Always wanting more money, does it have to be like this?
san_jose_guy
money was invented for handing to women, but buying dances is a chump's game
No, I'm not talking about strippers. I'm talking about what I believe drives most of us to strippers, wives.
GF's can't do this as they don't have a guy on that kind of a choke collar. But wives do it, nothing is ever good enough for them. They are always comparing with their friends. And then of course the more they have, then the more their friends will have.
I know that there are lots of guys here who have never been married. Most I think are young, but not all. But I still believe that most of these guys have turned to strippers because they know, that despite how money grubbing strippers seem to be, it is nothing compared to what wives do.
As I see it, the real issue is that they don't support a guy's career. They pretend to, before they are married. But afterwards their real views come out, that it is all just about money. And so the actual content is meaningless, and then the money is always judged inadequate. So they are using their power to wage wars of emotional terrorism in order to nullify a guy's legitimacy and to force him into thinking in the same ways that they do.
Does it have to always be like this?
I don't think so. But because it is in the vast majority of cases, an extreme solution is needed, even going beyond dealing with strippers.
SJG
GF's can't do this as they don't have a guy on that kind of a choke collar. But wives do it, nothing is ever good enough for them. They are always comparing with their friends. And then of course the more they have, then the more their friends will have.
I know that there are lots of guys here who have never been married. Most I think are young, but not all. But I still believe that most of these guys have turned to strippers because they know, that despite how money grubbing strippers seem to be, it is nothing compared to what wives do.
As I see it, the real issue is that they don't support a guy's career. They pretend to, before they are married. But afterwards their real views come out, that it is all just about money. And so the actual content is meaningless, and then the money is always judged inadequate. So they are using their power to wage wars of emotional terrorism in order to nullify a guy's legitimacy and to force him into thinking in the same ways that they do.
Does it have to always be like this?
I don't think so. But because it is in the vast majority of cases, an extreme solution is needed, even going beyond dealing with strippers.
SJG
Got something to say?
Start your own discussion
35 comments
Those of us who are married (or now divorced) can relate.
Shailynn: $200 says its a prototype Asian Fem-Bot. lol.
This week I'm meeting the DS. I will pay her only a small fraction of what I pay my wife. But she will meet all of the needs that my wife is supposed to meet but has not for too many years to count. The DS does everything I want. The wife does everything I hate. But I pay the wife far more. SJG is right -- The greed of my strippers can't hold a candle compared to the greed of my wife.
OMG... I actually was able to read through a whole SJG's post without losing interest... Or falling asleep.
And here's the really scary part: I I I actually found myself AGREEING with him!!!!!
There must be a hole in the space time continuum.....
(Has anybody seen Michael J Fox lately???)
Hmmmm....
The problem ensues then when one his hitched to a spouse who decided that that career is not adequate, and so comes to believe in alternate income sources. Often these are get rich quick schemes, pyramid scams, and such. The point is, the only purpose these serve is getting money. So the original dignity of a selected career is lost.
One has to be able to build a career and be proud of the actual work one does and the expertise which is used. When this is being denigrated, then all is already lost. When it is coming from a spouse, I say that there is no legal penalty too severe to hit that spouse with.
SJG
Yes, in my case the wife is only about money. Nothing else matters to her about me except money.
Remember, I select them, they don't select me. So already my selecting has an influence on them. But second, I don't rush the situation, I play them out a little bit. This also has the effect of softening them up because they can see that I do indeed want to know them some and that I am to a degree screening them.
But once you are married to a girl, it seems like her bad side comes out. Or more likely, it is just that she proves unable to resist forces of social conformity. So it ends up that she turns into an enemy.
SJG
and you pay hookers because you just can’t get enough of your wife?
i know it's been said before but i'll say it again, you're an idiot
As a woman ages she loses her beauty. Many women try to fight this by flushing more and more cash down the tubes in a losing battle. Or, they may turn to outward signs of material wealth to compensate.
Women are conditioned far more than men that if you're unhappy, you can spend money to fill that hole in your soul. Obviously there are men who drive midlife crisis mobiles or flashy watches too. But for women it's this constant need.
On top of that, women feel far more pressure when it comes to throwing money at the kids. If her friends kids are in baseball, piano lessons, swim lessons, etc, well, she better keep up or be looked down on.
