I need help getting on the level.

dang man. you are on easy street.

Lol. The problem is it's got my mind fucked up. Were they talking about me? Why couldn't I just say "I wanna fuck you like I'm 18 again"? I mean I was pretty much inside of here already just with a thin price of elastic cloth between and I couldn't say "got a condom?" I literally didn't sleep last night thinking about it. I had no idea I'd be affected like this. Maybe i can't handle it. Lol.

"... She asks why I didn't stay longer than about an hour and I avoid a clear answer which would have been " My stomach was covered in semen and it was soaking into my shirt." Instead I just say "I didn't have a lot of time and had some things to get to ..."

I know your problem - you have tiny underdeveloped balls (in a figurative sense) - but most newbs do.

Newsflash - strippers are not our wives of GFs - i.e. we don't owe them any sort of explanation and they don't owe us any sort of explanation - it's a business relationship not a courtship nor pickup scenario - as long as you are paying her fairly and not treating her like shit, that is all your're responsible for - 99% of the time strippers don't really give a shit what you are thinking, there mind is on their $$$ and their $$$ is on their mind - it's all about the $$$ and the hustle it's just the good-ones don't make it look like a hustle and that is when newbs get into trouble.

"... What you think she was thinking..."

Oh dear lord - typical newbie thinking - didn't I just say it's all about the $$$ and that they really don't think shit about you other than how much they're gonna get out of you.

Newsflash numero dos - 99% of the itme she's not into you; so it doesn't fucking matter "what she's thinking" - it's not like you messed-up on connecting w/ your possible future wife.

Veterans of the strip-club wars (and minor-scrimmages) know one thing, you are the one w/ the $$$ so you call the shots and control the situation/interaction - most strippers are gonna want the mo$t while doing the least so if you just "follow their lead" often times you end up overpaying and not getting what you want/thought.

"... she gives me the low down on their VIP and private rooms. Those are the areas she prefers to give her dances as it's more private ..."

This is the version of "the tour hustle" - where a dancer pretends to be being nice "by showing you around" but it's a very old stripper sales tactic to be all up on you b/f you know what hit you - i.e. 99.9% of the time when she gives you the tour she will put you on the spot about doing a VIP w/ her b/c afterall "she was nice enough to show you around" - it's a hustle.

"... Those are the areas she prefers to give her dances as it's more private ..."

Those are the areas she prefers b/c that is where she can put her hooks into you for bigger $$$ and you spending more $$$ than you had planned - she played you like a grand piano - your green-ass got hustled by a vet.

I don't think you should be in a VIP situation till you know what you are doing and know what it is you want - stick to lap-dances if you like those then graduate once you got a better handle for the SC-game and are more educated on the hustles dancers run - right now it seems you are biting-off more than you can chew.

Yeah. It's a lesson in how minuscule my testicles are. I thought they were just fine but I was mistaken. I know she was interested in anything but making money. Still how do I progress from letting her take it to giving it to her on terms we are both more satisfied with? How should I have played it?

Thanks for the reality check papi. When you put it like that I can see I'm a pup swimming with sharks. Take it slow. Learn the game before I try to hit a home run. Also mix the shit out of my metaphors.

There are a ton of resources on this site known as TUSCL.

If you have a VIP membership, you have access to reading all published club reviews. That is a good way to find clubs nearby that cater towards your strip club needs.

There is the glossary, which is useful so that you know what all the common terms and abbreviations used on this site are.

And then, there is this discussion board. Lots of good advice is given here. I give props to Papi as he is one of the best at giving fellow PL's advice.

To save time finding answers to your questions, your best bet is to use the search function that is on the homepage. It is useful to locate past discussions that may answer questions that you have.

I myself have utlized this site to its full potential to change my strip club habits so that I now get the most out of my visits. I didn't need to start a bunch of threads asking questions. I found all my questions had already been answered multiple times already.

Strippers are basically salespeople - one needs to know how to handle salespeople o/w one often gets the short-end-of-the-stick.

It's analogous to buying a car - do you think it's wise to not know anything about cars or their value or what kind of "extras" you want on it, then just go by what the salesperson tells you and let him guide you - of course not - "don't be so gullible McFly".

Just like buying a car - you say I want X features and I'm willing to pay Y price and often times one has to negotiate (and often times not if the price works for both).

From reading reviews or asking on here you get a sense of what's fair and for how much - then as they say in France "just fucking ask" - again strip-clubs are not ChistianSingles.com; i.e. strippers are used to being asked for sex ALL THE TIME - as long as you do it somewhat tactfully, 99% of the time you'll get a yes or a simple no or "no I don't do that" - as long as it's an extras club then if you want X the best way to get X is to ask for what you want and not settle for less, i.e. not settle for what she wants or dictates - she has every right to say no or refuse your offer but you have every right to spend your $$$ on what YOU want not what she dictates.

if it's not an extras-club then you're SOL so "the strategy" does not matter - in non-extras clubs the only option is OTC but you are clearly not ready for black-belt mongering.

