Comments by Papi_Chulo (page 32)

"... Gwinnett is interesting. As far as I know there have never been clubs there ..." IDK much about the local-laws in those areas; but if a county has never had a strip-club; especially in an area like ATL w/ a ton of clubs; one would assume it's b/c they want it that way.

I don't think we'll ever find out the depths of "Orange Man Bad" shit the establishment has done - we are likely only seeing the tip-of-the-corrupt-iceberg

This is why we need the Dems out of power - the Dems have colluded w/ big-business; big-media; and social-media; to do w/e the fuck they want legal or not - the FBI and CIA are doing shit they were trained for decades to do to hostile regimes overseas and have turned those techniques domestically to those they don’t agree with. We need DeSantis in power – I liked Trump’s America First policy and like all he accomplished in 4-years; but he was a political-outsider and was subsequently checkmated by the swamp including many in his own party – they’ve tried to do the same to DeSantis but he’s more able and skillful at being a politician than Trump and more experienceed w/ the inner-workings of politics.

Looks like you were being hustled - dances here have typically been $20 which is the DFW norm and what is stated in the club's TUSCL page.

DC clubs are high-cost low-mileage; not the place for any monger worth his salt. I'm a variety=guy that is mostly into getting dances and not much of a drinker - so I don't buy drinks for dancers too-often but even then I've gotten burned sometimes with dancers ordering very-expensive-drinks - I usually pass when a dancer asks me for a drink; if she's my type I tell her I rather get some dances and sometimes may buy her a drink post-dances if she gave me good-dances and she asked for one - I'm also not the type to sit and chat and drink - but in the event I agree to buy a drink for a dancer; I often ask how much it will be, not bc I'm cheap and don't like spending $$$ bc I often spend pretty-well; but bc some girls take advantage and order expensive drinks they would o/w not order/pay for themselves. I probably wouldn't mind as much if a dancer wanted an expensive drink and let me know ahead of time it was gonna be expensive and if it was ok if she ordered it; but when they order something expensive and don't tell me, makes me feel they are taking advantage.

Sometimes checking w/ the non-dancer staff about dance-prices can help on getting a straight-answer and not getting upcharged.

A better description of the girls would be helpful (looks; ages; builds; skin-tone; natural or enhanced; etc). Are most girls Indonesian or are there foreign girls also?

This is a BYOB club so they charge a higher-cover than the alcohol-selling-clubs – but $35 cover is $teep especially for a dive-club – I lived in Dallas in the 2000s and the cover here was usually $20 back in the 2000s (sometimes less during the week; and maybe $25 if one went in past 2am) – when I lived there in the 2000s this was mostly a weekend club and on Fridays/Saturdays there’d be 3-dozen+ dancers and they always had a stage-rotation going-on (I usually just visited Fridays or Saturdays nights) – back then it was a mix of Latinas (non-Cuban Central-Americans); black-girls; and some white American girls – I was back in Dallas in late-2018 and the club seemed to have switched mostly to Cuban-girls (in the 2000s I never met a Cuban-dancer in this club or any other Dallas club but now they are all over Dallas); on my 2018-visit I think the cover was $25 but not sure – back in the 2000s this club was always a rough-around-the-edges but I don’t recall any weed-smoking inside.

