Voter ID?

No. The risk of fraud is low and grossly overstated (less than 0.1%, if that, right?). And anything that reduces voter participation and voter turnout is bad for democracy. I vote no.

I have to show my id to check into a hotel or to write a check, but yet people can walk in off the street and vote for the leaders of our country without in any way demonstrating that they are qualified to vote, that they haven't already voted somewhere else, that they are who the claim to be, etc. it's insane. And for the liberals who oppose this, consider the possibility that the Russians might lead a fraudulent effort to get Trump ejected this year. Nothing is impossible in this election.

And beyond the obvious need to prevent voter fraud, why should a person be allowed to vote when they are so incredibly out of touch with society and government that they haven't even taken the most basic, simple step towards being a productive citizen by getting identification?

I love voter ID discussion because each sides stated reasons for/against it are such utter bullshit.

The right wants to limit a certain segment from voting. The left is terrified it won't be able to churn out extra votes at last minute. Yet both hide behind voter fraud and voting rights arguments.

Frankly I don't really like an ID requirement. Though I do think it's common sense to have some kind of check against voter fraud, regardless of how likely it is.

Voter ID laws have been designed with the intent to deny voting rights to minorities, students and the poor. These are the people who are least likely to have the required ID. The discriminatory intent is why a number of these laws have been struck down by the courts. For example, the Texas law:

https://www.texastribune.org/2016/07/20/…

Why can't minorities, students, and the poor get a drivers license or other government id? I know lots of people in all three categories and have yet to meet one so out of touch that they don't even have some form of id. And who are these people who are so disconnected that they have no id but yet they keep up with politics enough to make a rationale decision of who to vote for and they are motivated enough to take the time to vote? Such people exist only in the mind of liberals.

^
That sums it up nicely, well said John!

John. I get what you are saying. But still, why should it be a requirement for what is probably the most important of all rights and duties in democracy. As essential as air.

Renting a hotel or operating a car comes no where near close.

You'd really deny that to a citizen? That's a douche move, IMO.

Why would an American citizen not have an ID?

100% vote by mail.

I don't want to debate and argue it. I'll just leave it as a douche move, argued by people who are elite and privileged who can't fathom or appreciate how hard some people have it.

It thinly veiled to reduce voter turnout of voting class deemed to be liberal and not worthy of voting just because they lack proper papers. (WOPP).

If that's how y'all what to run this democracy. Fine. I yield to your power, insight, privilege, and intelligence. Clearly you know better than me.

I'm punching out of this thread.

"why should it be a requirement for what is probably the most important of all rights and duties in democracy"

Simple. The survival and flourishing of democracy could well depend upon it. Fraud undermines the system, making it unreliable and unworthy of respect. That's the nature of fraud -- it is a deceptive practice that takes advantage of those who are not diligent and on their guard. The system can't survive and be respected unless it is designed to reasonably assure the integrity of all votes.

Sure it'd be nice to be able to vote without the slightest effort. Just think your vote and it happens. But that's not how it works. You have to register. You have to (or at least should) learn some basic facts about the candidates beforehand. You have to make time to vote. You have to drive to the polling place. You have to wait in line. You have to tell them your name. You have to look at the ballot at least enough to punch something meaningful. Voting takes a little bit of effort, and that should include getting an id and showing it. This might be a slight hassle for a tiny segment of the population, but so are those other steps. If you care so little that you can't make that minimal effort, you should not vote.

My Russians comment was kind of a joke, but also serious. A corrupt person or organization who wanted to damage our democracy, or who very strongly wanted a particular candidate to win, has great opportunities under the current system to wreak havoc. Nobody has yet been caught doing this on a system wide basis, but human nature being what it is this is bound to happen. And if we don't stop it it'll become the norm.

Well damn. I answer his questions, post, and he's gone. But I feel a cold breeze. I bet that's Nina typing her response in between lap dances.

I'm a minority, a student and a poor person so talk about triple whammy (ok I'm not exactly poor but I have extremely high standards). SInce when did you need a "voter's id" to vote. What's wrong with your driver's license?

voters who consider themselves more intelligent than the common poor man are probably just as dumb as the poor man (and/or woman)

This is such an easy question, I'm not sure why there is even a debate

"Vote early and vote often" is a quote attributed to Al Capone in Chicago. So, is that the type of individual that opposes voter ID?

Dominic on ignore. Lol

Thank you JS for being so eloquent and stating most of my thoughts better than I could. Plus it saves me from typing with my thumb.

One additional point... There are voting laws that limit who is allowed to vote. To have those laws on the books and then deny an ability to enforce it is supporting lawlessness.

It is more than coincidence that those who fight the hardest against voter I.D. are the same people who encourage crime; want felons to vote; encourage illegals to come here and want illegals to vote. Voter fraud is part of the heart and soul of Chicago, from whence Obama came and where he learned politics. The simple fact is that the democratic system here had a literacy test when created and we could use that more than ever now.

