Why do black dancers feel black customers are suppose to get dances from them?
Black dancers that work at a predominately white clubs or mixed clubs for the most part think that if a Black customer comes into the club that he is suppose to get a dance from her. Just because I am the same color as she doesn't mean I am obligated to get a dance from her. In my experience I have found that the few black dancers that work at the predominately "white" clubs don't give good lapdances. On the other hand, in the past when I have went to the more black clubs the black dancers have given me good dances. Why is it like that? Seems like she should be trying to put forth a better effort on her dances when she knows she is in the minority but it works just the opposite. The more "black" clubs where I live at have tighter rules now than what they use to 3 or 4years ago. As a matter of fact, I haven't been to one club in Colombus, GA in 4years because of that simple fact. I don't have a problem with black women but it is not about dating when I go into a stripclub. If I know that a white girl is going to give me a good lapdance then that's who I am going to go with. To be honest, I hate it when I am at a mixed club and they have a few black dancers on duty who aren't all that attractive because I know they are going to try and sit at my table and "cock" block me from getting a dance from someone else.
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You're right about the asian girl NOT lasting long. What I was told was that some of the dancers made it her last night. There was NO WAY that little asian girl was going to be able to standup to any of the other dancers.
The dancers are protecting their turf. I've been told by different black dancers that white dancers won't be allowed to work there. One black dancer asked me, when there are so many white clubs around where real money can be made why should a white dancer be allowed to work at Angels? I can see that point of view-- besides others protect their turf with special laws or by discrimination or regulations or whatever and improve their financial condition so why shouldn't black dancers also look out for their financial interests if even individual rights get trampled.
I wouldn't count on common sense. I'm over at Angels and black dancer after black dancers approahes with wanna dance. Some even sit down and chat a little, but the old wanna dancer will work fine with me. I must of said no thank you to at least 10 black dancers--they weren't hot enough for me. I see an asian dancer, which in itself would be a treat because Angels is all black, but this girl is smoking hot so I jump out of my chair and grab her before anyone else can get her. She seems shocked by my agressiveness, but agrees to sell me dances. Well, I just kept buying dances and a posse of at least 4 angry black dancers formed around me. And, they stopped the asian dancer from dancing! She took off without even collecting her money! It looked like trouble in paradise. The black dancers were furious that I was spending all my money on a *white* dancer. I laughed and said she's NOT WHITE she's ASIAN (a cambodian, btw). The black dancers kept insisting she was WHITE and I kept telling them that she wasn't. She had come back for her money so I asked her what color are you? She gave me a baffled look. I say are you white? She says no. The black dancers continued to insist she was white and that I didn't like black dancers. Fortunately, a favorite of mine from another club showed up and ran up to me with a HUGE SMILE on her face. I said is she black enough for you?! She's my favorite (she has fairly dark black skin). Then I ask her what color are you? She gives me this are you crazy look? The incident was over with the angry black dancers shrinking away.
To me it was complete insanity for the black dancers to accuse me of NOT liking black dancers. I was in a black club and if I didn't like black dancers, then it makes no sense for me to be there. That should have been common sense. (BTW, common sense is not 100%.)
The only "entitlement" from a black dancer I've seen is expecting a black man to at least be cordial, considering there were about five of them (total black dancers and customers) in the club at the time.
Well, some blacks don't feel any responsibility or obligation to help other blacks or do business with other blacks. I can see arguments for and against and a person shouldn't feel forced to extend help or do business with a particular class of people. Of course, if I was a black dancer I think I would feel royally screwed. And, apparently some blacks feel that because a strip club is the place for fantasy the harsh real world environment should be discarded. Sounds good to me. :)
Clubs will vary the rules for Black Dancers, whether you are in Chicago, the Northeast or the Dirty South. For some Godforsaken reason, the West Coast and Southwest are not as "race concious" as the previously mentioned locales.
I consider myself to be a "common-sewer"of strip clubs and gentlemen's clubs having travelled in sales for years. I have been startled to find that Club Owners have told dancers (all races) to avoid visiting the Bro's at their table or taking them back for private dances, since thay may be Pimps trying to recruit the girls to work outside the club or to work the "track." As you know, pimps come in all flavors and sizes and the owner plants a crazy seed in the heads of these dancers that translate into Bro's not returning to their establishment.
I have been going to clubs since the 80's and have seen a wide variety of dancers' attititudes and behaviors. Some of them (Black/White/Latinio/Asian) are often shocked to hear an educated Black man talk to them with respect and comment that they "did not know you were so nice..."
Stereotyping will continue to exist until people actually take the chance to talk with another in/out of the club. I appreciate JPac for starting this thread to help some of us comment on our feelings about our club experiences.
