want her to stay the night and do it again in the morning ? All of that comes into the pricing. On #2. Do you trust the girl ? Precautions like that are if you are scared of being rolled by the Pimp. I don't know your situation. I like to meet them at the bar of the hotel. Chat and have a drink first. The girl actually likes this so they can get comfortable with me. Then we go to the room.
• impala

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  6 years ago

  Ask her if she does anything on the outside, if she says yes ask her how much to hang out for an hour
• twentyfive

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  6 years ago

  Spending $300. each time you see her ITC she’s gonna look for the same amount OTC, which should leave her with at least 30% more than she keeps I’d be careful but not worry too much you seem to have some trust built up, and even though we know strippers can be stupid, I doubt she’d want to lose a good spending regular. Here’s what I’d do just to prevent a ghost story, I’d meet at a bar of a hotel or near a hotel but not actually rent the room till she gets there, you can book it online with your phone while having drinks and that way you prevent her from having a room number till you actually go upstairs, easier than texting her a number then waiting for her to arrive.
• JohnSmith69

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  6 years ago

  The same questions have been asked dozens of times over the years so you’ll find good advice if you search the discussions. But to address your questions briefly. I think $300-500 is a reasonable price, depending upon the girl, her looks, the city, what she does, and how long she spends with you. You will hear several guys advocate lower prices than that but I question how realistic that is. As for safety don’t be wreckless but there should be no need to be fearful. Guys here have done OTC with strippers thousands of times and to the best of my knowledge there has never been a serious safety issue. I do often text the dancer my room no shortly before she gets there but that’s because I have just checked in and not because of safety. If you are genuinely afraid that a dancers boyfriend is going to rob you then you should not be seeing her.
• san_jose_guy

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  6 years ago

  Warrior15 +10, for his outstanding insights and advice. "Ask her if she does anything on the outside, if she says yes ask her how much to hang out for an hour" That's basically asking her if she is a prostitute. Now given that you've already done lots of ITC P4P with her, this may seem moot. But you still should not have to talk to her that way. Impala -2 SJG
• san_jose_guy

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  6 years ago

  Is she in your hometown, meaning that in her mind you have no excuse for not fucking her everyday? Do you have an SO you need to hide this from, and is that what the money is really for, to make her understand it has to stay in bounds? Not meaning to interrogate you, so I won't take offense if you decline to answer. SJG
• san_jose_guy

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  6 years ago

  If it were me, it would be a girl not in my hometown. And I'd of been getting her softened up to the idea that I am "taking care" of her by giving her money, rather than paying her. And I'd of been steering her towards the idea of regular outside photo modelling sessions, which usually are also over nighters, with that morning round. I'd of selected the girl with all this in mind from when I first approached her. And I don't think cheating on an SO is a good long term idea at all. My .02 SJG
• impala

