Rater Rules Gone Wrong

FONDL: To not spend money or meet with some hustle would mean I didn't find what I go to strip clubs for. That's why I skip the clubs in the town where I live and drive an hour or more to find what I want. I imagine I would do the same if I lived in the DC area.

Chandler, I guess you've never spent much time in Washington, DC or northern Virginia clubs. There are 2 big advantages to clubs that don't allow laps - you spend a whole lot less and there's a lot less hustle. And in cities where there are both - clubs with private dances and those without - the girls are often better looking in the clubs that don't allow laps. It's nice to have the option.

FONDL: Although I don't go to any clubs that don't allow lapdances, I go to some where I never get a lapdance for various reasons. Usually, because I have more fun sitting with strippers or tipping at the stage. But I only enjoy it if there's still good contact and the girls are hot. If not, then I'd rather hang out at a regular bar, where factors like atmosphere and drink prices matter more to me.

Chandler, what do you and the rest of you LD fans do when you're in an area that doesn't allow LDs? Haven't you ever gone to a club just to watch girls dance on stage and sit and talk with them? And if you do, how do you choose which place to visit?

chandler: I've had a few times in my life when, faced with a plethora of options and knowing that there's no guarantee, on any given night, that the perfect girl will show up, I've therefore chosen a club on the basis of reports of "amenities" or "attitude." For example, I was in Houston and had had my fill of extra service at Treasures and related similar venues. The reviews made it clear that any of a number of other top-tier clubs would fill the bill, but that one in particular would have a nicer cigar bar. Since I smoke a pipe, I went to that other club, Michael's, and was pleased to find that the LOW number of women actually meant I was not surrounded by horny guys and so was happy to watch the game and eat from the buffet there. Later, when I visited other places that I had rejected because of the reviews, I found indeed that "lack of amenities" were accurately reported, and I was glad for my choice.

Then again, I soon enough was hankerin' for another service session at a place like Treasures. I don't really have much time for the "non extreme" clubs when I'm traveling.

I've never felt like going to a club because the reviews said the decor was nice, the bathrooms were clean and the drinks were cheap. And when they get around to adding that the girls and the dances were nothing special, that's the point when I usually stop reading.

In other words, I agree with Chili for the most part. The girls and their dances are all I really care about. Atmosphere, friendly staff and other details matter only inasmuch as they affect my interaction with strippers. Especially in detrimental way, which is not uncommon.

Chili Palmer says "The nice thing about this scale is that it removes everything from the rating equation except the reason you go to a club: to find a dancer with whom to lap." Except that's not the only reason I go to clubs and sometimes it's not even a main reason. It all depends on what I'm in the mood for. As I said before, we all have different likes and dislikes.

Which is why the main reason I look at ratings is to decide which reviews to read. When in a new city I'll read the reviews of all the higher rated clubs and then decide from the descriptions of the places which one or two I'm most likely to enjoy. Which is why I think reviews should describe not just the girls but what the place is like, including size, atmosphere and prices. Especially prices.

As founder says, "Don't believe anything you read on this site." So I don't pay much attention to the ratings. Above 5 is worth a visit if the reviews make it seem interesting. Below 5 is probably not worth a visit unless there's something interesting in a review. It's hard to use objective ratings for something as subjective as strip clubs. Everyone is looking for something different and everyone's expectations are different. For instance, living in the Chicago area would definitely lower one's expectations since the clubs there are so lame. A TUSCLer from Chicago might be more generous with the numerical ratings since he's not used to clubs with full bars and naked strippers giving full-contact lap dances.

I agree that there is fun in not knowing. However, assigning a grade to it is not my idea of fun.

Chandler: I have to admit, that although in THEORY I would like to apply a simple binary scale (yes or no) I actually apply something like a trinary, quarternary, or even quinternary scale. If any of those adjectives are actually words. :P

I think in practice I want to believe I'm trinary. Yes, no, and maybe so I gotta find out.