ATL black-clubs can get expensive at night; b/w parking; cover; and a drink; one is down about 50-$makcs b/f getting your first-grind – I like hitting black-clubs and I used to hit ATL from out-of-town 1x to 2x per year from to 2014 to 2019 but I usually stuck to dayshift (late-afternoons around 4pm) since there was usually no-parking-charge and either no-cover or reduced-cover charge – I also found that often times nightshift the mileage was not as good and it could often be more of a party-scene. “… I counted 5 or 6 dancers in different areas of the club (including the front bar) “rolling up”. I mean had the whole bag of weed sitting on the bar rolling a blunt! Wtf is this place? …” Yeah – I don’t like that shit either – after-all it's supposed to be a place of business – the now-closed legendary Follies was infamous for this – I’m not a smoker (either regular cigs nor weed) thus it’s a turn-off for me – it also comes across as some of those girls being more interested in getting-high vs providing-service which IMO is not good as a custy (unless you’re into that I guess). Pin Ups in Decatur usually ran a pretty-tight-ship and I don’t recall that going-on – that was about the only ATL club I liked hitting at night when I used to visit ATL but I haven’t been to ATL since pre-Covid – from what I've read Pin Ups changed ownership so IDK the club’s current vibe but I haven’t read it’s too hood (I think they have changed their schedule and may be closed early-in-the-week but not sure).

^ getting ripped-off in strip-clubs is very-easy – one is on their turf and the girls know all the ins and outs of the club from being there multiple-days per-week over months or years; whereas a custy can often be totally unfamiliar w/ a club either b/c he’s new to clubbing; doesn’t club often; or is hitting a new area – and why info on TUSCL is necessary in order to go from a strip-club-chump to a strip-club-champ 😊 If a girl does a good job and one wants to tip; that’s a good thing IMO – but it should be up to the custy and not b/c the girl is overcharging – also; if custies don’t hold-the-line; then over-charging becomes the norm and why one should be informed and not overpay – at the end of the day the price is the price – the custy shouldn’t be trying to underpay; and the dancers shouldn’t be trying to overcharge – if one feels the dancer went-above-and-beyond and one wants to tip; cool; but not cool to be being overcharged from the get-go and being taken for a sucker.

“… As to pricing, durations, etc., I can only recount what I saw and experienced--and it was my third visit. Perhaps my experiences have been atypical. But those were what I got, so I stand by the key points of my review. …” No one doubts that is what you got – the comments by others more familiar w/ the club is to let others know how to not overpay; that is what the reviews are for, to inform us custies – going-by/paying what the dancers tell you is at best a crapshoot and often a way to be overcharged if one is not informed. w.r.t. the stages – there are two stages but it can be kinda easy to miss the 2nd-one – there are two bars; a smaller-bar close to the entrance; and the bigger/main-bar just past the 1st-bar – the main/bigger stage is in front of the main/bigger bar; the main-stage typically has 3-dance-stations but given the # of dancers working that night it can be two – the way the main-stage works is that a dancer starts at the farthest-end (side nearest the dance-booths) for the 1st-song and that song is typically fully-clothed; for the 2nd-song she moves to the middle-dance-station of the stage and goes topless; and for the 3rd-song she moves to the other end of the stage and goes full-nude (when there are only 2-dancers b/c it’s slow they may just do 2-songs; one topless and one nude). The other/2nd-stage; is in front of the first-bar as one walks in – it’s a small stage w/ a single-dancer (vs the main-stage that usually has 3 unless it’s slow) – the two-stages are close to each other and the small-one can be easy to miss depending on where one sits; also the 2nd-stage may not be in use when it’s slow; i.e. if there are only 2 dancers (instead of 3) on the main-stage; then there’s a decent-chance the smaller-stage is not being used.

“… the private rooms are $30 per song but that's in most of the review so I figured it was clear by now. The bigger room I think is $20 per son but I never go in there …” Always kosher to state the club-basics (dancer looks/types; costs; typical-mileage for the place; etc) – usually the only people that know that info already are people that are already familiar w/ the club – and often times people are reading reviews b/c they are not familiar w/ a particular club either b/c they are newbies or they are visiting a new area etc. Stating prices in a review also avoids those not in the know from getting ripped-off/overcharged by dancers b/c they didn’t have that info going-in – may not be an issue at this club since AFAIK dances are payable to the club-staff vs the dancer; but it’s an issue at many clubs - it’s also good to let readers know this club works differently than most clubs in that dances are by time (4-minues= 1-dance) vs by song and that you don’t pay the dancer but pay the club/staff at the end (except for w/e tip you wanna give her or have arranged w/ her).

