I haven't been in a club in 20 years and was surprised at the change. In the past, there was a separation between the customer and the girls. Now, as soon as you sit down, you're getting propositioned for everything. When did all this change?
I'd say it started with the $*(^!*&# rise of the lapdance... stripclubs became less of a show, more of a place to get a good grind on. And it went downhill from there.
Not that I would really know, when I started in the industry this change had already taken place.
Strippers has always been prostitutes. At least that's what most people think. Today many clubs allow dancers to provide more contact, but it's up to dancer as to whether or not she will have sex with you.
@Che - I talked to a world champion pole dancer who started out in the clubs 15 years ago... that's exactly what she told me too! "Stripping got ruined because of the HOES!... 15 years ago, there were no HOES. Well, there were, but the other girls would beat the shit out of them and then you'd never see them again. Now there are lots of hoes in the club."
I personally think it's also the reason why you don't see any real pole dancing in the clubs anymore. About 80% of the time, all you see is a girl standing on stage, jiggling her buttcheeks a little. Why bother? All customers care about is getting a view and seeing which dancer they think is hot enough to buy a dance from.
I guess I'm a traditionalist, but I wish clubs were still more show-focused. Imagine how awful it is to be told that the only way to make money in Vegas is to blow the manager for a good shift and/or suck some dick. Blegh.
Keep the info coming. I spoke with a stripper about this last night. She said that in the past if there were 30 girls, maybe 1-2 would do the extras. Now, out of 30 girls, maybe 1-2 don't do extras.
I agree with the comments. Not all strippers are prostitutes, but there are more who are every year and the ones who aren't hate what the ones who are are doing.
When I first started going to clubs I never got propositioned for sex ITC or OTC, ever. I took a break from clubbing for a couple years then started back up last year. Now the offers come fast and furious. The girls actually seem surprised when I decline.
I'm down with cookie, I wish the stage was more of a show than stand in front of custo, shake, jiggle, rinse, repeat.
Well, the downhill economy (i.e. since a few years ago especially) has "helped" (or "hurt" things, depending on how you look at it) as well. Girls realize that in order to make more money in some clubs they need to offer more than just lap dances, or at the very least they need to give very good lap dances with high contact. Even in some NYC places I go to frequently I've noticed that some girls give way more contact than some other dancers and they're obviously doing it because that helps foster regulars and gets them more $ in the end.
Even without a downhill economy the prospect of earning more $ will always lead to girls thinking about offering more than just a standard lap dance. Perhaps before they ever started working in a strip club they would have never considered offering more than that, but once they start working in the club there is a smaller boundary between being a dancer and prostitution, especially if other girls in the club are offering extras. It's practically a domino effect.
BTW @rfcookie - the woman in your profile is *hot*
It is hard to say when it started as each state/city seemed to evolve on its own. Back in the 70's I can't remember any contact in any of the clubs. You would usually get thrown out if you even touched a dancer's leg. I think you started to see it change in sporadic clubs around 1980. I suspect Florida may have been in the forefront. My first trip to Mons Venus in the early 80's was an eye opening experience. I think that once it started the girls realized they could make a lot of money by offering high contact lap dances. I think a lot of the dancers convinced themselves that fondling of the breasts, ass, stick shifting, etc. was not really sex so they went for it. If the high contact lap dance had not occurred, I don't think the strippers of today would make a third of what they now earn. As that realization set in and became more common it was only a stretch to go to HJ and more. Once, most, but not all, guys realized they could get much more than the traditional air dance there was no turning back. Despite some occassional attempts by law enforcement to keep things in check it seems that the process continues to move toward more and more contact. Because of the money involved, I think most dancers adjust to providing some form of sex or high contact to the customer.
Another girl I spoke with recently regarding this whole issue told me her life story. She's now 39, been stripping for 17 years. Very sexy girl. So, years ago, she was making $150,000 per year "clean". Now, it's down to more like $100,000 per year and she's doing things she really didn't expect she'd ever be doing in the club. She's working a lot harder for a lot less. When it was "clean", she felt a lot better about herself.