I think in reality I'm more likely quarternary or quinternary or sextuplet or whatever. Yes, no, and then maybe type A (I really like her tits or her X Y Z but there's a lot else to be disappointed about) and maybe type B (I really DON'T like her tits or her X Y Z but there'sd a lot else to be excited about) and maybe type C (I am totally up in the air about this chick) and maybe type D (I have no idea why I'm attracted to this chick, but I just have to admit to myself that I actually am, probably despite my better inclinations), etc.

Trying to reduce it to binary really eliminates a lot of the fun of the experience. It's the maybe girls that are the most fun, both the ones that end up as true yes girls (because, of course, a yes girl is GREAT) and also the ones that end up as true no girls (because of the thrill of the chase-down, and because of the experience of learning to reject her on the basis of something that feels "valid" or "right" and therefore reaffirms myself as a "manly man" type of dude).

Interesting where our minds will go.

BG

Dancers are binary: yes and no.

Exactly, Book Guy. I always say my rating scale has two grades: I'd do her or I wouldn't do her. It's the scale everybody uses to get through every day. Stay in bed or get up. Eat dessert or pass on it. Go to the strip club or don't. It's also the only scale that matters to dancers. Wanna dance or not?

However, I like Chili's scale, too. Four grades is about the most that can be meaningful. Scales of ten points or more, via fractions, wind up seeming arbitrary to anybody but the grader.

Here's my take on ratings: Nothing is relevant (not the club, ambience, drinks, bad DJs, dance hustle, parking, bathrooms, chairs, VIP rooms, etc.) except this: Do I want to lap any dancers in this club?

If the answer is no, then whatever else good about this club no longer matters; I don't pay up to a $20 cover charge and then $5 for 8 ounces of a watered down Coke so I can listen to loud music that I otherwise would never play on my Ipod.

Therefore, I rate the dancers on a 1-4 scale:

1: Wouldn't lap her even if she was offering a BBBJTC for free.

2: Has some feature that would get me to lap her (i.e, big boobs, is 6' tall, wearing naughty schoolgirl outfit, etc.) Usually, this is a dancer who is good for up to 2-4 laps, as the mileage isn;t enough to keep my continued interest.

3: Great looks, good attitude, good-to-excellent mileage. A CF will fall in this category. She doesn't have to get you off (every time), but she does have to have lap skills plus looks to keep you hard and wanting more. These girls are why you keep coming back to the club.

4: Flawless. Extremely rare (I don't believe in grade inflation). For me, pornstar Julia Ann was one of the few "4's" I used to lap with, back before Blondage when she was a cream wrestler at Angels in Long Beach and a dancer at Fritz's in Bellflower. 5'10" tall, model gorgeous, DD breasts, and good contact laps for the early 90s. That's a 4.

The nice thing about this scale is that it removes everything from the rating equation except the reason you go to a club: to find a dancer with whom to lap. If she lapworthy, she's at least a two; if she's not, regardless of anything else, she's a 1. It's that simple.

CP

Yeah, city-to-city comparisons are very poor. Patrons at the three clubs in Jackson, Mississippi, tend to rate them as 8, 7, and 6, respectively. But if those patrons had ever BEEN to a Houston club, they would instead rate the Jackson clubs as 4, 3, and 2, given the negative comparison with Houston's "true" 8s, 7s, and 6s. So you have to read with a grain of salt in mind ...

Minnow has the right approach. When I'm headed to a city I don't know, I use the ratings to get me in the ballpark. If there are 20 clubs in town, I find the four or five top rated, and read a dozen reviews on those. If a few clubs are getting 7s and 8s, and some others are getting 3s and 4s, then I probably won't like the 3s and 4s.

In cities where I know the clubs, I completely ignore the numbers; I just scan reviews to see if anything has changed since my last visit.

Comparing clubs across cities is very difficult using the ratings. How do I rate a great club in a city that doesn't allow liquor or nude LDs? How do I compare that to a so-so club with booze and bare asses in my lap? Your evaluation weighting of the importance of these things would probably differ from mine. Hell, mine differ from day to day. Somedays, I want to drink even if it means air dances. Other days, I'll wait on the booze til after the club.

Minnow:

Thanks for the advice. I have been surprised traveling to Detroit and thought that the Landing Strip and the PlayHouse would be much larger and have a wider selection of talent from which to choose, based on ratings.