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  6 years ago

  Ask her how much the club takes when she does a VIP, and offer a little more than that
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  $300 is a lot for 30+ and as a dancer she does not have the risk and overhead of an escort. If this is a multi-hour thing with multiple shots, different positions then recover, then going again. Sure $300 is okay. You are bringing her found money -- little to no risk. Is she hosting or are you? If you, then even more so. This is business. Don't be scared and don't be weird. Tell her what you want to do and what you expect. But for better advice, provide more info... Where (hotel, etc.?) and what do you want (quickie? multi-hour? dinner? BJ in the car?) How hot is she? What kind of club and dancer? I.e., does she strike you as a $500/hr escort or $80/quickie type? The $300-$500/hr escorts are few and far between. Almost all are through agencies AND have names (pornstar, etc) otherwise a regular escort you would have found on BackPage before the seizure would be $200/hr tops for someone experienced and very good looking. The part-time, semi-pro, under-the-radar "30+" types would get $50-$100/hr for a quick (15 min bj and fuck) and maybe tops $200 (more likely $150) for a full hour, with 2 shots on goal. This is a fantasy for you, but it is for her as well. Most dancers who put out ITC club will do gigs OTC and when they know you as a regular, where YOU are providing a safe location, and she has a comfort level with you, then you have already lowered the risk premium by a huge factor. Now it is just agreeing a price and you can feel free to offer less than $300 without being cheap. Again, don't know what you want for a service. But telling her that you'd like to make this a regular thing around her schedule, and need to find a number you can afford, that is not going to be met with alarm. I used to find these "under the radar" types. One was a hot millennial who was skinny with huge tits, would text her and meet in her car in the parking garage between our office, and would jerk me off for $60 but we never went beyond that (and she didn't in a million years think of herself as a whore) Another was a neighborhood mom. Basically FWB and we'll text back and forth. She wouldn't have made it too far as a dancer, but she was cute enough, with killer tits, and every few weeks she'd give me the greatest BBBJ and lick up every drop. Was just a cool chick. Unfortunately she got outed socially and went underground (luckily wasn't in my clique) These arrangements are great and not what the $300/hr pro can command.
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  That extra-long comment was just for question #1. > 2. Someone mentioned it is very dangerous to do OTC, and I remember one thing to do is to text the hotel room number to the dancer only 30 mins before appointment, is that true? Need to know more of your setup, but mostly, no it is not. With an incall off of the internet and not through an agency, there is a reasonable chance of having it be a setup for a robbery. In this case there is practically zero chance of that. In either case, what the hell is giving her the room number only 30 minutes prior going to do for you?? Don't do outcall off the internet. I have don't in years past in drunken moments of weakness. And they ranged from mundane to truly hot (with a young black masseuse who I fucked multiple times for the price of a massage and no tip -- it was a while ago, in fact so long ago I got her out of the Yellow Pages.) I was lucky every time. Times have changed and this is much more of a bad scene now. If you're worried about it, first all have NOTHING but the agreed upon cash with you (and perhaps your car keys.) Leave you wallet, ID, wedding ring, Rolex, everything in your car. Leave your car keys with the front desk and tell them your going on a run (this is optional). Discuss before if she is coming alone (that shouldn't be assumed and may not be likely) and make sure the peephole works. When she gets in lock the door behind her. But if it was a setup for a robbery (which I seriously doubt, like 100% doubt) then whether you give her the room number 30 min or 30 hours before doesn't make a difference.
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  *With an outcall off of the internet (i.e., when they come to do)
• twentyfive

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  6 years ago

  ^^^ It’s very unlikely to be a setup but strippers are notorious for being late often several hours, and just plain not showing up at all. That’s why I suggest if it’s to be a hotel, meeting at a bar, and not renting the room till you are both in the same place. It would suck to spend the money for a hotel room and then get ghosted, that my point.
• Lone_Wolf

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  6 years ago

  Grab your nuts and text her location, time and money offered. Go a little low. Easy to up. Impossible to go down. That's as specific as I get. When she arrives, start the action quick. Don't act shy. You know her and know where she works. Risk is low. Just hide your wallet.
• Subraman

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  6 years ago

  -->"1. How much money normally she would expect, assuming she earns $300 from me every club visit. (I don't want to spend tons of money on this, since I want to make OTC regularly with her if it goes well and I don't want to be broken. So not one-time thing.)" Exactly the right attitude of picking something affordable to start, since you want to continue. I don't know what the going rates are in your area, but in most areas, with a 30+ year old, $300 ($350 if she's pretty damn hot for a 30 year old) would usually be fine. -->"2. Someone mentioned it is very dangerous to do OTC, and I remember one thing to do is to text the hotel room number to the dancer only 30 mins before appointment, is that true?" Okay, I personally think you are Nucking Futs to get the hotel room before she gets there. These girls flake early and often. I've confirmed with a girl 2 hours before we were supposed to meet, and then not have her show up. For me, at least, complete sucker's move to get the hotel before she gets there, unless you like giving your money to hotel people. So, that solves your dilemma of when to text her about the room -- you won't have a room before she gets there. I just can't imagine any reason you need to have the room in advance. I usually: - Have her meet me in a bar or restaurant-bar. We have some warm-up drinks and food. I've already picked out the hotel, and the bar is within walking distance. - While we're at the bar, I jump on my phone and book the room. - We walk over to the hotel, the first time either of us find out the room number is when I check in. I send her over to wait for me in the lobby, if I don't want her to hear my real name, see my driver's license and credit card, etc.
• shailynn

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  6 years ago

  I love how San Jose Guy posts the most on this thread and has never done OTC in his life.
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  AGREED WITH THE ABOVE -- yeah, but outcall hookers and strippers are notorious flakes (that's a euphemism). All my experiences have been on the road when the room is already paid for (the fuck if I am going to do this near my home!) so all my advice assumes you have the room. I am giving advice on outcall service providers and just throwing out commonsense platitudes on pay-for-play. So I am overstepping on advice about OTC with a stripper -- never done except for fucked whores who said they stripped. Don't get the room in advance. That's good advice. At the same time, based on your questions you seem pretty green (no offense) so my advise added the other advice isn't going to hurt.
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  Fuck San Jose Guy. I hit ignore on that motherfucker so I'm missing all his good posts.
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  If you want to take the flake element out of it -- and if she's a semi-pro (which it sounds like) the flake risk is sky high -- then ask for an incall (her location).
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  @Subraman -- sounds like you're overpaying
• Subraman

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  6 years ago

  -->"- Have her meet me in a bar or restaurant-bar. We have some warm-up drinks and food. I've already picked out the hotel, and the bar is within walking distance." A little bit more on my brilliant advice above :) To me, there's strong reasons I deal with the flakiness of a stripper instead of going to a nice reliable escort. And one of the biggest reasons is, I'm not interested in "go to the room for an hour, fuck, go home" experience. If that IS what you're looking for, that's fine, of course, and you can stop reading. But for me a big advantage of a stripper is how unprofessional she is. I can get a stripper to agree to $300, then I tell her to show up at a restaurant, we have dinner and drinks, then we go out bar hopping together, then we finally get to the hotel room ... and we're saying goodbye 5 hours later, all for that same $300. Would have cost me an easy $800-$1200 with an escort. So, anyway, the point is, if you like hanging out and drinking with the stripper, go for it, I've NEVER had one ask me for more money than what we'd already agreed on.
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  Impala has a pretty innovative strategy, but I am a free market guy. $300 is stratospheric for an escort in every city except may Las Vegas. If she is a semi-pro, with no agency, no risk, a vetted client, you should NOT be paying anything like that. If has is just a worn-out 30+ stripper, not a pornstar or feature dancer, anything above $150/hr is charity.
• Subraman

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  6 years ago

  Jim... in my city, at that price you just plain would not ever score OTC, ever. Some cities might be a bit cheaper than mine, but I'd be surprised if anyone was getting $150/hr strippers. Keeping in mind that there's no reason to assume she's worn-out -- I've met some crazy-hot 30+-year-old strippers, and I'm willing to give OP the benefit of the doubt. Also worth nothing that your quote of "$150/hr" might be a continuation of your application of the escort model to OTC. IME Only the most hardcore escort-like strippers quote per-hour -- you hear per-hour, it's time to run. In fact, in a few decades of doing OTC, I don't think I've ever done "per hour", we just agree on price, and however long the OTC lasts, it lasts -- that could be 6 hours, not terribly uncommon that she just stays overnight because she's drunk.
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  Fair enough. The only thing OTC that I can claim credit to is a stripper (quite hot) who said "my shifts up so meet me outside." And that was $80 for a very elaborate HJ (basically an abbreviated version of the best VIP room treatment I've had) If she is a marque stripper whose 'next level' is OTC then I agree. If she's an OTR semi-pro who doesn't want to pay the house its cut, then I then $150 is generous. I don't know the context here.
• max_starr

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  6 years ago

  Just ask her what she wants....I have been charged less for OTC by most because they like me...I am not a hassle...i am generous....and they don't have to tip the house and every damn other person...I've typically paid $200 - $300 for a couple hour otc date...and that is well worth it for me
• Warrior15

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  6 years ago

  $150 per hour is about the going rate in Tijuana. Any city in the USA, that offer would be laughed at. Any quality girl in a major US city is going to want at least $300. And that is just for the one hour. You want more than just the hour of sex, then expect to pay more. Well for an 8+ that is.
• max_starr