Just like it's up to you to get the best-deal when buying a car, it's up to you to have the best time in a strip-club - clubs, and strippers, 99% of the time are gonna do what's best for them often at your expense, it's up to you to lookout for yourself and your good-time and it's up to you to not get ripped-off.

Papi has it right. Scout out the clubs in your travel plans for what could be offered from the ladies and the potential price. Don't be shy -- tell her what you want and get her to quote the cost. Reply with half that amount. Take with you what you want to spend. Don't use the ATM if you can avoid it. Commit on services provided and the cost before you go to VIP to avoid any hard feelings later. Best of luck.

Papi is spot on with his advice.

Lots of Phoenix mongers on this site, including myself. Feel free to pm for intel on clubs as you expand your territory.

papi seems to have a lot of wisdom. more than my fuckin 67 years. fuck. i was married 35 years. easy 33 years of massive mistakes.

You generally can't go wrong making it rain about $30,000. And don't think you can fool them with $29,999. They count it!

I'm a believer in selecting a favorite club, learning the rules, finding favorite dancers, then just rolling with it. The chances of a negative experience drop to nearly zero. No matter how experienced a customer is, there is a learning curve associated with a new club.

oh yeah

Think of the $350 as an investment and not an expense. At a minimum you learned what NOT to do.Their hustle stays the same,whereas you can up yours.

The problem is you didn't tell her what you want. It sounded like she was ready to do just about anything for you including sex or a blowjob. The good news is that you spent so much money on her that she'll be willing to give you the exact same or better experience the next time you see her.

The next time you go, walk to the lap dance area with her. Tell her you want to be in her hands and when she takes your dick out, tell her you want to be inside her.

Poker players don't win every tournament we play on, but when we lose we try to learn from it. Thats all you did. Learning from it makes the money worth it.

There are two words that answer most questions posed by newbies including this one -- Just Ask. Strip clubs are not like the real world. In the real world you can't ask women for sex two minutes after you meet her.. But you absolutely can in most strip clubs. Not all will say yes, in fact most may say no depending upon the club, But there will be no negative consequences from asking.

Before I commit to spending $100 or more on a dancer in VIP I usually ask about the services that I'm going to receive for my money. This may be sex of various types, or perhaps she has beautiful nipples that I just want to suck on. Whatever it is that you want Just Ask. If she says no you can just pass on her or you can offer her alternatives. For example, if she refuses to let you cum in her mouth you can ask to fuck her, or whatever your thing is. Be very specific about what you want because if you don't you probably won't get it.

I know this is a very difficult hurdle for a newbie to overcome. It took me a long time to get comfortable with it. But you will never be a veteran strip club goer if you can't ask a stripper to suck your dick and swallow your cum in the same way that you order tea to drink from a waitress. It really is easy once you get used to it.

While there are many areas where you need to improve, I'll share one more which is that you need to know the club before you go. You do this by reading reviews on tuscl and sending PMs to guys who have reviews of the club that you're going to. If you are going to an extras club like the one you write about, then you can be very confident in asking for whatever you want. But if you are in a non extras club then what you ask for needs to be more modest. For example, at cheetah in Atlanta which I see that you reviewed, I would not ask a dancer for sex unless she made the fist move because I know that sex is prohibited there. So in that club I just ask aboit the level of contact that the girl provides in VIP. I know that asking for sex there would almost inevitably be a waste of time.

Welcome to TUSCL! You've been given a lot of good advice.

You will be able to have sex with strippers--either ITC (Inside the Club) or OTC (Outside the Club). Not all strippers will have sex with you, but there are enough who will. Some cities and clubs are extras-friendly. If you travel a lot, you can research the cities you're going to in advance. Detroit and Miami are two cities provide a lot of action. You should decide how much money you are willing to spend on a girl ($200? $300? $400?), and negotiate for that price. Never pay in advance.

Getting nervous at first is understandable, I guess. I think part of the experience, at least for me, is feeling more confident as you engage in the fantasy.

Recently I've had extras from 3 different women ITC in the regular lap dance area. If they're rubbing it a lot, just ask them if they want to see it. If they say yes, whip it out.

You can also ask them to kiss it if you want. They may talk about paying extra and if they do I'm shutting that down. They can just jerk it or whatever.

But I've had a girl spit on it for that extra lube on a tug and even had a couple of brief BJs. That's with another dance going on a few feet away from me. Sometimes you hear about a camera but I don't believe them since she wouldn't be sucking if there were.