I think some of what SJG posted makes sense and is universal, and some is very specific to his situation. Marrying a woman with a real career of her own does help the problem he stated a lot. Some women are far more materialistic and greedy than others. His ex wife seems quite greedy the way he portrays her.
So attempts to live via voluntary simplicity almost always forego relations with women.
But does it really have to be this way? Are women really just completely outer directed conformists? And then also, do they ever understand that the content of a guy's career is what matters, not the paycheck?
If they have their own careers, and it is only a minority which have serious careers, the rest are just dabbling, does that change it. Often a woman's so called career is just a way of getting a paycheck. For a woman this is usually all it takes to make her happy about it, or at least willing to go along with it. She does not have anymore of herself invested in it. And so of course she does not support a guy who has a real career because she does not understand that.
Yes, women get used to the idea of money being spent on them and being able to live high on the hog. How much of our economy is like that, stuff to spend money on to make women happy?
I say, while fighting this head on does not work, there do have to be other ways.
H and M clothes?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%26M
And just for the record I've not said anything at all about my ex-wife. And here I've not said what it was like to be married to her. I know better than to talk about such things.
SJG
I think women who just want the cash and bragging rights with their friends are women in very unhappy marriages. The friends are a problem too.
It may be though that marriage is usually the shits, for both men and women. So this is why they turn to these extrinsics.
So as I see it, you never want any entanglements with any woman who does not actually support the content of your chosen career. But marriage still may be an undesirable direction to go in.
SJG
In my case wife #1 is French and still living in the bungalow on the beach that we built and where she raised our son. She and I dropped out and she has never had any interest in money. Wife #2 is Thai and after I built her a house her only interest is in having as many children as she is able an endeavor which I am happy to oblige. Wife #3 is my sweet young Kiwi who brought more money to the marriage than I. In addition to children she desires nothing more than companionship through the rest of her life. None of the 3 care to enquire about the details of my chosen profession much less influence my choices.
I frequent bar girls and prostitutes for the same reason as I do airline stewardesses, secretaries and any random crumpet I happen upon. I love women and it isn’t fair that I should deny them of my attentions.
He gets into the taxi, and the cabbie says: "Perfect timing. You're just like Stevie"
"Who?" says the man.
"Stevie Jones. He was a guy who did everything right. Like my taxi being vacant during a rainstorm. It would have happened for Stevie."
"Well no one is perfect. There are always a few clouds over everybody," the man replies.
"Not Stevie," says the cabbie. "He was a terrific athlete. He could have turned professional at golf or tennis and he danced like a West End star. He was handsome and sophisticated, more than George Clooney. He had a better body than Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime. He was something!"
"Somehow Stevie just new exactly how to make women happy," the cabbie continues.
"He had a memory like a computer. Could remember everybody's birthday. He could fix anything. Not like me. I change a fuse and the whole street blacks out."
"No wonder you remember him!" says the man.
"I never actually met Stevie," admits the cabbie.
"Then how do you know so much about him?" asks the man.
"After he died I married his wife."
how much did she cost when you ordered her and how much was the return postage? we need to talk about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtzxwuVG…
Wives are FAR more expensive than any stripper or take-out ever was or ever will be.
I'm talking about when a marriage is at its best, when both parties believe that it will continue and when, at least in their own understanding, both parties are doing their best to make it work.
pikey_bastard wrote,
"...the probability is higher that you chose poorly or more likely that she chose poorly."
I try to look at it from as many perspectives as possible, because I need to understand it because it gets to my own integrity. I didn't get married intending that it would only last for a little while, or that I would go on to have a second and a third wife.
We lived in a very high cost of living area. You can't just go out and build a bungalow on the beach, or anything like that. New constructions are tightly regulated and land has never in the last 30 years gone for less than $4Meg per acre.
To live in such a world people have to make intelligent and conscientious choices. This is all the more true as many of us measure our career success in terms which go beyond money.
But then there are outside social pressures. As a man, I can tell people to fuck off if I think they are trying to invalidate me. But it doesn't seem like women are able to do this. They give in to people challenging them and they go on to try and justify themselves.
So it comes down to things like where you live, what kind of a car do you drive, and then all the other things that money can buy. These friends of the wife are idiots, and in the end I made sure I told some of them so.
But then it also gets into the differences between regular pay employment versus variable pay employment. Some people get paid on commission, or get overtime, or somehow are getting a cut. Some other people are getting money or tips that are under the table and hence can be hidden from taxation.
