End of dance mileage ?

What I am going to always want is GFE, and probably GFE sex

I've experienced this, but it was in the form of withholding pulling her shirt up for a topless dance, until the very end.

Again, don't let girls sell you dances. Engage with them in the front room, where you can lead it.

SJG

This used to happen a lot for me. Mainly at low mileage places where the girl will grab my cock over clothes near the end of the song to get another dance.

Papi, you should be giving us the deeds on this sort of stuff, not asking this. Girls like that usually are the very tight laced, rule enforcers that will do NOTHING! If you don't have a method of telling by conversation or any action before a dance, then don't get a second dance. Always remember, if they don't turn up till last minute, if at all, then they are not the ball busters your looking for.

Yeah. It's happened to me too but it is an uncertain proposition. Some dancers do it to entice you buy another dance and then go right back to the same old low mileage but others increase the mileage as you buy more dances. So win a few, lose a few.

Again, don't let girls sell you dances. Engage with them in the front room, where you can lead it. Save back rooms until the girl has really opened up to you GFE wise, and so the room is necessary because you cock is going to come out and go into action.

Front room! This solves all such problems. If girl #1 doesn't want to play and instead wants to try and sell dances, send her on her way. More likely than not, another, seeing what has happened, will jump in to take her place.

I've had to spend lots of money to learn this.

SJG

But at least I did learn it!

SJG

Last time I was at Hi Liter I had a dancer who carried the save the good stuff til the end of the song strategy to an extreme.

This gorgeous girl gives me a mostly air dance with her top on. I ask her to bring out the tits. She ignores me, then towards the end of the song the top comes off and she starts to grind.

Second song starts. Normally I'd say get lost but she was a 9.5, and I was high, which is a dangerous combination for my wallet. So I grab tits and figure we'll keep going. She pulls away and says no tit holding until the end of the second song.

Her strategy is to save the good elements of a lap dance until the end of each song so you must do 3-4 songs until it's a real high mileage dance.

I stand up, give her $10 for one song, and tell her to leave immediately. Been a long time since a ROB pissed me off like this. She says the second song has already started (true, maybe 15 seconds ago) so I have to pay for it. I tell the bitch to bring a bouncer over and we will discuss it. Bu she will never see more than $10 from me. She leaves, never to be seen by me again.

She won't last a week at Hi Liter which is a shame cause with good service she could make a fortune.

Pretty standard strategy, the SW girls exchange it as a "hustle 101" type tip. Worked on me the first couple years I started SCing, but eventually even a dummy wises up, and now I have no patience for it

I have had semi regular dancers who knew I wasnt going to buy more than two dances do the opposite, where after confirming dance #2 was my last, turned up the grind to encourage an LDK.

Because I have $10 clipped songs, I'm fine if the first song is tame but builds up.

Front room, just hand her money and see if she will play. If not send her on her way. But if so, then you can lead it and there is no timing by songs.

Smart girls know that they make more money this way, as they can be more aggressive and there is no down time.

SJG

...and silly me assumed that I was being super smart and sneaky with my dance tactics. Sigh.

Dancer95, we have never gotten any dancer takes on my view here. Do you see what I mean that it goes better if a guy engages with the girl in the front room, handing her money as appropriate, and just getting friendly and getting to know each other, and hopefully letting it get GFE.

Do you agree that dance booths and timing by songs is a gimmick and that it is really just a way for a dancer to keep creeps under control, and that it is also a way for the house to get more money. Lap dancing originally meant lap sitting.

And do you agree that dancers who learn to engage in the front room can be more aggressive and end up with more money because there is no house cut and no down time? They just go from one guy to another. Most guys will give them something.

Do agree with my view that 'extras' and a guy letting a dancer "sell dances" to him is a chumps game?

SJG

Knock on Wood
https://youtu.be/uMI2Cub3Tfs?t=1h28m4s

What exactly do you mean by "getting friendly" in a front room?

"getting friendly" means what ever you want it to mean, it means getting what one goes to the strip club for.

At the underground table dancing shows which ran in San Jose's Mexican Bars it sometimes meant a girl who sticks her titties into you face. Sometimes it meant a girl who gets real close to your face and makes like she is having multiple orgasms.

But sometimes girls wanted to set up OTC and so they would go over the established limits.

Mexican girls seem to like to get their arm around a guy's neck and start nuzzling. It takes very little to go from there to open tongue kissing, or even full DFKing. This is how it was in these SJ Bars. But even more, this is how it has been reported on for Tijuana.

Of course some of this depends on where you want this to end. If the objective is FS in the VIP room, then I maintain that it is best to get a full on makeout session going in the front room, going as far as DFK w/ FOV or FIV.

Now of course one has to take it slow and allow emotional engagement to build. But this is how it is favored in TJ. Our local expert Jestrite50 does it this way. For me it got like this in pre-Deja Vu San Francisco. And it is more often than not like this for me in AMPs, especially in San Francisco. And then on Blackstripclubs.net they explained in review after review that in the most extreme places, the girls drive it this way. They sit on your lap, without asking, and they start licking your neck and nibbling on your ear. You have little choice but to start making out with them.

And then numerous TUSCL members have affirmed that it is also like this in the mixed race dives.

And then there are numerous accounts, plus videos, of Tijuana.

It makes sense, if the girl wants action and she is in competition with other girls, that is the way to make it happen.

Now I understand that this may be way way beyond any of the places you would ever dance in. I'm not asking about that. I'm asking for your view of the principles involved.

1. If you want the girl to open up and get GFE with you, instead of doing 'extras', make it happen with her in the front room. No front room, GFE, no back room. Feed her money as appropriate, and also avoid any house cut.

2. Girls who climb on guys in the front room can extract more money than those who say, "wanna dance". They get something from most guys, and there is no down time. They don't have to even pay attention to songs.

3. So letting girls sell you dances is a chumps game. Once you get into the booth, the girl is in full control, there is very little give and take. Most of the time she will act without feeling anything.

4. Girls who try to sell dances have to deal with lots and lots of turn downs.

And again I acknowledge fully that this may be way beyond what many girls want to do. I respect this fully. But also see that there are all sorts of places where this is being done regularly.

SJG

If she does that shit, it will be one and done.

I think that alot of "wanna dance" and heavy hustle types tend to do that shit. Also the dancers that either can't or won't cultivate regulars also do this because she won't get much repeat business after that.

^ What ranukam said. I'm a near-guarantee to get at least two dances from every girl because I don't think I can really get an accurate read on her dancing from one song, but that's the one thing (other than simple amount of air dancing) I look for. If I only get one song from a girl, she did something wrong.

I see it a lot. Its a mixed bag; sometimes it just a low mileage first dance with new customers, sometimes the girl just gradually increases mileage song by song, and sometimes she is a ROB trying to trick me into a 2nd dance. I'd say all three cases are equally as common.

I bite sometimes, and I've done what JS mentioned a few times too. If she goes back to no mileage 10 seconds into the 2nd dance I'll call it and stop the presses. I've had some girls get pretty upset, but not once has one called over a bouncer.

Once, at Tootsies of all places, another dancer saw the tail end of our exchange and came over giggling uncontrollably. She told me that girl has made a scene and had the bouncer come over to collect more than a few times, which they did. But after the last time she did it the bouncer told the manager who went off on her and told her the next time someone complains about paying for a dance they didn't get she's gone. The ROB saw her laughing and just got even more pissed and stomped off into the bathroom.

Yeah. Usually done after song 2 and then it's no more $ for her on next visits. Poor long term strategy. Less but more consistent contact may keep me interested until I figure I've reached her contact limit or someone new or a sure thing becomes available.

@SJG, well, idk if it counts for front room friendliness but I usually sit on guy's lap and run fingers through his hair. But I won't make out with him or whatever to sell a room/dance, lol. And I would get fired for that, anyway.

I worked at the club where girls didn't try to sell dances - just were jumping on dudes to dance for them. Imo, it's bs. Sometimes guys would throw money on them but mostly they would give them a couple of bucks per minute - too much work for peanuts, imo. I prefer to approach custie and build rapport with him.

Dancer95, thank for responding and telling the truth. No females, let alone dancers, have ever chimed in on this issue. And I'm not expecting you to describe what exactly you do at your club, or to consider working at one where things are wilder.

My point is basically that it is a chumps game to let girls sell you dances.

So to avoid this, you can feed them money, even at the full booth dance rate, in the front room. And as there shouldn't be a house cut, it should be better.

Some clubs may have front room rules, but then they may not always be enforced. At some clubs it is very competitive. And though there aren't clubs like this where I live, they definitely exist in other parts of the country, and in Mexico. At some clubs the girls jump on a guy's lap because they want to get the back room session, and maybe front room money too. So often the girls do whatever it takes to get results. This is better than letting a girl sell dances, because to do that she does not have to lower her psychological defenses. Where as if she really wants to make it happen, she knows that she just has to open herself up to the guy, and do what he wants her to do.

Not every girl can do this, but there are some who are really great, and they are loved for this reason. I encountered a whole group of them in this underground circuit which operated in some of San Jose's Mexican bars.

The law is of course the same in the front room as in the back room, though it is much harder to enforce in the back room.

Most of the issues guys have about booth dances are where the girl doesn't really do what they wanted, or when wires just get crossed.

So what I say, is keep it in the front room. That way the guy can lead it, and if it is not going to work, just politely send her on her way.

And then likewise, at the most aggressive places, the girls just go from one guy to the next. They work each guy for what he is worth, and then move on. They don't do any asking, they just do. They try to get money, and most always they do rake in lots of it. And they also try to get back room action and bigger money. But the back room is saved until it is really necessary, like when the guy's pants are going to come down. Doing it this way, the girls make much more money, as there is no down time and less of a house cut. Dancers experienced in wild and wooly environments are emphatic about this.

So just talking here in the abstract, not about yourself or your club, do you agree with my contention that from a guy's point of view, it is better to try and get friendly with a girl in the front room, feeding her money, and seeing what can happen, before even considering the back room.? And then, that it is better to save the back room until it is really necessary, like when the guy's pants are going to come down?

The extreme examples of this are first of all Tijuana. The girls make it hard to do anything other than makeout with them in the front room. And then in the most extreme of black dives, it works very similar. And then TUSCL members have made it emphatically clear that in the mixed race dives it goes the same way. And we have one of the most respected TUSCL members, Jestrite50, who insists that this is the only way he does it. No front room make out session, then no back room.

In pre-Deja Vu San Francisco there were very few front room rules. So you would find the full range of what dancers would do.

WIth Deja Vu, they figured out how to turn the clubs into chump processing factories, so there was no front room touching. So what happened in the booths and back rooms was usually very un-GFE.

Now post Deja Vu, we will see. The potential is definitely there.

Girls do what they want. At T's on Old Oakland Road in San Jose ( now closed ) it was supposed to be zero touching. But some known high roller was there and two girls sat him down in the collective VIP room, between the two of them, and they were taking turns DFKing him. I presume that he eventually left with one or both of them.

And then at the Sunnyvale no touching clubs, it still sometimes happens that a girl wants to set up a that night OTC, and so she will start DFKing guys, and without holding back at all too. Sometimes girls are drunk. Sometimes they are mad at the boss. Sometimes they just get into a mischievous mood.

And then of course in AMPs, when girls have wanted to set me up for escort sessions at their homes, they poured on the DFKing. They did not hold back at all, and this is not at all the norm in AMPs.

SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…

Amy Winehouse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmV6_oc2…