Dancers who "lose count of the # of dances" or who start in the middle of the song and count that as a $25 Lap Dance, lack integrity and professionalism. There are many reasons why clubs go down in attendance and primarily you will see that in the Dancer/Customer realtionship. Good Dancers will bring back good customers in spite of bad management, a bad DJ, or lack of parking in a bad neighborhood. We are all going to the club to fantasize, escape reality, and have some fun. When the inside of the club begins to reflect the racist reality outside the club, we can then choose another venue or another form of entertainment IMHO.
1. Being restricted to days or other times, such as Sundays, when customer population is thin.
2. An informal and unspoken "quota" limiting the number of black dancers, lest the club be perceived as "tipping."
3. DJ's with a limited selection of music who refuse to play anything that would let a black dancer "get her groove on."
4. Customers who might suspect that a white dancer is a whore, but know, for a certainty, that a black dancer is.
5. Low income black customers who believe that a sistah ought to give it up for a brotha for little or no money or tips.
6. Racism from owners, managers, customers, cops and other dancers.
7. Having to meet a higher standard of "white" beauty just to get hired.
I could go on, but all of us should know the score by now. It's just sad.
Thinking about the dancer who did the slave talk routine . . . At the time and later I had wished that my desire for perfect breasts was NOT so absolute. If her breasts were just a little perkier, then I would have been eager to buy dances from her. The rest of her was hot and I liked the way she felt and moved. And, I liked the way she was able to communicate. My loss, as usual, but I can't change what I need.
I will go even further and have in the past. A dancer should be fully free to reject a customer for whatever reasons that includes her hating blacks, whites, or whatever.
I did NOT know what to say or do to calm her down. She started talking phoney slave talk and asked if her English was a problem (her English was better than mine, btw). I said to her that her slave talk is humorous, but I like the way you talk normally so don't go talking like a slave on my account. That calmed her down a little and she explained at length and in detail that I was buying dances from very poorly educated dancers (which was true). She was from the North and had an impressive resume (I'm a grade school dropout) and she felt that I must be intimidated by an educated black woman. I said education is not necessarily a positive. Wow!!! She jumps on me again and says see you don't want an educated black woman!!! I said that is not what I said and I really don't care whether a dancer is educated or not and as long as I can understand what she is saying. Her English could be perfect or very poor, I'm just not focused on that one way or another. So then she says what am I too white for you? I said you're lighter than the other dancers, but you are still fairly dark. Skin color is a very low priority for me. You could be a lot darker or a lot whiter, it just makes almost no difference. She was trying hard to learn what my objection was. I said maybe I'm running a little low on cash? She says that is not likely and I'm fairly certain that is not the problem. I said maybe I'm tired. She says you're not tired. I say the point is there could be whole bunch of reasons or none at all. You keep jumping to conclusions. She says it would be nice if you would have the courage to tell me why. I said that she just wasn't my type and I really couldn't explain it. She says I think you do know why . . .
The bottom line was that I did NOT have the balls to tell her that her breasts weren't perfect enough for me. I didn't know a graceful way of putting it. I appreciate it greatly when a woman tells me you're too short or poor or white or fat or whatever. The problem is it seems like most women, dancers or not, don't want to hear a negative reason for being rejected i.e. you're fat, tall, fake boobs, big boobs, etc. so I take the wimpy road usually . . .
Getting back to the issue at hand, I don't think the dancer who jumped on me was necessarily being rude. Hurt is more like it.
If you put yourself in the shoes of a black dancer, then perhaps you wouldn't see her "rude" actions so harshly. I see young beautiful sweet black women and the fact that even a few of them are willing to see me as a potential boyfriend, with only the requirement to share very modest expenses 50/50, is a very sad state of affairs. That means they are super desperate . . . I just don't see an old poor white man as being as fair deal to them and I blame society . . .
Basically, if a person has a drop of black blood then that person is consider black/colored i.e. non-white. For example, I believe it was in Louisana or may be Missippipi (sp?) where this white lady had something like 1/32nd black ancestry and the government officially considered her colored. She was all upset because she and her family had always considered her to be white. Another example was a "white hope" fighter who was super popular in the South until it was discovered that he had some black in the old family tree. I've read, I think it is Brazil, where in some countries a drop of white makes you white or at least Indian--a higher social standing.
