Stripper Turn Offs...How Not To Be That Guy...

49 comments

• how

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  16 years ago

  This customer agrees that your list of don'ts is reasonable, and should be common courtesy. Another customer mistake that surely must turn off dancers: odor. Clean up! No cologne is necessary (and may be a turn-off itself), but BO is repulsive to everyone. And bad breath is something to avoid as well. Brush, floss, rinse, and use gum or mints if needed.
• Book Guy

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  16 years ago

  Love it when women initiate an interaction with a set of assumptions about how a guy has to behave ...
• FitMegan

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  16 years ago

  I agree with 'How'..... And to 'Book Guy', I understand that you are the customer, and maybe the customer is always right, but SOME things just simply aren't worth the money. I believe she was just trying to help your experience to be a more rewarding one. After all, we ALL do have choices, and it IS supposed to be fun, right?
• Dudester

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  16 years ago

  1)I don't lecture, but I am curious about the girl. If the girl tells me a little about herself, it enhances the fantasy. 2) I don't like the heels/platforms that clubs require girls to wear. If they do have to wear them on the floor, by all means take them off for the LD. I won't tell on you and I'd prefer that neither one of us gets injured. 3) Don't use force on LD's. I've had girls bang me around and bruise me. A LD should be slow and sensual. During the LD, if I get kitty in the face, I want to look at and touch the kitty-not a closeup of a thong. 4) Greetings are difficult. I prefer that a girl ask me if I want company, not instantly hit me up for a dance or start some kind of sales pitch. If I welcome you to my table and you give me GFE, I'll buy you a drink. Soon after, we'll do the dance of love. A fantasy is enhanced by seduction, not a sales pitch.
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  Now why on earth would anyone give a fuck about what a whore thinks about anything?
• ozymandias

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  16 years ago

  I just treat everyone with a certain basic level of respect - it's easy, easier than being an asshole, actually, everyone appreciates it, and it just makes like in general a smooth ride. Anecdotally, I've noticed that people who are pretty happy and contented treat others with respect; people who don't respect themselves tend to be disrespectful. Again, just my observation, and while there are exceptions, it holds most of the time. Sort of an Occam's approach to interpersonal relationships. O.
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  Oh gee, I may care because the whore is interesting or intelligent or inlightened. :) Perhaps if I viewed selling sex or sizzle as inherently negative then I'd have a negative view of whores. Now, to the question is this a job that I'd want my daughter to do? Gee, if she isn't forced directly or indirectly it ain't a problem in the least.
• giveitayank

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  16 years ago

  Sweetie666... I have done this in the past and you might consider it a turn off. I have gotten up out of my seat, walked over to a dancer and asked her, "When you get a chance, can you come over to me? I'd like to buy some dances from you." Usually, the dancers were receptive to it because I never used physical force, only a verbal request. I guess it's like the old saying... You attract bees with honey not vineger.
• Philip A. Stein

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  16 years ago

  Sweet T, look around here, we're not amateurs. We certainly know the basics of club behavior.
• giveitayank

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  16 years ago

  Phillip Stein... You have a point. Most of the guys here, with the exception of one dumbass who goes by several different names, know the rules and follow them.
• casualguy

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  16 years ago

  True, we are veterans of strip clubs here. However I'll give sweetie a thumbs up for one of her first posts here that I remember. I don't mind more females posting on here.
• deogol

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  16 years ago

  Laughable thread.
• uscue13

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  16 years ago

  I like seeing the perspective of a female on here. Whether you like what she said or do it or not, I always find it interesting to hear a dancer's side. In the end, you'll do what's worked for you all this time but still interesting to read.
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  jablake: "is this a job that I'd want my daughter to do? Gee, if she isn't forced directly or indirectly it ain't a problem in the least. " Sometimes jablake makes very insightful posts and sometimes he is completely full of shit. This time, I think it's the latter.
• deogol

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  16 years ago

  The dancer's side is always "What is the least I can do to get dollars." For some of the more idiot posters here the dancer's side is always "What is the least I can do to get dollars while playing this fool for a friend."
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  Hi Bobbyl, Do you think that I'd care if she posed nude? Nudity of children or adults rates a big zero as far as importance, imo. The big reason to keep people covered----at least my understanding of why modesty was important was 1) Health (don't want shit stains everywhere) and 2) The typical person looks like shit without clothing (especially Americans). In this society even nude cartoons of children might earn you a long prison term (hint: this is a prison state). I can't relate to any hyperventillating regarding nudity. It seems like something some religious nuts or "flag wavers" get upset about. Now sex is, imo, a lot different than simple nudity. The risks include disease, pregnancy, family instability, psychological inadequacy, etc. However, some people don't share my views regarding sex; surprise, surprise. Some people think of it as like eating ice cream or enjoy a good drug trip. If my daughter viewed sex like a healthy young male, then that is a negative??? Yes, I don't believe in the equality crapola. However, imo, a normal healthy young male pretty much is an eager beaver for sexual adventure. I see NOTHING wrong with that. The more sex for a hungry male (regardless of age) for the most part the better! Sex is GOOD. This society is shit. :) So, why would I hold a different standard for my daughter? Disease is a good reason---but, hell that even applies to males. Pregnancy is a good reason---but, imo that also applies to males. The big difference would be marriage. The government managed to turn me 100% against government approved marriages. So therefore why should I be upset if my daughter has the sex drive of a young male??? Remember----she isn't being forced directly or indirectly to dance. That is the key. If it is something she likes i.e. being a party animal that sure as hell sounds better than being a typical wage slave or even sitting at home being a virgin. I guess that I just don't have any real belief in anti-sex morality; just an excuse to put people in prison. :( Now, if marriage was still important then I'd be singing a different tune as far as my daughter being a dancer or being overly interested in multiple males. I like dancers a lot----in general. Now, I don't know the upper class dancers. They probably have the same prison state mentality at the typical freedom hating American.
• Book Guy

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  16 years ago

  Fascinating. It was somehow understood, when I posted a reasonable negative generalization, that I was unreasonably negative, AND that my generalization was meant to apply in particular to a situation to which I did not necessarily apply it. Chick logic. Humph. OK. I'll put it plainly. 1. This is a service industry. The "job" of the man, in the interaction with the woman, is, simply, THAT HE HAS NO JOB. She can either accept him as her customer, or not. 2. If the woman has some idea about what a man is "supposed" to do in this industry, then she should: See 1. Ever heard of a car dealer getting all hot under the collar about how a customer "just doesn't know how to treat us right"?
• chasman

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  16 years ago

  Sorry Book Guy, but that attitude of "the customer is always right" only comes from people who've never _had_ a customer. You can be pretty sure, however, that they have had their food spat in, their "Grey Goose" poured from the well, their number of dances miscounted, and their questionable credit card charges upheld as legit. However, rude, stinky, sour pusses are my favorite strip club customers. Their money may not be any less green than mine, but their vinegar just makes my little bit of honey that much more attractive to the dancers.
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  jablake: It looks like you've changed your original position from not being to forced to enjoyed it. A few points: 1) you are rationalizing what you think you ought to feel, but how would you really feel if the situation was real? 2) very few whores actually enjoy their job. They are mostly doing it to fuel drug addictions, due to past sexual abuse, because they got knocked up and screaming babies they need to feed, etc. I would put the ratio of whores who enjoy their job over those who don't at 20:1. Personally, I've met only one I actually thought enjoyed her job. Many will lie and say they do, but try getting below the surface to see what is really going on. (I think too often the posters here aren't trying to look behind the curtain, but just taking what's going on on stage at face value.) 3) Women are more prone to STDs than men. About twice as vulnerable for HSV and HIV. I'm not sure the stats on the other one, but I'm sure they are higher too. Plus your typical whore is going to be fucking orders of magnitude more guys than your player son would. It's easy for a whore to fuck 1,000+ guys in her career. How many guys have sex with that many women? I have no trouble believing it's less than 1 in 1000. Even 1 in 10,000 won't surprise me. 4) There are more psychological consequence for highly promiscuous women than they are for men. Part of it is certainly cultural, but, and if David9999 were still here I'm sure he could explain it well, there likely is a biological basis for women to shy away from sex with loads of men compared to reasons for men to. So, yes, I suppose if there was a whore who truly enjoyed her job, and was intelligent and insightful, was informed about STD risks and willing to take the calculated risk that we shouldn't have a problem with her, and we might even care about her thoughts about things. Such a creature is about as likely as a black swan, however.
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  "jablake: It looks like you've changed your original position from not being to forced to enjoyed it." Same position i.e. if my daughter "isn't forced directly or indirectly it ain't a problem in the least." So if she isn't being forced, then it seems to follow that she enjoys it.
• Book Guy

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  16 years ago

  And now the desperate-to-please-girls-who-appear-on-the-board sycophants arrive. I never said the customer is always right. I didn't even imply it. Rather, I IMPLIED, that it's idiotic to initiate an interaction with a set of expressed expectations which both are likely to ruin the mood, and are likely to indicate a failure of appropriate customer-service attitude among the service providers. In other words, don't be a princessy bitch, ladies.
• ozymandias

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  16 years ago

  Aside: the classical sociobiological basis for female sexual selectivity is "biochemical cost", specifically that women have a potentially much higher ATP* expenditure for a sex act (carrying a child to term and then raising it to maturity) than men do (busting a load). It's an idea which is largely discredited mechanistically as a basis for cultural sexual selectivity, but like some other "discredited" theories (somatype theory of personality, for example) I'm pretty convinced it has at least some effect. ... That said, I still say it's just easier to e nice and respectful to people... I, at least, save ATP that way ;) O. *ATP is Adenosine Tri-Phosphate, the biochemical form of energy in cellular metabolism
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  I'll play the odds. Most stripper's can act nice the first minute (some can't even do that) but you quickly find it's an act and that, ultimately, they aren't worthy of respect. Therefore, they will be treated skeptically at first. Most (but not all) college professors, by contrast, are, ultimately worthy of respect. Therefore I will be optimistic with them, until they prove me wrong. In both sets there will be exceptions, and I'll trust my judgment to let me know when I've encountered one and then change course.
• ozymandias

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  16 years ago

  I should clarify that I don't have any sort of innocent presumption of "respectability" for most groups of people, and certainly not for those that toe the line of legality or "decency". Nevertheless, I tend to be very cordial with all people, treating them with respect (this isn't the same as respecting them) until they give me a reason not too. In honest self-assessment, this isn't altruistic on my part, but selfish - it's just easier and more pleasant for ME to be nice and respectful towards people. Even strippers and prostitutes. Not drug dealers, I'll admit: I've never had anything but naked antipathy towards people whom I knew were drug dealers. I like making them feel guilty and worthless. Incidentally, probably half the people I know are either college professors or institutional researchers of some sort - I might even say there's a higher level of villainy among them than the population at large... it's the competition for all that grant money, that and being the first to get a paper in ;) O.
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  ozy: "Incidentally, probably half the people I know are either college professors or institutional researchers of some sort - I might even say there's a higher level of villainy among them than the population at large... it's the competition for all that grant money, that and being the first to get a paper in ;) " Well ozy you are on record as saying you find strippers more virtuous, on average, than the population at large. So clearly your sense of ethics is rather inverted. Hence the "villainy" you see in professor, due to this inverse, is probably what normal people would consider virtue. Either that, or most likely, you are just being silly and completely full of shit.
• ozymandias

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  16 years ago

  Evidently reading comprehension isn't your strong suite, BobbyI. Let's see. First, I never mentioned virtue (quite different from ethics) at all, so I can't have made a comment on strippers being more or less virtuous than anyone. I also never compared "strippers" with "the population at large" - I compared "professors and institutional researchers" to the population at large, and did so sans context per strippers. Moreover, I did so in a clear spirit of levity, which you, not surprisingly, missed. In fact, if you read my posts *carefully* (maybe you can blow the print up so it looks like a children's book) you will see that I state that (i) strippers are less respectable than the average person, but I treat them nicely *anyway* because it pleases me to do so and (ii) it could be inferred from my mention of professional academics that they may be more "villainous" than the population at large simply because of the pressure of inordinate ambition. If you have never worked in academia you have no idea how egoistic and ambitious academics can be - just last year at an American Philosophical Society meeting there was an actual brawl, complete with a broken champagne bottle as an improvised weapon, over whether Kant's critique of Swedenborg was really a veiled attempt to explore mysticism himself... these guys take this stuff seriously! BobbyI, you seem to regard yourself as smart and somewhat educated but, I hate to say this, you aren't, and it's sad to see your juvenile posturing here on a STRIP CLUB forum, with your weird exhortations against "Mistergay" and fantasies of "I win again!" You're the local clown, which I and others surely appreciate, but please stop trying to overstep your role. I wish I could present this post as a series of explanatory drawings for you - so that it might be clearer - but it's just not an option. Please try your best to understand, and of course slowly reread my prior posts. If you need clarifications, by all means, don't hesitate to ask! O.
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  ozy: It was in another thread that you said the strippers were more virtuous than the general population. Forgotten already? Now in this thread you are changing your position on that. Not to surprising since you are just being silly and full of shit as I said before.
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  ozy apparently a little mad after I pointed his gay threesomes with parody and MisterGay, and exposed his trollism here. Too funny!
• ozymandias

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  16 years ago

  I think you'll need to provide a link to that post, Bobby... can't make that claim without a citation. Now, unlike you, I make actual posts of substance and have discussed a wide variety of topics, so I certainly don't recall every post I've ever made... ... but Google does, and an "advanced search" via Google of this domain, attaching my username and the words "virtue" and "vituous" don't turn up any posts. So I invite you to find that post; if you do, I'll retract by accusation of functional illiteracy. O.
• ozymandias

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  16 years ago

  By the way, you just revealed what everyone assumed - that Dougster is another userid of yours. You posted your "threesome" post as Dougster... and then replied to your own post and basically had a conversation with yourself. Priceless. Creepy, but priceless ;) O.
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  ozy: oh, man this is so basic. There are synonyms for "virtue" and "virtuous". So what if such a search doesn't term up anything? There are also implications. Typos? But I guess logic isn't your strong suit. Let me spell it out: If you said the "the sum of two and two" in a post, a search for "four" isn't going to turn it up, but it's equivalent. Duh! Anyway, pretty shitty "proof" you have given here. Shows how "intelligent" you are. (not!) I will say you are a step from parody and MisterGay though. It remains to be seen if you are njcsfan level. I'm hoping. As I said the board needs a better troll. Given your performance in this thread though, I'm not holding my breath. Finally, I have better things to do than comb through all the threads here looking for exactly which one it was. In any case you have already admit my point: that you are silly and full of shit, so what would be the point anyway? (Hint: it was the thread in which I ask if you would trust a random person or a stripper to watch over $2,000 for you. You being your usual silly, full of shit, troll self and claimed you would trust the stripper. Please!) Sorry you are such a dumb fellow ozy. Back to your gay threesomes with parody and MisterGay!
• ozymandias

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  16 years ago

  Such vitriol, Dougster! Calm down... everyone already knew, anyway. O.
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  Didn't take long for you to tangle yourself up in contradictions, ozy. I will give you some credit though. MisterGay was so careless he would often tangle himself in contradiction in the same thread, or often even in the same post. In your case, it was at least cross thread. As I say, at least you are a step up from him. But still it was easy to tangle you in your contradictions and show how FOS you are. Let's see if you can do better in the future.
• Book Guy

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  16 years ago

  Ozymandias and I are on the same page on this subject. You can describe the initiation of this thread in one of two ways, I think: 1. A woman posted on a man's bulletin board, about what she dislikes about men. 2. A stripper posted on a strip-club-goers' bulletin board, about what she thinks strip-club-goers ought to do differently. If you were profoundly and ineptly convolute, you might try to rationalize this thread as, instead: A. A helpful person thought that someone out there needed some advice. (In which case, the thread could instead be entitled, "To people of whom I disapprove: here is how to better yourself" and the patronizing attitude would be more self-evident). -or- B. I have expectations and I want them met. (In which case, the thread could instead be entitled, "To people who aren't giving me what I want: CONGRATULATIONS! Now you no longer have to read my mind in order to please me!" And again, the attitude would be clearer.) In any event (1, 2, A, or B, above) the upshot is problematic. I've lived long enough to have learned, that a man who wants to please a woman should almost NEVER listen to what a woman says she wants. Even when the women think they're being honest and straightforward (which is seldom; usually they just lie about wanting a "sensitive" man in order to have more lap-puppies under their control), even then, they're still wrong-headed. So, there, your choices will be: I. I am a woman and now I say what I want you to think that I want: candy, chocolate, sensitivity, open-mindedness. (Never mind that I ACTUALLY respond positively to, and fuck, aggressive arrogant males with a hint of testosterone and a genuine sense of ability to cheat on me.) II. I am a stripper and now I say what I ACTUALLY DO think that I want: charm, sense of humor, hygiene, respect. (Never mind that I I take anyone's money as long as he isn't a total troll.) So what we have here, folks, is classic chick-logic. I warn you all about it, and I'm done. And, on the Dougster-to-others debate: I've had them all on "ignore" for so long that I didn't even know they were posting here. :)
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  "Not drug dealers, I'll admit: I've never had anything but naked antipathy towards people whom I knew were drug dealers. I like making them feel guilty and worthless." I view them as freedom fighters and heroic even if they're only motivated by greed or supporting their family. Praise the Lord that their are big balled gentlemen such as Al Capone who actually do fight for freedom. I like freedom whether it be strippers/prostitutes, card dealers, drug dealers, gun dealers, or whatever. Please NO sob stories about addiction. I've seen first hand how horrible alcohol addiction is on my mother's side of the family. I've also seen other lost souls who seemed or who were destroyed by other illegal drugs. Royalty, the goofball, was a very sweet dancer who died very fast do to her addiction so yes drugs can be very damaging and even moreso than death to some people. :(
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  "A. A helpful person thought that someone out there needed some advice." Yes, I viewed it the most favorable light. There are newbies who read this board and besides even experienced clubbers might appreciate a few tips. Perhaps if I knew more upscale strippers, then I'd have a more negative view.
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  Just for fun I actually read the OP's post. It's stuff even a newbie would find obvious (e.g. don't use physical force = big duh!). I'm not sure why she wasted time posting it, or why the points are seen as exceeding the banality required to merit a response. Seriously, if someone didn't get the points so basic before she posted, they are lost causes and her post is surely not going to make them see the light. Re: drug dealers Pretty slimy in general. A rare few will actually take pride in the quality of their product, and they are the real free fighters. Some illegal are good!
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  *Lecture me about my life plan how "sure everything's great today and you're cute now but in 10 years..." Seriously, who the hell cares? I know you don't. And anyway, my tits look good tonight and they're in your face so shut up and enjoy the moment* When you assume they don't care that seems logical in general. In general being the key delimiter. I did care about about the beautiful stripper who was addicted to cocaine. What could I have done to help her? Probably nothing. She loved cocaine and it was going to extract a high price from her. Anyway, that was a sweet person whose big "crime" was wanting to feel pleasure. And, I also care about strippers who can't manage a checkbook or who can't read. Why? Well in both cases it seems like a solution is at hand that doesn't cost too much and could really help the person greatly in the future. It is sad to see a dancer lose her beauty where that is all she knows. Why do I care about the children next door? Well, again it seems like a very limited investment e.g. buying childrens books could help big time. I still remember those children thinking that I'd be eager to help support their government school----NOT even when hell freezes over. In their minds because I care about them that somehow translates into supporting their government school. Anyway, I can care about strippers and school children. To a more limited extent I care about homeless bums. I gave this one some Cuban pastries and after being suspicous he practically got himself killed running into the street with joy! I've never seen a person so happy with a few pastries. What did I say that convinced him? I explained that I'm FAT and that I just bought the pastries (minimum purchase required) to see what they tasted like. ( They're good! :) ) And, that he was doing me a favor by eating them since I didn't want to add anymore blubber, but I hate wasting unless it is gasoline or some other supposedly "scarce" commodity. "Wasting" "fossil fuels" is good. :)
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  "(e.g. don't use physical force = big duh!)." Hardly a big duh. You must go to a different type of club than I do. Also, some dancers love physical force. Wimpy men or men who are afraid of spilling a little blood disgust 'em. Gambling dancer expects a real man to be violent and surprise surprise the men in her family have long histories of violence.
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  "A rare few will actually take pride in the quality of their product, and they are the real free fighters." One of the nicest that I knew always preached just SAY NO!!! He had a fairly low regard for drugs mainly because they're a waste of time and money and also because there is a small risk that that a person might be an addict and lose big time. