interesting discussion about how blacks feel that they are treated in SC. this brings up the idea of who does or does not tip at a club. I have had more than one ATF in the past tell me that blacks and latino patrons don't tip well if at all. that may be the reason that some minority patrons feel that they are slighted.. I have noticed in many clubs that the black dancers will gravitate to the white customers and ignore the black/latino customer.
I've heard the same comment from many strippers, but a few have noted that if they can choose the right ones, and break though the wall, they'll drop cash like there's no tomorrow.
I was stunned just last week to hear this exact same comment from a dancer - totally unsolicited, she was just yapping. She didn't hide her prejudices at all. I thought we were beyond this in 2011 but I guess not. She also made the comment that some minorities are more physical than she is comfortable with. Weird.
I've never tipped. I usually do LD's on the floor to see if I want to go VIP. And if I go VIP I am probably dropping a couple hundred if not more.
I am white though, so I guess that screws up the theory.
Also, I might be more willing to tip floor dances if I had one that made me think it was worth it. Honestly I never heard about tipping till a girl in VIP told me I should tip for LD's on the floor cause the place was 5 a dance... I was like okay thats a new one to me lol. I had been a regular at another club for a few months and never heard one tell me I should tip girls. Of course I never left that club without dropping 300 or more usually.
supertramp79
08/07/11 7:29 AM
I was stunned just last week to hear this exact same comment from a dancer - totally unsolicited, she was just yapping. She didn't hide her prejudices at all. I thought we were beyond this in 2011 but I guess not. She also made the comment that some minorities are more physical than she is comfortable with. Weird.
Why? Why do you assume she was prejudiced against minorities? She cares about one color - GREEN! And she is relating the facts as she knows them - after working in a strip bar and gaining real world experience. If she followed up with a comment that young college guys (white or black) don't tip well and are grabby (facts of life), would that make her a bigot too?
Need to separate a bias against going after customers who in her experience don't tip well, and being a bigot in 2011!
Well I do tip, not every time, but I do if the service is worthy of one. I have tipped on two out of my last three trips. I don't just tip for the sake of tipping. Also - I have never been mistreated in a SC, ignored sometimes, which all of us have, but I have never been mistreated.
My favorite club in Phoenix had a mix of white, black, and Hispanic customers and dancers. The majority of the girls preferred the older white men, because they had the $$ and they were more respectful. The Hispanic men were often ignored, as they were on a low budget plan. And the black guys were regarded with some suspicion, as they would "make it rain" at the stage, but when it came to lap dances, they became miserly and mostly were trying to get free OTC action. I have had dozens of conversations with dancers about their customer preferences. They typically express them from a business perspective (how can I maximize profit). There could very well be underlying racist attitudes also, but that is not the primary consideration. Now, when it comes to club management, I have been to places where management is clearly discouraging black patronage (clothing rules, music rules, and bartender indifference).
If the dance is good, the tip will be. Last time I went clubbing I got $60 worth of dances from one girl and gave her $100. I'd assume that was a good tip. But in my recent string of visits I've had 13 girls dance for me, and only 3 of them were white. The white dancers seem to avoid me for the most part. If that's because they think I'm young, black, and cheap then what a shame. I'll give stage tipping a try though, see if that changes things.
As an operator of a club, this is one of those things I watch each and every night. In general, Black customers are less likely to be good tippers in any area of the club. However, they are by far the most likely to make it rain.
well im black and i do tip.. but as ive gotten older ive gotten more in a lap mode.. i do tip but its a little more strategic than it was when i was younger and the making it rain was becoming popular ..i no longer tip if your cute and on the stage.. you actually have to put on a good performance
I notice alot of escorts refuse to see black clients. What comes as a shocker is that some black escorts advertise that they refuse to be with black men. What is that all about? Racist against their own race?
sinclair since alot of escorts are independant they feel as though its a higher risk to deal with a black man, might get raped, they might not pay .. whatever the case maybe, ive heard a story from a stripper/escort she got robbed by a black guy he paid her and then she went in the bathroom and he took her money, and 1 black guy blackmailed her to have sex with her for free or he was going to call the hotel and tell them she was escorting.. she doesnt even deal with any man of any race under 40 which is a bummer cuz shes hot
Regardless of race; even people who don't make a lot of money like titties too! They may not be able to spend $300+ at the club but that doesn't make them cheap. I think everyone is too hung up on who spends the most money. People say minorities are cheap, I say they don't have as much disposable income. If they had more, I would bet they would spend it, who wouldn't want titties in their face and for some the possibility of extras if its available.
just ask anyone who works in the food service industry. almost all of them will tell you that blacks don't tip well at all yet they are very demanding.