I was dealing with this really ice cold lady. She was going on and on about blacks, and this really is no problem for me--in one ear and out the other. Anyway, she had stolen a huge sum of money (which was to be split 50/50) intended for her step-son and one of her rationales was that her step-son was black and therefore he has no business having any money. As I said this type of talk doesn't bother me too much. It is too normal no matter how sick. But, with her there was an added twist. She not only slept with a black man, she had married a black man! OK, I guess it is possible to be an extreme racist and marry a black man or woman and I let that digest as she was talking with me. She is not my people so I really don't know where she's going and I wanted to learn more. Finally, her rant got the best of me and I regrettably (sp?) blurted out without thinking or thinking too much, BUT YOU ARE BLACK!!! Wow, if looks could kill and then she broke out into a laugh. She said I forgot. You are an American. In my culture I'm white. A little black blood means nothing. I am white and as you can tell I conduct myself as a white. The blacks are mere animals. (I apologize to sensitive readers. It was a trip even for me.)
Anyway, I was raised under the old one drop rule so if a black person who is very light almost white asks me what I see or what race I think they are I will answer that in my eyes they are black. One of favorite dancers met a customer who she said had to be my brother. We both had gone completely crazy over her. We spoke and moved alike. He like I had told her she would make A LOT more $$$ in a white club, etc. Finally, she asked me what color I thought she was. I laughed and said is there any doubt? She said yes, so she wanted to know what race I thought she was. I said to me you are black. She said that is what I've always believed. This other customer who really seems related to you insists that I'm white! How can that be? I kept telling him my family is black and he kept insisting that I was actually white. It is insane. I explained to her that in his culture she may indeed be considered white. He probably thought it was insane that because you have a little black in the family tree that, that would make you black. To him you're a beautiful white girl. She did indeed decide turn white or accept that label and was much happier. A truly beautiful person who deserved the very best and seemed to have found money and happiness and a new race/outlook. She told me it is a lot easier and a lot more fun being white and that she would never be black again . . .
That might be the only thing we agree on. ;)
As far as getting dances, I definitely understand the male sentiment that you only want to spend your hard earned cash on dancers you are attracted to and who give good dances.
I would say it is as much a civil rights issue as blacks financially supporting other black professionals, no? Perhaps, the answer is NO because those are "honorable" professions whereas stripping may be considered low skill low class low morals. Is there any duty for blacks to try and employ a black doctor, lawyer, real estate agent, or other "honorable" black worker?
I believe the black dancer makes far more in a white club than she would in a black club. At least that's the story I repeatedly hear. And, yes I can see where she would expect some help from black men. In my experience black women are extremely pro-black men and I think there a very strong desire or expectation that black men would feel the same way towards them. It looks like a one-way street to me. Of course, I could be wrong.
I can also see where a black man would consider it to be pro-black not to hire black women for that type work. IOW, black women are too good to sell their sexuality and and in some cases their souls.
I haven't worked the numbers, but I've felt that high incarceration rates for black men in their prime in this society contributed to the raw deal black women are getting. Anyway, bottom line it is a good deal for me and I guess that's the important thing.
A white guy can go to a stripclub, enjoy himself and forget his troubles for a while. Woe to the Black Man who thinks that he can relax and forget about the "struggle" for a second, especially if it means that a sister with an attitude feels she is not getting her due or dues. So black dancers will try to make a black customer feel guilty and ashamed if he doesn't buy dances. Play the race card to get some green. Yes, this is primarily a black on black thing, because dancers know that white guys don't and won't listen to this nonsense. But black customer shouldn't listen to it either. It is insincere, irrelevant and rude. This is entertainment for the customer, not a civil rights struggle.
The new dancer acted in a manner that I would think is normal. If some group is mistreating me, then unless I'm super desperate I would want nothing to do with them. Among the black dancers I've met that seems to be a tiny minority view. The main view seems to be to prove their value i.e. turn a potential enemy into a friend. I sure don't have that type thinking running thru me and I didn't think that most people thought like that. I believe I would be like the new dancer, but with more anger and distaste.
I remember black working women becoming very angry when I would honestly answer their question regarding whether I preferred white women or black women. It just made NO sense to me. In theory these women are just supposed to care about my $$$. Usually, they would calm down when I would talk with them. For example, most of them admitted that they strongly preferred a black man with a job over an equally employed white man. Usually, they understood that if it was ok for them to prefer black men, then it was ok for me to prefer white women.
I've said before that it is difficult for me to step into the shoes of a black person. Like the above example it just makes very little if any sense to me. Of course, many of my core values make little sense to mainstream whites and I feel very little empathy for that group.
Well, when I was growing up white women were generally put on a pedestal by both white males and black males. The black women were not treated nearly as well even by their own men. Yes, I realize my observation may be wrong or I was just watching very small groups interact. But, it is interesting that I do NOT personally know any white men who are especially attracted to black women and yet I knew more than a few black men who had a very strong preference for white women. I believe that generally the attraction to white women over black women by the black men I knew was caused by social conditioning. Yes, a few may have just been more attracted to white women and the society had nothing to do with it.
