Tax question

What really pisses me off is the fact that people are allowed to sit on their asses, not work, and pop out babies and working people have to pay for it. Then these people get food stamps; which they turn around and blow on junk food, beer, cigs, lottery, etc... not to mention these people usually have a much nicer car then mine.

I prefer to get my money all at once so I can put in an account and save it for a rainy day.

Damn! I'm in the wrong half of the population...

If you are a disciplined saver/investor you are probably best off owing just to the point of where you might have to pay a penalty for under withholding. You should make the money on your money, not the government. If you are not disciplined then you should probably aim to get some money back. I am not disciplined and I like to get some money back.

I believe that everyone should have to pay something, even if it is only $10-$15.

zeke's strategy is the most sensible, but getting a big check back results in a bolus of money that can be blown on strippers. So both options have benefits!

Seriously though, I have a hard time getting that worked up about some of the benefits of my taxes going to others. All of us have tax money that goes to something we don't like, but there are also things most of us want that are supported by taxes. Also, the reality is that virtually everybody is on tap for *some* taxes (obviously not federal income taxes in all cases) like value added taxes, property taxes, etc. It may not always be federal, but it still comes out of our pockets.

I may get flamed for this, but I think that all of us in the half of the population that are paying federal income taxes are in the *right* half -- the half that is actually making money and contributing to society. (Plus we have money for strippers).

"It sucks that almost half the population doesn't even have to pay income taxes and the government will give them money with credits even if they didn't pay in the first place."

Huh?? If you're having payroll taxes deducted from your paycheck, then you *are* paying income taxes, especially FICA. These people also pay regressive taxes on gasoline, aviation, alcohol, and cigarettes. I dunno that whining about a group of people that make so little money that they need not file a tax return is very constructive. The Earned Income Tax Credit only goes to low-income workers, especially those with children to take care of. I think that a better question would be:
Is it right that almost half of American households now make so little that they aren't subject to taxes??

People that get huge refunds at around tax time are likely not managing their finances properly. The govt. enjoys getting your money & then paying it back to you with no interest.

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"Then these people get food stamps"

Do you have any idea how poor one has to be to get food stamps?? You basically have to have next to nothing in assets, and, under many circumstances you are required to look for work after getting that assistance.

"which they turn around and blow on junk food, beer, cigs, lottery, etc."

You can't buy alcoholic beverages, cigarettes, vitamins, medicine, *any* non-food items, cleaning & household supplies, pet food, hot foods, or foods that can be eaten within a store (including food from fast food chains within a store or quick foods that can be heated in a microwave within a store) with food stamps my friend.

But McDonald’s restaurants in South Florida will be giving customers some financial relief on the day the 1040s are due.

Customers can get a Big Mac® or Quarter Pounder® with Cheese sandwich for just one penny when purchasing one at regular price.
Customers also can receive a free coupon book, while supplies last, with money-saving offers such as Buy One, Get One Big Mac, Mac Snack Wrap and Egg McMuffin offers, and free small frappe, hash brown and coffee offers with certain purchases.
“In this tough economy, Tax Relief Day is one more way we are bringing customers great values,” said Joe Conrado, McDonald’s co-op president for Palm Beach and the Treasure Coast.
“It has been a tremendously successful promotion in South Florida for the past eight years. Our customers look forward to it every year.”

http://bocaratontribune.com/?p=1247

^^^ I also know they are running a similar promotion in Columbus for Mcdonald's.

Now when will strip clubs start offering Tax "RELIEF" Day specials.

Easy, owe a little.

MG said, "People that get huge refunds at around tax time are likely not managing their finances properly. The govt. enjoys getting your money & then paying it back to you with no interest."

I must credit MG for being 100% correct in this statement.

Of course, the rest of his post was way off. The left-wing pols want to engender more dependence on government, and they use the tax code to manipulate behavior. They are now going to further discourage saving by raising taxes on interest income. They have attempted for a long time to present people with two choices: 1) Do nothing and government will assist you with your basic needs; or 2) Work hard and government will confiscate your earnings to give to those who choose option 1. That is a key reason why leftists are anti-American, anti-liberty, and dangerous.

let me be clear about my food stamp comment. People use the money that they save from not having to pay for groceries to afford the other things. This is also something that I see on a daily basis at the store I work at.

Taxes are the rent we pay for living in the U.S.A. And that's great. We can all have political fights about the rates, the allocations and the fairness, but taxes are a fact of life. I wish we could repeal the withholding law, enacted in 1942 to finance operations for WWII. The war emergency is over. This repeal of the withholding law would allow (maybe require) all taxpayers to escrow money in an interest bearing account and pay from this account exactly what is owed when the return is filed. Any interest or dividend earned would be tax free. No waiting for a refund, which is an interest free loan to the government.