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  6 years ago

  You need to keep in mind though that I was doing this a few times a week, so weekly probably spending $1,000 a week....If a girl wants what you think is a large sum of money, tell her she can get that amount, but you want a little more action...for $1,000 I want 4 dates....:)
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  And yes, while I again I am not OTC pro, if this is a "for the night" kinda gig, then the price is higher. If it is a BJ then she hits the road that is something else. As I wrote in my first post, good advice requires context. But I tend to disagree at there are "OTC prices" and "Escort prices" -- I think the local pay-for-play market sets the price, and then it is whatever is worked out. But bottom line, yes you are correct that I am applying escort economics to this, which I would be willing to concede maybe misaligned. But I have 'dated' a lot of escorts who also strip (or otherwise "stripped") and unless they have a good book of business, they will and should be held to escort prices.
• max_starr

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  6 years ago

  @Warrior15 I remember when it was $40 in TJ....lol
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  @Warrior15 -- I am not sure who is doing the laughing on that one. I have paid $150/hr in every region of the country, even Las Vegas. I have paid a lot less too. And not much more. I am not talking about chicks who have to put their dentures on the nightstand to get going. Anything above $150/hr is for agencies and well-established providers. And suckers.
• chairsky

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  6 years ago

  @san_jose_guy, we are in the same city, she is working in the club not far from to me. I used to have good time with her in the club, just want to have more fun (may be sex) in more private area.
• max_starr

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  6 years ago

  @JimOsterberg, I'm with you....but you probably get to know them well like I do and that goes a long way....for them to avoid...LE....robbery...assholes...etc...or have a regular who is dependable and pays every time
• twentyfive

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  6 years ago

  The OP seems to be replying to the one guy here that has never been in a strip club in his life, we're wasting good advice on a loser.
• max_starr

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  6 years ago

  I have also had plenty of opportunistic ones...I need $100 for xxx, come and fuck me...(no i don't want any BJs thank you)
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  Sounds good. For those with OTC experience, I agree that sounds better than an escort, and I agree which you describe @Subraman and others, that would go for a heavy price with traditional P4P. That's not my thing any more. I am reformed. But I did see a lot of women who were relatively high-end caliber and I routinely paid < $100 for a suck-and-fuck (not specific time limit but ranged from 15 to 45 min). They would talk about getting $1500/night and doing dinner dates or extended stays. But that wasn't remotely what I wanted. But if I had rapport with a dancer and do things on a slow pace over more than an hour. Sure $300 doesn't sound unreasonable.
• chairsky

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  6 years ago

  @JimOsterberg, thanks for your advice. Normally, I give her 150 per half hour or 250 for whole hour in VIP. She mentioned that she would like to have the part the club takes if we meet outside. She is 30+, not young anymore, but she has a fit body and I like it. I'm planning to try $500 for overnight. I'm also thinking about dating before our OTC session, having dinner and movie before.
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  Agreed Max. (I knew someday I'd learn to regret tattooing "ATM" on my forehead!)
• JimOsterberg

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  6 years ago

  Sounds good Chairsky. My last bit of advice -- try the short game first. Do a session for smaller $$ and keep to an exotic interlude in the hotel room. If that works out, try the fancy stuff and/or overnight. If the first session is awkward, the more elaborate ones will be a nightmare. Otherwise, you can ratchet it up and have fun with a more date-like experience.
• chairsky

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  6 years ago

  @JimOsterberg, thanks a lot. Probably I will start with one hour session after dinner and movie with her. Right, exotic and fancy atmosphere is what I want to try with her in a more slow and private area. If both of us are enjoying our time, I can go longer or overtime for next OTC.
• Subraman

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  6 years ago

  max_starr-->"Just ask her what she wants....I have been charged less for OTC by most because they like me...I am not a hassle...i am generous....and they don't have to tip the house and every damn other person...I've typically paid $200 - $300 for a couple hour otc date...and that is well worth it for me" Max, up until a few years ago I was holding the line at $200-$250, but no do-able anymore, the cost of living finally caught up to OTC :) On the other hand, I'm not sure I've ever had an OTC that lasted only 2 hours... That's about the minimum time for pre-festivity lubrication, before we get to the hotel. Yes, I'm a broken record, but the fact that it's an all-inclusive price for however long she stays, is what makes it such a great value (at least for those of us who like socializing with our strippers; I know for some of you guys, being with a stripper for 6 hours straight is a nightmare lol) One difference in style I have, max, is that I NEVER ask the girl what her price is, the girls here won't blink at starting with $600-$800 (this is SF, after all), and I just find that for me, psychologically, it's pretty tough to counter with $250. Instead, I always name my price -- and my price is always $250 -- which gives me a little room to let her argue me up. I just 1. like being in control and naming my price first, and 2. hate being quoted some outrageous number when I let her quote first. Anyway, just a style thing, do whatever works for you. But I'd counsel OP, don't ask her her price first, figure out what you'd pay and drop it by at least $50 so she can negotiate you up.
• chairsky

