Increase in Services, odd development

avatar for Book Guy
Book Guy
I write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
At a few of my favorite clubs, the level of "service" available has increased recently and I want to ask y'all's opinions about this development.

The price for a lap-dance has not gone up. The girls who give more service are the most attractive girls, not the least desirable ones. The new girls still give the same level of not-particularly-high service, whereas the long-standing girls are increasing their service. I don't get it. It seems to contradict all the economic models I can imagine. It's backwards.

A little background on my clubbing habits. I have attended some clubs (and I don't need to name specifics for this discussion) regularly for about 5 years. I am not there all the time -- I attend probably twice, to four times, per month, usually on an "off night" because I don't like the crowds during the weekend. (Actually, I enjoy crowd-scenes well enough, they don't totally put me off, but I find that access to the girls becomes more limited when either low-paying frat-boy types or long-duration talk-to-the-girls-forever types congregate at clubs on weekends.) My clubs are more like "locals" joints, places that are not part of national chains, and not in mainstream clubbing or touristing districts. I enjoy them because the gals know my (fake) name, the bartenders are starting to remember my drinks and shake my hand, and basically I am not being taken advantage of by an up-sell. For example, if I have drunk three high-balls through the course of a long evening, and then I ask for a cup of water to hydrate and delay me and help sober up before my drive home, they'll give me a free bottle of water and even initially push my tip for the water back across the bar ("refusing" to accept it until I "insist").

In these clubs, there are women who have been working there for 5, 10 years. And I know them by their (fake) names, their schedules, whether they have tattoos in the secret parts of their bodies, whether they have kids, etc.. I have always gotten lap-dances at these clubs. I often would only get dances from one girl on a given night, often just three or four songs' worth, but it's an odd night when I leave without getting any dances at all. Girls are (rightly?) frustrated with me, because I don't buy a lot of drinks for them, because I don't buy a lot dances from a wide range of girls, and because I don't usually go back to the same girl more than once or twice before I "get the itch" to move on to a different girl. So, you can't say that any one girl has established me as "regular" customer, because once she starts to set her hooks into me, I lose interest and start to have wander-lust. In fact, one of the main reasons I attend strip clubs is because of my own instinctive wander-lust. I like the variety that I can't have in civilian life.

Anyway, that's some background. Now, into this mix, comes a change in atmosphere. Suddenly for me, the best girls are getting very gropey. I am NOT complaining! The amount of money and time that used to net for me a duration of three lap dances, of standard Tampa-straddle style, now nets for me much higher levels of service. In specific, there is now strong likelihood of unsolicited immediate start, by the girl, of reaching underneath my belt and underwear, for example. There is discussion and offer of release, finish, engagement for the whole nine yards, doing so in the back room (where I have never been), etc. etc.. My outlay of money and time has, for no apparent reason, suddenly begun to yield much more result, in terms of availability and cost of sexual services above and beyond the mere lap-dancing experience.

What surprises me, is that I can't explain it. If it were the case that the poor economy were motivating this phenomenon, then I would be getting greater service from girls who do NOT know me, either because they were new to dancing (and perhaps less aware of their club's official and unofficial rules; or more willing to break the rules because they're more desperate for the money even if they are aware of the rules). But I'm getting upped service from girls who DO know me. If, as another theory, it were the case that the girls' level of comfort with me had finally upped to the point that they felt they knew I wasn't a cop, knew I wasn't going to blab about it on the internet (doh! doing that right NOW!), or knew that I was "approved" by management somehow, then I would be getting this extra service in slow increments, first one girl then another, and there would be a feeling-out period during which the "old" girls with whom I had interacted for a long time, would slowly be increasing what they let me access -- and probably for a heightened price! Or, if it was the case, that the whole level of service in the whole industry was simply on the incline (maybe because of the economy) then, the girls I've known the longest, and am most familiar with, would not necessarily be giving more service (since they would know they didn't need to, in order to keep my business) even if there were competition among the newer girls who were importing higher levels of service due to their money needs. So, I would not be getting better higher service from the most princessy girls, the ones who are the hottest, the sweetest, the most girl-next-door in appearance, the ones who play the "innocent" card. Rather, it would be more likely that the haggard older women, the "dirty" girls, perhaps some of the screwed-up overly tattooed drug-addicted younger women, would be the ones who felt that increasing service was their best route to income and customer satisfaction from me. Finally, a last confusing point, it's nearly all ITC activity. Very little has been offered in terms of OTC solicitation -- there's always the odd girl who is doing that, whether a new one or a long-standing experienced one, but in general the amount of offers of "here are my phone digits, call me so we can get together and do more" is about the same as it always has been, and it's NOT coming from the girls who are increasing their lapper services.

