Economics Driving Club Strategy?

I'd say you described the difference in daytime and nighttime PLs in every strip club, ever, so I'm guessing it's true of Follies, too :) Although with the far bigger nighttime crowd, overall, there are WAY more VIPs going on, and the nighttime girls make far more money as a result. So: the best looking girls and best hustlers are offered nighttime jobs, dayshift gets less attractive girls and the few super hot girls who have other reasons for not wanting to work nightshift (they have kids, they're tired of living like vampires, etc)

After reading the OP was thinking exactly what Subraman says in his first sentence.

From the heading OP I thought the conversation was going to have to due with if tax cuts are passed, will that in turn lead to more clubbing. For me personally the answer would be yes, I think tax cuts would lead to a few more trips to the clubs for me. :-)

@Goldmonger, you put forward an interesting theory, and the end result may be in fact what is happening however, there are a few potential flaws with this.

1. Unless something has changed, once hired for either days shift or night shift, each of the girls determines when they are working. From what I've heard, they have been allowed to switch too as life circumstance required. I don't think management has said "okay cute white girls, we need you to not work day shifts anymore"
2. I've talked to two girls who have left, and as of yesterday, another who was considering leaving. They describe a change in club vibe as becoming too "hood". Where the dancers are "hoes" and treated as such. I think you are right in that they describe groups of guys there to drink and party, but not to really get dances and few do VIPs. Yesterday, there were several dancers that were working some of the larger tables and a couple of groups were "making it rain" singles, but many girls were sitting at the bar or on the couches by the time I left. The point is, the girls I tend to prefer, are avoiding this evolving vibe....this isn't management's doing in that I don't think they've asked anyone to stop dancing. Just dancer's choice.

I have one other theory about the lack of cute, younger white girls. As the economy has improved, they may be working more outside the club, both regular jobs or OTC where they can connect with the "old, rich, white guys" I mentioned in my recent Follies review.

Thanks for posting this interesting discussion topic.

A flaw I see with the OP is most people work 9-5's. No matter what a club does there are going to be more single PLs during the day (day off from work, between business meetings, finished work early for the day, ect) vs. nighttime when large groups of guys can get together. Thinking another primary customer of daytime clubbing are retiree's, with this type of person more likely to do their clubbing solo.

I see all of these as why reasons why most clubs don't have a cover during the day - the customer base is just smaller.

Those of you who live in Atlanta are in charge of not letting Foliies day shift change. Don't duck this up.

I was in Follies also at opening time on Saturday.... I hope someone will figured it out,,, and bring the club somewhat back to it 2010-14... White dancers dayshift level....

Economics drives most everything. My guess is they're trying to repackage/rebrand their product, much like how Coke changed its name to Coke Classic 30 years ago. When it faltered they changed it back to how it used to be.

It's a phase. Give it time to cycle back as the business model was never broken. They will cater back to the daytime pls who need their fix, just like the girls need their $$.

I was there yesterday with Bubba and have been going twice a week for the last year. one day shift and one weekend shift. Always day shift. I think week days have been slightly better but even on those days it could be hit or miss. It has just continued to slide.

Like everyone else I'm guessing. I don't think that management has much to do with hiring. If they show up with a license from the City of Chamblee, they are going to be allowed to work. The influx of Cuban dancers has just aggravated the problem. They are trying to change the dance rules and are pissing off a lot of the other dancers and some customers too.

I know that the overpass collapse on I-85 has had an impact on some dancers not wanting to fight the traffic on long commutes to work. This should be fixed by the end of this month and hopefully have some affect on turnout of dancers.

As bad as thing are, the club is still the best value in Atlanta and the Southeast and I'll keep going until if/when something better comes along.

I was there on a Saturday day shift last month, and there were two cute white dancers. The one I was most interested in was doing dances back to back with someone or other almost the whole time I was there. It felt like hitting the lotto when I was able to score some dances with her. The other was getting dances stacked by the guy sitting next to me at the bar.

There were also three thick PAWG types who looked almost identical that as far as I could tell had been doing back to back dances for the whole 3+ hours I was there on the couches behind the bar.

In other words, it's hard to tell how the dancers could be doing much better on a different shift if that is a typical day. The one I was into had to be making at least $150/hr on lap dances at 3 minutes per song w/ a bit of time in the dressing room freshening up and walking around to make eye contact with the next eager customer.

Once 4pm rolled around, a dancer snagged my chair at the bar when I got up to partake of the buffet, since there was nowhere else to do a lap dance. I would wonder if the crowd on night shift would negatively impact the dancers' earning potential in case the guys standing around would want dances but there would be nowhere for them to be done.

For those that have not been to Follies, it is a different animal thus trying to describe it in terms of one's experiences w/ other clubs is gonna lead to incorrect assumptions.

Follies *is* as close to two clubs in one that one will see, traditionally mostly white dancers and clientele on dayshift and mostly black dancers and clientele at night and this leads to two bit different dynamics dayshift vs nightshift - for Follies in particular is not as much a dayshift vs nightshift difference as w/ most clubs, but more of a white-club vs black-club difference - and unlike most clubs, w/ Follies in particular it is my belief that the dancers may consider the dayshift the better and more lucrative one.

Atlanta ia very conservative when it comes to strip clubs, Follies is def an outlier, many of the clubs in Atlanta are air-dance no-touch clubs and in the few were touching is allowed IME it's pretty hit or miss - Follies high mileage full 2-way contact dances is the only one of its kind in ATL and pretty-much the only game in town mileage-wise thus the club is either full if not SRO packed on pretty-much every dayshift - thus Follies does not necessarily suffer from a "small" dayshift crowd as most clubs so there *is* a lot of $$$ coming in the door for the dayshift dancers and IME the dayshift crowd is more of the hardcore SC crowd going there to spend on the girls vs just hangout and party - Follies nightshift may have even bigger crowds but I don't think it is necessarily more lucrative for the dancers - IME w/ black clubs the nightshift can often be treated more like a nightclub w/ custies there more to socialize w/ their friends drinking, smoking, dancing to the music, etc - plus I've seen more female custies at night at Follies and IME rarely do I see them spending on dancers.

Not saying dances or VIPs are not sold on nightshift at Follies, but IME they seem to be sold at a significantly higher clip and more easily on Follies dayshift and why in the Follies case its dayshift may be the preferred and more lucrative one for the dancers.

I face a similar conundrum as the OP.

As mostly a black club goer, I avoid the nightshifts b/c the clubs get packed and the vibe is different w/ IME many of the custies there to party vs partaking in the dancers - thus the club gets packed w/ spectators and it often gets more of a hip-hop party vibe w/ the DJs often cutting the songs up to impress/"entertain" the party-going nightshift crowd and IMO the club has no incentive to do it differently since most of the crowd is not there to partake in dances thus cut-songs does not bother/impact them - IME a lot of the spending on dancers I see at night in the black clubs is often mostly a few custies rain-making, or tipping $1s as the dancer just shakes her ass in front of the custy. Thus as a hardcore dance getter I'm in the minority on nightshift thus it's harder for me to enjoy the club as a strip club since it turns into a glorified nightclub at night but still gets packed w/ custies that pay a high cover charge and buy drinks and bottles so the club is making $$$ but the dancers not as much IMO.

Thus like the OP, I often wonder particularly at the black spots I hit whether I'm considered by the club as a good customer since I'm there to spend on the dancers and not buy lots of drinks nor buy bottles/hookahs, nor pay so sit in VIP, and thus I feel I may be SOL and in many ways why I avoid nightshift at the black clubs I hit.

-->"Follies *is* as close to two clubs in one that one will see, traditionally mostly white dancers and clientele on dayshift and mostly black dancers and clientele at night and this leads to two bit different dynamics dayshift vs nightshift - for Follies in particular is not as much a dayshift vs nightshift difference as w/ most clubs, but more of a white-club vs black-club difference - and unlike most clubs, w/ Follies in particular it is my belief that the dancers may consider the dayshift the better and more lucrative one."

That is interesting, Papi! I've never heard of such a thing! So that's why OP was guessing there might not be more VIPs at night at Follies... very interesting

The influx of Cuban dancers at Follies may be a strong contributing factor - down here in Miami it used to be mostly the Miami-Dade county clubs that were Cuhlban dancer heavy - but in the last 5 years is when I've noticed the Cuban dancers take over most of the top clubs in not only Miami-Dade but also the 2 counties to the north where it seems most white dancers have a hard-time competing either b/c the Cuban girls are a lot more aggressive getting to custies or they undercut the white dancers and thus they are driven out - and it seems this Cuban dancer invasion is now affecting some other clubs in other states

Subraman - There is a manager/bouncer shift change at 8PM and the night crew is not as permissive as the day crew.

""Follies *is* as close to two clubs in one that one will see, traditionally mostly white dancers and clientele on dayshift and mostly black dancers and clientele at night and this leads to two bit different dynamics dayshift vs nightshift - for Follies in particular is not as much a dayshift vs nightshift difference as w/ most clubs, but more of a white-club vs black-club difference "

Same for Inner Room in recent years, though it sounds like the evening/night dynamic may be changing.

as I commented on the review: it's possible that when the management kicked out most of the drug dealers and pimps, the white girls stopped working there.

also, follies night shift has few VIPs. it's all about the attention the custie wants by 'making it rain' out on the floor.

the black clientele at night is all about conspicuous consumption.

Look at it this way, they may not be generating as much revenue in the day as they are at night (can be true for just about every club in the USA), but they are making more money in the afternoon than they would if they were closed.

This isn't rocket science, night shift vs day shift. Since the vast majority of the populace is on their leisure time during club night shift (say 8pm to close), it stands to reason that more potential customers = more potential $$. Given the profit margin for the club in drink/alcohol sales, naturally club management will do what they can to encourage increased sales. I see this in some clubs at night, especially weekend nights with the sale of rooms/booths per hour. Typical customers for this are mixed couples groups of 4 - 6 people who just want to hang out and party. Unfortunately, they hog several desired dancers for stretches of time. Remedy for that is to go off peak nights, or wrap up my visit before (or not too long after) midnight.

Dancers have a better handle on club demographics/crowds than we do, since their $$ depends on it. It seems like the bulk of the nightshift dancers arrive after 1030p, some first showing up after 1am. Free market forces at work here.

I wonder how much of an issue the dancer license may be having - many of these girls have things on their record from DUIs, to drug arrests, to possible prostitution charge from escorting, IDK what type of violations would disallow a dancer from getting her dance license though - I mention this b/c the license requirement was something that went into effect not too long ago.

Papi - Before the City of Chamblee annexed the property, The club was under the jurisdiction of DeKalb County and a license from them was required. There was a period for a little over a year after the annexation that Chamblee did not have a license requirement in effect . During that year+ I think that there were a lot of dancers giving it a shot since they didn't need a license. There was probably a little drop off after the license requirement went into effect. That license is only $100 compared to the $350 in Atlanta/Fulton county.

The only club in the area without a license requirement is Club Wax and they don't need one because they are a bikini club.

One thing I can tell you from being in business is economics drive all strategies but the key is always the bottom line, after saying that it must be remembered it is easier to get to the top than it is to stay there for a prolonged period of time. With that you need to remember what is going on now is a snapshot, things always change over time, Follies is probably in the right place and at the right time, eventually that will change just like everything, but it's ok because another will take its place that is inevitable.

Went to follies today. This subject came up with a dancer and another that joined the conversation. I will start a new discussion on their view on the subject, specific to Follies.

Looking forward to it. It has been interesting to see the varying opinions. As Papi so aptly put, Follies, at least in the past, has been a distinctly different club .....literally and figuratively night and day. That, for better or worse is changing.

My experience too at Follies. Fewer and fewer white girls. That sucks.

Also noticed seats open at 5:00PM, that would never have happened last year.

I've been going to Follies dayshift 1-2 times a week for the last couple years. I've always thought the club lacked a solid supply of quality white dancers so it's hard for me to say the last 6 months or so have been much different. I have no problem with Cuban/Latina dancers per se, but I don't care for the ones at Follies bc very few of them speak fluent English, and almost none of them are spinners (my preferred body type). I can't say I've noticed a significant difference in the type of clientele lately, but then again, I don't go there to scrutinize the customers.