I have met many dancers who whine about how many Hispanic (probably meaning Mexican) men don't like to spend money. There's a good possibility they are illegals who aren't even making the minimum wage. Therefore, they probably can't afford to get lapdances. I've also seen incidents where they get lapdances, but then they don't pay up and get kicked out, probably because they are too drunk to realize how much money they are spending, not to mention everyone yelling at them in English. I'm surprised I see a lot of them at the local BYOB club, but they're not only there, they seem to be the majority of the customers early in the night, at least.
rh48hr- GOOD post. i agree with what you said TOTALLY.
i'm black, and i do tip. however, i'll admit that i don't tip as much as most of the other strip club patrons do. but it has nothing to do with my face, it's ONLY because my funds are limited. i don't have as much to spend as most other strip club patrons.
therefore, i tip what i can afford to tip. i gotta save my limited funds for lap dances :)
Black here, and have always tipped where deserved. 20% or more for drinks or food service (when good), and $10 per dance. Hell, I tipped my car sales woman $100 because I got a really good deal. I also tipped my mechanic $100 on $1600 worth of car service because he got it all done before 5pm, so I didn't have to sit around the shop on a Friday night.
I have never made it rain because I'm not flashy, and my whole mission in life is to break stereotypes.
My (grand)parents rarely tipped because they were old, and they were depression children. Despite that upbringing I learned to tip in college where my classmates worked in food service. For some people spending conservatively is a way of life, others don't have the means to spend more. regardless, if you are a professional providing a service, you should not assume every person is going to do the same thing the last person with the same skin/clothes/hair did. That's a big part of being a professional.
Having said all that, a dancer is entitled to gravitate to whomever she wants. It's her loss if she doesn't get my money. It won't be the first or the last time I will be discriminated against.
As the female in a couple I have observed a couple of things:
1) Dancers are very quick to make a determination on one or two loos as to whether they think you will be a good tipper. It is usually difficult to change that initial perception in one visit.
2) Tipping at the stage varies greatly depending on location. In the Chicagoland area, we have tipped at the stage at all clubs. In some it got us instant and constant attention. In others it did not make a difference.
3) When a woman is at the stage and receiving dancer attention, the tips increase from the male patrons regardless of ethnicity. (The exception was a couple of Japanese men who sat there all night and never tipped. They were also ignored by the dancers all night and finally asked to move by a bouncer.)
4) We have had multiple dancers in multiple locatins tell us that women were better tippers in general. Maybe because we know how hard it is to subject yourself to criticism when naked?????
5) As a general rule, the way someone was dressed WAS indicative of how freeling they tipped. In every club we were in, regardless of race, a male dressed in sweat pants, shorts or sloppy apparel did not tip frequently or well. In addition, they were the least likely to get private dances.
6) When a client was well-dressed, we observed no difference in how well they tipped or how frequently. It seemed pretty similar to us. Nor did we notice any difference in how much attention they garnered from the entertainers based on race.
7) When we first visited a club, we thought that some customers (in our case African American ones because we were on the south side of Chicago) received MORE attention from the dancers even when we did not see tipping. After a few visits, however, we realised they were receiving attention because they were REGULARS. Big difference.
8) I have seen Caucasian, African American and Latino customers all be kicked out of a strip club for inappropriate behavior or causing problems. (never oriental but that could be simply that there have been almost no orientals in the place we visited.)
Perhaps some dancers make a snap assessment based on race. Perhaps some make a snap assessment because we are a couple. I am sure customers make snap judgements about dancers all the time.
My question is: why is race what we are talking about? Why is the assumption made that is was race that caused a certain action? Perhaps there were other factors in play.
..well okay, so how do I make comments without sounding racist?