The only segment the right wants to prohibit from voting through the implementation of voter identification requirements are those who are not registered to vote or those who are misrepresenting their identity while voting. It should be the same as filling out an I-9 One photo ID to prove who you are, one document to show that you are voting in the correct district/polling place.

Having to provide some type of ID to vote is just common sense.

If you can make the case that you should be required to provide ID to vote, can't that same argument be used about buying guns?

"why should it be a requirement for what is probably the most important of all rights and duties in democracy"

That is an opinion as to which right is the most important. Some would argue that the 2nd is the most important amendment because our enables one to defend their rights. Guess what? You need an ID to buy a gun.

If someone feels it is the most important right as contended above, you would think they would make sure they did what was necessary to ensure that right.

Also, it is a right that US citizens enjoy. Non-citizens are ineligible. It is just as important to prevent those who are not eligible to vote from voting if you want to ensure the integrity of the election.

"Voter ID laws have been designed with the intent to deny voting rights to minorities, ..."

Is there something in one's DNA that disables one from expending the minimal effort required to obtain an ID. Asians are a minority and they dont seem to have a problem with it.

Well it seems a need an ID for about everything, paying my own bill(s) and even depositing money in my own account. I need an ID to have a drink, buy tobacco, enter a casino, buy a firearm, apply for a job.

Dont you need an ID in most places to "register" to vote?

To me this is just a red herring you need some form of ID to register to vote and where I live you need to show your voter registration card before you are allowed to enter the voting booth. If you don't have that you are only given a provisional ballot which will be verified before your vote is counted. Really not much there, there.

@25

Remember that voting procedures are determined at the state level. This would be a federal requirement that all states woild have to adhere to. I'm all for state rights. I think all states should require IDs, but it's not for me to have input into another state's laws.

That is all well and good for state and local elections, but for federal elections I recognize the need for some consistency.

To flagooner- You may be right I personally think that you should need to show some sort of ID before voting but I still think it's a red herring because it seems to be legislating for a crime that has yet to occur in the modern era in this country.

@25

Seems we are on a similar page if not the same one. Sharp (or dull) minds think alike.

Monger minds, Florida, Monger Minds think alike.

*flagooner, god damned autocorrect

What does it say for the intellect of a group of people who don't have any ID? How does anyone get by without it?

It only goes to show that there is a real strong reason why some politicians prefer no ID to vote, because that is the intelligence that they cater to.

Government ID's are free, Government ID's are available to those who need them. If you are not engaged enough in the system to get an ID, then how are you engaged enough to make an intelligent, informed choice at the voting booth? If community groups are really concerned about this then get these people ID's and actually help them instead of feeding them the comfortable bedtime story that everything is he fault of the evil white Republican male.

I lack the ability to understand how this is even an issue and yes, voter fraud exists, it may be hard to prove but to say it doesn't exist means you don't want to see it.

In 2008 in Cincinnati OH and Gary IN there were documented cases of hundreds of cases of people voting more than once at multiple poling places. The Cincinnati case is the one I know the most about as I was working there at the time. In on instance a woman voted more than 2 dozen times for Obama and said that at least a dozen of her friends had done the same, plus she was a democratic campaign worker and spoke of other workers encouraging others to "quietly" do the same. Her logic was that she was voting for her acquaintances who did not feel like going out to vote this time. There is also the case of retirement home workers voting in place of residents, their excuse was "we thought they would want us to" and they were caught only because one of the resident had a child give them a ride to vote and found they had strangely already voted. In all these cases involving thousands of votes the fraudulent voters admitted for voting for Obama and none of which were prosecuted. The state of Indiana brought charges as did OH but DOJ dropped the charges because they were brought almost a year after the election. There were a couple case in Indiana of fraud in the Republican side involving a couple of hundred local votes total that were low enough to have not affected the election, local or otherwise, and strangely enough they were prosecuted by Holders DOJ.
Indiana now has a voter ID law and the state will provide free of charge a state issued picture ID free of charge and the state license branches are now open hours in the evenings and weekends so no one has an excuse to not be able to get on unless of course you are not a citizen. The only reason to not have voter ID laws is to allow non-citizens to vote. It used to be you had to register in advance of the election to be able to vote, now in some states you can just show up and vote and the pole workers are supposed to determine is you are registered later and remove your vote if you are not a citizen or are not properly registered. If you think that ever happens I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale!

It's been reported that a few million adults in this country don't have ID's.

Lot's of them are old, even more of them are old and black. A big part of the problem for these people is not having the documentation needed to get an ID. Many of these people can't simply head over to a DMV and hang out for a few hours and get an ID.

In this country if you're of age you generally are allowed to vote. We don't make to many distinctions in that regard and personally I think that's probably a good thing.