I know a man who is a licensed architect. He runs his own practice and has been doing it for over 20 years, and is well regarded. But it still works out that his brother who is a dry plumber makes more money. The brother works on new constructions only and so he never has to touch water or deal with stuff rusted or corroded. The architect has to pay the expenses of running his office, including maintaining a small staff. The plumber can usually get overtime. It works out that the plumber makes more money.
Lots of people can make more money than those who get regular pay.
Some people may not actually make more money, but they can still talk as though they are expecting to, when their pay is variable. Of course when they talk like that they are surrendering any other ambitions or goals they might have had, and they are making it be all about money.
But then some of us have substantial goals which go beyond money.
So marriage has got to be a partnership. Like anything else, it involves a commitment. There will be things which are being given up. But there will also be benefits.
But the problem that I am seeing is that far too often, women renege on the partnership. They want power, the power to invalidate. Or they submit to pressure from their friends to put on a show. When they do this, of course it does reflect right back into the marriage.
So when this partnership disintegrates, then it becomes a nightmare where no matter what you do, you are just making it worse.
It shouldn't have to be this way, but so very often it is.
Now of course the woman will act like she I doing everything possible to make the marriage work. She may even believe this. But in fact she is making it completely impossible. She is making it into a death trap.
I know that women are not really this stupid, at least not in every situation. But still very often they are stupid and destructive without understanding it.
In my observation most dysfunctional families come down to the two partners not being able to accept responsibility for the fact that they have made choices and that they continue to need to be making choices.
Marriage has got to be one of the worst things ever invented.
I've mentioned before of a recent Pentecostal case where a husband and wife were not accepting responsibilities for the choices they had made, but instead the husband was sexually fondling the daughters and the wife was and still is helping to cover for him. Their church encourages this. I helped get the husband put into San Quentin.
SJG
If your marriage failed because your wife did not nurture enough or squirt out offspring then you can blame her. If OTOH she wanted more money than you provided, then the failure is yours. As a man if you can’t adequately protect or provide then by nature the female will seek out a mate that is able to do a better job. This is innate and it doesn’t matter if the female has any better prospects or not. Your failure as a man is something that both nature and your wife abhor.
It is that simple.
If people are going to live in this world, then they need to make choices, deliberate choices.
If I or my wife or anybody else wanted to denigrate someone, then of course there are ways to do it. But on the otherhand, as it could be done to anyone, it is meaningless.
Fact is, for a relationship to work the parties both have to be willing to make shared choices and to stand behind them.
Very few people, men or women, devote their lives to making money. Very few people devote their lives to making babies either. The world would be much worse off if this was not true.
I dumped my wife. But I did it because she was not allowing the marriage to work, and so it became a death trap. More money or more babies would not have improved any of this one iota. It would have made things much worse.
What was missing was partnership. I always held out the olive branch, up until the last day, so that if she was finally willing to get real, then repair and rebuilding could begin. But she was not. She still seems only to partly understand what was going on.
The willingness to make commitments and try to make them work gets to a person's personal integrity.
My wife had pretended to be one thing, but once cast into that role of being married, she became much more susceptible to outside pressure.
She had much less experience dealing with her own issues. Marriage forces one to face family of origin stuff, and she was completely unwilling to do this.
SJG
But what happened to prenuptial agreements?
As many of them ended up in marriages which lasted less than 3 months, the rules for divorce did come up, as did the concept of prenuptial agreements.
I always told my wife that there are only 3 types of people who get married without them:
1. Idiots
2. Destitute
3. Religious Fundamentalists
My meaning was simply that marriage stinks, it is bad for everyone, and it should be abolished.
Most women, the vast majority, are not prepared to support themselves in a style they would be satisfied with via their own wage income. I am not saying that this is wrong, but I do notice that it differs from the rhetoric which most of them put out. Most of them do not understand what it takes to build a career, they only understand jobs.
I did not mind at all when I was the only one brining home pay, and I would have been happy to have had it stay that way. Actually, my wife had been in school. It was much better then.
But what was really wrong about it all was that she did not support the kind of career which I was trying to build and maintain, one based on expanding expertise and one where success was not measured in money, but was measured in intellectual mastery.
