The Wikipedia articles on 'Asian' and 'The Orient' help to clear up some of these issues. The notion that "Oriental" is insulting is primarily held in America. In Canada or Britain, if you said somebody was Asian, the assumption would likely be that they were Indian or Pakistani. Chinese South Africans might be insulted to be called Asian. The conclusion I draw is to use "Asian" for now when you mean "Oriental", but be ready to switch to a new vogue term in a few years.
AN, don't forget that nouns are not exempt from the outrage sweepstakes: remember all the recent fuss about "refugee" vs. "evacuee". Also, you see the word "slave" less frequently in referring to African-Americans in bondage in the antebellum American South. That is considered offensive, because somehow the word is thought to describe those who accepted their position of bondage. The term du jour is "enslaved peoples."
It is a very sad people who allow themselves to be offended by an ajective. Black, oriental, white, wasp. whatever. Oriental means "Of or relating to the countries of the Orient or their peoples or cultures; eastern" The "orient" means "the countries of Asia, especially of eastern Asia". How this became an insult is beyond me. It's kind of like "Jew". Many people consider this an insult. None of those people are Jews. I am a protestant, but grew up with a lot of Jewish friends. Why exactly is an adjective, especially if accurate, an insult? If you consider being a Jew inherently bad, well first off I pity you, but second why? Same for "oriental". When did adjectives become "insensitive"?
FONDL: You can joke about it if you want but it's accepted terminology in the business world and in pretty much all of popular culture. I know change is hard but sooner or later you are going to offend someone if you don't drag your thought process into the 21st century. Your son is trying to save you from embarassing yourself...and him.
The Urals Mountains separate European and Asian Russia geographically and ethnically, for the most part. I think very few Caucasian looking Russians can be considered Asian under any criteria.
At any rate, I would rather live with a little PC sillyness than the stench of bigotry that prevailed in this country when I was a kid.
Yoda, I'm familiar with the PC concepts - as my son says, people are Asian, rugs are Oriental - I just don't much care. But then I don't have to live in the People's Rupublic of Massachusetts. Where I come from, being PC is considered a joke to most people.
I do once remember seeing a woman who was probably Indian or Pakistani dancing in a cub in DC once. But again I don't consider that as being Asian even though I guess it is. Or Eurasian maybe? How about Russia, is that part of
Asia? At least the eastern half must be. I've seen Russian dancers. I think the term "Oriental" is more descriptive, Asia is too big an area.
Chitown, my Indian fave, Giselle, was so Americanized there was no trace of any heritage of modesty about her. Sometimes, Indian or Pakistani men would come into the club and berate her for bringing shame on her family, whatever. Then, of course, they would proceed to molest a black or white stripper.
I would love to see an Indian dancer. In additon to being a relatively small part of the population, Indian culture tends to place a high premium on physical modesty (in India, couples will not even hold hands on the street), so I think Indian women would be underrepresented in the population of dancers, compared to their percentage of the population. In addition, the Indians who make it to the US would generally have more attractive alternatives economically than dancing.
This is a pity, because a lot of them are quite beautiful
The one dancer I had the most fun just hanging out with in the club - not sexually, although she was gorgeous - was second generation Indian. She probably wouldn't qualify as "Asian", however, in most people's minds, even though Asia without India would be unthinkable, because Indians were never "Orientals".
FONDL: I know what you mean. I'm a bit younger than you are but it's still difficult for me to think of a Philippine as Asian. However the term "Oriental" has been un-PC for quite a few years now and Philippine women are really beautiful...so I've learned to adjust. Most of the Asian dancers I know are from China or Japan. The escort that I mentioned in the Philly area is from the Philippines
Yoda, I'm aware of that about AMPs, I've never been to one and probably never will. I think it's kind of sad.
The other difference is that my working definition of "Asian" is probably much more narrow than it should be. I tend to use the terms "Asian" and "Oriental" as synonomous even though I guess they aren't. For example, I don't think of Fillipinos as being Asian even though I guess technically they are. So when you guys talk about Asian girls I think mainly of Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese or Koreans, and I don't recall ever seeing a dancer who appeared to be from any of those nationalities.
