Is tipping for lap dances really the same as tipping a waitress?

Interesting topic! As far as prices going up, that's economics. If you've been paying one price for 15 years without an increase, then, good for you!!! Has your pay rate increased during 15 years? I know mine has. I'm not trying to rip on you, quite the opposite. I would love for the cost of goods to stay the same as my income increases, but that's not how we work.
Tipping is a different animal. From what I understand, most strippers are independent contractors, running their own business, renting space/time from the SC. For that privilege they pay a fee. They tip-out whoever else they have agreed to tip-out (Im assuming) as part of their agreement with the SC. A customer tipping is an expression of gratitude. It can also be relative to the value of services received. Typically, business owners do not receive tips (think the owner of a hair salon cutting your hair).

Nobody wants to work hard anymore, these girls make 3 times as much as waitress'es and still complain.... easy money has destroyed the work ethic associated with any profession.

My advice, tell these upsellers to get the fuck out of your face.

Waitresses make the bulk of their $$$, if not all their $$$, from tips - dancers are already well compensated at $20 for a dance that's usually just a bit over 3-minutes - a tip is not mandatory and dancers should not be padding it on top (that would be like a waitress automatically adding her tip to your drink bill).

AFAIK in most clubs there is a standard dance-price set by the club - if a dancer tells me after the fact she charges more I won't pay the difference, and if she tells me beforehand she charges more than the std dance price, I won't get dances with her.

Papi we are in total agreement sir!

Part of the problem is that there are some clubs that take as much as 50% of the dance cost from the dancer

I personally believe a tip is given for good service, while I don't stiff lousy waitstaff or others that generally are tipped(valets, barbers, bartenders, etc. ) I can be very generous if I feel exceptionally well taken care of, I'm not so sure that dancers always deserve a tip and I act accordingly and appropriately. That being said I don't think it is a good practice for a club to allow different girls to charge different amounts for dances in the same club , that is an issue I would get guidance on by asking management if it is allowed and if it was I would probably not go there anymore.
As to raising dance prices you can counter that by not patronizing them and if enough feel the same they will be forced to reverse that decision.

Yeah I get that I know some clubs take $5 off the top from their $20 dance price and I know they sometimes have to tip out the DJ Etc so none of that helps but girls charging different prices in the club is not good for business and this is coming from someone who often does tip I just don't think it should be mandatory. It's just not a good business practice the girls often complain about guys coming in there and sitting on their hands and not buying dances stuff like this will only create more of those guys

The girls sometimes get themselves spun up on these things. On StripperWeb, they sometimes get each other furious about the fact that they are providing a service and they are entitled to tips... although "entitlement" is the basic watchword there.

I have to admit, in theory there's something to the argument: you basically tip everyone who provides you a service who is not a highly paid salaried employee: you tip your waitress, you tip your CMT, you tip your maid. You *don't* tip your dentist or accountant, even though they provide you a service, also, because they are highly paid salaried employees. On the other hand, strippers are incredibly highly paid employees, too -- at the club I go to, the charge for an hour is quite a bit more than what my lawyer charges for his service (in fact quite a bit more, depending on whether you add it up as multiple VIP rooms or one champagne room). Moreover, that's just the way things have evolved: no customarily-required tips in the sex industry, it's part of the deal right from the beginning.

For myself, I draw a pretty hard line and almost never cross it: I tip for **extraordinary** service. Anything less, no tip. If she asks for a tip, the answer is no, period. If lap dances cost only $5 or $10,

, good comment twentyfive I did go to management about this and they stated that the girls are private contractors and can charge whatever they want for dance as long as they don't charge less than $20

... then I'd definitely loosen up the tipping ethic a bit, perhaps to: "tip for great service"

And I'm someone who believes in tipping I tip my waitress my bartender my pizza guy my skycap Etc I just don't think that it's the same as tipping a stripper since you're actually paying her directly. Of course you tip a stripper when you go to her stage that's different then tipping for an actual lap dance backstage.all these other positions that I mentioned are probably making a tip wage of about $2.13 an hour it's a different ball game

^^^you basically tip everyone who provides you a service who is not a highly paid salaried employee:

--- how much do you consider highly paid? The avg household income in most states is 50-70K.
I would say the only way they can justify charging as high is if they are handling nukes and hazardous bio-chemical waste.

