One of the great prophecies of DOOM we hear regarding the future is that social security will go broke. I think the models that predict this are wrong because they don't take into sufficient account the fact that people will be able and want to work later into life as health and medicine improve.
So just relax with all the ECONOMIC DOOM crap, already. Okay?
I need social security to remain solvent. How else will I pay for strippers in my old age?
LOL! Just brilliant!
4got2wipe: "Of course, I was never worried to begin with!"
You obviously weren't around for Stevie-girl very convincing prophecies of GLOBAL ECONOMIC DOOM back in October.
Funny shit
Inflation?
I started drawing my SS at age 65 and have been self-employed consulting for 5 years. The good news is that as I've added earnings my base for determining my monthly dole has been adjusted upward. The bad news about being self employed is that I pay both shares of the SS tax ( employer & employee). Now, as if approach 70 I know SS will outlast me.
Just another example of how the masses read something on their favorite political blog and just believe it, but if they thought for even a minute would see what non-sense it is. Must have confirmation bias. Must not have cognitive dissonance,
Even if it does go broke as suggested around 2033-2035, there will be enough to pay out 75% of benefits from people paying into the system. OADI (social security) has s long lived history of being tweaked so I assume the same will happen. Higher contribution rate and increasing full retirement age will be two ways.
SS gong "broke" is a bullshit right wing talking point. We can easily cover it forever with a slight increase in taxes or cuts to the military. Most countries have to adjust priorities with changing demographics.
Dougster and all the rest of you time for a lesson in basic economics: That is true SS will not run out of money but you should qualify that with people will be "forced" to work longer because they are now in the process of pushing Social Security out to 70 and if you have another retirement plan you will get nothing. That really pisses me of because I have, by law, maxed out my contribution every year for 40 years and I am likely to see none of it. Federal employees can opt out of most of the FICA contributions (SS and Medicare) and instead pay that money int an alternate fund.
Quite honestly I am tired of supporting the large portion of the population that does not feel like getting off their asses and going to work. If I did not have to pay almost 60% of what I earn in the 75 to 80 hours per week I work I would have more money to club. { 30% Fed income tax, 8% state income tax, 7.5% sales tax, 3% phone tax, 25% gas tax, 5% utility tax (electric, heating gas), 4% cell phone tax, 6% cable tv/internet connection tax, 2% personal property tax (car, boat etc) tax, liquor tax, and finally property taxes} all add up to more than 60% of most people's income. DO THE ARITHMETIC. Even if you only pay 15% or 20% to the feds you still are above 50% in taxes. I did not even add in FICA (Social security and medicare tax comes out by law, you pay 6.2% and you employer pays an additional 6,2% of your Gross pay for a total of 12.4%)
If the government had not used FICA as a revenue source we would not have a shortfall now. Social security is a Ponzi scheme. The congress has 'borrowed' money from the SS fund since its beginning at 0% interest by writing an IOU note to SS Trust Fund and now is being forced to pay back those notes to cover money being paid out. Since Congress has borrowed billions at 0% interest is not a big deal to them but if you think it over if the money had been left in the trust fund in simple Treasury Notes (very safe) drawing compound interest there would be plenty of money. Say the trust fund collected $500 million from FICA in 1960 and put just $250 million in a treasury note drawing 3% compound interest for 40 years... When the note matures and pays off it is worth $800+ million.
If congress had not stolen money from the FICA cash register we would not have issues now. (keep in mind in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80's the ratio of working citizens paying in to retirees taking out was very high and FICA had tons of money coming in and little going out. In order for the Ponzi/Pyramid scheme not to collapse you must have a high ratio of new money paying into the scheme so the people that paid in earlier that are now expecting returns(payouts) can be paid and the people running that scheme can continue skim off the top.
Say didn't Bernie Madoff just go to jail for this same thing????????????
I am not the only one I am only one of tens of thousands of professionals whole started their careers in the late 60's, 70s and early 80s who are type A over achievers who started in shitty jobs, have worked very hard for decades to succeed that are POed that more of their hard fought earnings are being "Redistributed" to the same dirtbags that they could not get to show up to work two days in a row or can't/won't pass a piss test. What are you going to do when we get tired of working, retire and the taxes we pay fall by 90%. I have spoken with many professionals who are ready to say fuck it and head to the golf course.. If the Obamanation can play golf while people are slaughtered why can't I. Not a single one of them felt that way 10 years ago. 26 years of idiots, pervs, morons and scumbags in the White House will jade your attitude.