I have found the Memphis Clubs to be as described. Bring money. You will get as much as you are willing to pay.

I would love to see reviews from clubs that have improved recently due to change in management, liquor ordinances, etc. It may be a HOT LIST of Good Finds/ Best Buy/ Value Choice, etc. I would not like to overlook a smaller venue in a new town in favor of the large Show Bars or MegaClubs.

DS- When going to new town, I look for the top rated 3-4 clubs relative to other clubs, then read between the lines. Even top 40 clubs get sub 3 ratings- bias certainly comes into play. Some people love crowds, some want more privacy & intimacy. Some like large breasts, some smaller, more natural. etc,etc,etc.

DS- When going to new town, I look for the top rated 3-4 clubs relative to other clubs, then read between the lines. Even top 40 clubs get sub 3 ratings- bias certainly comes into play. Some people love crowds, some want more privacy & intimacy. Some like large breasts, some smaller, more natural. etc,etc,etc.

Makes excellent sense, but is a lot of work for Founder and / or any other webmaster-for-hire.

...not to mention a lot of extra work for reviewers.

Frankly, I'm afraid it would be a bad change. For one thing, many clubs don't even have a VIP, lap dances, waitresses or drinks to price. And who wants decor and a bunch of other peripheral categories to receive equal weight with lap dances in the overall score?

I think it's better to let each reviewer skew the club rating whatever way they want, and let it all average out in the long run. Individual ratings are always going to be puzzling. The fact is there really isn't any problem with the current system that needs to be fixed. If you just look at the average ratings, it's remarkable how accurate they often turn out to be. The only problem is that totally subjective opinions can never be quantified in a predictable way that makes everybody happy. Better to keep it simple than try to overthink it.

Other than that, I guess it makes fine sense. Keep 'em coming!

Would it make sense for the TUSCL web host to create a "rating form" that has a space for our standard text feedback, but also includes rating "buttons" for various topics like atmosphere, VIP, drink price, friendliness, laps, waitresses, etc. You should still have a 1-9 scale...but the form could average all the topics giving a true flavor of the club without skewwing the total club.

Make sense?

I actually don't pay too much attention to the numeric rating. I much rather like looking at the content that is below the rating as to why the person rated the location a particular way. If the person isn't too ellaborating on why their rating applies, I typically ignore the rating. But, if the rating is low or odd and the description reflects well then I look at the posting whole and am better to make a decision. I also like to keep track of other clubs that someone has gone to when looking at a rating. For instance if there is someone who actively participates in the discussion board and they have rated a club a certain way, then I am more likely going to pay closer attention to that rating. That way I am not allowing someone who has less knowledge about clubs, or actively interested in the lifestyle, bias a clubs rating.

I don't know if 1 or 2 new dancers can help improve a club a lot, but when a club loses 1 or 2 old dancers that used to be favorites, like at my favorite club a few months ago, it can certainly drag it down. One new dancer with a negative attitude can certainly drag it down. The problem, as I see it, is if you got a club that is a dump, it takes a lot more dancers to make it worthwhile than it took dancers that made it a dump.

What I mean when I say thumbs up or thumbs down is whether or not a club seems like one I would like. To tell if it is, I read the reviews. I look at the ratings only to help narrow down which clubs to read up on.

What would it mean for a club to be three times better than a lousy club? Is that like a restaurant where they make up for serving you bad food by offering you more of it?

Other things that might matter is if the dancers tend to stick to the regulars and I happen to be posting as a regular and enjoy a club while some guy off the street might get lucky just to get a dancers attention, unless he's dropping big bucks or has other things going for him/her. I might enjoy a few dancers who always offer two for one specials at a set price while the guy off the street might get charged higher for one dance than I paid for two or 3 lap dances. Some visits may be fun while others can be dull at times. There are lots of variables which may not even be mentioned in the club review.

I don't usually post if I consider myself a regular or if I seem to be getting special attention but I wouldn't be surprised if I was in some cases.