Now I already made my opinion clear but let's not pretend that this isn't an actual issue for SOME people or that because it's an issue they somehow don't deserve to get to vote.

I agree with the consensus of this thread so far (i.e., that voter ID laws don't constitute an undue burden and are desirable to minimize voter fraud) and for the reasons given. I just wanted to add this:

JS69, Dominic told you that he was "punching out of this thread", so you shouldn't be surprised that he had no response to the cogent points you made. It's the time-honored debate tactic of making some assertions, stating "That's all I have to say", and disappearing. Kind of a douche move, if you ask me :)

To MrDeuce-JS69 has used that tactic several times himself so I don't think Dominc has a problem in that respect other members have as well. I just think it's a easy way to agree to disagree without allowing it to degenerate into all out flame war I just might use it myself at some point because I am getting tired of people that don't respect the right of anyone to have an opinion that differs from theirs.

"Lot's of them are old, even more of them are old and black. "

How can there be more old and black people than old people? One is a subset of the other.

Wow. You guys are really dumb on the whole

I like how I slam dunked this thread and was ignored

100% vote by mail. Saves money. No ID needed. No fraud

Lots of people living on the margins do not have ID. It tends more to be minorities, young people, students, the poor.

Voter fraud is being hugely overstated. We have a hard enough time getting people to vote. And these ID laws are intended to influence election outcomes.

SJG

I think James San Diego is closest to the solution in my mind. Would voter fraud by mail be less than it currently is? I think your delusional and sit far on the left if you believe voter fraud is not a problem. Everywhere that voter fraud is present almost always ends up favoring the Democrats, not the conservatives.

I always imagined voter fraud as more of a local/state level solution than on the national level, though I'm sure it happens to some degree.

I have read that the vote by mail is popular in Oregon and Washington. I think a 3rd state does it but I'm being lazy and not going to google it.

problem not solution

Sjg almost all students have ID, you can't just walk around colleges without a school ID.

If you can't get an ID you didn't try, get one make some kind of effort so you can vote.

It is all politics. You put in a new voter ID law. Then your buddy institutes a new ID requirement law, Where you have to suck someones dick to get an ID. And that is how it really works. someone that has been transit for a few years isn't going to be able to lookup and find that Birth certificate, and maybe some other documents. you think they don't know this and are not spinning so you will think something else. Yeah, Technically it isn't lying, But at some point your are getting fucked.

Mean while the illegal (Undocumented) immigrant knows a friend that knows a friend and they can slip him a few extra $100.00 and get their ID and Drivers license no problem. And guess what he is going to work his ass of then go back to his country and retire rich. He could care less about voting, it is all apart of flying under the radar.

Unless the economy flips then he is up shit creek.

You need ID to fly, collect welfare, collect social security and on and on. The idea that it is a huge burden to get ID is pure bullshit. The ONLY people who are against voter ID are those who are progressives because felons and illegals vote Democrat. The idea that the young cannot get an idea is fucking stupid. Do young people really think their elders were born old and we never needed ID when we were young because we never were?

I had long response, with my own example of what I had to do to renew my license in the great state of GA, but decide to say fuck it. Voter ID is needed but changes the rules to get the ID is what I don't like. even more so after you already have the ID.

Keep watching FOX news bro.

Personally, I think the correct solution is to help people who don't have proper ID get it. I think people have a responsibility to provide some level of evidence you are you you say you are.

My grandmother never drove (i.e. no driver license) and as far as I know never had any other photo ID. But, there is no reason her family could not have taken an hour or two on a Saturday to help her down to the DMV or court house to get a gov sanctioned ID.

Hell... I'd even settle for a voter registration card that is more sophisticated than a piece of paper with you name on it. For crying out loud... it can't be that hard to add a hexadecimal code that can be matched up to state registration records.

Having a 'right' to vote doesn't mean it should be a free-for-all.

Right there with James, I live in Oregon, its been vote by mail for at least 10 + years, saves time saves money and is just better. So no. no ID

Voter fraud is vastly over estimated, vastly. Otherwise you would see the busts.

And lots of people live on the margins. Something like 10% of the students in our 23 campus CSU system are homeless.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me…

Its just another version of the old literacy tests and poll taxes, designed to keep eligible people from voting.

SJG

I'm with JimmyG! How does anyone get along in the world without an ID?

SJG is a NY Times, Jerry Brown, CNN mouthpiece. Whatever the left says so does he, and if you go against his views he will say you repeat what Fox News reports.

voter id may be necessary because @mikey will no doubt vote once for each of his aliases. fortunately half of his aliases support hillary and half support trump so it will be a wash at the presidential level

his aliases do skew republican for congressional and local elections. it is just that some of his aliases are never trump republicans whereas others are trump fans

So let me get this right -- since there have been no busts for voter fraud, it assures that voter fraud has never happened? Riiiiiiiight!?!?