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  6 years ago

  @Subraman, thanks buddy, I'm also thinking about giving her $250 for a couple of hours companion.
• flagooner

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  6 years ago

  Okay I'm confused. OP writes " I'm planning to try $500 for overnight. I'm also thinking about dating before our OTC session, having dinner and movie before." Why don't you just fuck the girl you take out to dinner and a movie instead, or is she a heifer? Then you wouldn't have to worry about how much the prostitute charges.
• BN1ce

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  6 years ago

  Why would you make her sit through a whole movie with you ? Is there something on your list you’re dying to see but don’t wanna go alone ?
• Subraman

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  6 years ago

  I definitely don't get the movie thing either ... if it was arrangement and we'd already met a bunch of times, I can see it. But OTC, it's a non-stop party until we hit the hotel to fuck it off. That said, chairsky should go with whatever experience satisfies him. But even if you do want to take her to a movie, since it's your first time OTC, maybe consider saving that for down the line, and keep things a little more fast-paced and fun on the very first meeting. If you want to make it feel more like a real date for whatever reason, instead of the movies, spoil her with a really good restaurant
• rogertex

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  6 years ago

  Chairsky - welcome to OTC world ! Good advice here and you have a good plan too (movie, dinner, being flexible) Since you club in Austin, Dallas area - 99% it will be safe and fun. From your posts I recall you like white dancers and I like latina latina latina. To each its own! I'll share my experience on the spending part, because you are right - you want to enjoy this adventure often and be able to afford it - while not shortchanging your love interest. Might I add - this article is the bible of OTC (authored by subraman): [view link] In Austin $300 is a good price for couple of hours of OTC fun with a dancer. You will have overhead above that - dinner, drinks, hotel, incidentals, etc. Every dancer is hoping for $10,000 for an evening (and, I hope to win lottery too - even the smaller one). Don't be deterred by quotes and never argue value with a dancer (& she is already worth a million bucks since you want OTC with her) - just be polite and firm with your own affordability. 300-Net is a number many dancers target from a shift - leading to golden threshold of $4K per month working 3 shifts per week. (This is in Austin, San Antonio. Admitted this threshold could be $8K in Vegas, LA and $12K in NYC). So $300 from an evening with a safe, likeable, fun guy - performing light duties - is agreeable. Admitted these are 20-24 year olds that are looking for supplemental income in a fun environment - but the mature dancers also cheerfully accept that. If a dancer does not like the price, thank her and move on. I tip extra if my OTC event featured a special act - like light oil wrestling or massage or sleep over. I have seen some dancers quote $100, $150, $200 for some type of OTC - perhaps out of desperation. I don't want to have fun with someone that is hurting for money. Since I like OTC with variety of dancers - a few learnings: 1. No deep emotional attachment. We are FWB. I now accept no service for free - and yet don't make it "transactional" (takes the fun out). 2. Generally express my liking for multiple women to my OTC dancer. Never say poorly about other dancers unless we are talking about a ROB. I don't share OTC details with other dancers - but accept other OTC recommendations from dancers (that is, their friends) 3. If I want something specific, always discuss ITC first - even at the expense of calling off OTC. Vagueness leads to missed expectations. That said - quite a few times I have told a dancer "I don't know what I want OTC - just wanna hang out with you - and roll with the flow". Mentally got ready for nothing more than arm candy. About one third of the times I got arm-candy. And blue balls. 4. If a dancer wants to stop OTC, I still see her ITC. No hard feelings, but big spending reserved only for OTC dancers and/or prospects. 5. Generally screen out dancers who do heavy drugs (pot is ok) or seem a bit mental. My preference is health focused and career focused dancers. Prefer dancers with kids - they seem grounded and more sexy. 6. I have seen some dancers quote $100, $150, $200 for some type of OTC - perhaps out of desperation. I don't want to have fun with someone that is hurting for money. 7. At first I would screen out dancers with boy friends or fuck buddies. Generally out of safety and to avoid drama. Now getting comfortable - there exists this concept of "open relationship".
• abqspencer