-->"As to raising dance prices you can counter that by not patronizing them and if enough feel the same they will be forced to reverse that decision."

Yep. In this area, girls started to do that, and we (customers) managed to push prices back down after a months-long war of attrition. We did have an advantage though: there was a very popular local forum, so while the girls conspired to raise prices all together in the lockerroom, we customers we able to unify on the forum. It's quite a bit harder without that as an advantage .... if you're just a random customer at this strip club, you might just assume it's a price increase that everyone else is paying and just go along, the power of organizing is definitely a big advantage.

@Subraman. I sense a conservative implying unionizing stripper labor force.

--> "--- how much do you consider highly paid? The avg household income in most states is 50-70K. "

That's the point I was making too -- if considered on an hourly basis, the girls hourly rate is higher than my highly-regarded lawyer's. Yes, easy to say they've passed the threshold.

Regardless of that, though, the thing that have to realize: whether for good or bad, the tip ethic in the sex business -- not just strip clubs, everywhere -- is that there's no imperative to tip, like there is for waitresses and maids. No, she's not entitled to a tip if she provides merely average service, the way a waitress or bellboy would be.

No Supra I'm not a random customer I've been a regular there for over 10 years I wish I had the advantage you were talking about but what I've done is let my girls know that I will not be paying $25 for a dance there from anyone ever. The girls often complain about what they call gawlkers who come in just watch and don't get dances in my opinion if everyone here goes to $25 they're going to make me a gawlker!.. LOL

-->"@Subraman. I sense a conservative implying unionizing stripper labor force."

Well, "bunch of strippers flapping their traps and making agreements in the locker room" is hardly a union, I'm not making any big political metaphors here :) Just that organizing and supporting each other that way, plus the ability to exchange information on what's working and what's not, is a big advantage; I felt it was a huge advantage that the forum (when it existed) got so many eyeballs from regulars and not-so-regulars of the SC in question, we all held fast, at least publicly, exchanged info privately on who was giving us good deals, and waaaaay down the line, the maverick strippers dropped their prices back down (at least for club regulars; out of towners still got quoted crazy prices)

@subra there are lots of random one time customers but I would bet on dayshift at least, the regulars are much more important to the revenue of the clubs and dancers, with some exceptions of corse(Las Vegas, NOLA, and a few others) if I owned or ran a club I would think twice about riling up the regulars, sure a local forum is helpful but their bread and butter comes from blue collar guys down here in Florida and I suspect throughout the country it's not too different. Raising prices might just have a bad effect on these clubs, just sayin!

That's the point a tipping is ex gratia.
WIKI > When something has been done ex gratia, it has been done voluntarily, out of kindness or grace.

If the going wage is not satisfactory strippers can switch to waitressing in the same club. I am sure it's a less skilled job.

Yes, you pay the girl directly. But the club takes some of that most of the time. I do think they deserve a tip for good dances(do not tip for airdances or upsells during the dance). However, I don't think they should take it upon themselves to add the tip to the dance price. Waitresses usually make minimum wage. Strippers, if they take their job seriously, should make a lot more.

Tipping for dances and tipping waitresses is not the same. I always tip waitresses. I never tip for dances. My tip for dances is getting multiple dances.

^ I actually agree that getting multiple dances is a good substitute for tipping, but if a customer doesn't have the time, stamina, or money, to adequately show that he is pleased by buying multiple dances, and wants the dancer to continue the same level of service, or even to bump him up on her priority list, then tipping makes sense.

I agree Larry that's pretty much what I do. I never just get 1 dance unless the bitch is terrible.

I agree with that bj99 if you only get one dance and the dance was good. With me personally if the first dance is good, I always get at least two more.

Yea that makes sense bj99 but I'm never getting just 1 dance unless it's terrible and it's rarely that bad.

Now I completely understand why most strippers are bi or gay: men. Men can be absolutely appalling and it seems like most that can be described as such, congregate here.

You're expecting these human beings to provide you with a virtual sex experience, wanna cum in ur pants and ur complaining over a $10 tip?! God,
Who raised you?

And maybe all of these strippers should join a union...because then they could go on strike and it would finally dawn on you jerks that NO ONE wants to f-ck, let alone date ur cheap asses and that maybe a $10 tip isn't that bad after all.

Ugh. Men are oblivious.

I find that most dancers don't like tips so I always give full penetration.