Anyway, my 2 cents is that black women have generally gotten a raw deal.
I remember the *first* black dancer--a complete superstar-- at Angels telling me she was being treated better there than at the black clubs. That is very sad because Angels was a very poor white trash club where blacks were not allowed via brute force and the fact that the black clubs were so much better.
I really can't comprehend comparing the way white women act with the way black women act. I saw one group living high on the hog treated like Angels and the other group living poor and being treated like maids or worse. Hey, it is probably just the environment I was raised in. You know the old one drop rule? It is funny for a long time I thought everyone knew that rule. Imagine my shock at meeting whites and blacks who'd never heard of it . . .
I too, am a Brother from the Community, who never wants to feel like I owe a siatah some dances because I'm there with money I work for, to kick back, relax and make some conversation with someone new or to spend some time with my ATF, who may not necessarily be Black.
I like WOMEN. The may be young and sweet or mature and mellow and Mr. Happy comes in all flavors. If I see a new dancer in the club, I will try to spend some talking with her to see if "she gets me..." or if she all about the "wanna dance hustle." I see the new black dancer sometimes trying to "cockblock a Brutha," and I may have to tell her that my ATF will not approach me until she vacates my table. That's when the "OH, I see ... speech begins: You just wanna take care of the Blonds/Latinas/Asians, etc..." Attitude City will take the starch out of my spear quicker than liquor ever will.
I don't think any dancer should feel entitled to receive dances because she decided to strip and take a job at some particular club. Why is it that the non-black girls can take No for an answer without the "guilt-trip-to go?" Just askin'
One of the greatest truism if that beauty is in the eye of beholder. I see dancers who I would pay to stay dressed get treated like the most attractive girl on the planet. OTOH, it does seem like the most attractive dancers are not usually as sweet as the dogs. I have a theory for that, but it is too long. :)
Sounds like a good idea going to Shadowcat's favorite club. When I was in Dothan a man who knew all about Angels and the RoLexx (he thought both clubs were Heaven) told me there is a super wild anything goes place in Tallahassee right across from the University. I didn't get a chance to look for it. :(
Also, I was surprised by the number of dancers and customers who believe looks are mostly irrelevant! How to judge the stripper? By how nice she is and her conversation skills or how well she dances or the stylishness of her clothing. It is being "shallow" to judge a stripper on her physical attractiveness. Well, I don't consider it shallow to judge a potential playmate by her looks. Without the looks she might as well be a man.
I would think she would expect some special consideration because she thinks of you as one of her own. And, you should be helping to build each other up. Some groups are very successful doing this--The Wall Street Journal did a story on Koreans and how they not only try and trade with each but more significantly will only lend money inside the group which has helped them prosper.
I think the reason the dance may be lower quality is because that is supposed to be one of the benefits of workng at a white club--more money & less work & more status.
Some whites very strongly identify with all other whites (except perhaps the Jews) and often I will benefit by that because I'm able to blend in. There are tiny groups of whites that I come across who I feel very closely related to as if they were my best buddies or if not my best buddies super close relations as if I was looking in the mirror--not always a pretty image. :) The blood line is extremely important to these people because they can almost predict behavior if they recognize the blood. Sometimes my own people will see me as being poisoned with what they percieve as Jewish blood. More than a few times I've been referred to as Jew or Jew Boy and that is meant to express extreme hatred.
In my case, I like/prefer black dancers and 90% of my LDs are from black dancers (and 90% of my SC club visits are to all-black SCs).
Every now and then I’ll see a white dancer @ one of these all-balck clubs (but not very often). Innevitably these white dancers will come up to me almost right away thinking that as a whitey I will want them (maybe they think I walked into an all-black club by mistake and would be relieved to find, or be with a white dancer?).
I always turn down a white dancer in an all-black club b/c that is not what I’m there for.
Many TUSCLers (mostly white) have though expressed that black dancers often tend to be more pushy even w/ white customers.
I wonder if the black dancers would think that a black custie would be attracted to a black dancer just like a white dancer (in a black club) would assume I would be attracted to her?
I would also think that the “help a sista out†or making a black custie feel guilty is just an angle they are using b/c all they care about is making that sale (they probably don’t believe that shit of “hey help me out `cause we the same raceâ€). They wouldn’t give a discount to a struggling brotha just b/c “we the same raceâ€.
We, as customers own no one special consideration.
I never feel guilty about helping a sister out. They're black AND female, while many women these days seriously exploit the kindess of men (and stupidity) to the 9th degree, these girls at the strip are working...and I love a working woman. And so, I support who's needed.
Unequal Desires: Race and Erotic Capital in the Stripping Industry Paperback
by Siobhan Brooks (Author)