"The left-wing pols want to engender more dependence on government"

Nonsense, we just believe in making the tax code as progressive as possible, since that's the fairest way to administer taxes. Again, don't like that idea wing-nut? Then try reading some Adam Smith.

"They are now going to further discourage saving by raising taxes on interest income."

Says who??
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"People use the money that they save from not having to pay for groceries to afford the other things."

Wrong. People who are poor (since you have to be basically dirt poor with almost no assets at all to be on food stamps in the first place) get some assistance to buy some basic necessities & then, if they have any money left from another source, they can pick & choose how to use those resources for the things that they want or need. Against personal freedom much??

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"I wish we could repeal the withholding law, enacted in 1942 to finance operations for WWII. The war emergency is over."

Tax withholding greatly eased the collection of taxes for both the taxpayer & the IRS. It's about doing what is most efficient in govt. services, which is a key progressive movement value. The idea of federal tax withholding goes all the back to the Civil War.

MG asks, "Says who??"

Says our president. 2.9% on interest, dividends, annuities, royalties, and rent payments.

how,

Next liberal invention, a tax tax. Works this way. If you pay a tax then you obviously have money, and therefore you need to pay more tax! So we have the tax tax.

Don't give the anti-American left any ideas, Clubber...

how,

I would bet that something similar to that idea has already been talked about in liberal/socialist circles. Nothing worse in this world than someone with something they can't control.

"2.9% on interest, dividends, annuities, royalties, and rent payments."

LOL...you mean the extra Medicare tax for rich people that was recently passed in the health care reform bill?? Please, that's a progressive tax in action. Those households that are earning $200,000-250,000+/year can well afford that small tax increase on unearned income beginning in 2013. Oh, whoa are the rich...not!

I for one think that it would appease many taxpayers like myself, that we have the recipients of wealth redistribution actually have to perform community service/work for their benefits.

Well www.cnbc.com has an article on this topic today. I forgot about all the payroll taxes I pay. They claimed for an average middle class American, the percentage of payroll taxes you pay is roughly 10 percent of your pay (unless that was payroll plus local and state taxes). Payroll taxes I believe go to pay for social security and medicare/medicaid. I believe I read only about 10 percent do not pay federal taxes which is different than not paying federal income taxes. For some reason, the article did not make me feel better. It reminded me that somewhere between 6 to 10 percent of my pay I never see because my employer uses it to pay payroll tax. If our government wanted to provide some stimulus spending, they could just say for two years, they'll cut the payroll tax in half and require the savings be added to our paychecks. Then in two years I could gripe about my big pay cut. In the meantime the sudden cash influx would cause a big spending boom among all the cash strapped working folks. I know this will never happen since I believe our current government only wants to add taxes.

Just in case the link disappears, here it is.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/36498521

"I for one think that it would appease many taxpayers like myself, that we have the recipients of wealth redistribution actually have to perform community service/work for their benefits."

Brillant idea! Too bad they already basically implemented it...in 1996...ugh...
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"I forgot about all the payroll taxes I pay"

...and don't forget that many of them are regressive taxes.

"It reminded me that somewhere between 6 to 10 percent of my pay I never see because my employer uses it to pay payroll tax."

LOL...do you really think that your employer would just *let* you have all that money if they didn't have to pay it out in taxes (which you basically get paid back in spades when you become eligible for SS & Medicare)?

"I know this will never happen since I believe our current government only wants to add taxes."

Anyone that thinks that we're going to be able to get out of the mess that we've gotten ourselves into at the federal budget level over the last 30 years or so without *any* tax increases is living in a fantasy world, period end of story.

From that CNBC link:
"The answer is that tax rates almost certainly have to rise more on the affluent than on other groups. Over the last 30 years, rates have fallen more for the wealthy, and especially the very wealthy, than for any other group. At the same time, their incomes have soared, and the incomes of most workers have grown only moderately faster than inflation.

So a much greater share of income is now concentrated at the top of distribution, while each dollar there is taxed less than it once was."

"The reason is that poor families generally pay more in payroll taxes than they receive through benefits like the Earned Income Tax Credit."

"There is no question that the wealthy pay a higher overall tax rate than any other group. That is an American tradition. But there is also no question that their tax rates have fallen more than any other group’s over the last three decades. The only reason they are paying more taxes than in the past is that their pretax incomes have risen so rapidly — which hardly seems a great rationale for a further tax cut.

So why are those radio and television talk show hosts spending so much time arguing that today’s wealthy are unfairly burdened? Well, it’s hard not to notice that the talk show hosts themselves tend to be among the very wealthy.

No doubt, like the rest of us, they don’t particularly enjoy paying taxes. They are happy with the tax cuts they have received lately. They would prefer if other people had to pick up the bill for Medicare, Social Security and the military — people like, say, firefighters, preschool teachers, computer support specialists, farmers, members of the clergy, mail carriers, secretaries and truck drivers."

I find it amazing that no matter how many times taxes are CUT and tax revenues go UP, there are the same idiots that do not get it!

Leftists generally try to affix the label "greedy" on those who disdain higher taxes and wealth-redistribution. So I ask you:

Which is more greedy?
1. To seek to keep more of what one has rightly earned,
or
2. To seek to take from others more of what one has not earned?

"I find it amazing that no matter how many times taxes are CUT and tax revenues go UP"

What I'm *not* amazed of is that blind Right-wingers will *never* get it when it comes to their failed supply-side nonsense.

As a Governor, Reagan approved tax hikes to balance the CA budget. According to the U.S. Treasury, the net effect of all Reagan-era tax bills was a 1% *decrease* in govt. revenues.

http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/tax-polic…

The GWB tax cuts for mostly the rich have cost the federal govt. around $2-3 Trillion so far.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/…

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/s…

http://www.brookings.edu/articles/2004/0…

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/0…

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=vie…

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1018
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"Leftists generally try to affix the label 'greedy' on those who disdain higher taxes and wealth-redistribution."

Sometimes, but the main issue here is tax *fairness* & the return of fiscal sanity at the federal level.

Again, since you guys apparently refuse to read up on Adam Smith (no surprise there), here's a quote from him:
"The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state."

Smith even specifically named taxes that he thought should be required by the state...like taxes on luxury goods taxes & rent. He also believed that people should pay taxes at the time "most likely to be convenient for the contributor to pay it".

Smith also famously said:
"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

That's right wing-nuts, the father of modern economics was a champion of progressive taxation.

Why should Adam Smith's statements be directive in the United States? Why not Marx? Roughly, "from each according to their ability; to each according to their need."

Regardless of who said what, there is plenty of proof that supply-side economics works because its assumptions more closely match reality than the assumptions for demand-side. In reality, people tend naturally to take care of themselves and their loved ones before giving to strangers, however generously they ultimately may do so. That's just the way it is, and a model that assumes that's the way it is will perform better than one which assumes the opposite.

per Margaret Thatcher:

"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

MisterFascist, do you seriously believe anyone clicks on your links?

YAWN!

Getting back on track- I pretty much agree with zeke. I'd rather write a check AFTER money owed has had a chance to accrue interest and divideds vs giving govt. an interest free loan for a yr.

minnow,

Makes no sense to do otherwise. Withholding, what a devious way to confiscate others property. There would be a REVOLT in this country if there was no withholding and those of us that do pay taxes had to write a monthly check to Uncle Sam.

The tax code is approaching 8,000,000 words long. Thus, employment for IRS agents, accountants, lawyers, and "tax relief specialists." But all those words are about manipulating behavior: if you do this, we'll give you a break; if you do that, we'll tax you more.
Simplify the tax code.
Eliminate deductions and loopholes.
Reduce the overall rates.
Amend the constitution to require term limits for the legislators.
As a result, government revenues will increase, and decisions from congress will be generally more sensible.

how,

"...decisions from congress will be generally more sensible." Lots of room to be more sensible then there is to be less sensible. :)

"Why should Adam Smith's statements be directive in the United States? Why not Marx?"

Guilt by associated eh? Those tired, old tactics don't work anymore wing-nut. Progressive taxation has a loooooong history in the USA. Your random ramblings about it is *never* going to change that, period.

"Regardless of who said what, there is plenty of proof that supply-side economics works"

...because the last two times that it's been tried by two different GOP Presidents (when either Party was in control of Congress) it's actually FAILED miserably. If you like ballooning the federal debt & deficit and further widening the gap between rich & poor, then voodoo economics is the way to go!

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"Withholding, what a devious way to confiscate others property."

No, what a very efficient way to get the govt. the money that it needs to do things on daily basis.

"There would be a REVOLT in this country if there was no withholding and those of us that do pay taxes had to write a monthly check to Uncle Sam."

Tell that to the people that run their own businesses and/or have to make quarterly tax payments to the govt. for whatever reason, moron.

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"Reduce the overall rates"

...and balloon the federal debt & deficit even more!

"As a result, government revenues will increase"

...by more voodoo magic, not...

YAWN!!

MG's claims are factually false. Like all evil leftists, he's also a shameless liar. All leftists are aggressively anti-American, and they are worse-than-worthless pieces of trash whose only possible positive contribution to the universe would be to depart it, immediately.

how,

They also make excellent poster boys for idiocy!

"MG's claims are factually false"

...beacuse you said so...lol...

"Like all evil leftists, he's also a shameless liar"

...because, of course, you said so...lol...

"they are worse-than-worthless pieces of trash whose only possible positive contribution to the universe would be to depart it, immediately."

More death wishes for you political opponents, eh "how"?? You certainly are one fine far Right-wing lunatic...that's for damn sure...ugh...
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"They also make excellent poster boys for idiocy"

...and the truly ironic posts from one of our resident old fools continue...wow...

Yawn!!!