And the jaded stripperweb Community has finally joined the discussion folks and look it's her first comment

No IT IS NOT the same . When they pull that crap trying to charge more than the club rate that's when you ask her if the house mom or manager is around . She'll change her tune real quick . The waitress is providing a service , The floor men are providing a service , The bartender , the valet , the shit house attendant , the DJ BUT not the scum bag trying to game the system and up sell the dance . I say scum bag because this one hits home with all the BS going down at a very popular ATL club right now. That among other reasons is why "she" has been fired from every club in ATL.

I hope some of you...God, I don't even want to address you by the term, "men"...talk this way outside of the club so the people who associate with the likes of you can truly see what they are dealing with.

Sex workers are always in demand- because of the likes of you. Non-paid females wouldn't dare touch you.

@Calichixk you are an idiot go back to stripper web with your stupid poseur attitude.

@Calichixk sex workers are like city buses 5 minutes later another one comes along.

Well, if a girl is going to charge more than the house rate, she needs to make that clear from the start. I suppose if it's that busy, to the point where she's having to wait in line to give dances at the lap dances area, I could see charging more. Also, night shift at my club means girls only dance one song between break songs. I can see charging 25 and explaining that there will be more time overall if she's also including the break songs. Most dancers I know who charge more do it bc they don't make any money, so they are trying to make up for it, but I do know one girl who is very professional ab her higher rates.

i will consider a tip for a girl that knocks my socks off. and/or will do more dances and vips with her.

and non-paid females (that i like) wouldn't dare touch my old ass.

I love the over-entitled, hate my job, hate my life, hate my customers, but it's their problem not mine, stripperweb attitude...lol! Always helps me put my problems in perspective :)

Anyway, to repeat again: unlike many service jobs, there is and has never been an expectation/entitlement of tipping in the sex industry... not anywhere, not escorts, not bodyrubs, not stripping. It's okay to not like it, but the reality is, not tipping a stripper who provides average service, is NOTHING like not tipping a waitress who provides average service.

bj: I don't blame girls for looking to get compensated more -- I mean, that's what I try to do in my job, too. I don't necessarily patronize girls who charge more, but I don't blame them, it's just business. And I actually have come full circle in my thinking about girls who charge more but work their asses off to provide better service to justify it -- I think a premium price for a truly premium experience is fair. Which is a far cry from a stripper who pre-charges the tip, when there are plenty of other strippers around who don't do so and provide the same level of service.

She sounds more like an angry wife or gf than a stripper. Most of the successful dancers I know genuinely enjoy men, and have a high tolerance for silly customer stuff, which is just a bit elevated from how men are to civi women. It's surprisingly refreshing for a customer to holler at me, "nice tits! Wow!," when I walk past, rather than just being stared at creepily, in public. It's not unlike how guys here have a high tolerance for SS, which is really just elevated flakey girl stuff.

I have no problem with a dancer charging a higher rate so long as she is clear about it up front and doesn't play it off as the club's regular rate. That gives me an opening to find out why she charges more and decide if I want to be a buyer. Generally I say hell no.

@bj99 stated "Most dancers I know who charge more do it bc they don't make any money, so they are trying to make up for it"

Does this work? I would imagine that it would be harder and take longer to convince PLs to get dances at a premium than to just do a couple more at the regular rate.

Yeah. I agree. Precharging a tip is dumb, and she won't make more overall doing stuff like that.

No, it doesn't work. It's gambler mentality out of desperation.

^so it's appropriate if I yell "nice ass!" when a stripper walks past. Always wanted to do that but didn't want a negative reaction.

It doesn't bother me at all. It happens a lot. You should be prepared to be nice and give her a dollar, or ask for dances if she comes over to thank you tho. ;) unlike w civi girls, who will be indignant, and then go home and "complain" that they got cat called on fb.

lol actually my girlfriend is a stripper. Not a guy.

i enjoy bj99's perspective a lot more than this angry stripperweb chick that randomly chimed in to say the least!....and I don't have a problem tipping a dancer afterwards if it is a great dance. But to expect it and compare it to a waitress whom i wouldn't dare not tip is just wrong.

I usually do tip for dances if I want to get more from her in the future, but not if I won't repeat.

And because I've personally seen the sh-t she has to put up with, I don't get the hemming at $5. That's less than a combo meal at McDonalds.