Did you vote for Al Gore? He ran for president on this very issue and was pilloried at the time. Can everyone join hands and say "lockbox?"
James posted: "SS gong "broke" is a bullshit right wing talking point. We can easily cover it forever with a slight increase in taxes or cuts to the military. Most countries have to adjust priorities with changing demographics."
No it isn't and no we cannot. SS accounts for a quarter of the entire federal budget. Medicare accounts for another 15%. The fact is that the government is spending far more than it is taking in for both programs and the population is only getting older. Part of the problem is the ratio of workers to retirees, which continues to shrink.
These issues are nothing new. 20 years ago, in my college Econ classes, the retirement trajectory of the baby boomer population, and the problems that it would create for SS and Medicare, were well known. The exact year that SS would start running consistent annual deficits was unclear (ended up being 2010), but it was well understood that it would eventually happen. Now SS goes deeper and deeper into debt each year and it is going to get exponentially worse. The current system is unsustainable without either serious benefit reductions or taxing the hell out of current workers. But politicians, being cowardly, would not get ahead of the problem and will only act when they have the air cover of a crisis to do bad things to beneficiaries and tax payers.
What school did you go to, RickyBoy?
There is a basic tenant that is misunderstood and that is the the government can so something right. Government can do very little correctly and and nothing well. Remember high taxes = poverty for all. The problem with socialism is the eventually you run out of other people's money and we are at that point now.
Social Security won't run out because as this country becomes more of a shithole filed with immigrants, normal, hard-working americans will lose ss eligibility because it wil become poverty based.
Rickyboy went to Juliard.
Too true TiredTravelor. I too am sick of working hard and long hours so that some deadbeats can outbreed and ultimately outvote me with their sheer numbers and desire to tax my income in the name of social conscience.
Without the bush tax cuts we'd have a budget surplus.
With no supporting hypothesis I fail to see your rationale when it comes to surplus. Deficit spending is all we've seen from government.
Social Security won't go broke because we won't let it do so. It is that simple. You don't need to look at any demographic projections. It is one of the most popular programs ever devised.
But, we have to watch out for those who want to take it away from us by privatizing it or otherwise replacing it by private programs.
The rich want to get richer. Money being collected in taxes and being redistributed downward is what they want to stop. Makes no difference to them that this money is what keeps the middle class in existent and that stopping this would trash the economy. They don't care because they just look at what they have.
This is so basic. Gandhi in India figured this one out. He explained that if you are saying that you want people to be rich, then that means that they get control of the land and labor. So you saying that you want people to be rich means that you want other people to be poor.
SJG
Dien Bien Phu youtube.com
Democrats are already thinking of nasty plans to cut benefits, tax us more, and rob everyone of their life savings. Who are you going to vote for? Just say more please and bend over? I guess if you're an illegal immigrant, I might vote to screw over the regular Americans. If they got a drivers license, good to vote right? sarcasm aside, I think the tide will turn when all the immigrants or enough of them figure out it is in their own self interest not to collapse the system. With 20% inflation, there's your 20% benefit cut. Only problem is all the workers got a 20% drop in pay after inflation. Problem solved.
SJG posted: "Social Security won't go broke because we won't let it do so."
Right, because that philosophy is working out so well for countries like Greece and cities like Detroit. Wishing doesn't make revenue materialize out of air dude.
SJG posted: "Gandhi in India figured this one out. He explained that if you are saying that you want people to be rich, then that means that they get control of the land and labor. So you saying that you want people to be rich means that you want other people to be poor."
Right, because communism worked out so well for the other countries that tried it. But hey, at least everybody gets to be poor together in a communist system. After all, that's what happens when you remove the economic incentives for some people to create jobs for other people.
What the fuck does any of this have to do with illegal immigrants? They neither vote nor collect SS.
But you rocket scientists who have somehow concocted this ridiculous notion that illegals are somehow the problem should consider this: If we legalized the roughly 11 million immigrants today, then we could be taxing them for SS and medicare today. This would actually help a lot since the root of the current problem is too many retirees and not enough paying workers. Remember, unlike income taxes, SS and medicare taxes start at dollar one. It's not like they aren't already working anyway - they have to or they would starve and be homeless, since illegals don't qualify for most social services. At least if we legalized them, they could start supporting the old Americans right away, since most illegals are well below retirement age.