I've had a great time just watching the girls get nude on stage in some clubs and never got a dance and have rated a club well while I noticed some people sit alone at the tables watching from a distance. I wouldn't enjoy my visit from that far away. If there was a separate review rating for dances, I might rate those a lot differently than the club review since I don't get dances in every club I visit. I think the ratings are more like guidelines and you have to read the reviews to see if it's your kind of club. I guess I'm thinking of a pirate movie saying the ratings are more like guidelines.

I've given clubs a thumbs down (5 or below) based on decor, layout, and general cleanliness. I have been to clubs that I rated highly before (7 or above) and thought to myself I should ammend my rating to point out that it was a "5" on a different night.

So many variables. Clubs can have a great vibe one night, and a somber one on another. The girls on the shift when when you visit can be not so attractive; or the two really attractive ones on that shift clocked in sick or are on vacation! Or all th ehotties show up on a partiular night to make up for sick days, make moeny for vacation amd/or presents...

I look at the concensus rating and for the ratings that review what I find important in a night out. Does the reviewer like to chat with the ladies, or on the other extreme, takes any offer to dance as a hustle rather than an invitation to flirt? Extras or no exras? Loud DJ or too loud DJ? Other clientele scared the hell out of you, or ou felt right at home?

The numbering system is useless and expecting a 9 to be 3 times better than a 3 will usually bring disappointment. When I travel I will look for consistent written reviews before trying a club. At home, I find the posted ratings don't have much to do with what I will find on any given night. One of my favorite places is a "local bar" type of club that ranks a solid 3 in the numbering scale and gets fairly lousy reviews. I have a great time whenever I visit.

Ideally, we'd be able to rate GIRLS and private DANCES rather than clubs, considering that most of our comments center on how much we enjoyed a given service-providing song or two. So, rating a "club" should include things that might or might not increase the numerical score -- DJ loudness, smokiness, nice chairs, whether or not your car is safe in the parking lot -- but the general ratings here tend to focus on the female-to-male interaction instead.

There are places on the internet where rating a girl, and her services in particular, are possible (cf. Redbook in San Francisco, esp. regarding Mitchells' O'Farrell B. T.) but mostly, the girls move on, cycle 'round, change clubs, disappear, reappear so fast, that an internet resource won't be useful.

I agree with FONDL. The only rating that matters is thumbs up or down.

Denny, the problem with numerical ratings is that we all like different things. I might hate a club that you love and vice versa. Read the descriptions to find clubs that sound like places that you would like and ignore the ratings.

Denny: I don't think a higher rating indicates a large club. Many highly rated clubs are quite small. The Playhouse and Landing Strip used to always have a lot of strippers working, despite being on the small side in terms of floor space. However, both clubs have been struggling lately - the Playhouse due to a raid last May and the Landing Strip due to stupid management in recent years. And with the Detroit economy in the dumps, there seems to be only enough loose cash around to support one airport club, that being the Flight Club.

I personally don't think a lot of the ratings take price into sufficient consideration. Say for example there are two clubs to choose from: club A has uniformly gorgeous girls, fancy decor, high mileage and super high prices; club B is a neighborhood bar with moderately attractive and friendly girls, lower mileage and low prices. If you don't mind spending $500 you can have a better time at club A, but if you only have $100 to spend $100 club B will probably be more fun. So how do their ratings compare? Personally I rate B higher than A because I'm never willing to spend $500. But I think most reviewers are the other way around.

I think the problem with having separate buttons for atmosphere, waitresses, etc. is that too much of what happens in any club is interrelated to everything else. Also, any club can have a bad night and you could end up choosing it, which is more luck than anything. It's hard to make a good review of a club with only one dancer, for instance. You can guess it's good, but you don't really know, because you had the dumb luck to go the one night they only had one dancer.

Agreed on all counts. I would like, what someone else with regional club reviews (Z-Bone? Two Sheds? can't remember) has sometimes done in his reviews, which is the elusive "asterisk" ... a special bullet by a club name, with no reference anywhere to indicate at all what the bullet means. Only those with true membership and trust are told the truth about what a red, green, blue, purple or brown bullet, star, cross, check-mark, or lightning bolt means. That's some info I could do with.