She's been grabbed, assaulted (in more ways than one), violated...all NOT part of the deal.
These things are very much tolerated and swept under the rug by management and deemed tolerable under the false lighting the club provides for all inside.

I read about men trying to cum in their pants, get blowjobs, f-cked, etc and call these women derogatory names. But who are the idiots who keep returning to these "b-tches" and dropping money (albeit, very tightly).

Perhaps my view is from a cliche version of a significant other, watching her get her doctorate while having to disassociate and put on a persona so she doesn't take in psychological harm. But hey...who cares if she's degraded, demeaned, assaulted, all so she doesn't have to incur over $55K of student debt and no job when she gets out (she'll have to intern to get her hours).

Men. Go figure. Wish all the guys would put their dating status next to their comment. It would speak volumes.

I wish some of you on here would watch the videos on YouTube that show what an average woman puts up with on a daily basis. Not in the strip club.

It's accepted and tolerated in this culture, but can you imagine a guy getting his junk grabbed by a fat woman who he didn't find attractive? Gawked at by an ugly woman? Propositioned by an old woman he would never even look at?

But hey, it's okay.

No, it's not. It's disgusting.

Inside the strip club is obviously different, so just skip the line at Carl's Jr. and save the $5 from your huge cheeseburger that you stuff in ur gut and tip the woman who you grab, grope, and put ur sweaty hands on.

I haven't kept up with the entire thread so am little confused here.

1. Is this Calichixk character a man-hating stripper or a stripper's man-hating girlfriend?

2. Is the stripper that she refers to (whether it be her or her GF) being held captive and forced to work at a strip club?

I generally tip $5 per dance in any event, so if I'm quoted a rate that I know is over the norm (and all you have to do is check on TUSCL before you go to the club!) then I simply don't add anything additional - she's already gotten her tip.

I think that dancers appreciate having part of the club take covered and I think that marks me as a guy that they want to dance for.

I have never gotten a dance that was so bad that I wouldn't leave a tip (although I wouldn't hesitate to do that if I did). I have gotten a few that I considered to be substandard, and in those cases it was one and done forever.

She is a man hating stripper GF and they keep her girl caged in locker room and roll her out on weekends it sounds like:)

-->"1. Is this Calichixk character a man-hating stripper or a stripper's man-hating girlfriend?"

I'm pretty sure it's juice, but for this character he's lowered the cognitive capacity and is bringing up all kinds of topics that have nothing to do with whether strippers should pre-charge tips or not. It takes brilliance to create such a dim character :)

Yeah, the gfs do seem more worried ab it than the boyfriends. I always hear girls fighting w their girl friends ab working on the phone, in the locker room. Maybe a new Xbox would help. The boyfriends like those.

Well bj99 I'll give you credit you do seem to know what most typical stripper bf's have in common Xbox ,weed and unemployment:)

I think the GFs get a bit more jealous and insecure than the BFs because they see the other dancers as more threatening competition than the BFs consider the customers (whether true or not).

Plus most BFs seem to either bury their heads in the sand or don't care so long as they get theirs.

Oh yeah, how did I forget weed? Good catch, Butter. We gotta take care of our boyfriends, or they will start thinking during all of that off time lol.

@Calichixk you are such a fucking militan,t you come on here knowing less than nothing about any of us, and you have your panties all twisted in a knot. If your girlfriend hates dancing so much she needs to find another line of work, and by the way you don't say if she/he is supporting you,but refuse the money if it's repugnant to you, or better yet go out and get a job and support her/him.
Like I said earlier you are an idiot and a poseur GTFOH.

If a dancer is ungrateful about a custy spending $20 for just 3 or so minutes then she shouldn't get anything (not to mention many custies get more than one dance and spend more than $20)

FYI, I don't like to go to clubs where $20/dance is the norm. I tend to frequent the $10/dance establishments, but I end up giving almost $20 per after tip.

^ but that’s because I decide I want to tip, not because some stripper up charges.

I play devils advocate and agree with calichix, on the part about ldks, bj's and derogatory names. No doubt that happens on a daily basis. And it probably shouldnt be part of the job description.

Except it is part of the job description and quite frankly, $20 for 3 or 4 minutes is good money. So its not like they arent being conpensated. Lots of people hate their jobs but do it anyway for much less than stripper rates.

Strippers don't have to put up w anything they aren't okay w. Unlike most other service type job, we can walk away, or never talk to a customer again, if we aren't okay w how he treats us. It's not even a bad business decision bc a girl makes the most when dealing w customers she actually likes, and by working often and having a good attitude.

