Is this really predatory?
rickdugan
Verified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
It is really predatory to try to turn a girl's financial needs to your advantage? I have always viewed it as a win-win: she gets what she needs and I get what I want.
Those of you who view this as predatory are either utterly ignorant or hypocrites. Why do you think a 20 something (or younger) year old girl sleeps with you? Do you REALLY believe that you are her first choice? Of course not. She is sleeping with you because of need or greed and, all too often, one begets the other. Each of you who squeals every time I talk about turning a pity hustle back around on a girl is either (1) utterly self deluded; or (2) operating under the notion that it is acceptable to sleep with her as long as you don't know the details as to why she is willing to do so, which makes you a hypocrite.
I once wrote a post on stripperweb about the differences I saw between girls on that board vs. girls In Real Club ("IRC"). I think I could so the same here with the discussion board characters vs. customers IRC. If all club goers acted like this bunch, there would probably be far fewer girls being paid for sex and definitely fewer clubs, since of course most of the clubs that rely upon alcohol sales for their existence (and there are a lot of those) would go belly up.
Those of you who view this as predatory are either utterly ignorant or hypocrites. Why do you think a 20 something (or younger) year old girl sleeps with you? Do you REALLY believe that you are her first choice? Of course not. She is sleeping with you because of need or greed and, all too often, one begets the other. Each of you who squeals every time I talk about turning a pity hustle back around on a girl is either (1) utterly self deluded; or (2) operating under the notion that it is acceptable to sleep with her as long as you don't know the details as to why she is willing to do so, which makes you a hypocrite.
I once wrote a post on stripperweb about the differences I saw between girls on that board vs. girls In Real Club ("IRC"). I think I could so the same here with the discussion board characters vs. customers IRC. If all club goers acted like this bunch, there would probably be far fewer girls being paid for sex and definitely fewer clubs, since of course most of the clubs that rely upon alcohol sales for their existence (and there are a lot of those) would go belly up.
39 comments
Predators take from others - and offer nothing of value in return. This is a mutually beneficial business relationship.
If a girl does OTC and you reach an agreement with her to do OTC, I see no problem. She's agreed to the terms and made a choice as a consenting adult.
However, if a girl's never done OTC before and you pressure her into doing OTC, when she really doesn't feel comfortable with it, then it seems a little predatory. She's still consenting, but it seems like she might regret it later.
Just my 2 cents.
If any of those aspects are missing, the deal doesn't get done.
How about turning this around and wondering how often we customers are preyed upon by ROBs? That probably happens as often, just not to very many of us here?
The way you described it, it's probably not predatory. But the perception of many posters on this board (whether real or not) is that you carefully choose the girl based upon several factors including financial situation, age, and dependence on drugs and/or alcohol. That could be wandering off into the weeds.
"A lot of us like to ignore the very real possibility that these ladies would really prefer not to be sucking and fucking us for money."
I am sure they don't. I don't wake up and dream of installing software. I would not do that for free. It isn't predatory that my clients try to get me to do it for a lower price. it is business.
you give her less than she needs
she charges you more than she needs or you can afford.
Nah, I just don't take advantage of desperate people down on their luck who normally wouldn't do something. If I see a homeless person I'm gonna give them some money and ask for nothing in return.
I don't think you can compare installing software (or any straight job) to sex acts.
I do think certain chunks of this board have White Knight, Captain Save-a-ho leanings at times. Some guys even seem to put certain layers on the money they pay their prostitutes to cover up the fact it's pay for play... paying her car payment, helping her with her mortgage, and she's just so thankful that she has sex with you! Totally different than negotiating a set price for a service. Riiiight.
I think a lot of guys here do chase that magical unicorn who doesn't normally do OTC but likes him enough to take his offer.
Ace point twentyfive!
The difference between what rickdugan usually posts and this post is that in this post he sounds like a reasonable guy saying "I like to look on the scratch and dent aisle when shopping because that's where you can find bargains."
But the reality is that he's obsessed with the scratch and dent aisle. Assuming that he presents himself accurately (and I'm skeptical of that), he spends an inordinate amount of time hoping merchandise falls over and gets a scratch so he can save some trivial amount of money.
The difference between a normal rickdugan post and this rickdugan post is that in most he sounds like a guy saying "I sure hope that my elderly aunt hurries up and dies so I can get my inheritance" and in this one he sounds like "isn't it wonderful that I've had a windfall because my aunt thought of me in her will."
One of those things is d-baggy. The other isn't.
Of course, rickdugan isn't going to see this. He's ignoring me after all. Or so he claims whenever he posts about me.
Have I turned pity hustles into earning opportunities, ESPECIALLY when I sensed some truth behind the hustle? Hell yes. Have I timed club visits for times when girls' cash needs were likely to be higher? You better believe it. Have I waited for girls who I really wanted, but who were initially reluctant to do OTC, to become more comfortable with me and to hit some moment when their need for cash outweighed their reluctance? You betcha - I have found some of my best low volume, hot as hell girl next door OTC this way.
You view this as predatory while I view this as opportunistic. The hypocrisy in your stance is that you'd happily fuck one of these girls under the same circumstances so long as you aren't confronted by the need and/or don't feel like you acted upon it. So in your world view (and I lump CP in this), it's ok if you stumble upon a girl in need and fuck her for money, but only if you can stick your head in the sand about why she might be doing it.