I can only tell you what I commonly hear from dancers. People of color certainly DO NOT have a monopoly are being cheap, but the general attitude among white dancers is that Hispanic customers are very cheap. They mostly are there to just drink beer and watch. Some will get dances but will try to bargain down the price. And it seems they are very "grabby" without being will to pay for it. And the dancers I have spoken to are in agreement with harrydave. They "make it rain", but rarely get dances and are very bold in seeking free OTC. (hey, if you got game, more power to you I guess)
There are plenty of cheap, young white punks too, but I hear this over and over from many dancers at different clubs about both Hispanics and blacks - but who knows, maybe they're telling the black customers that the old white guys are cheap too.
lol motorhead back in my misguided days i actually dated a stripper and she used to say the white guys that come in are too clingy .. she used to dance in a club that had alot of hispanic dancers and used to say that hispanics would never tip and only get dances from other hispanic dancers which i thought was weird..
Well, for some equal opportunity ethnic bashing, I've had dancers tell me they avoid Indian/Pakistani guys (too cheap and grabby).
There's a guy at my regular club (looks like the actor from Parks & Recreation) who has the hots for my current favorite, but she wants nothing to do with him. We were coming out of the back once and he came up to her, and she literally jumped behind me so I was between them. Yesterday we finished off her shift with a VIP, and as we were coming out the guy was there again. He called out her name, but without even looking back she yelled back "I'm off" and headed into the dressing room, lol.
I'm a white guy. I tip well when a dancer does something extra to deserve it. Very well. I don't tip when she's just doing her job. Most dancers, like most service industry folks who work in jobs where tipping is done, EXPECT to get tipped for doing nothing, solely because the boss doesn't pay a decent wage. That's BS, and not my problem. And if blacks and hispanics are "cheap" because they feel the same way, then good for them. If you don't like it, get a decent job with a decent wage.
And if something IS generally true, then it's ignorant to claim that anyone who believes it is racist. If it's true, it's true. This nonsense about "I thought we were beyond this in 2011 but I guess not" is just that. Nonsense.
It's up to the men to "act classy" so that the prejudiced dancers can be proven to have made their decisions on the basis of skin-color alone, not socio-economic behavioral and material indicators.
I love how every1 kind of blames the minority. Believe it or not, we have eyes and they work. We see how nice these dancers are to other guys and don't get a tip/dance, thn they bypass us and say we're cheap. I wonder if they think that we are not tipping because they are not being worthy of a tip. I've been to serveral clubs where the hot girls just bypass you, you end up getting a nice looking girl (just not your 1st choice), end up having a good time with good milage, spend some money on her; then later those hot girls notice you spending money then they come over to you complaining about how slow the night is going. i usually tell them that if you would have stopped by earlier I would have spent some time/money on you but you took to long to stop by.
I usually don't think the girls bypass me because of my color, I attribute it to me being unattractive or a cripple, or the fact that i don't smile. I actually don't mind when I go to the club now and thtey ignore me. I go to spend money. goal is to leave with atleast a dollar. some days it works out as planned, other not; but I'm not going to be sad about it because I lovee looking at naked women for free.
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I am white though, so I guess that screws up the theory.
Also, I might be more willing to tip floor dances if I had one that made me think it was worth it. Honestly I never heard about tipping till a girl in VIP told me I should tip for LD's on the floor cause the place was 5 a dance... I was like okay thats a new one to me lol. I had been a regular at another club for a few months and never heard one tell me I should tip girls. Of course I never left that club without dropping 300 or more usually.
08/07/11 7:29 AM
I was stunned just last week to hear this exact same comment from a dancer - totally unsolicited, she was just yapping. She didn't hide her prejudices at all. I thought we were beyond this in 2011 but I guess not. She also made the comment that some minorities are more physical than she is comfortable with. Weird.
Why? Why do you assume she was prejudiced against minorities? She cares about one color - GREEN! And she is relating the facts as she knows them - after working in a strip bar and gaining real world experience. If she followed up with a comment that young college guys (white or black) don't tip well and are grabby (facts of life), would that make her a bigot too?
Need to separate a bias against going after customers who in her experience don't tip well, and being a bigot in 2011!
Of all places, the SC is the last place for PC!
But to say that blacks are poor tippers is ridiculous. Ever seen one make it rain.