@Bj99 she is just an idiot I never treat any women strippers or not badly but I don't suffer fools gladly.

She's insecure. She has to imagine that her gf is hating every moment of it.

Bj99 I'm going to give another vote of trust:) you said you wanted to gain Insight on the other side's mindset when you got on here and you seem to be doing so and seems like you have your head on straight and from your picture you're hot!:)

I don't tip strippers. If a thot pulled that crap with me, I'd just tell her to leave. I ask before every dance so her doing that is a straight up lie and she will not get her $5 chicken scratch.

I'd rather tip the food attendant

Am I the only one that hopes to discover that bj99 dances at their local club?

Now if I ever found a $10 per dance club, I'd get only the finest of women and more than likely tip PER dance. But no such club exist in NY so oh well.

I agree with flagooner if Bj99 comes to my neck of the Florida woods she'd bank I promise you.

Agreed! If that's her photo she would definitely Bank her personality kind of reminds me of a cross between Nina and the chick that used to dance in West Virginia I think I can't remember her name

Pole dancer

No not pole dancer... what was the girl's name that danced in West Virginia I thought she sent us like full pictures of her before dark hair Slim cute

.

I think she got pregnant and took some time off for something sounds familiar

Awe. Thanks guys, but you'd be disappointed bc I don't even do extras, let alone otc. I have increased my average by reading and participating on here tho. :) No sense in going on sw; the last thing I need is stripper group think.

That was Phoenix

Yes Phoenix that was the one she seems like a cross between Phoenix and Nina.... and I'm spent money on girls in the club that didn't do extras as long as they give a good dance

Tipping staff is nice. But trying to pay off bouncers does lead to trouble.

Giving money to dances is good, but buying dances is a chump's game. Wrong choreography.

SJG

You guys need to give calichix a break, I get the sense she suffers from PE (penis envy)

:)

I imagine we'll probably never hear from Calichix again today was her first day on the site she probably stumbled on the Forum and decided to lash out at the guys that are helping her precious GF pay off that student debt

"@Calichixk sex workers are like city buses 5 minutes later another one comes along."

LOL!

And the kicker w.r.t. tipping is that it is often times the girls that give poor or just avg dances that bring up tipping them - i.e. they abuse the system (give most strippers an inch they'll take a mile).

@ BJ99:

What city do you dance in?

It's fine if you rather keep your anonymity.

I'd rather keep my anonymity, but I don't see any regulars here who live in my city.

"And the kicker w.r.t. tipping is that it is often times the girls that give poor or just avg dances that bring up tipping them - i.e. they abuse the system (give most strippers an inch they'll take a mile)."

You may be on to something. Thats definitely true more often than not. If they feel they have to raise their prices because they arent getting enough tips, maybe they arent doing enough to warrant tips. Granted not everyone will tip for lapdances, as evidenced in this thread. But still enough guys should tip if the dancer is putting in effort. Do strippers expect everyone to tip for lapdances?

What other salespeople does one tip? Does one tip a car-salesman when they buy a car? I think the fact one gives dancers their biz (buy dances) is being considerate enough (considering there can often be dozens of dancers competing for your biz)

Too often we PLs confuse dancers w/ a woman one would court - dancers are there to please spending custies and tend to the custies' needs, not the other way around yet many PLs pay the dancer and at the same time bend over backwards to give-her her every wish

@papi... I understand your position because you seem to be strictly a variety seeker.

I enjoy developing the comfort and familiarity of favorites. Tipping modestly is usually appreciated and remembered which I have found helps in receiving favorable future treatment.

Every situation is different - but I feel bending over backwards for a fave can often lead to being taken for granted and getting into diminishing returns territory and RILs acting as de-facto personal concierges

^at that point, you take your money elsewhere. Maybe she gets her act together, maybe not.

I don't mind tipping a little over and above the house rate if the girl gives a good dance, but the quickest way to lose my patronage is to demand a tip up front, or worse, do a "Cuban drive-by" (Dancer walks by, asks if you want a dance, then responds to rejection with "You should give me $5 because I'm so hot, papi.")