But let's take it a step further. Would it be better for her to not pay her rent, buy groceries, get her utilities turned back on, buy X-mas presents, etc., because I happen to know what she's going to use the money for? What a twisted view some people have.
But there may be a difference in philosophies at play here. I assume that strippers, like other grown adults, can make adult decisions as to the greater and lesser evils in what they do. I guess you guys don't, which is why you would rather see a girl unable to buy food for her family than become "prey" to some dastardly guy who has the audacity of making an offer that may require her to have sex in order to earn what she needs.
Just seems like Dugan's last two threads were about situations that most of us would find depressing or downright repulsive. But Dugan appears to find the same situations exciting, something to brag about, something to post about.
Whether that's predatory or not is secondary.
I guarantee you I don't have any intentions of fucking any of your drug addicted desperate whores, the type that you brag about, as a matter of fact I run the other way when those types come near me, I believe in the old adage that says if you roll in the gutter with dogs you are sure to get fleas.
Most of the girls I party with don't ask me for money, when we go out of the strip clubs, we actually like one another. I have met many of them by being a good and generous customer and yes I have helped out a friend or two or even three but I have helped them out of an interest in their well being, and when I help a friend I don't demand anything in return, so I know that when I have my little adventures, it is more often than not ,at their home unless we have traveled out of town together.
The girls I party with in the strip clubs I often tip well and if I invite them to go someplace other than a strip club I treat them just like I would any other woman that I am dating. I would be willing to bet that you couldn't even get a dog to play with you without some treats, you seem to have mistaken money for personality, too bad for you.
Twenty, you seem to need to work the arrangements in other ways in order to be ok with it, such as paying the girls a lot ITC and "helping out." Whatever you need to make yourself feel better dude, but don't delude yourself about what it is. And my OTC targets are among the hottest girls in their respective clubs. I don't post about much of what I do here as it is ordinary - I post about the weird or exceptions to the rules. The sad reality is that, try as one might, drugs and other issues are so prevalent in the clubs now that these issues cannot always be avoided - yet another thing that is not such a bad topic on a site for club hounds.
Nobody seems more emotional about it than you, why are you trying to defend the indefensible, I feel just fine about my life and the people that are part of it. you are the one that seems to be all hot and bothered so much so, that you feel compelled to tell complete strangers on the internet, why the whole wide world is wrong, but you are right, not bragging Ha not much, that's stupid. I personally don't give a fuck what you do or how you do it, but carrying on like the Jehovah's witness that just rung my doorbell is idiotic.
I don't need to do anything to be ok with my arrangements with women I seem to do just fine with the ones I like. I think the girls I date are beautiful and sexy but I have no desire to date females 25 or 30 younger than I don't find them attractive once they open their mouths, I like grown women I don't want to date children, but you aren't alone with that, and if that was all that there was going on most here would be leaving you alone
I just avoid your, so called "hottest girls in their respective clubs", especially the ones that display signs of substance abuse and instability although how you can call a drug addicted prostitute, hot is beyond me, just shows that beauty is in the beholder. No wonder you are worried about getting pulled over by L.E., between your drinking and driving and traveling with drug addicted girls who aren't reliable and have warrants out for them, tells me you aint getting the cream of the crop, no matter how you spin it, they are just skanky hos buddy, and I wouldn't fuck them with your dick.
Looks like my previous post struck a nerve.
If you weren't so painfully lacking in self-awareness, I'd almost believe you asked this question rhetorically. Of course it is.
Here's Merriam Webster's definition of predatory:
b : inclined or intended to injure or exploit others for personal gain or profit
So yes, what you do, BY YOUR OWN WORDS, is the exact definition of predatory.
As twentyfive has eloquently pointed out, we don't give a shit that you do this Rick, just stop pretending you're actually doing these girls a favor by getting them too drunk to think correctly and then fucking them where ever it's convenient. The only hypocrite in this post is you.
CP
Upon further examination, though, I see that one definition of "predatory" is "characterized by plunder, pillage, or exploitation." Looking further into "exploitation" definition: "The use of manipulation of another person for one's own advantage." OP's opening sentence says it all.
OK, everyone here who has ever surfed the internet for the best possible deal is seeking the best advantage for
ourself. Still I don't buy into the idea that knowingly seeking out and utilizing someone elses misfortunes for ones own advantage (versus shopping for best car, hotel, or airfare deals) to be an example of capitalism to parade around.
But this issue is clearly an emotional one. I view the squeals in the last few threads to be a lot of emotional and hypocritical crap, for all the reasons previously stated. I believe that if I treat her kindly and pay her a fair market rate that I am not a predator as the benefits from the transaction are mutual. I also believe that she is a grown adult able to make her own decisions and decide what is best for her. Some of you disagree and others agree and I don't see a consensus forming anytime soon.
Well twenty, if posting about negotiating OTC with strippers on a strip club discussion board offends your dignity and delicate sensitivities, then just don't read the fucking thread.
So going under with the money would be predatory. But also, if you and she are not really copasetic, then that would be excessive.
But say if the girl calls up and reminds you that she needs rent money, then doing a nice session at the established friend price is not predatory.
For myself, doing lots of sessions with AMP girls, this end of month or high financial need issues has never been there. For one thing, those girls tend to be responsible with their money.
So if you are dealing with girls who are not responsible, then you are contributing to their destructive lifestyle.
SJG