I'm going to add something here and say that I think a big part of this has to do with the attitudes of women and men today.
The current generation of strippers never lived at a time when free hardcore pornography wasn't the mainstream. Same goes for their younger customers and I'm sure the average older strip club patron was the first to jump on that bandwagon back in the days of dial up.
Men these days have grown accustomed to unlimited, free, extremely graphic pornography. Back in the days of titty mag vs. stage show I'm sure the stage show still had a lot of allure, but now a guy can stay home and see Courtney Cummz get DPed and Hillary Scott get bukkaked (in HD!) for free. Paying a $10 cover and then drinking $7 beers to watch a girl dance eight feet away simply isn't that appealing in comparison. The rise of the lap dance club and the rise of extras are simply the strippers and managers reacting to increased competition for the same customer base.
Another thing that I think is important and often overlooked is the attitude of girls in this environment. Girls might not watch porn as much as guys but they're obviously familiar with it to some extent and many do watch it themselves. I hate to use the word desensitize, but if you grew up in a culture where everyone has access to hardcore porn at a moment's notice, sexual taboos will start to whither away and porn consumption will become mainstream. Nowadays junior high school girls routinely give blowjobs and don't consider it sex (neither do I and I'm sure none of you do, but that's because we're products of the times). For a lot of younger girls giving a guy a blowjob or having sex, even if you barely know the guy, is simply not that big a deal.
There was an article recently about the "price of sex" for men that said this combination of men's increased demands and women's more relaxed attitudes about sex, have led to women having sex with men much earlier in a relationship and much more often outside of relationships.
The death of second wave feminism and the rise of third wave, sex positive, feminism I think also is a factor in that trend.
To summarize, I think the rise of pornography and relaxing of women's attitudes towards casual sex have increased the desires of men beyond what was once sufficient, and this increased competition has made dancers expand what they offer, with many of them more willing to offer extras to begin with due to their more casual view of sex.
When the demand for it became unbearable and when the stereotype became the expectation! That's when. Strippers are women who chose to dance, entertain, and play into your fantasies by showing you skin, stroking your ego, then sending you back off to your wife. Hookers are women who will suck your dick for a dollar and don't give a shit about the repercussions it has on your life or theirs (not to mention the club). Unfortunately, those skanky hoes seem to be infiltrating our clubs more and more these days. And due to the demand and absolute expectations for it, even "nice" girls are giving in. Personally, I think we should legalize prostitution and then stripclubs will return to being a place where gentlemen go for fun and entertainment. (and don't even try to give me the retarded argument stating stripclubs will go out of business if there were legal brothels. there are still plenty of men our there who want the stripclub experience like luv_women)
And all of you horn dogs, on here, are a perfect example of why "the traditional stripper" is a dying breed. Point in case, a dancer posts an article about how she doesn't do extras and there are 140 comments giving her shit about it! Ummmmm... guess what? I"ve been dancing for 7 years now and I have NEVER, I repeat, NEVER done extras. Before you shake your head, let me say that I've had some very satisfied customers. Yes, there are other ways in which I can make you happy other than playing with your little wee wee. I've recieved some pretty extravagant gifts to prove it. Obviously, I have to remind you that it's fucking ILLEGAL to do half of the shit you guys do in strip clubs. We're legally not allowed, nor do we want to, fuck you in the VIP. By posting your conquests on sites like these, you're poising the minds of the next generation of strip club goers. Example- Last Saturday night, this first-timer came into my club and got a dance from me. After the dance was over he looked me straight in the eyes and said, "that was great, now how much to fuck".
