Drama...

"I have nothing good to say about AA."

Welcome back! :) Supposedly, over in the UK the treatment is the exact opposite of AA and is much more successful. The AA people that I met seemed to be in horrible condition even if they by chance they were sober; especially those who believed in the organization.

Welcome back Shadowcat! I have no idea what what you went through is like, but you were missed on here. I'm glad you're back!

Best of luck in staying "on the wagon", and welcome back!

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Welcome back. Hope to make it to Platinum Plus during one of your upcoming visits. You can now order a water for both of us.

Welcome back Shadowcat. Hope all goes well for you with retirement.

Wel-cum back, & Happy Trails in your "retirement". That is one helluva run that you had.

good luck on your recovery...

I missed you and I am very proud of you for taking the road to recovery. I will be next to you 2 out of 3 days on your trip pushing water and coke in your face..lmao...xoxoxo

The absence of your commentary was noticable and did give some pause. So welcome back. As far as AA goes, I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder. I know I can quit drinking anytime, it's striip clubs I would have trouble letting go of! But I have a friend who is an alcoholic who has been sober for 15 years who is also a big believer in AA. In confidence he mentioned some common, successful business acquaintances who also attend AA meetings--and supposedly it has kept them sober, focused and productive. Personalaly, I don't know if I could go for the stand-up-and-spill-it-out-for-an-audience-formula. So I emphathize with your dilemma. Do what you think works best for you. Stay sober, stay focused, but don't give up the fun. They can still co-exist.

Thanks for the support, everyone. Especially gridget and Helena. If I could only see two strippers, they would be the ones. Helena called me last night and says that she is going to call again tonight, to check up on me. See gridget's latest review. Call me a PL, if you wish but I and the guys that have met them, will call me a lucky man.

Since only the rich get to retire... congratulations!

Well if you don't want to help yourself by getting help, then there is not much of a chance of your staying on the wagon. Rehab can only do so much-the rest is up to you. I'm disappointed in your attitude toward AA. That foretells a lack of success in staying dry IMO. I hope I'm wrong. It'll be good to have you back & hope to see you ar PP in the near future. Good luck in y9ur struggle.

BTW, welcome to retirement world. I'm sure you'll love it. Now you can go to PP any damn time you feel like it and stay as long as you like-or until your money runs out!

If succumbing to AA mentality is a necessary for freedom from addiction, then I'd much prefer the addiction. Even a fire and brimstone hell might be better than AA and their mindlessness self-righteousness.

Here is a link for some alternatives to AA: aanottheonlyway.com .

I had watched a documentary on alcoholism treatments and the moderation approach was supposed to be very effective in the UK. The AA approach was pretty much dismissed because its 12 Steps are a canard. You don't have to believe in God or the Pink Unicorn or heaven forbid even AA! You may actually have a mind that can be used to think and reason and find an approach that works for you. Tom Hussey told me that he was a miserable failure with AA and to save his life he couldn't stay away from the bottle. He found his miracle cure by accident----Prozac. The way he described it was truly a miracle. I could go out an drink with him; beer, wine, shots and have a blast. I'd never have thought of him being an alcohol or a drunk. He told that if I'd known him before Prozac, then I'd had a totally different picture of him. Before the miracle he had to drink and after the miracle it wasn't a big deal one way or the other.

For those of you who have a very strong stomach or who are more open minded than I, here are the 12 steps of AA:

The 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous

1.) We admitted we were powerless over alcohol--that our lives had become unmanageable.

2.) Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3.) Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4.) Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5.) Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6.) Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7.) Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8.) Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9.) Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10.) Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11.) Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12.) Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

aa-louisiana.org

Shekitout, I have known you for 6 or 7 years. You and 3 other TUSCLers that I see regularly at the club are non drinkers. The rest including my ATF can drink responsibly and know when to stop. I used to be that way until 2 years ago. The "trigger" was my company switching us to 12 hour shifts. Too much for my old person. I have to believe in my self. No program will work by itself. I won't be alone. I have good support from friends and family. Will I ever drink again? who knows. Hope to see you next month.

Jablake, for once I agree with you. AA is not the answer for everyone. They say that you do not have to believe in a GOD but all of it's doctrines make constant reference to a higher power. The "Big Book" was published in 1939 and has not been revised to eliminate this reference. Trying to interpret the Big Book is like trying to read the bible. What do they mean by that? They brag about their success rate. Yet by my own observation and what I have read, I doubt it seriously. I grudgingly did step 1. The head of social services in my ward and the M.D. that I met with 22 times were never alcoholics and never did the 12 steps but yet they preached it to me. Why? They were getting paid to do so. As were for the most part, the other 20+ lecturers that I was forced to listen to. I was given a list of 20+ AA meeting groups in my area. All were in churches. Surprise?

So what did I get out of rehab? I enjoyed the fellowship of the meetings. I learned more about street drugs than ever before. Hearing the stories from my fellow addicts made me realize that I am much better off then the rest of them.

Wow, I had no idea AA was such a load of religious crap. So what's an atheist with a drinking problem supposed to do? Use reason and self control? What a concept.

A couple of the dancers I know have over come some form of addiction and now are either working in or working toward a social service career. Shadowcat, come on up to NY and I'll hook you up with a good dancer and councilor all in one!!! It always help if your been there before. Absolute best of luck, I know you can do it!

AA must of mellowed a little over the years. The AA adherents that I met many years ago insisted salvation and hope and sobriety were only available by the grace of God.

I can't imagine enjoying that kind of fellowship. I'd probably spout whatever nonsense was demanded to be free of their BS.

OTOH, if a person is into that one size fits all mentality it might "save" 'em.

If it doesn't work for you, fuck AA.

Least you're trying, better than most of the drunks I know.

Hoping I'll get down to columbia some time this summer when you're gonna be round.

I imagine that even when I was young and religious that I would have found AA repulsive and disgusting. Hard work, honesty, empathy, punish not unless ye be punished, many roads to Rome, turn the other cheek, help thy neighbor, protect thy family, etc. were tesselates of God's design as I was taught.

Commanding and approving powerlessness like a grown man or woman is an infant? I guess that is someone's religion. Don't care to be near it much less have it shoved down my throat. AAers that I met also had a perversity concerning "enabling" that was even more sickening. Damn straight I'll be an "enabler" if to fail to help will bring catastrophic or permanent harm----sometimes you need to protect people that have a particular need or weakness even if that protection is only partial or temporary.

Long ago I made the statement we are all sinners and surprisingly met some extreme objections. I had thought that sin was self-evident even to the most goody two shoes angel, but it turns out that was merely a religious teaching. And, these goody two shoes in my eyes are some of the worst sinners even though they seem to have no idea that their acts are evil. Most seemed only capable of seeing their evil if the tables were turned so to speak.

Fuck AA----that is a positive sentiment for most, imho.

I haven't visited here too much in the last two weeks. Welcome back shadowcat.

Ritalin ...