Actually no countries have ever tried communism which means workers own the means of production. Some have used the name but it was just a small party who controlled everything for their own interests and murdered millions to keep power. But much different than Facism.
America is about the closet any country has come to workers owning controlling the capital via their ownership of stocks. Ironically, if people knew what the words actually meant, they would realize America is the most communist country in history.
"But much different than Facism. " should be "Not much different than Facism. "
^^^ and this is why I'm here. Intellectualism at its finest
Illegals can vote. washingtontimes.com Obama is from Illinois. He knows how to rig everything.
Of course we can count on the people who broke the law to get here to abide by all of our laws after they are here can't we?
sharkhunter posted: "Illegals can vote"
Not legally. You are talking about a registration loophole in the systems of some states, one that (1) many immigrants will likely not try to take advantage of; and (2) can be caught and fixed.
Of course we can count on the people who broke the law to get here to abide by all of our laws after they are here can't we?
Those dastardly criminals, wanting to live in a place where they can actually feed themselves and their children. ;)
It is nearly impossible to get in legally anymore, especially if you are from a Latin American country. So should they starve rather than try to do something to feed themselves and their families? Do you know what it is like to be dirt poor in places like Mexico, El Salvador or Guatemala, among others? The sad reality is that, even working under the table for short wages and with no access to most social services, they still live better here than they did in their home countries. Sorry, but I am having trouble faulting people who are just trying to take care of themselves and their families.
Oh, and most of these people desperately want to be legal and would gladly pay taxes if they could work here on the books. That is 11 million people just waiting to start paying SS and medicare taxes right away.
RickyBoy: " Sorry, but I am having trouble faulting people who are just trying to take care of themselves and their families."
Have to agree with RickyBoy on this one. Just because some people commit some minor crime doesn't mean they would commit more major ones. All of us here probably routinely violate prostitution laws, for instance. Also just because everyone jaywalks in Manhattan does it mean that they would all engage in insider trading if given the opportunity? (Let's get Josh43 and SJG's take on that one. :-) )
Smart talk. I like it. I'm agreeing with the Rickyboy and the Dougster, on this topic anyway. However we all know "the system" will get tweaked. Means testing, delaying full benefits, higher payroll taxes, and who knows what else will keep the entitlements going and the politicians will take credit for the work the hard work that the average citizens do. Remember those in the top 20% don't get the return on investment put into entitlements, so there is a sort of triple taxation when it comes to them paying into it. Since it is better for the poor to maintain "the system" I believe it is something that always will be there as a safety net for our society. Again, if you're planning on leaning on entitlements for your later years, you will be broke and won't afford to be on TUSCL, because you'll have no strip club experiences to share.
Mr. Dugan,
First of all, I am very happy with the new government in Greece. Wishful thinking has nothing to do with it. Now Angela Merkel's people will be facing people who have been trained as Marxist attorneys. If we want the rules to change, then we have to make them change.
SJG
Bernie Sanders youtube.com
SJG
Rejecting American Austerity:
Students Launch Historic Debt Strike, Refusing to Pay Back Predatory College Loans democracynow.org
This country has been going the wrong direction for 35 years now. We've got to start taking it back!
SJG
Borrow money and refuse to pay it back = theft
Lock 'em up!
It's just survival. It is a way of fighting back when the world is oppressive.
SJG
Greek Austerity, Doug Henwood shout.lbo-talk.org
SJG
So what exactly did the Greeks expect to happen when they were running up all that debt?
The Greeks are trying to function. No one was trying to set up a situation which would lead to default. No one except perhaps the Right.
But anyway, the economics has to serve the people, not the other way round.
SJG
Yeah, poor Greeks. Run up all that debt and have to pay it back. Nobody should have to repay what they borrow! Evil banks! Cock Brothers probably behind it all.
OK Dougster you've convinced me to relax about the economic doom! Of course, I was never worried to begin with!
I'm more worried about the doom of being kicked to the curb by my bitch ex. But I'm trying to stay happy by telling myself that everything is just brilliant!