The "bases"

Minnow: So, in your golf terminology, is a ball washer a good thing? Make sure you always wear a bag... you can never know where you could pick up divots!

Going back to the "bases": I rather like substituting golf terms for baseball terms, with "hole in one" being ultimate objective, birdies & eagles OK, avoid bogies & sandtraps.

Chitown: maybe the issue isn't, the school involved, as much as the individual. I was "bacdwards" as DougS describes himself, too. An only child, and a calendar-year younger than 99% of my classmates (birthday in January), and an EXTREMELY late developer relative to my chronological age, etc. All the excuses. I had this Prince Charming thing, that I was "supposed" to be in love and she "wouldn't want me" to somehow besmirch our interaction by the implication of sex. I believed all that crud about how a girl doesn't want a guy to go fast, and doesn't want a guy who she doesn't have a "real" relationship with, etc. I hung on to those fantasies well into my graduate school years.

Very painful. One girl in particular I've reported about on this board, before. I don't really "hold a candle" for her, so it isn't that I'm emotionally still attached, but the story sums it all up and, to boot, covers a full three-year period that could have been my most productive lay-time in my life. I met her at the beginning of my sophomore year in college, and pined after her for the remaining three years of my school daze. I kept thinking I was her knight in shining armor, she kept me on the string, I "knew" that we would be "right for one another" while she just fucked other guys. I didn't even really think she wasn't still a virgin, it just hadn't occurred to me. Now, I think of her and say, "What a cunt, for misleading me so much," but at the time it was all, "I love her so." Sad but true. Some people are sensitive and trusting. I'm also a good mark for an office bully, by the way. Until I figure it out. I'm always very good at standing up for myself and really being strong about it, but only AFTER someone has pointed out to me that I'm miserable and being mistreated. I don't even ... notice ... somehow. Weird.

Now I just assume, if she's not fucking me then she's fucking someone else, and I stop trying to date her. That is, if I ever DO get a date in the first place ... :(

Chitown: maybe the issue isn't, the school involved, as much as the individual. I was "bacdwards" as DougS describes himself, too. An only child, and a calendar-year younger than 99% of my classmates (birthday in January), and an EXTREMELY late developer relative to my chronological age, etc. All the excuses. I had this Prince Charming thing, that I was "supposed" to be in love and she "wouldn't want me" to somehow besmirch our interaction by the implication of sex. I believed all that crud about how a girl doesn't want a guy to go fast, and doesn't want a guy who she doesn't have a "real" relationship with, etc. I hung on to those fantasies well into my graduate school years.

Very painful. One girl in particular I've reported about on this board, before. I don't really "hold a candle" for her, so it isn't that I'm emotionally still attached, but the story sums it all up and, to boot, covers a full three-year period that could have been my most productive lay-time in my life. I met her at the beginning of my sophomore year in college, and pined after her for the remaining three years of my school daze. I kept thinking I was her knight in shining armor, she kept me on the string, I "knew" that we would be "right for one another" while she just fucked other guys. I didn't even really think she wasn't still a virgin, it just hadn't occurred to me. Now, I think of her and say, "What a cunt, for misleading me so much," but at the time it was all, "I love her so." Sad but true. Some people are sensitive and trusting. I'm also a good mark for an office bully, by the way. Until I figure it out. I'm always very good at standing up for myself and really being strong about it, but only AFTER someone has pointed out to me that I'm miserable and being mistreated. I don't even ... notice ... somehow. Weird.

Now I just assume, if she's not fucking me then she's fucking someone else, and I stop trying to date her. That is, if I ever DO get a date in the first place ... :(

Weighing in on this topic, I graduated in '79... I'm the old one in our group... crap!

Anyhow, for the most part, it must be more related to the HS attended, rather than the "times" that determined the amount of activity of a sexual nature. For me, it was probably even more so related to my shyness.

I know there was quite a bit going on... even as early as 8th and 9th grade. Several girls, including a cheerleader that I always thought was way WAY hot, ended up "with child".

Being an only child, and so in awe of the hot girls, I was on the backward side, and thus didn't get in on those experiences. Also, the type of girls that I liked influenced the amount of activity.

I'd had a crush on one particular girl that started around 4th grade and ended in 9th grade I belive, since I was too shy, to this day, I've never talked to her, and obviously never got anywhere with her, or any other girl during that period of time. Next came another crush or two in 9th grade, with similar results.

10th grade was a big year and the beginning of dating. My first "experience" was a a lot of heavy petting and a HJ from someone I wasn't even interested in... later she offered me the entire menu, but again, shyness kicked in and I passed on any further contact with her. Yep, she was a slut, but was kind'a cute, too. In fact the night of the HJ, she also provided the same service for one of my friends (we were all in the back of a van to/from a concert). Looking back on her, the HJ(s), and what she offered, I've kicked myself many times for not pursuing. What the hell was wrong with me?!