Now hispanics is a different story. Most that I see are illeagals working low paying jobs and just do not have the money.
i'm black, and i do tip. however, i'll admit that i don't tip as much as most of the other strip club patrons do. but it has nothing to do with my face, it's ONLY because my funds are limited. i don't have as much to spend as most other strip club patrons.
therefore, i tip what i can afford to tip. i gotta save my limited funds for lap dances :)
I have never made it rain because I'm not flashy, and my whole mission in life is to break stereotypes.
My (grand)parents rarely tipped because they were old, and they were depression children. Despite that upbringing I learned to tip in college where my classmates worked in food service. For some people spending conservatively is a way of life, others don't have the means to spend more. regardless, if you are a professional providing a service, you should not assume every person is going to do the same thing the last person with the same skin/clothes/hair did. That's a big part of being a professional.
Having said all that, a dancer is entitled to gravitate to whomever she wants. It's her loss if she doesn't get my money. It won't be the first or the last time I will be discriminated against.
1) Dancers are very quick to make a determination on one or two loos as to whether they think you will be a good tipper. It is usually difficult to change that initial perception in one visit.
2) Tipping at the stage varies greatly depending on location. In the Chicagoland area, we have tipped at the stage at all clubs. In some it got us instant and constant attention. In others it did not make a difference.
3) When a woman is at the stage and receiving dancer attention, the tips increase from the male patrons regardless of ethnicity. (The exception was a couple of Japanese men who sat there all night and never tipped. They were also ignored by the dancers all night and finally asked to move by a bouncer.)
4) We have had multiple dancers in multiple locatins tell us that women were better tippers in general. Maybe because we know how hard it is to subject yourself to criticism when naked?????
5) As a general rule, the way someone was dressed WAS indicative of how freeling they tipped. In every club we were in, regardless of race, a male dressed in sweat pants, shorts or sloppy apparel did not tip frequently or well. In addition, they were the least likely to get private dances.
6) When a client was well-dressed, we observed no difference in how well they tipped or how frequently. It seemed pretty similar to us. Nor did we notice any difference in how much attention they garnered from the entertainers based on race.
7) When we first visited a club, we thought that some customers (in our case African American ones because we were on the south side of Chicago) received MORE attention from the dancers even when we did not see tipping. After a few visits, however, we realised they were receiving attention because they were REGULARS. Big difference.
8) I have seen Caucasian, African American and Latino customers all be kicked out of a strip club for inappropriate behavior or causing problems. (never oriental but that could be simply that there have been almost no orientals in the place we visited.)
Perhaps some dancers make a snap assessment based on race. Perhaps some make a snap assessment because we are a couple. I am sure customers make snap judgements about dancers all the time.
My question is: why is race what we are talking about? Why is the assumption made that is was race that caused a certain action? Perhaps there were other factors in play.
I can only tell you what I commonly hear from dancers. People of color certainly DO NOT have a monopoly are being cheap, but the general attitude among white dancers is that Hispanic customers are very cheap. They mostly are there to just drink beer and watch. Some will get dances but will try to bargain down the price. And it seems they are very "grabby" without being will to pay for it. And the dancers I have spoken to are in agreement with harrydave. They "make it rain", but rarely get dances and are very bold in seeking free OTC. (hey, if you got game, more power to you I guess)
There are plenty of cheap, young white punks too, but I hear this over and over from many dancers at different clubs about both Hispanics and blacks - but who knows, maybe they're telling the black customers that the old white guys are cheap too.
lol. Not that I know anybody like that...
There's a guy at my regular club (looks like the actor from Parks & Recreation) who has the hots for my current favorite, but she wants nothing to do with him. We were coming out of the back once and he came up to her, and she literally jumped behind me so I was between them. Yesterday we finished off her shift with a VIP, and as we were coming out the guy was there again. He called out her name, but without even looking back she yelled back "I'm off" and headed into the dressing room, lol.
And if something IS generally true, then it's ignorant to claim that anyone who believes it is racist. If it's true, it's true. This nonsense about "I thought we were beyond this in 2011 but I guess not" is just that. Nonsense.
I usually don't think the girls bypass me because of my color, I attribute it to me being unattractive or a cripple, or the fact that i don't smile. I actually don't mind when I go to the club now and thtey ignore me. I go to spend money. goal is to leave with atleast a dollar. some days it works out as planned, other not; but I'm not going to be sad about it because I lovee looking at naked women for free.