VIP room isn't something I'd be interested in regularly, you never know what's gonna happen in there.

Thanks everyone for the good advice. All of you have been very helpful. I've had some time to wrap my head around these new experiences I realize I started playing a game I don't even understand the basic rules of. I'll be reading plenty of articles and following the discussions. I just don't want to pigeon hole myself into being a guy they expect to unload $300-$400 every time I walk through the door. I know I don't know what the hell im doing I just don't want them to know it!

Dancers claiming you as their regular is a frequent occurrence - this results in;

• other dancers avoiding you b/c you are X's custy/regular

• the dancer in-question making a beeline for you as soon as you step foot in the club and you are effectively cockblocked from any other dancer you may want to get w/

Thus any PL that plans to be a regular club-goer absolutely needs to learn how to say "no" and be comfortable saying it o/w one often ends up having the SC experience the dancers want vs the-one one wants - always say to yourself when in the club, "it's about me" (since you are the one paying and often spending a good amount of $$$, so it should be about you not the person you are paying) - in a club one def has to be selfish b/c everyone is (dancers, the club, etc are all looking after themselves - one can't afford to be Mr Chivalrous in a a club b/c it will often be used to your/wallet's detriment)

Enjoyed reading your report !

Welcome to TUSCL.

Over 6 years of clubbing for me. Still not comfortable hoisting my dick ITC (inside the club). Have a phobia. But OTC - watchout !

Dancers I have disappointed ITC made up big-time OTC, and some. Of course, some - I'm still beating myself being a dick without balls. For most part sex is simply terrific with high energy, drug free dancers.

If you like the blonde she will most likely have fun OTC with you now. First time pay her more than she asks. Offer her a simple proposition - "I'm really uncomfortable getting naked here. I'd like to spend an hour with you at XYZ hotel and can pay you within reason and what you are comfortable with. Afterwards you can go home or we can go dining/shopping/clubbing with me as a way of relaxing - your choice."

Happy clubbing.

I'd add a caveat to roger's suggestion of paying more the first time than she asks.

While it will get her attention if you really liked the experience, you have now set the pricing for any future encounters.

Hence, if she wanted $200 and you gave her $300 for example, she is going to always expect the $300 from you each time. Just something to be aware of, in my experience.

^ yeap - usually never a good-idea to set a bad precedent that she may expect going-forward - no one likes having their "salary" cut

Warhawks and Papi - yes you both are correct.

I just want to pay fairly - especially new dancers who have not assessed their worth and end up bidding on the low side. A new dancer will know the prevailing OTC rate in a few months, if not in a few weeks. Being fair to her when you could take advantage of her will translate to sweeter and genuine love as months roll by.

Of course - I have walked away from dancers who ask for $1000 or some insane amount. That does not happen often - I am usually able to spot my type of dancers.

Even if a dancer asks a bit more than prevailing rate, I add to it because I already like her (selected for OTC). I genuinely want to express how much I value the dancer for her services by giving her what she wants (money). It does translate to great sex.

I shouldn't be saying this - every PL needs to find a way to express that he is not cheap. But we can be broke. At times. My rule is - If I don't have sufficient disposable money on a given day, I don't go to strip club or OTC. Then I get texts why I'm not at the club. I tell the dancer that I don't have enough money. Response is "How much you got?". Rest you know - though I have never understood the dancer logic.

My experience is never bargain with a beauty. Make her feel good, make her feel special with the resources you got. And - don't break the bank - most dancers view that as a major strength in a man. In the end you will get all the love you wanted and some.

... in my experience - most of the time.

Update: since posting last I've been back twice. The first of those two visits was on a fairly busy Friday afternoon. I fumbled around in the dark looking for an empty seat, ordered a drink, and enjoyed the stage show for a few minutes. I saw the blonde I've got a thing for with another customer, bummer. She went on stage and saw me, smiled and waved. I did likewise. I was then approached by another dancer I've did VIP with before. We ordered drinks and talked for a few minutes. Then she asked if I'd like to go back for some more privacy. Paid the VIP fee and went back for about 20 minutes. She went down on me after a song or two and gave it a good effort. The sensation was great but oral doesn't always get me there and sometimes actually makes it almost impossible. While my dick was in her mouth I realized I'm not really that into her and call it quits. I guess the fact that fake tits aren't really my thing and her snatch, while not stinky, didn't exactly smell like roses either, turned me off. I thanked her and payed up, with a decent tip, because I'm a gentleman after all. I still had about $150 I'd planned on spending but needed to step away from the stage area to check a message on my phone. As I'm walking toward the exit the blonde runs up to me and gently grabs my arm. "You aren't leaving me are you?" She asks coyly. "No," I reply. "I just needed to check on something." She offers to find us a seat and I agree.