Book Guy, I graduated from high school in 1980, and I must have gone to a much more wild school than you did. All couples going steady were assumed to be having sex. There were several student/teacher couples, including the guy in my class who moved in with the cheerleading coach the day after graduation (25 years later, they are happily married.) There was news when certain girls were gone from school for a couple of days because they were having abortions. And prom was considered a time for all people to have sex (I lost my virginity the night of my year-older girlfriend's senior prom).

One of my funniest memories from high school is of one of my friends running down a crowded hall at passing time yelling, at the top of his lungs, "She had it! She had it", referring to his girlfriend and her monthly visitor. I also remember a couple of high school friends signing away paternal rights following situations that didn't work out so well, and led to adoptions.
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There must have been a resurgence of puritanism after I graduated from high school. I'm glad I missed it.

I graduated from High School in 1983, and I think that if there was sex going on, it was mostly under the covers. Har har.

No, seriously, I do believe some girls would allow sexual access at my school, but I also believe that they were very few, and that they required some kind of "going steady" commitment from the guy. In fact, I think there were a lot of "going steady" couples who were NOT sexually involved; probably it was mostly about who you heavy-petted with the most.

Now, it's my impression, that blowjobs are regularly offered for guys that the girl isn't even dating. It's kind of a "currency" readily exchanged throughout the shool, especially at the trashy inner-city places; the girls want to show off who is good at it and kind of "compete," and of course the guys both (a) enjoy getting it and (b) want to one-up one another about whose girl blows whom, etc.

In addition to the BJ situation above, I think there is ALSO more sexual activity of the coitus kind, than what I reported about my own High School classmates. I certainly wasn't sexually active in HS. Although I dated (generally younger girls -- one of whom, I am proud to report, went on to become Homecoming Queen!) I didn't ever get past making out, lip-to-lip. Once I accidentally brushed a girl's breasts and was appalled at myself. I didn't lose my virginity (as in, coitus) until after Undergrad and Master's degrees were well in hand. :( But that's a different story.

Nice girls may not have done those things still when I was in school. One reason I didn't go out with nice girls.

FONDL, I'm not going to argue with you, esp. since are about 15 years older than I am, and have personal memories about a period of time that I've just heard/read about...HOWEVER, from time immemorial, up until Roe v. Wade, there was a brisk trade in this country in the adoption of offspring who were produced by high school girls "from good families" who "got in trouble." Roe v. Wade changed that situation to what it was when I was in high school...as my mother told me in those days..."Rich girls have abortions; poor girls have babies." The point is, someone had to be screwing, to produce all those American-born foundlings who were adopted by infertile American couples.

Even looking at my own family tree for the past couple of hundred years, I see a remarkable phenomenon of "prematurity" among first born children. What's up with that....I've never read about stars appearing over the roofs of farmhouses across the upper Midwest.

Chandler, my experience was the same as yours...there were well-off "good" girls who didn't screw in h.s....and the white trash "bad" girls, from my kind of people, who did. I think that's why I still have a great attraction to girls who seem a little (or a lot) "trashy" and "nasty."

Chitown: Actually, some of the sluttiest girls I knew came from the richest families. Their daddy could afford the "mistakes" of their wild years. I still had an attraction for white trash bad girls, too, of course.

Indeed you are right, Chandler...there were rich girls who were fucking in high school---they just weren't fucking me. As I recall, most of them in high school went out with guys in college who at the time seemed very sophisticated, worldly, etc. When I was 20 and a junior in college, I realized I was just as goofy as those college men had been, and I thought the idea of college guys going after high school girls (usually as "targets of opportunity") was kind of pathetic. In fact, on the campus of my Major Big Ten State University, there was a specific hangout that was known for girls from the local high schools who could be picked up by undergraduate men. It sounded fraught with danger, esp. when one of the "prestige" fraternity houses got shut down for having parties where underaged girls from town got screwed.

And, Chandler, you also speak truthfully when you say that DFK is the new "home run." That is certainly the case with dancers. It is nothing for a dancer to rub your dick through your pants, even to the point of climax, or to kiss your dick through your pants. And, in a market of any size, you can find a place where at least one dancer (usually the one that all the other girls "hate") will give you a HJ, BJ, or even FS. But DFK* is indeed the "last frontier." As I said several months ago in a different thread, the dancer's main object during a dance is to avoid coming into contact with the customer's jizz, and to avoid real intimacy--which, in turn, means avoiding DFK at all costs.

I get DFK from a dancer about every 12-18 months. It usually leaves me confused and dizzy for at least a couple of days.

*DFK, in this contact, only included FK with a dancer that you would freely choose to kiss outside the strip club. Kissing a dancer who is ugly, old, or emotionally demented, or any of those three, does not count.

Just to add to my previous post, while I was watching football yeasterday a commercial came on for some silly sitcom or other where this guy kissed a girl and then announced that he had just gotten to first base. Which reminded me that you didn't need to indulge in DFK for kissing to be consdered first base because, like BJ's, there was no DFK in those days. Nice girls didn't do that.

BookGuy: Believe me, that was just circumstantial luck on my part. From time time I had my first DFK at 13, first HJ at 15, first BJ later that year, and finally lost my virginity at my girlfriend's senior prom during my next year of high school, every "next step" I took was based solely on the initiative of my female partner. I was so scared of girls that, if it had been up to me, my only romantic partner would be Mr. Hefner's latest discovery.