All that put together, it would suggest to me, that if service were increasing for some understandable reason, then one of the following would happen. I'd be getting a gradual increase in service from some of the women with whom I was familiar, as they began to compete with incomers who were offering higher levels of service; and/or, I'd be getting a less gradual, more immediate increase in service from some of the women with whom I was not familiar, who are those very incomers; and/or, my increased level of service would likely not be from the most desirable, in-demand women among those who had been around for a long time, but rather would be from (a) the incomers, and (b) the less desirable of the old guard; and/or I would be getting more solicitations to go outside the club, via offers of phone numbers or other rendezvous, perhaps gradually from the long-standing dancers or immediately from the newcomers.

Yet none of that is happening. Instead, I'm getting just the opposite. The hottest women, especially those who've been around a longer time and who know me best, are stick-shiftin' it as though they've always been doin' it and as though it's not much skin off their back to be doin' it, and the price is the same as the non-shiftin' of a few months ago for the same number of songs. Six months ago I couldn't have gotten any of 'em to break that barrier with me, but now it's performed as though it's the norm. Furthermore, the new women incoming dancers, those whom I have not met, are not necessarily any more or less licentious than was any group of new dancers at any time in the past. The influx of new dancers remains at the same level of service. And, furthermore again, there doesn't seem to be an economic competition model going on, in which the more difficult circumstances due to the overall economy are what is motivating the women to increase their service since (as noted) it's the most desirable and not the least desirable women upping their service first, and it's the women most familiar with my predilections and buying history, not the women least familiar with me.

So, it doesn't make sense. I am certainly not complaining -- women whom I used to have a hard time corralling at all, since they had their sugar-daddies over in a corner and were simply going to sit in those guys' laps and just chitty-chat forever -- now those women are hunting me out, taking me to the back room, getting the same amount of money they used to get, but doing two or four times as much as I used to expect. And yet it's not outside-the-club activity that's increased, it's only inside-the-club activity.

I have two theories.

One is, that I have gained approval. Why? Maybe management has (finally!) given me the secret wink-and-nod. Somewhere in the back room, the powers-that-be have agreed, that Book Guy is no longer a threat. They looked up my license plate with a buddy who works for the police, or, the local constabulatory has changed its policing methods in this jurisdiction to the extent that there's a new set of ground rules, or for some other reason, doing this for me in specific is more OK than it used to be. It always used to be OK for some customers or some girls, not OK for others, and I've changed categories to the OK group. It's even possible I've become less of an asshole, more desirable for any number of reasons. I am taking a new pill that makes me less cantankerous, therefore my subtle interpersonal interactions may be sending a signal that says, "OK to have fun with" rather than "trouble-maker." I have a new profession that makes me seem to have a great deal of responsibility (and the girls are aware of this change) and also seem as though I might in the future have opportunity to transfer benefit, through back channels, to the club. It's an off-chance, a 1-in-100 possiblity, but it's still more chance than the 0-in-100 possiblity I had before this professional change. In fact, maybe they like the idea of keeping a few videotapes from the security cameras, of dudes who are in Book Guy's profession, making hanky-panky with hot girly-girls in the back rooms -- keep the vids around in case blackmail is ever beneficial, ya know. So, maybe I've gained approval, or at least approvability. But WHY I've gained approval is still up in the air for me. I'd love to think that my prescription simply makes me a more enjoyable fellow. I know, it's a pipe dream, that all my troubles with women are evaporating thanks to one little pill, and that the first place I'm learning about it is at a strip club, and that eventually the beneficial changes in my life will trickle down from strip clubs to normal chicks and finally to Playboy bunnies who call me out of the blue because I'm so "cool" and they just want to hang out chat and then have tickle fights, but hey a man can dream ...

My other theory, is that I'm simply seeing things wrong. The things that I say are not happening, actually are happening. The women whom I prefer, because of body type, age, firmness, attitude, are actually less than ideally desirable to most men, and the "best" girls are therefore not the ones who are offering more service; it's actually the "worst" girls (in most men's estimation). That thought horrifies me. If it's true, then I've become the old fart who likes the haggard old losers who'll do anything for a buck. Or maybe the incoming newer dancers are really upping the ante, despite the fact that I haven't seen it. Maybe they're all doing full-on coitus in the back rooms, and "my" gals are simply timidly following suit in an attempt to keep up their competitiveness, and with me they don't go to coitus because they know that any upgrade will be above my former level of accustomed service, which was, quite frankly, nothing at all.

Anyway, a strange thought lurks in the back of my head. The women seem to like doing it. It isn't just for the money. All the upside-down economics of it, that I've alluded to (as long as I'm perceiving things accurately) suggest, there's no REASON for them to grab ol' willie and then get frustrated unless they can make him finish ("YES! got it done!" or, if not, then, "Next time, Book Guy, you're not eluding my grasp! I'm makin' it happen!" smile wink ... so they respond). Do they actually like fiddlin' with a willie, getting in the mentally sexual zone during a lapper despite the fact that it's just a paying customer and not their skinny slimy tattooed drug-dealing boyfriend? I keep getting the sense, from the women with whom I get along the best, the ones I've known for a while, but with whom I haven't spent much time lately (recall, my wander-lust above), that they're actually enjoying the act of corralling ME. Why didnt this happen four years ago? Heck, if you attend a club for a year, as a regular, that's long enough. I have been going, off and on, depending on what city I lived in, to these particular clubs since about 1990, so it's not like I haven't put in my time.

Well, that's a long post, interesting to me, but maybe a bit too long for most folk to digest. If you do make it all the way through it to the bottom, I'd be happy to hear your discussion of the situation. Has this been happening in your burg? Does it mirror my experience, or is an increase in service appearing among the women more predictably likely to be giving that increase, where you are?

Thanks feryertime.

35 comments

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avatar for steve229
steve229
12 years ago
"Well, that's a long post"

Now I see why you nickname is "Book Guy"
avatar for motorhead
motorhead
12 years ago
Yes
avatar for Book Guy
Book Guy
12 years ago
Aren't we witty. :)

Seriously, glad you read (some of) it. I still would be happy to hear comments about the situation in your town, increases in service due to the economy or whatnot, whether or not directly in response to all my (excess) specific statements.
avatar for Alucard
Alucard
12 years ago
I think bad economics has gotten a lot of dancers in the habit of higher degrees of service, to maintain their needed life style level. In any case IMO most adults enjoy sexual contact & the enjoyment of it, whether it is paid for or not & whether or not they are being paid for it or not.

The quality of the partner chosen is another matter.
avatar for Ermita_Nights
Ermita_Nights
12 years ago
I'm afraid I didn't get through the whole thing. Have you tried asking the girls?
avatar for motorhead
motorhead
12 years ago
I can only speak of my experiences in Michigan, but I think the increase in "extra service" was a consequence of the economic downturn in 2008. Unemployment rates shot into the high teens so at least some people cut down their clubbing budget. Some dancers started to openly offer extras in hopes of maintaining a decent level of income.

Jump forward to present day. While the economy has rebounded (somewhat) in the Midwest, Michigan still ranks 39th in employment at about 8.5% as of May. Better but not great.

But now customers gave apparently gotten used to special services at bargain basement prices. As they say, once Johnnie saw Paris, he's not going back to the farm. Just look at a recent review for BT's in Detroit. The reviewer felt the dancer's asking price of $200 for (unspecified) extras was outrageously too high. That doesn't seem too steep for me, but that's the playing field today. The girls are forced to do what they gotta do.

I don't think there I'd one simple answer. And I doubt the poor economy was not the only driver. Heck, sometimes I think this board perpetuates the "myth" that every SC customer in every state are getting OTC or extras at bargain basement prices and perhaps could be a contributing factor.
avatar for Dougster
Dougster
12 years ago
Jesus H Christ, what a fuckin' windbag! What's the tl;dr version?
avatar for Alucard
Alucard
12 years ago
"Just look at a recent review for BT's in Detroit. The reviewer felt the dancer's asking price of $200 for (unspecified) extras was outrageously too high. That doesn't seem too steep for me"

As a patron of this club this year, I don't at 1st blush think $200 is outrageous. It is about right. But it depends highly on the Quality of the Dancer in terms of looks, personality, experience and type of sexual contact being engaged in. But we all have our personal view of these factors.
avatar for randy77
randy77
12 years ago
It's all about the money or lack of it in today's economy. BTW, It's not just SC, but all service-oriented businesses.

The clubs aren't as crowded as they used to be, all the dancers complain they only make a fraction they used to make and even most posters here admitted in a post a few weeks back that they don't go to clubs as much anymore due to economic reasons. The girls still have bills to pay and have to get that money and are all competing for that reduced amount of available cash in the club. Just last night a dancer told me she's turning to extras because she's not making near the money she used to make when she didn't offer extras. She still has to pay her bills.

Right now it's a buyers market. SC goers have more power because the girls are competing for that dwindling amount of money coming through the door. "Don't want to get on the knob? That's ok, this other girl will and more."

At the end of the month strippers are complaining they need to pay rent, car payment...etc. Ok, Sweetie, the club is empty. So what ya willing to do to make rent tomorrow?
avatar for Alucard
Alucard
12 years ago
Do you have an attention deficit problem Mr Dougster? Hmm... LOL
avatar for georgmicrodong
georgmicrodong
12 years ago
Honestly, BG, I think your supposition about your approval status, possibly mixed with your personality change due to the meds, is probably the largest factor. Economics enters into it as well, and it might have happened sooner, if you hadn't been such a jerk. :))

Seriously, I think you pretty much pegged it. Without seeing examples of what your taste in women is, we really can't comment on that aspect. Verbal description only goes so far. If some of my pictures (aside from the adornment of hair, tats and piercings) appeal to you, then I'd guess you aren't too far outside the norm, if at all.
avatar for Dougster
Dougster
12 years ago
Hey, alucard, aren't you supposed to be somewhere eating someone's shit? No talking with your mouth full! LOL!
avatar for jackslash
jackslash
12 years ago
I don't know if this applies to your situation but I've noticed that younger dancers (18 to 22) think extras are just part of the job. As soon as I get in the private VIP booth, young dancers are unzipping me and getting down on their knees. One young stripper told me that lap dances were "too much work" and she would rather just give me a BJ.
avatar for canny
canny
12 years ago
Dancers aren't earning what they used to earn, but the prostitutes who work in strip clubs are still earning good money. The strippers are seeing them earn good money while they go home broke.

What do you think the strippers are going to do? The ones who need the money are going to become prostitutes.
avatar for Dougster
Dougster
12 years ago
@jack: But wait a minute. I thought Rick_TheIdiot_Dugan's "system" said to avoid the younger girls if you are looking for extras. Could it be that that dumbfuck doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about?
avatar for tvhead
tvhead
12 years ago
TLDR

:)

But seriously: "It's the economy, stupid" really holds in SC all over the country today. There have never been very many big spenders. And the middle spenders are now mostly little spenders. Like the song says: "Times are getting hard boys, money's getting scarce. If times don't get much better, boys, gonna leave this place."
avatar for inno123
inno123
12 years ago
My theory: It has been a long time since a local club, massage parlor, or whatever has been busted. Most likely it is because the local law enforcement is underfunded and as a result are focusing on violent felonies and property crimes and not paying much attention to well behaved vice.

The club gets one new dancer who is used to working extras clubs. Not really knowing (or believing) the rules she offers extras. The management looks the other way because they are not afraid of being busted and the new girl is bringing in money. The remaining girls respond in order to stay competitive.

As to the impression they are enjoying it, well honestly is is more work to have to hump and grind a guy through his clothes to completion or to reach down and give him a hand job? We are programmed, men and women both, to regard sex as enjoyable.
avatar for Alucard
Alucard
12 years ago
"I don't know if this applies to your situation but I've noticed that younger dancers (18 to 22) think extras are just part of the job. As soon as I get in the private VIP booth, young dancers are unzipping me and getting down on their knees. One young stripper told me that lap dances were "too much work" and she would rather just give me a BJ."

Hard to argue with that kind of logic! LOL

Just submit to the eventuality of it and enjoy!
avatar for JohnBuford
JohnBuford
12 years ago
I'm pretty sure I can get college credits for reading the entire OP.
avatar for mmdv26
mmdv26
12 years ago
Is this site really slow to change pages?
avatar for SuperDude
SuperDude
12 years ago
Managers want the scarce money, so they have imposed quotas on dancers. Dancers have told me that managers expect each contact with a customer to yield at least $150.00. If you don't make your quota you will be let go. Dancers must upsell and upservice.
avatar for 59
59
12 years ago
Had a dancer tell me she wasn't crazy about doing HJ's. Too messy.

Prefers to just swallow.
avatar for Alucard
Alucard
12 years ago
"Managers want the scarce money, so they have imposed quotas on dancers. Dancers have told me that managers expect each contact with a customer to yield at least $150.00. If you don't make your quota you will be let go. Dancers must upsell and upservice."

Is this just the night shift?

"Had a dancer tell me she wasn't crazy about doing HJ's. Too messy.

Prefers to just swallow."

I don't want a HJ either. I agree, too messy! A BBBJCIMWS is much prefered over a HJ EVERYTIME!!!

avatar for Clubber
Clubber
12 years ago
To keep my reply less "wordy", no comment.
avatar for gatorfan
gatorfan
12 years ago
May he never change his name to Blog Guy
avatar for mjx01
mjx01
12 years ago
you all make me jealous... service still suck (and not in a good way) where I live
avatar for looneylarry
looneylarry
12 years ago
BG, that should have been submitted as an article. If anything would qualify, that should have. And you'd get the benefit of the longer extension on your expiration.

As to the content, I'd have to say that I have seen the opposite: less service for more money. Seems like the clubs are turning the screws tighter on the girls and the girls are getting less willing to make some extra money. I don't know about an economic explanation, I'm just calling it like I see it. At least you are getting your dipstick wet, so I guess congratulations are in order. Hope your streak continues.
avatar for NOLAStripClubReview
NOLAStripClubReview
12 years ago
Book Guy, is the club mentioned in your post Visions Men's Club in NO East? I noticed you reviewed that club a lot.

If so, I have a pretty good idea of why you're seeing more ITC propositions - especially if you visit during the day.
avatar for sharkhunter
sharkhunter
12 years ago
$150 per customer? Where I live at that would shut down all the strip clubs. I never spend that much on a single dancer. I can't remember ever spending that much on a single dancer.

To answer the original question I have the answer. In the back room the dancer's got a pot going where they chip in a dollar every night bookguy visits. Whoever can get him off the most in 4 months wins the pot. New girls are not invited to join the party.

There could be one other reason, the old girls see new competition and think they have to up the ante to stay competitive. There's no telling if the new girls are getting all the richer customers and taking them into the more expensive rooms.
avatar for gatorjoe2
gatorjoe2
12 years ago
I think somebody mentioned it, but the younger girls believe it is part of the job. I went to a place (not reviewed) and was new. I bought a drink, did a 2 for 1, girl brought her friend over, the 3 of us did a vip with FS from both for 75 a piece. They were barely 21. I think because of the economy the girl's need the money, the younger ones think it is part of the job, and the police have more important issues to worry about, except in Houston.
avatar for Book Guy
Book Guy
12 years ago
Hey folks, thanks for the comments. I tried to post a few days ago, had a nice long statement going ;) but it did that thing where the internet kicked out right while it was trying to post, so I had suspected I lost it. I didn't get back here until today to check and yup, it didn't get posted, sorry.

Anyway, I really like the "they think it's just part of the job" comments. (And the, "in the back room, they're running a pool on who can get Book Guy off first" comment. Of course.) I'm beginning to believe that this interpretation, that the younger women don't really see sexual services as "out of the ordinary," is central to the phenomenon.

It still doesn't quite explain why I'm seeing best levels of increase in service from the women whom I also consider most desirable rather than least. Economically speaking, any change toward increased service at the same price would most likely appear, so I used to think, in the zone where there's the lowest demand. Which isn't the case with me. So, it's still kind-of an oddity. But thanks to you guys, it's a bit more explained, kind-of, too.
avatar for EarlTee
EarlTee
12 years ago
Ermita_Nights has it right. Ask them what's up. Obviously, you can't accept their answers as true, but considering several answers together and reading between the lines, you might figure something out.

You are correct that nothing proposed so far explains why the hottest women want your weenie and the least hot don't. You could make that part of your questioning. "You're not the only one who's changed... several of the sexiest dancers have as well. What's going on?"
avatar for Alucard
Alucard
12 years ago
Are you a sharkhunter alias? :))
avatar for jerikson40
jerikson40
12 years ago
I dunno. I've given up trying to make sense of what goes on in strip clubs. I used to think that a bad economy would mean girls working harder, but I see the opposite. And as someone here pointed out, "bad economy" is really a relative term. "Bad" in terms of the media might mean a few percentage difference in unemployment, which in real world terms might be barely noticeable in your area.

I think more likely there is a phenomenon like inno123 mentioned, and that is not enough funding for local LE's around the country, which I think is really a big factor in many areas. Some towns/cities are REALLY hurting. And busting strip clubs, which has always been a fairly low priority task in my experience, becomes virtually zero priority.

But who knows, maybe it's just a phenomenon related to your clubs, or maybe it's just you. Or maybe the club owner developed an understanding with the local mayor or police chief. Who knows?

I'd like to think that our society is far more approving of girls jacking off and fucking strangers, and the dancers are more comfortable doing it, but unfortunately I really doubt it. In fact, I feel that society is getting less and less tolerant of that kind of stuff as women become bigger players in local politics. I've seen many/most of the mileage capitals (Tampa, Phoenix, NY, Seattle, etc.) over the last 20 years clamp down on naughty strip club activities and develop/enforce 6 foot rules, etc.

Although it seems that in the last few years a blind eye is being turned to the new, stricter laws in many of those areas.
avatar for jerikson40
jerikson40
12 years ago
Hey, wait a minute...

This thread was from July !!! What's the deal??

Any way, regarding the part about the hotter dancers giving it up, that goes against every rule we were taught as kids. The hotter the girl, the lower the mileage. That's like a basic rule of humanity. Unfortunately.

However, on a recent trip to Baby Doll's in Dallas that rule was significantly bent to my advantage. So it does happen a few times in one's lifetime.
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