When I joined her she she draped her legs over mine and stroked my thigh. We made small talk for a few minutes which isn't my thing but whatever. Then she asks if I know the dancer I was in VIP with to which I replied not really. She introduced me to her friend and introduced the idea of doing doubles. He friend had really nice big tits but her face and ass were lacking. She asks if I'd like some dances or to just talk some more. I'm not a big talker so we go to VIP for about five songs. I let her know how much I had left to spend for the day and I know she was disappointed lol. She was very sensual and did some decent grinding and a little stick shifting. About two songs in I notice she's clock watching or either interested in something going on the main club area. This kills the vibe and mood for me and my boner was gone. Still, I'm hooked from our first encounter. I asked about her schedule which she gave me. I left after and promised to see her again soon.

I Went again today with the intention of only getting dances from her. She was on stage when I arrived and immediately came to my seat when she was done. We talk for a minute and I order a drink and offer to buy her one because I know that's a thing people do, lol. She replies, "I don't drink and I don't want you to pay $5 for a water I can get for $1." We hung out for a while and she doesn't bring up dances at all. Finally I say, "I've done VIP with you. What's the deal with the private rooms?" She explains, "That's where you go if you want more privacy and intimacy." I ask her where she prefers to go. "That depends on what you want to do," she replies. "But, for the time we spent together last time the private room is a better deal. You get 30 minutes for $250, which includes two drinks, and then tip." My plan was to get the private room anyway so that's where we went. I ordered my drinks and away we went. She instructs me to sit in the corner and I comply. Apparently, I wasn't reclined enough so she pulls me down a little. She then straddles me and slowly removes her top. Dances were hot with lots of two way contact, nipple sucking, and ass grabbing. I was a little handsy myself lol. She turned around and slowly grinds on me, arching her back and nibbleing my ear. Then she takes my hand and puts it on her pussy over her thong. I oblige and begin softly rubbing. She moved my hand a little then pulled he panties away and put my hand in. She was very wet. I rub a little and then slip a finger in. Holy shit! I had forgotten how tight her pussy is. One finger and no room for wiggling it! Still I work on it. Hitting her g-spot. She begins moaning and really grinding on me then reaches in and starts stroking with a nice rhythm. She changes positions. Bent over on the couch with her ass facing me. She guides my hand back to her tight little hole and I go at it again. Stroking on her g-spot and gently thumbing her clit. Kind of like when you grab a six pack. At this point I realize it's been a while. She grabs our drinks to refresh us and I lightheartedly ask if they forgot about us. She checks and it's been 40 minutes. "Bummer," I say. "Are you done?" she asks. To which I reply,"I don't want to spend another $250." She informed me that They can't charge me more unless they notify us that the 30 minutes is up. I couldn't help but feel like I would be stealing her time if we kept going though so I decline. After a killer more light petting we make an exit and I promise to see her again soon. I had a lot of fun with her. I can't wait to go back. But, I want to fuck. In the club. Trouble is I need it to feel organic. I'm not saying I don't want to pay for it. I just don't want to negotiate or do anything else that kills the fantasy of mutual wanting to fuck each other. I've been reading theough the forums a lot and checking out the articles as well. I still haven't found a method of making it happen that feels like we're just LETTING it happen. I'm really enjoying the slow build but I'm ready to close the deal now. Any advice on how to make this progress in a natural feeling way?

Sorry I keep writing novels, LMFAO. This should also probably be a review. If anyone wants me to post a version up on the club let me know.

It's not a Jr-High dance - it's a place of business where sex is exchanged for $$$ - if you want romance get a civilian-chick; if you want P4P then you gotta speak the fuck up and ask for what you want - no room for nice-guys in strip-clubs b/c it's often filled w/ sharks.

If you don't want to "verbalize" your desires then do what I do and just take your dick out - and either she'll take it from there or she may ask "what do you want to do" - you can say "just do w/e you wanna do", if you don't want to straight out ask - but she may bring-up the issue of extra-payment which is why it's better to settle things upfront - IMO $250 is good-enough payment to fuck but also depending on what she gets to keep from the $250 which not all dancers will be honest about - in-fact you should independently verify if VIP is indeed $250.

I've seen other reviews for the club that verify $250 is the rate for the private rooms. It's not that I don't know what's up. It's that I'm trying to achieve a more GFE. I'm willing to spend the extra time and money if it would mean I get to pretend it's a stripper wanting to fuck me and happens to get paid for her time.

Then you can try to set up a OTC-date in her free-time but good chance $$$ will be involved and thus not exactly "organic"