I got hit with a an up-front tip demand this past week. She wanted an extra $10 per dance because she was pretty convinced that she was God's gift to us poor PLs, and the hottest thing on heels. I told her I'd get a few dances from some of the more ordinary girls first so I'd have a frame of reference if I ever decided to get a dance from her. I'm not sure she understood that she'd been shut down, because she kept coming back.

Tipping isn't bending over backwards. Tipping is just tipping. There's no inherent pussification. It's just a little extra; maybe for a little extra, or maybe bc she gave it, or bc you always expect it. I know a couple customers who always tip very generously and girls scramble to get to them, but they pick the girls they want each time. They tip bc they are just better customers. Like how some girls are just better dancers.

What I mean by bending over backwards is tipping (or anything else) b/c the PLs feel obligated and can't, or are too uncomfortable, with ever saying "no" to a dancer - most on here are not anti-tipping, just anti being nagged about it and being asked for tips by dancers that are not faves and even when they give crappy dances - it's not about not tipping, but dancers demanding or feeling an automatic entitlement to a tip for just doing a basic dance and sometimes less

I'm sure Flag is way beyond that, but yeah, some girls have no humility. They shouldn't be rewarded for being rude.

Tipping itself seems to have changed. Now waitresses seem to expect 15-25% regardless of their service. To me, tips will always be earned not just given. They are like bonuses for sales people.

bj99, what do strippers consider a very generous tip? Thanks

Depends. For dances, if guy gets 3 and gives us 100, it makes him a popular guy, and it buys some flexibility w stuff like wanting to talk for awhile first.

^3 at how much? If its $30 a dance I do usually just give her $100 for 3 dances.

20 per dance at my club, but I think buying three at 30 is also generous.

3 dances at $25 will get $80 or $90.

The biggest obstacle with tipping is not having appropriate bills so I usually tip based on convenience.

How about if they bought 3 and gave you $61?

Guys tip you $40 for 3 dances on a regular basis?

I feel cheap.

lol flag! Guys do that! Some guys feel like they must tip, so they will give me whatever ones they have and it will be like three.

Mostly, I'll get tipped 5, for one, or 20 for four. 40 for three dances isn't that common, but it's not uncommon either. That's why it's very generous.

Wow, 40 on top of 60 is a huge tip - 66%.

So for a generous customer, you consider the number of dances as well as the tip? Is there much of a difference between a guy who buys 4 dances and give a hundred vs. a guy who buys 3 and gives a hundred?

I really only care ab the overall money I make, and the total time it takes me. For me, the tip just makes the 60 customer into a 100 customer. I'm not great on picking up on whether I'm special to him, or if I've earned the tip w excellent service. I've actually learned on here that many customers like their favorite dancers more than I'd thought, so I'm trying to be more a little more sensitive to clues, like even the smaller tips from my under 100 guys.

For me, It's important that a customer be consistent w the number of dances they get, or how much I can expect from them. It helps me to prioritize my time, especially with customers who like to talk for awhile, or make apts. most of my customers spend 100-200 per visit. This ammt gives them the priority they all seem to want. If a guy spends under 100, and requires a lot of talking before, then I will let another girl he likes have him if I'm busy. I only have three customers like that, bc they don't get mad at me for the days I don't get to them. I have plenty of under 100 customers who are fine w just getting their dances, and don't expect me to sit long, so I keep them, and I do not expect a tip at all.

thanks for the insight bj99.

Ok bj99 I like you but you pretty hijacked my topic here...LoL I started it asking if tipping for lap dances was cool and the same as tipping a waitress and most responded to say no it isn't the same and that most of us don't tip for lap dances but you've turned it into a tipping for lap dances etiquette touche I guess I have to give you props...LoL

Whoops! Yeah, how did the topic become how to tip me!? ;)

Just out of curiosity while we are still on the subject of tipping any of you farmboys or farmgirls ever try tipping cows ? ; )

Tips shouldnt be requires. If a girl Wants to charge 25, you decide if she's worth 25. That's capitalism. It sounds like the OP is talking about nude high mileage dances. 25 isn't unreasonable, but it depends on the girl.

Bj99, thanks for your perspective. I'm a under 100 regular of my C.F., and she treats me exactly the same. She'll sit a long time if it's dead and doesn't get to me if it's busy, and I'm ok with that.

Nope JamesSD these dances aren't nude or any higher mileage than they ever were they just decided that guys weren't tipping for the dances so they wanted to charge 25 not sure how that's going to go over I know it won't go over well with me lol