In addition to what I stated above – given my battles in these types of clubs with over-counting/charging dancers, I also started using the stopwatch on my cellphone to keep track of the songs – when I get to the club, b/f I get dances I time a few songs to get a feel for how long the songs are being played – then when I get dances w/ a dancer; I kickoff the stopwatch to keep track of the songs so I can be more sure of the count for when a girl may be trying to over-count me. When I get to the club, I time a few songs – if the songs avg let’s say 3-minutes – then when I get dances – if I got dances for let’s say 10-minutes; that lets me know I did 3-songs – after doing this I’ve never paid an over-counter again – in the past I wasn’t always sure of the song-count so I tended to pay the overcharge as long as it wasn’t egregious – but after I started timing them; I have never paid and over-count again – most times when a girl tries to over-count-me and I show them I’ve been timing the songs, they usually back-down (again many assume the custy to be distracted and clueless) – but some of these girls are hardcore ROBs and don’t give a f*** and will try to shake down custies no-matter-what. After I started keeping-track-of/timing-the songs I’ve never paid an over-counter again and I rather leave the club that pay a ROB – staff/bouncers know these girls rip-off custies; but since they were not there during the dances they don’t know what really happened so they often (but not always) take the side of the dancer; the key is to stay calm and explain your side – even when doing this it may not necessarily work b/c many of the club staff/bouncers seem to have IQs in the single-digits; and sometimes they may even be in cahoots w/ the dancers since the dancers tip them; but there have been times where I’ve calmly explained my side and even shown them I time the songs w/ my stopwatch that the staff has left me alone. I use to club my ass off in the past (mostly pre-Covid) mostly in small black clubs – I’m also a variety-guy in that I like to hit different clubs and get w/ as many different-dancers as I can (vs sticking to a single-fave or dancers I know) and this I feel leaves me open to running into ROBs so I’ve had my fair-share of battles in the clubs with ROBs and at some point I had to start instituting the things I’ve mentioned above to try and mitigate that shit.

Strip clubs sorta work on the “honor system” which can often lead to problems depending on the dancer/club – on this “honor system” one has to hope the dancer is honest about the song-count and about the dance-price – I mostly hit small/dive black-clubs and I’ve learned to have to dot-my-i's and cross-my-t’s from the get-go when I hit clubs like these. My M.O. these days is to: 1) “confirm” the dance-price upfront; and by “confirm” I mean you *state* the dance-price upfront; vs ask the dancer for the price – asking often leaves one open to getting overcharged b/c many girls will assume you’re asking b/c you don’t know – so if a dancer approaches me for a dance I say “$10/song right” (assuming that is the club price); vs asking the dancer “how much are the dances” – I try to know the price of a dance b/f I hit a club but in case IDK I will try to ask a staff person and likely better chance they don’t lie to you since they are not the ones giving you the dance 2) IME in small black clubs; there can often be issues w/ the song-counts b/c the “DJs” can often cut-songs-off at any time and it can often be hard to tell when the song-breaks are – so my M.O. is to tell the dancer upfront b/f we start to let me know everytime she starts a new-song – even with this some dancers will still try to overcharge your ass (SMH); but telling her upfront to let me know everytime she starts a new song usually cuts-down on the over-counting since we are both on the same page and the dancer knows I’m keeping-track (many dancers seem to count on the custy being distracted w/ the dances or not being able to tell the song-breaks) ATL has a lot of air-dance clubs and that air-dance-shit seems to sip into the contact-clubs also – thus as part of my pre-dance-negotiation I do a short “pre-dance-interview” – b/f we start dances I do #1 and #2 stated above and also b/f agreeing to dances I ask the dancer: a) do you grind? b) do you mind your boobs being touched? These are the min I expect from a dance – if I don’t get a “yes” to both, I pass – sucks to have to jump thru hoops even when one is willing to spend; but especially in ATL-AA-clubs I got tired of wasting my $$$ and time by agreeing to dances and have many of them turn out to be shitty air/low-contact dances that I didn’t like.

