THE VOICE OF REASON... to the doubters, why won't this work?
zipman68
the speed force!
I'm pasting a response to ranukam because I believe it is worth discussing. Every month or so there are calls for moderation. We've recently had a shit storm because of Alucard(dot). Personally, I thought it was funny and meant in jest. I'm sure Alucard doesn't agree that it was meant in jest and for that reason I think it was also cruel. Personally, I wouldn't have done it BECAUSE it won't be received as a joke. Part of the fun for me is believing that those I have "rivalries" with aren't taking things TOO seriously. Personally, I would respond to a polite PM saying "back off" as long as:
1. My "rival" backed off on me.
-and-
2. My "rival" respected my right to disagree and post threads (and post in the same thread) WITHOUT PERSONAL ATTACKS.
I want to stress this...I will not attack anybody who politely says "back off" as long as they also follow the above. I hardly feel the two points above are unreasonable.
Here is my reply to ranukam.:
Ranukam...I don't know if I'm on your ignore list but I'm going to reply with something serious. I really do think people can self moderate. In my opinion, the biggest problem is when people who SUPPOSEDLY don't like joke threads invade joke threads. Why do people do that? It accomplishes nothing. The folks who are joking continue to joke but now they have a target. It encourages more of the same kind of behavior that these folks CLAIM to dislike.
I think the folks like Bonesbrother and 23cambyman are the real trolls. I suspect they like all the shit they stir up. I think you're asking a serious question so I'm not putting you in this category. I will, however, suggest a solution:
1. If you genuinely don't like something IGNORE IT. And by that I mean REALLY IGNORE IT. Don't bitch about it or hurl insults or tell people they are on your ignore list. Those who do that are either stupid or they are trying to get a rise out of their opponents. I admit that I'm trying to get a rise out of folks like Tittyfag. IF he actually dislikes it he could do one of two things: send a polite PM asking me to stop (I would do so IF he also disengaged) -or- simply disengage. He does neither. So I conclude he likes the sparring.
2. Organize the posts by "Last Comment". The serious threads come to the top if folks like them. The GOOD joke theads also come to the top. Combine this tactic with ignore an 95% of the problems disappear. But remember, ignore only works if your ACTUALLY IGNORE people!
---
Why wouldn't this work?
1. My "rival" backed off on me.
-and-
2. My "rival" respected my right to disagree and post threads (and post in the same thread) WITHOUT PERSONAL ATTACKS.
I want to stress this...I will not attack anybody who politely says "back off" as long as they also follow the above. I hardly feel the two points above are unreasonable.
Here is my reply to ranukam.:
Ranukam...I don't know if I'm on your ignore list but I'm going to reply with something serious. I really do think people can self moderate. In my opinion, the biggest problem is when people who SUPPOSEDLY don't like joke threads invade joke threads. Why do people do that? It accomplishes nothing. The folks who are joking continue to joke but now they have a target. It encourages more of the same kind of behavior that these folks CLAIM to dislike.
I think the folks like Bonesbrother and 23cambyman are the real trolls. I suspect they like all the shit they stir up. I think you're asking a serious question so I'm not putting you in this category. I will, however, suggest a solution:
1. If you genuinely don't like something IGNORE IT. And by that I mean REALLY IGNORE IT. Don't bitch about it or hurl insults or tell people they are on your ignore list. Those who do that are either stupid or they are trying to get a rise out of their opponents. I admit that I'm trying to get a rise out of folks like Tittyfag. IF he actually dislikes it he could do one of two things: send a polite PM asking me to stop (I would do so IF he also disengaged) -or- simply disengage. He does neither. So I conclude he likes the sparring.
2. Organize the posts by "Last Comment". The serious threads come to the top if folks like them. The GOOD joke theads also come to the top. Combine this tactic with ignore an 95% of the problems disappear. But remember, ignore only works if your ACTUALLY IGNORE people!
---
Why wouldn't this work?
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20 comments
zipman68, members like Dougster and his aliases and other members who behave the same way have NOT shown a willingness to "Back Off". They simple keep attacking & mocking viciously.
But, hey, I'm on some moderated list. It's not the end of the world that way either.
Because every time you log on you'll have the 3 newest aliases clogging up the board with worthless shit. Then you'll have the actual topics clogged up by people who respond to the aliases but who are otherwise legitimate posters. In turn this derails good topics.
I shouldn't have to wade through a river of crap each day because some people have nothing better to do than make up a 19th fake name.
Going to "last comment" doesn't work, because you get a few of the same assholes pulling up month/year old posts just to prove they can be assholes.
It's gotten out of hand.
Besides, if we had a moderator, over half of your posts would be deleted, e.g that dumbass list that keeps going on and on and on, that no one but you understand.
Also, this is the DISCUSSION section of TUSCL. If you don't want your thoughts discussed, don't put them out there.
BTW, I don't ignore your crazy ass crap because I think it is funnier than anything juice and his ilk put out.
So once the moderator is in place, the person behind the recent spamming will get to say "... WINS AGAIN!" and may just step up the sophistication of his evasion tactics.
LOW!
@Alucard - it isn't clear to me what the rules would be. If it was literally "don't engage in personal attacks" then what constitutes a personal attack? We all have different tolerance for things said and I'd rather adjust my behavior to individuals. I agree with you that there are behaviors that are clearly over the line, but even then there is the question of whether what was said was intended as a joke. Obviously, a moderator could simply take a zero tolerance policy -- but the libertarian/social liberal in me really dislikes zero tolerance policies. I'm not really interested in reading a board that implements one, even if it is well-intentioned.
@jester214 - what you said seems superficially reasonable, but I'd like point out that one man's crap is another man's treasure. To somebody who likes crazy stories 'bout KFC and strippers but doesn't like stories of 2AMers Shadowcat would be a spammer and Juice the good guy. A moderator might not agree with you regarding which posts are crap.
I'm a firm believer that my ignore policy will work -- as long as folks REALLY IGNORE those they dislike. Yes, you may need to hunt through two pages to find all the threads you like when you visit. But is that really that hard?
I disagree.
One or two isolated "Personal Attacks" may be seen as a joke by some people with senses of humor I don't agree with. BUT constant attacking & mocking over an extended period of time can IMHO ONLY be seen as a TRUE Personal Attack & should be dealt with severely by a ironfisted moderator!
The fact that we have to have a "just use the ignore button" post once a month should be pretty telling evidence that it doesn't/won't work.
Besides, I am NOT advocating a "just use the ignore button" policy. I am advocating what I'll call a "holistic ignore" policy.
What I mean by that is take ignoring those you believe to be bad actors seriously. Hit the ignore button, but also act as if the person you are ignoring doesn't exist. I've seen very few people who complain actually do that. I think that will work much better.
BTW, personally, I'd be just as happy if we all dialed back attacks. However, I like some of the silly threads. There were some really funny ones about a year ago. Not so many now. To much pissing on each other...whether it is a joke or not. But I want to stress that I'm not telling folks what to do...just stating what I would like. If others agree that's cool. If not, do what you want. I'm just saying that IF you don't like silliness or insults or whatever the best way to express your dislike is to ignore it....and by that I mean REALLY IGNORE IT!!!
Peace ;-)
Every board I've been on that had moderation had mod drama. Not saying it wouldn't help, but given the nature of the TUSCL beast, it would just create a different set of problems.