FONDL: The rural locations may have a lot to do with it but the amps don't. Asians that strip and asians that wind up in amps come from two completely different cultures. Dancers are girls who come here to get an education or who's families are naturalized and the girls where born in this country. Girls who work in amps are mostly "sponsored" into the US and owe a large sum of money to whomever brought them here. They work in the massage parlors to pay of their debt and, in some cases, earn their freedom from what amounts to indentured slavery.
Maybe the difference is that I tend to visit clubs that are in suburban or rural areas much more frequently than in cities. Plus in the areas I'm most familiar with there are many more massage parlors than strip clubs, and I'm under the impression that these are mostly staffed by Asian girls. So maybe those two factors limit the number of Asian strippers in the places I've mostly been. Or maybe I just haven't noticed - when I'm with a fav, which is most of the time, I don't pay much attention to what else is going on in the club.
The Asian girls seem are concentrated in the Northeast and in California. This is strictly for economic reasons and also because many of them are here working on their education and those two regions offwer many of the nations better educational opportunities. I've got one Asian fav who migrated to the Boston area via Toronto. There is a very large Asian contingent up there as well.
You can usually count on one or two per shift in most DC clubs. I can't recall ever seeing one in my visits to the Houston clubs, but that was nearly 10 years ago.
I can't remember the last time I saw an Asian in a club in Indy. The most you get in terms of ethnic diversity is an occasional Latina. A couple of weeks ago I got a dance from a Colombian girl who had a face like J-Lo, but not the butt.
Chicago clubs will have at least 2-3 Asian dances in their line up on different shifts. They tend to do well, since, most are playing against their stereotype. I have some favorites. They like you much better if you can differentiate the ethnicities. Shout out to the Chitown Lawyer: What's the situation in Indy?
So the West Coast is where to go? I've been an East Coaster my whole life, and I haven't really seen many Asian dancers anywhere I've been (southeastern US from Virginia to Florida).
This brings back fond memories. My very first lapdance ever was from a beautiful Asian woman at the Colorado Restaurant and Bar in Houston. Of course, that was ten years ago, so I doubt she is dancing still, or that the experience would be the same. But thanks for reviving old memories....
Perhaps FONDL is not aware that PC-speak replaced "Oriental" with "Asian", so he thinks we're talking about dancing Mongolians and Iranians. Actually, some younger Chinese- and Japanese-Americans, et al., I know prefer to be called Orientals in reaction to the too broad PC-ness of "Asian".
FONDL: You really need to get out more. Asians certainly are not in the majority but there are ay least one or two Asian hotties dancing in almost every club I frequent. One of my favorite escorts is a gorgeous Phillipina girl who used to dance in Philly. In fact I'm working next week in Philly...that reminds me, I need to call her!!
FONDL, either you must be joking or you're stuck in the most timewarped hog holler of West Virginia, which I know you're not. Obviously, the West Coast clubs are crawling with Asian dancers, but I assumed the Northeast had more than here in the Midwest, where every club seems to have at least one or two.
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I just try to live my life in accordance with David Niven's (I think) rule that a gentlemen never unintentionally offends anyone.
At any rate, I would rather live with a little PC sillyness than the stench of bigotry that prevailed in this country when I was a kid.
I do once remember seeing a woman who was probably Indian or Pakistani dancing in a cub in DC once. But again I don't consider that as being Asian even though I guess it is. Or Eurasian maybe? How about Russia, is that part of
Asia? At least the eastern half must be. I've seen Russian dancers. I think the term "Oriental" is more descriptive, Asia is too big an area.
This is a pity, because a lot of them are quite beautiful
The other difference is that my working definition of "Asian" is probably much more narrow than it should be. I tend to use the terms "Asian" and "Oriental" as synonomous even though I guess they aren't. For example, I don't think of Fillipinos as being Asian even though I guess technically they are. So when you guys talk about Asian girls I think mainly of Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese or Koreans, and I don't recall ever seeing a dancer who appeared to be from any of those nationalities.