“… My girl took me to a darker corner and started telling me what her dances were like ($15/song) …” I think you got overcharged – unless it’s recently changed; dances here have never been more than $10 – pre-Covid it used to be that on dayshift dances were $5; then went up to $7, seems now they are $9 – pre-Covid this (and most clubs in the area) had issues w/ the city; subsequently (pre-Covid) the club had to change their dayshift-hours – unless something has changed; dayshift here lasts till 10pm given the change in club-hours thus b/f 10pm one should be paying dayshift-dance-prices which last I read I think had gone up to $9 – even on nightshift (post-10pm) I doubt they are $15 b/c they’ve never been that expensive but I’m not sure of the nightshift post-10pm price these days – if one is a first-time-visitor then either read reviews and get straight on the dance-price; or ask a staff-person; asking a dancer usually leads to getting upcharged b/c the dancer will assume you’re asking b/c you don’t know and thus they can overcharge you. “… I left my phone in my car …” You should state why you did this for those not in the know – i.e. the club does not allow cell phones inside – so either one leaves it in their car; or the staff holds it for you when you are paying your cover. “… Entering the place you are in a small well-lit restaurant area where people were just milling around and it wasn't clear who was security and who I was supposed to give money to …” In the past, as soon as one walks inside the building, there was a table to one’s left with a girl or two sitting there that were in charge of taking the cover. ‘… I usually like to talk to the girls a bit and make them laugh, but this girl was up front about just wanting to give me a dance …” Every club has it’s M.O. – clubs like these with cheap dances (compared to other clubs around the country that can have of up to $50 dances) the girls need to make their $$$ and can’t be wasting time (unless you are tipping them to hear your jokes) – while they are listening to your jokes they can be missing out on other custies ready to spend; or they are unsure if they sit there listening to your jokes if you will spend $$$ on them in the end – hood-clubs are not big on socializing – these girls have to pay the club to work there so they are in-the-red going-in and need to make $$$ and sale-dances vs listening to jokes – not saying no-dancers in a club like this will sit and shoot-the-shit; but don’t necessarily expect-it. “… I only had large bills on me, so after she left, I figured I'd get some change. This turned into a overly complicated transaction where it took like 3 people to get me the proper amount ,..” When hitting low-end-clubs like these, one shouldn’t expect great, or even adequate, customer-service – i.e. when hitting clubs like these, one needs to go in prepared especially when dance-prices are an odd # like $7/$8/$9 like it has been in this club in the past (vs a club where dances are an even/easy # like $20; etc) – in clubs like these one needs to go in with small denominations and don’t depend on the dancers nor staff for change (or much else). “… We talked a bit more and decided to visit the VIP room. $20 to get in for 10 minutes is what she said, and I was pretty sure that she just made that up, but after we went in we weren't keeping track of time. After the $20 entrance into the VIP you pay for any dances in it on top of that …” AFAIK – VIP has always been for the length of 3-songs (unless it’s changed) – I assume the club does this b/c there is only one VIP room and don’t want one custy hogging-it-up while other custies/dancers may be waiting for it – AFAIK one can pay the house $40 instead of $20 for the use of the VIP-room and get it for the length of 6-songs instead - most custies that do the VIP-room do it for extras – kinda not much sense to pay for the VIP room to get dances like one does on the main-floor – IDK about now; but pre-Covid some guys got extras for as low as $40 or $60 on top of the VIP room fee so I assume something in the $100-rage for the girl would do for most girls that are down.