And OJ didn't kill Nicole Brown Simpson or Ron Goldman, right??? Because 12 idiots said he didn't, right?

Reverse logic is not a proof.

How the hell could anyone know DEFINITIVELY if voter fraud is vastly over estimated -- vastly? The FACT is, none of us can know the truth, factually. Some suspect there has never been voter fraud. Some suspect it has happened early and often and everywhere.

The only logic conclusion we must reach is a system which assures everyone legally positioned to vote be given unencumbered opportunity to do so AND assures that NO ONE have the ability to cast MORE THAN one and one one vote. I see no possible way to assure both goals be reached without requiring some form of unique identification be presented at the time of voting.

There is a free form of identification that is nearly impossible to be falsified and is unique to every person on the planet -- a fingerprint. Watch the conspiracy theory, X_Files lefties go crazy at that suggestion.

http://www.activistpost.com/2016/03/watc…

http://www.anonews.co/massive-clinton-vo…



http://www.anonews.co/massive-clinton-vo…

Anybody ever heard of ACORN voter fraud??

https://pjmedia.com/blog/the-complete-gu…

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014…

I just don't understand this whole argument at all. You need to register to vote which is free. Once you register you're told where your polling station is for you to go vote when the time comes. When you get to your place to vote you tell them your name, whip out your ID or license and they check it against a print out to make sure you are indeed registered to vote at that location. It is probably the easiest, quickest and most painless government sponsored activity anyone can possibly do.

^ Sure, anyone with common sense knows that. But can you dumb it down some so a liberal will understand it? Maybe make it emotional instead of logical? LOL

I think you should have to own property in order to vote. Where I work we require I.D. for applications for Financial Aid. A fair number of people do not have I.D's. I have seen these people. They should not vote ,if they even know how to.

bvino - That is such an ignorant position that you should be denied the right to vote. My son is 39, single, in charge of computer security for a Fortune 500 company, drives a 2015 Subaru WRX limited edition and rents an apartment.

Technically, if you feel that way, it is a stupid position. It is however very well informed because this was the basis of the Federalist Papers. Ignorance is being uninformed. I suppose sarcasm is wasted on the literal.

so at the DNC there were fences/walls around the convention to keep people out. The delegates where required to show ID to vote. No one batted an eye.

Sorry, but the overwhelming majority says an ID is required . Libtards lose this one.

Not even debatable

There can't ever be any police which is designed to limit who votes. That would be completely against the principle of democracy.

Anti-fraud protections are another matter, but this country has a horrible history of trying to reduce voter turnout.

SJG

Wow! Some responses could be taken directly from CNN/MSNBC as a mouthpiece of those networks.

I like seeing the rationalizing intellect of those who twist the facts. They that are on that political podium have become delusional a long time ago, right?

SJG, obviously you're talking about The New Black Panther thugs that posed as "security", trying to discourage white voters the last two elections. You commie dummy.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/neGbKHyGuHU/hqdef…

Not sure what your meaning is JimG. But there have long been extreme efforts to limit voter access. This was why we had the 1965 Voting Rights Act. But today, the current supreme court has gutted most of it, so again the old problems are resurfacing.

Some people are opposed to the principle of Democracy.

SJG

X-Have Nots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDAs5Jgo…

This is a hilarious Blaxploitation movie. a guy is half black and half white, but passes for white. So with a black partner they con people something terrible, because people just rule out the possibility that these two could be working together.

Trick Baby (1972)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R7rOI2n…

SJG

9 Minutes Ago • SJG, obviously you're talking about The New Black Panther thugs that posed as "security", trying to discourage white voters the last two elections. You commie dummy.

i.ytimg.com/vi/neGbKHyGuHU/hqdefault.jpg

No, I don't go along with this "New Black Panther Party", and I know that they do unlawful things around polling places.

But mikeya02, you haven't been elected to anything, and still you try to make civil discourse impossible. I don't know if it is marijuana or what which makes you like this. I would never want to be anything like you.

SJG

No SJG, it's you not pot. People don't like someone who preaches and pretends to know everything. A universal feeling that you are blind to. Join the real world someday and try to enjoy life.

Shailynn called me a buzz kill. His comment was a gross understatement. Probably the only thing anyone has said about me on this board which was correct.

I deal with and live in the real world everyday. But this does not mean that everyone likes me, not by a long shot. I've gotten dozens of people fired from private and public employment, closed down businesses, even run people out of this country and put people into prison.

I do enjoy life, because I act, instead of finding ways to escape.

And so I do not in any way condone the overt or covert racism which is being expressed on this board, or this idea that the poor are somehow deserving to live in such a state or should be talked about in derisive terms.

SJG

SJG you are certainly more full of shit than all of juice's aliases combined

True ^^^