No offense to anyone here, but since at least 1978, when I started, there have been stripper prostitutes, and I don't really see much difference in the numbers for then to now. Sure, it's more *open* now, and easier to find as well, since the internet is a handier research tool than one's own footwork, but in terms of actual availability, not much difference, despite what some who've been around a long time maintain. There is no way that I was the first guy to trade a little green for some stripper pink.
@HottieHeidi, I'd like to point out that some of those 140 comments supported @rfcookie in not doing extras. I am one of the strip club patrons who leaves his pants on when he goes to strip clubs. My current favorite dancers are all like the two of you, they are strippers, not prostitutes.
The level of prostitution in strip clubs varies widely from to state to state. Some states such as Florida or some cities like Detroit are notorious for this (or cheered for this, depending on your point of view). In the state I operate in, the laws are much tighter and any prostitution that takes place presumably occurs off site. I have let several girls go for just implying sex acts for money.
@Che: Disagree all you want. My statement comes from my experience over the last 30 plus years in several states, including NY, PA, VA, NC, SC, MO, KS and KY. Based on that experience, the notion that strippers as prostitutes is a recent innovation, or that the numbers of such are significantly greater now than then, is frankly ludicrous.
I have no doubt that the beat downs you describe happened back then. They happen in some clubs now, so that's not surprising. More open and "acceptable" now? Yeah, but not significantly more common.
It started in 1980, the year Mitchell Brothers O'Farrel Theatre began allpwing Lap Dances. The look but don't touch barrier had been broken. Then the addition of private booths and VIP rooms made it more private. Then law enforcement decided that it was more important to clean up the streets than it was to be sure that nobody was getting any nookie for money. If the club owners kept away underage girls and sex slaves, kept out the pimps, and kept down the drug dealing it was considered better than the streetwalkers and possibly even a plus over call girls and massage parlors.
I don't get propositioned for anything except an ordinary dance. I must be going to the wrong clubs or meeting the wrong girls. Unless someone visited a club with an undercover operation going on and he kept getting propositioned by an agent that kept wondering why he wasn't taking the bait.
I can imagine it now. "Captain, we have a live one here."
Captain: "Reel him in, make the offer."
Undercover girl: makes the offer
new guy in strip club thinking: wow, clubs sure have changed. But I don't know, if she's offering me, she could have std's and be trying with everyone.
"uhh, no thanks, maybe later"
undercover girl: "Captain, we have a problem, shy guy didn't take the bait."
Captain: "ok, skip him and we'll try agent number 2"
luv_women, the level of available p4p with strippers varies dramatically based upon geography and a variety of other factors. There are guys on this board who live in more restrictive areas and have been trying to find it for years, while other guys who live in more open areas get it whenever they want it. And, of course, let's not fail to mention a few of the morons on this board who claim to find p4p with strippers on a consistent basis but, for many reasons, are quite obviously full of shit.
it's in a strippers DNA to trick off like from day one...lines can get blurred really easy..it's all relative. I mean she is working for money.If they been in the game long enough chances are they have once or will.plus with this recession more strippers are willing to do what they have to make ends meet.
The tradional stripper is still alive & well. I know many strippers that go to the club dance & then go home. Y'all can take this any way you want to. I respect strippers for who they are. Strippers are people to & deserve the same respect just like every one else.
Relax yourself Mr. Bang69. There are no strippers from your local club reading this. You don't have to talk good about strippers to earn any brownie points. This guy...
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Not that I would really know, when I started in the industry this change had already taken place.
I miss the show too, btw.
I personally think it's also the reason why you don't see any real pole dancing in the clubs anymore. About 80% of the time, all you see is a girl standing on stage, jiggling her buttcheeks a little. Why bother? All customers care about is getting a view and seeing which dancer they think is hot enough to buy a dance from.
I guess I'm a traditionalist, but I wish clubs were still more show-focused. Imagine how awful it is to be told that the only way to make money in Vegas is to blow the manager for a good shift and/or suck some dick. Blegh.
I'm down with cookie, I wish the stage was more of a show than stand in front of custo, shake, jiggle, rinse, repeat.
