Hot Girl w/ the "Bad Boy" or Jerk

I've been asking myself this question since junior high school. The only answer that makes any sense to me comes from discussing exactly this issue with my ATF, and I think the answer goes way back in our early evolution as cave men.

All guys have a masculine and feminine side, as do all girls. Girls are most strongly attracted to the guys who are the most masculine, which means that they don't exhibit much in the way of feminine traits, eg. caring, sensitivity, etc. And then they bitch to their nice guy friends that the jerk they're with isn't caring, sensitive, etc. But they aren't attracted to that type, which I think is ingrained instinct. Why do they all want tall guys? Same thing, I think it's a basic instinct carried over from the days when the biggest and strongest were the best protectors and providers.

Nice girls don't do it for me (any more) either. I've dated too many of them, to know what a weak foundation their character is based on -- nothing but waiting for the man to do something for them, and, if they DO choose anything pro-active about life, it will be, going out there in their best duds with their tits bobbling, in order to control a man so that he will do something for them.

But that doesn't mean I like nasty girls. I just like the SERVICES that are supposedly nasty, which are available from nasty girls and aren't from nice girls.

>The bottom line is that I can't be too critical of the women with those tastes, because as I've gotten older, I've developed increasing tastes for "bad" girls.<

Exactly! I've always had this mysterious attraction to hot "bad girl" types who are fun to be with but can't hold a regular job. Nice girls just don't do it for me. It must be due to my low self esteem.

I think that there might also be something of a "mothering" instinct and desire to save the man that might be at work here.

I think that BookGuy is on to something with his explanation about women tending to decisive types. I also think that Chandler is right about the dangerous type of excitement that can be involved with "bad" boys.

The bottom line is that I can't be too critical of the women with those tastes, because as I've gotten older, I've developed increasing tastes for "bad" girls. I think that's why I hang in strip clubs so much.

I've had a few strippers call me bad but I don't know what they meant by that. I think it's all in their head. Sometimes it seems like strippers will make you into whatever they want you to be if you don't spoil the picture they have in their head. I remember one stripper thought I was into some profession (forgot what it was) and I spoiled it by telling her the truth. She seemed a little bit more interested in me before I ruined her picture. I guess the fantasy aspect doesn't all belong to the customers in the strip clubs.

Since my wife is a former dancer for 10 years I have met most of her friends who were married or attatched and 90 percent of the guys were either moochers or scumbags who could not hold a job ( present company excluded ).

Still to this day I don't know why they gravitated towards them.

Women don't want to have to lead. Most men out there (not necessarily you, DougS, but you may be misinterpreted in this manner anyway) who CLAIM to be "the sensitive type" are actually "the indecisive, submissive, follower type."

Doug: I don't know if you've noticed, but strippers tend to flout the social norms. Running with a nice guy wouldn't exactly fit in with that. They might also feel that bad boys are more fun and more honest.

I think the low self esteem answer is wildly exaggerated. Yes, it exists for women and men, hot or not. However, it's usually a rationalization for guys who can't figure out why beautiful women would ever want to be with men who aren't like them.

Doug, this is the unsolvable puzzle that has defined my entire life. If you want to delve deeper into this issue, I advise you to purchase "Nice Guys Don't Get Laid," the Greatest Novel Ever Written (actually a fairly decent and fairly funny humor book) by Marcus Pierce Meleton, Jr. It goes once more unto the breach to figure out why, but it reaches some of the same conclusions that you guys have here.

I'll add another reason: Misery loves company. But that doesn't help a nice guy like me. That's why I go to strip clubs: It's the only way I get female interaction. Sadly, I still don't get laid. Yet by stripclubbing, do I in fact become a jerk? (I will say that I don't know if strippers seek out the jerk while working. I don't think they're attuned to the "assholiness" of a guy. What matters is how much money a customer is going to spend on them.)

Talking about nice guys don't get laid, I'm still wondering at my last job when word spread around the entire place I was working at with around 200 employees that I was going to strip clubs. All of a sudden, one girl I didn't know stopped me and asked me what I thought about her becoming a stripper and if I thought it might be good for her. I guess I could have had her audition for me if I had thought about it at the time. Then another girl got frisky with me one day. A short time later she propositioned me in front of her entire department asking to do a one night stand with me. nothing but sex all night long. I started thinking ok, why are a number of the girls acting like this towards me now?

Read www.fastseduction.com. All of it. Then read everything it links to. The Meleton book is already mentioned in this thread. R. Don Steele is a bit weaker, I think. Much of the writings by David Deida, though derivative of a cult leader's hooey, are actually quite incisive on the point of "masculine essence" and "feminine essence." Helpful if you're stuck in the "too nice to get laid" conundrum.

Then go back to all your childhood training, acculturation, school studies, especially literature and history classes, and you'll eventually realize, that the old lessons have been upside down all along. While stories seemed to say that girls want sensitive men, the same stories have also been saying that girls want men to bring masculinity into their lives. The supposed bi-polar opposition of "nice" versus "jerk" is nearly always subsumed into the same human. Often, the conversation gets confused somewhere around the definition of the word "jerk" (women don't want jerks or assholes; they DO respond positively to decisive, aggressive, arrogant men, whether or not they want them, even to the point of fucking them).

The last point I'd make, is that quite often, a woman wants one thing and fucks another. Perhaps in ORDER to change the jerk into "her" nice guy, she gives access to pussy. Or perhaps because she knows he's not "husband material," she is more comfortable fucking around with the jerk while making the nice guy "wait" to "prove his love."

I don't believe that there ARE nice guys. I think everyone who says to himself, or his friends, or this bulletin board, "I really want to remain a nice guy," is actually believing, "Wanting to have sex with a woman is a non-nice thing to want." What an asshole.

Interesting. And yet, aren't we men just as culpable with our Madonna/whore complex?

Off-topic: Book Guy, when you said many, many threads ago we should start a business, were you really serious?

Quasi-serious. Kind of like everything here on Fat Tuesday. :)

Women fall for stupid, hot guys. Men fall for stupid, hot women. SHould this be a surprise to anybody?

Sorry to be off-topic, but Book Guy: You wanna talk about it?

Doug I had the exact same experience last night. I had aksed a girl for a dance and she said okay but spent most of the time with the guy sitting next to me who had the long "dreadlocks" hairstyle going on. I had told another dancer could she peep in the private room and tell the other girl I was waiting on her. Dancer B told me " I am going to be honest with you, if she is sitting back there with another customer and not dancing apparently she must not want to do a dance." I think dancers gravitate to people or guys that are more like them OTC. The dancer in question has more of a badgirl look to her. To sum things up I guess "People know there own kind."

Some young guy:

I invite you to email me at book underscore guy at yahoo dot come. (The underscore character is a shift-hyphen on my keyboard.) I look forward to hearing from you.

I don't often see what kind of guys strippers date, but a few years back when I was in Tampa I happened to be leaving the MV when the hottest dancer in the club was leaving for the night. One bad-ass young Hispanic dude in a huge $75K BMW was waiting for her. He was a perfect match for her. He was as handsome as she was gorgeous. But he looked like his father probably had connections with the Medellin Cartel. That was the moment in my life that I figured out and I would never have a chance to date a stripper.