However, once I found I had some competence at each level of performance, I did pick up some confidence....

I'm from the era when the "bases" terminology was used in high school. And BJs didn't fit in any category because there weren't any BJs. Unless you picked up at street whore and then the terminology didn't apply anyway, it only applied to dating. BJs just weren't a part of dating. Ever. Nice girls didn't do that.

And I agree that the bases were: 1st - passionate kissing, 2nd - hands playing with upper body parts under clothes, 3rd - hands playing with lower body parts under clothes, HR - all the way (which was consistent terminology.) And unless you were going steady you almost never got past 2nd base. Nice girls didn't do that stuff. High school was very different in those days.

I would have to say that having a blowjob is more like stealing a home run.... didn't have to send the ball out of the park to have the crowd cheering ;)

YOU were sheltered? I didn't receive a blowjob -- or any form of genital contact from anyone other than myself -- until after I had my Master's degree. Yeesh! :(

Yes, the concept of "Bases" was known when I was in high school in the late 70s, but was considered somewhat quaint.

I don't know where blow jobs came in. They were routinely accepted by the time I started dating, but weren't really talked about. I led a little bit of a sheltered life, but it is true that thet first time I knew what a blow job was (junior year of high school), I was getting one.

French kissing is the new home run.

Yeah, and evidently kids these days think of blowjobs as "not sexual." So, if a dude is at the right high school, any ol' girl will give him a blowjob to "prove" she isn't a prude. Or at least, that's how the shock-media is reporting it.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me ... :)

Well, maybe it is just a symptom of the patriacal society I grew up in but any time she touched your penis with any part of her body (hand, mouth, vagina) it was a home run. The rest of the bases were how far she let you get (kissing, breasts, pussy).

Book Guy: I was just generally agreeing with others' definitions. Another way they were described was kissing, petting, heavy petting & sex. I don't know about explicitly detailed, hair-splitting rules. It wasn't clear where oral sex belonged, probably because the generations that talked "bases" weren't getting many blow jobs or eating much pussy. The year I started high school, the film 'Deep Throat' was in the news. Who cares what base that's on?

I agree with Chandler's definition of the bases:

1. kiss (with tongue)
2. upper body touch (no clothes above the waist)
3. lower body touch (though no direct genital-to-genital contact)
4. genital-to-genital contact

This means that a blowjob is third-base material. Maybe some people would consider it closer to "stealing second" or something.

Sometimes I'm very frustrated by the desperately low levels of service that men get excited about, in the reviews on TUSCL. For example, a "full on direct hand-job" in one review, it turns out, was the description the reviewer used for the dancer grabbing his crotch THROUGH his jeans, without removing or opening them. His willie stayed inside his clothes, her hand stayed outside, no waistband or zipper was ever breached by either, but this counts somehow as a "handjob"? No no no ...

I also understood them the way Daily Grind and Chitown say. However, nobody I knew growing up talked in those terms unless ironically. "Bases" were a relic of the Happy Days generation.

Chitown - those were the 4 bases as I remember them.
Clifbar - most of us are old enough to have enjoyed life and remember the good things. Like trying to get past 1st base and bragging to all your buddies.

DG: My pack was a litle different. It was find em, feel em, fuck em and then forget em. However, I don't think any of us got passed the first "F"...

In the group I hung around with as a teenager, the taxonomy was as follows:

1st base: Kissing (French)
2nd base: Fondling the breasts (unclothed)
3rd base: Finger fucking
Home Run: Fucking

so, it was sort of a geographic progression, in the southward downtown.

Kissing, fondling over clothes, fondling under clothes, and oral/intercourse climax.

Or, as I learned in Cub Scouts; French, Feel, Finger, Fuck.


YMMV,
DG

Chitown, you are obviously correct that there were girls screwing in high school in my youth. But they usually fell into one of two groups: either they were going steady (which was probably a lot more common then than it is now and probably accounted for most of the pregnancies to which you refer) or they were the trashy girls, who were actually a fairly small minority (at least in my high school.) My remarks about home runs weren't intended to cover either of these two situations, I was mainly referring to typical casual dating.

But even among the girls who were going steady, BJs and DFK were pretty rare. At least that's my impression - no one really knows because that stuff wasn't talked about the way it is now. Many of my friends went steady (as did I) but I never once heard any guy talk about what they did or didn't do with their GF, even after they broke up. Any guy who did that would have found it very difficult to get a date. But I grew up in a small town in a rural area, with kids from mostly middle income families - high schools in or near cities or schools with a lot of rich or poor kids may have been quite different.

Our nation's sexual mores changed very dramatically during the Viet Nam war - high school was a very different experience depending on whether you went before or during/after that war. (A funny aside - I've always gotten a kick out of news coverage of all the anti-war protests. All the guys I knew who joined those protests only did so to get laid. They didn't care about the war at all, the protests were just an excuse to experiment with sex and drugs and raise hell. I'm sure not all the protestors were like that, but an awful lot of them were.)