Even without a downhill economy the prospect of earning more $ will always lead to girls thinking about offering more than just a standard lap dance. Perhaps before they ever started working in a strip club they would have never considered offering more than that, but once they start working in the club there is a smaller boundary between being a dancer and prostitution, especially if other girls in the club are offering extras. It's practically a domino effect.
BTW @rfcookie - the woman in your profile is *hot*
The current generation of strippers never lived at a time when free hardcore pornography wasn't the mainstream. Same goes for their younger customers and I'm sure the average older strip club patron was the first to jump on that bandwagon back in the days of dial up.
Men these days have grown accustomed to unlimited, free, extremely graphic pornography. Back in the days of titty mag vs. stage show I'm sure the stage show still had a lot of allure, but now a guy can stay home and see Courtney Cummz get DPed and Hillary Scott get bukkaked (in HD!) for free. Paying a $10 cover and then drinking $7 beers to watch a girl dance eight feet away simply isn't that appealing in comparison. The rise of the lap dance club and the rise of extras are simply the strippers and managers reacting to increased competition for the same customer base.
Another thing that I think is important and often overlooked is the attitude of girls in this environment. Girls might not watch porn as much as guys but they're obviously familiar with it to some extent and many do watch it themselves. I hate to use the word desensitize, but if you grew up in a culture where everyone has access to hardcore porn at a moment's notice, sexual taboos will start to whither away and porn consumption will become mainstream. Nowadays junior high school girls routinely give blowjobs and don't consider it sex (neither do I and I'm sure none of you do, but that's because we're products of the times). For a lot of younger girls giving a guy a blowjob or having sex, even if you barely know the guy, is simply not that big a deal.
There was an article recently about the "price of sex" for men that said this combination of men's increased demands and women's more relaxed attitudes about sex, have led to women having sex with men much earlier in a relationship and much more often outside of relationships.
The death of second wave feminism and the rise of third wave, sex positive, feminism I think also is a factor in that trend.
To summarize, I think the rise of pornography and relaxing of women's attitudes towards casual sex have increased the desires of men beyond what was once sufficient, and this increased competition has made dancers expand what they offer, with many of them more willing to offer extras to begin with due to their more casual view of sex.
And all of you horn dogs, on here, are a perfect example of why "the traditional stripper" is a dying breed. Point in case, a dancer posts an article about how she doesn't do extras and there are 140 comments giving her shit about it! Ummmmm... guess what? I"ve been dancing for 7 years now and I have NEVER, I repeat, NEVER done extras. Before you shake your head, let me say that I've had some very satisfied customers. Yes, there are other ways in which I can make you happy other than playing with your little wee wee. I've recieved some pretty extravagant gifts to prove it. Obviously, I have to remind you that it's fucking ILLEGAL to do half of the shit you guys do in strip clubs. We're legally not allowed, nor do we want to, fuck you in the VIP. By posting your conquests on sites like these, you're poising the minds of the next generation of strip club goers. Example- Last Saturday night, this first-timer came into my club and got a dance from me. After the dance was over he looked me straight in the eyes and said, "that was great, now how much to fuck".
That's a long time between visits, sir! Anyway, If you want a flashback, just come visit the DC clubs.
I have no doubt that the beat downs you describe happened back then. They happen in some clubs now, so that's not surprising. More open and "acceptable" now? Yeah, but not significantly more common.
I can imagine it now. "Captain, we have a live one here."
Captain: "Reel him in, make the offer."
Undercover girl: makes the offer
new guy in strip club thinking: wow, clubs sure have changed. But I don't know, if she's offering me, she could have std's and be trying with everyone.
"uhh, no thanks, maybe later"
undercover girl: "Captain, we have a problem, shy guy didn't take the bait."
Captain: "ok, skip him and we'll try agent number 2"
Is this some kind of a joke/due to too much holiday drinking?