This review has misleading/incorrect info: Floor-dances (barside; tableside) are $10/song although many of the girls are colluding to charge $20 – so if getting a floor-dance best to *state* upfront “$10/song right” – I say *state* b/c if you ask then good-chance you’ll likely get upsold – floor-dances can sometimes be full-nude (kinda depends on the dancer). Private/VIP dances are $25/song – these are done in shared-booths that are curtained – there are 2 dance-stations per booth but a divider in b/w each station so decent privacy but you won’t get anything more than 2-way-contact – these dances are only topless. VIP is done in a similar booth to the $25-dances I described above but the booth is not shared so basically full-privacy – b/c of the low-# of single-rooms, “generally” the club limits their use to 3-songs; I say “generally” b/c it seems the 3-song-limit is mostly enforced at night when the club is busy (perhaps on a busy dayshift also); but may not be enforced when the club is slow (you can double-check with the dancer if you are able to communicate with her given that most don’t speak much to any English). There is *no* fee to use the VIP/single-booths – the way it works is that if doing a $25 song in the shared-booths; the girls have to give the house $5 out of every song they are in there – if dong the single-both which is usually 3-songs; the girl has to give the club $25 – it’s the *dancer* that has to pay that fee; not the custy; and why traditionally the going-rates for VIP have been $125-CBJ/$225-CFS so the girl keeps $100/$200 after paying her $25 to the club – just like there are a lot of girls overcharging for the floor-dances and charging $20 instead of the club-price of $10; there are many-girls that tell the custy he has to pay the $25-fee that she has to pay for the room which is a lie since she is the one that has to pay the club – if she does a good job in VIP I guess one can throw in the $25 as a tip but that is not a custy fee is a dancer fee *she* has to pay. The going-rates here for VIP/extras have traditionally been $125-cbj/$225 CFS – again it’s always best to *state* the price vs asking – if discussing extras with a girl best to *state* “$225” rather than ask – most guys that are very-familiar w/ the club that is what they pay; they don’t ask for a price; asking often leads to an inflated-quote b/c the dancer will assume you don’t know the costs if you’re asking – dancer-competition in this club is fierce and there is also Booby Trap down the street w/ extras-prices in the $200 to $250 range meaning most girls at DDs will take the $225 if you state that price.

Describe the VIP (costs; privacy; comfort; etc). What's the name of the other club that looks like it was recently open)?

Most dancers dance for the $$$ (obviously); but a lot of them hate their “job” (like many people). Dancers hanging in the dressing-room could be several-things: + the dancers feel there are not enough-custies ($$$) in the room worth their effort so they rather stay in the dressing-room and not have to deal w/ customers which most of them don’t like doing anyway and mainly do it b/c they have to – so they “escape” to the dressing-room to not have to deal w/ doing something they don’t like doing to begin with and rather wait in the dressing-room till there are more custies ($$$) in the club for them to put effort into hustling + a lot of these girls use “substances” and sometimes they hit the dressing-room to take a “smoke (substance) break” + some girls like to go to the dressing-room after being on stage or giving-dances in order to freshen-up Many of these girls aren’t the smartest nor have the greatest work-ethic; if it wasn’t so good-chance they’d be in another line of work or working in corporate-America – it is what it is – as a custy all one can do is be aware of what it is and learn how to navigate these environments vs just leaving up to the dancers and hoping they do the right thing.

Well - at least it wasn't Floriduh this time

Wow - I hit this club on 2 occasions pre-Covid in some of my ATL trips - once on a weeknight and once on a Friday afternoon - seemed like a fairly-chill environment but if memory serves me correctly the parking lot was kinda dark at night and AFAIK ATL crime seems to be surging in the last few years.

Seems like a low-ROI place where one pays a lot and gets very-little - most clubs that are mostly groups and couples are often gonna be the types of clubs where dancers expect $$$ merely for the honor of you being in their presence.

Custies kinda do the same – i.e. there are times when custies make judgements-on/avoid a dancer based on perhaps how she carries herself or her facial expression etc even if the dancer may be his type and that judgement can be correct or incorrect But in general; dancers don’t tend to turn-away $$$/sale$ - along the lines of what @Dolfan posted, it’s rare I’ve had a dancer approach me and then leave – it’s happened; but I can probably count on one-hand those instances in the 1000s of dancers I’ve interacted with – a dancer cutting dances short may happen *slightly* more often but again can probably count on two-hands the times it’s happened in the 1000s of dancer-interactions (probably b/c I’m a variety-guy and rarely look to lock dancers-down – I’m usually looking-forward to experiencing another dancer). Along what others have mentioned: + one’s demeanor – I tend to be a glass-half-empty/worry-wart/type-B-personality and this sometimes is reflected in my demeanor where I’m unaware I’m giving off a “don’t fucking talk to me” vibe; this is rarely b/c of what’s going in the club but more something that’s bothering me in my personal-life – a smile can make a huge difference in someone’s appearance + given I’m a dorky-looking-whiteguy that happens to be into big-booty-ebonies; not uncommon for dancers that fit this profile to not approach me in a club b/c they think they won’t be my type - have had a few dancers tell me this along the lines of “I saw you sitting there but didn’t wanna approach you b/c I didn’t you’d go for me” (they eventually approached me once they saw me getting dances from dancers that looked like her or just saw me getting w/ multiple ebony-dancers period) + I guess age-difference can *sometimes* be a factor – but this can often cut-both-ways – there are dancers that may feel uncomfortable dancing for PLs that are her grandpa’s age; and there are dancers that actually don’t like dancing for younger-guys and prefer the older-guys (and not only b/c the older-guy may have more $$$; but also b/c the older guy may be easier to get along with; etc)

No silver-bullet per-se – there are multiple variables such as: + how many club-options are there in one’s metro-area (some areas don’t have a lot of options so one is kind locked into a “beggars can’t be choosers” dilemma) + a PL’s “clubbing style” – is the PL the type to enjoy hitting different clubs for variety; or is the PL the type to like finding a club they like and sticking to it + etc I think many of us form an “attachment” to certain clubs given the good-times we had in them over-the-years – the club then starts changing (for the worse) and it can often takes us some time to finally accept it’s no longer the club is used to be – at first when the club starts changing one can think “it was just an off day” or “maybe I just wasn’t feeling that day” etc – but if the bad/meh visits start outweighing the good-visits then it’s likely the club is trending in a bad-direction vs it being “an off day” or “we just weren’t feeling it that day” etc. Along the lines of what has been posted already: 1) go w/ “no expectations” and have a backup plan – that backup plan can be planning on hitting another club if the club is not doing-it for you; or just calling a night vs staying there for 3-hours hoping it’ll get better 2) as others have mentioned – clubs can often turnover – not only w.r.t. dancers; but also management – sometimes a shitty-manager can drive away dancers and single-handedly fuck-up-a-club 3) trying different shifts – again not only different dancers and a possibly different vibe – but also different managers dancers may prefer (there are cases where dancers won’t work certain shifts when a particular-manager in on duty) As I’ve often posted; I’m a variety-PL thus I like having multiple-clubs in a rotation – there is usually a club(s) in-my-rotation that I like/hit more than others; but I like to jump around to different clubs in the rotation – sometimes I may add or take out a club from the rotation; in the case I take a club out of the rotation I’ll usually poke my head into that cub every 3 or 4 months just to see how it’s doing but when I do I go w/ low-expectations and a backup plan of hitting another club or just bailing if the club is still not to my liking. One should also consider taking some trips to clubs in other areas/cities if one has that flexibility (but of course this is not as practical as clubbing locally).

"... when I brought my first house, mortgages were at 8% ..." Housing-affordability has at least two components to it (for most people) - the price of the house - the interest-rates - back when you bought your first house at 8% house-prices were likely much lower and thus ownership likely more attainable even at 8%

The website below shows rents vs income since 1985 (graph is halfway down the webpage) - the gap is obvious/significant: https://www.realestatewitch.com/rent-to-income-ratio-2022/