If you are going to measure yourself via money, that is boundless and so it will always be a bottomless pit. She, not have the maturity needed to make choices and stand with them, always tried to turn it into a bottomless pit of subordination.
Fact is, she could have lived with very little. But when invidious comparison comes into play, then there is no such thing as enough. She did not want to be a partner, who shares in the risks and the benefits. She wanted to be a detached god like figure, with the ability to approve or condemn.
She didn't leave me and never would have. But I had her removed because she was not a partner and all she was ever going to do was pump poison day after day after day.
SJG
I disagree. I have 3 wives who stand unquestioning beside me content to be part of my life, a life I find richly rewarding. You OTOH have a bitterness that goes well beyond your failed marriage and is palpable in your writings betraying a vapid, vacuous existence.
You vitually called your wife an idiot to her face and then accuse her of not wanting to be a partner with you. That should be the starting point for anyone who wants to comprehend how you could possibly ramble on about absolute rot the way you do.
Pre nups are useless for those without wealth when you get married in most states, as all.wealtg accumulated after is considered common property.
Now we don't judge anyone here because we don't know any of you. But the people we know we just have to shake our heads in disbelief. It usually ends with us looking at each other both saying "WTF are they thinking?" This happens on a weekly basis. We get to talking about some of the outside the norm "lifestyle" things we do and then we have to ask how do we always end up being the stable normal married couple? I guess I could go on but I'm sure no one wants to hear me ramble.
Saying all this it seems it pisses certain people off on this forum that we do everything together as a loving couple and talk about it. I feel sorry for them.
And before JS asks, no this isn't directed at him....lol
" ... You OTOH have a bitterness that goes well beyond your failed marriage and is palpable in your writings betraying a vapid, vacuous existence.
You vitually called your wife an idiot to her face and then accuse her of not wanting to be a partner with you. ..."
Yes, my wife was not willing to be a partner. I mean sure she liked the idea of having the social status of being married, and of being able to tell her friends and family about it.
@Seaboardrr wrote, "All I can say is everyone gets married because they are told they have to be married and have kids. Most people really don't truly fall in love. They think they've found someone they can live with and raise a family with and that's where the shit hits the fan down the road. Some people just can't be happy no matter what and on down the road it finally boils to the surface. "
Yes, it was like that with my wife. She was attracted to the extrinsic aspects of marriage, exactly the parts I wanted to minimize. Despite initial appearances to the contrary, she was not willing to be any kind of a partner. I mean, she was not willing to allow the closeness and communications which make it possible to make shared decisions. Instead she tried to relate entirely via invocation of outside pressures and standards. She waged a war of emotional terrorism, and it didn't stop until she was faced with law enforcement and courts.
When I spoke of those who get married without prenuptials, as being idiots, I was not referring to her, I was referring to myself. I was trying to make her understand that she was making the situation completely unworkable and that things had to change. I only spoke in such bleak terms because she had been waging a war for years and years, and of course no good whatsoever was being accomplished. She was destroying the both of us.
I also used to explain it like this to her: Normally we say that 1 + 1 =2. But what is happening here is different, 1 + 1 = 0.01. But if two people are able to work together as partners, then 1 + 1 can equal maybe 5, or maybe even more.
@JamesSD, yes I do understand the legalities of prenups. I understand why they will mean little to people who don't have much, and I understand about Community Property. My point to her was just that marriage is very risky and if you are going to go into it, you have to do it with your eyes open. Some of her friends were doing otherwise and they were having serious problems right away. But my message to her also was that she was much more like these friends then I had previously realized. Before we were married she presented herself as much more self aware than she really was.
So I was also telling her that things are not working, and they need to change.
@Pikey wrote, "I disagree. I have 3 wives who stand unquestioning beside me content to be part of my life, a life I find richly rewarding. "
Again Pikey, what you are saying is nonsense. If these women find life with you so rewarding, then why aren't you still married to them. Not just one failed marriage, but two? And then that still does not cause you to look harder at yourself? No you just go and get married again?
Can you be counted on for anything? Or is your word just worthless?
Why are you not still married to the first wife? What have you learned from that experience?
SJG
You really don’t get it do you. When you told your wife that her friends were idiots you were calling her an idiot which you acknowledge is what you believed her to be. If you think for one moment that she was unaware of your emotional bullying then you are not only an idiot yourself but a narcissistic jerk. You didn’t want a partner. You wanted a Stepford Wife.