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  6 years ago

  Rogertex, excellent information! Thx
• rickdugan

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  6 years ago

  In Austin TX $250 should get it done for an hour of fun with a girl 30+ years old. But don't be shy to ask her what she needs and then counter if she comes in too high. Tbh I think you are over-complicating things with trying to do an overnight with her on the first outing. First, she may have obligations that make it hard for her to get away for a whole night, which could jam up your attempts to get her in bed. Second, she may be uncomfortable doing an all nighter with a guy she doesn't really know much about. If your goal is to pop your OTC cherry and get her in bed, then maybe you should keep it simple for the first meetup. If you want to grab a couple of drinks with her then fine, she may appreciate the alcohol too, but beyond that I would save the elaborate stuff for future meetups. As far as security concerns, don't overthink it. If she's been at the club for a while and she is that old, there is nothing to be worried about as she doesn't want problems any more than you do. The girls you usually have to worry about are the very young ones with little time ITC and no real roots in the area. Just book the room yourself and pay her after the deed is done and you should be fine.
• flagooner

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  6 years ago

  Just buy her a ring.
• Ch3ll

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  6 years ago

  @chairsky I'd just ask what she expects as far as pricing. It's possible that she may come in under what you expected and/or you guys just negotiate a reasonable price. In my experience I've often negotiated first OTC not so much to my liking, but knowing subsequent OTCs are lower depending on her circumstances. I've only clubbed in TX once and only at one club with no OTC. I can only imagine based on the norm floor dance prices there and VIP OTC is probably $300 plus. But just guessing with no sure experience OTC there. As far as safety I wouldn't worry too much but be cautious. I've been over a couple stripper's house/apartment and spent the night. Also, have picked them up and drove to the hotel or here and there. If the hotel scene is your main concern, landmark for the OTC and she has a car, I'd just meet her in the lobby and go from there. Also, check in to a nicer hotel, possibly one that requires a key card to move the elevator. I'd also recommend being alert while she changes if she does or if she has to go back to her car be super alert. I've never had one go back to the car, but for as long as one may take in the bathroom, you'd be wondering what the hell is she doing!
• AmeliaSmith

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  6 years ago

  My perspective and this is just an opinion (probably the least favorable) if I have a customer that spends at least $300 every time that I see him, after fees and tip outs, I am going home with $250 at least. This number doesn't include money I could have made throughout the night. This is without FS. If I can take home at least $250 without any sexual activities, why would I accept $300? Yes, we have some great experiences but you have already set the bar high. Some of y'all talk about $150 FS extras so I would ask for at least $400. IME as an escort, GFE which is what you are probably looking is draining but it is what I prefer. While I would only charge $200 for an hour of my time, I actually would charge $400 for about 4 hours of us together from start to finish, give or take another hour depending on our chemistry.
• georgmicrodong

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  6 years ago

  @Subraman: “but I'd be surprised if anyone was getting $150/hr strippers” This is one of the reasons I like flyover country. The 150-200 range has gotten me quite a bit of what you’re getting. I don’t usually like to go “out” with them; the *downside* of flyover country is that it’s a small town. But I’ve used every bit of the three hours the local no-tell offers for fifty five bucks for $150 and a bottle of moscato. Yucky stuff, but the girls love it. And I’ve gone up to $200 or 250 once she gets comfy enough to invite me to her place.
• san_jose_guy

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  6 years ago

  chairsky, so it sounds like this girl must be treating you well in the VIP Room. And you've already fucked her enough, so that probably she will be very pleased that you now want to see her outside, and she will be inclined to do whatever you ask. Don't listen to the people on this forum who tell you to treat her like a hooker. There should be no problem setting OTC up with her, just treat her as you would treat any other woman. I suspect that if you want longer sessions there should be no problem. And JimOsterberg and Shailynn, go fuck yourselves! [view link] SJG