And my failed marriages? Again you aren’t paying attention to the reality that surrounds you. I don’t believe in divorce. I am still married to wife #1 and wife #2 (who is currently with child) and wife #3 (who recently gave birth). All live in different countries and all know of the existence of the others. I take care of all of them as is my duty and I (we) am (are) content with the lives we have chosen to live. It is more than obvious that you cannot say the same.
Your story is curious, and I might even be tempted to say that I am intrigued by it were there not some obvious problems in it. So you have never divorced, you've just kept adding wives serially, living in different countries.
Well first of all, it is highly unlikely that the first would have agreed to this up front. I suspect that it has only come to pass as she found herself with little other choice than to go along with it.
Second, it is highly unlikely that these different countries actually allow polygamy. So you have gotten your wives to engage in a deception. While probably you will never be prosecuted, your wives have entered into something where their legal rights are already compromised. Should any of them want to divorce you, the fact that they went along with polygamy would make the legal going for them very hard.
Now yes, this world has much unfair about it, and sometimes we do need just to make things work for us as we can, but this does not mean that one should be bragging about it as you are.
Then there is the issue of cost and location. Some of us have actually had to work for a living, and usually this has meant staying in one place. And even then, paying the bills has not always been easy.
So while you have had the ability to maintain three homes and three wives and to travel from place to place, don't for a moment think that that makes you better than anyone else.
So as far as this forum, I find that many show the effects of very hard marriages and divorces, not only me. And many are still in bad marriages.
Now as far as calling my wife an idiot or a non-partner, yes I had to draw lines. I dealt with her in the very best possible spirit of creating partnership. No I certainly do not want a Stepford Wife or anything like that because they will top from the bottom, and then plead ignorance of the consequences. I tried very hard to get the relationship issues brought to the surface, so that partnership could ensue. I went with my wife through two cycles of marriage counseling. And when she completely sabotaged these, I still continued to try and make it work with her.
But then beyond a point I did have to start drawing lines.
1. No I did not call her an idiot. I implied that I was an idiot by getting myself drawn into an unworkable marriage. This was a way of letting her know that things needed to change.
2. I characterized a number of her friends as idiots. I still stand by this. Yes, that could be taken as implying that she was an idiot, but more the way I see it is that I was showing her that there are different ways of relating to people, as there are different sorts of people. I needed to let her understand that I was drawing a line and that I was not going to be living with her, as it is in the things her friends do.
3. I did not just say that she was a non-partner, I laid out repeatedly detailed indictments of her being a non-partner. I needed to let her know that things had to change. I did not use this as my first strategy, rather it was my last strategy. The kinds of restraint that this imposed upon her, though not making the marriage work, they did limit the amount of further harm done.
I think you are the one who must have Stepford Wives, or maybe just Baby Makers. You are the one who does not seem to need spiritual or emotional partnership.
In the book "One Flew Over a Cuckoo's Nest" they make a commentary on marriage. On their deep sea fishing trip the protagonist took two pieces of bait fish and tied them to the opposite ends of a 20' line. They he got one seagull to swallow each end. Then he let them go off into the air doing cartwheels. He said, "To death do you part."
For a marriage to work their has to be partnership because life involves making choices. If partnership breaks down beyond a certain point, the marriage becomes a death trap. That you do not seem to understand this I take to mean that your wives, each of them, are completely subordinated to you.
You say you are contented. If so I wish you and the women well. But my suspicion is that things are very different from the way you are representing them.
As far as myself, like many of those on this board I believe, I am not contented with the way that my marriage went. While I do not directly blame my wife for this, I do find fault with other aspects of our society, and it is these areas that I am trying to work to effect change.
My own plan is to have long term relations with multiple women, in parallel. But there will be no deceptions or subordination involved, and I certainly will have no need to be claiming that I am somehow better than other people.
My intent in starting this thread was to deal with a particularly common facet of non-partnership between men and women. While I know that it does not always have to be this way, it is still very common to be dealing with women who think that a man's career is simply a way of getting money, and that it serves no other purpose. This will become an impasse when it becomes necessary to make changes, and it will be a tremendous hindrance as one has to face even routine challenges. The remedy to this is partnership upfront and partnership on an ongoing basis. Someone who had any understanding of this would not be talking about multiple wives and mutual contentedness and trying to put other people down.
SJG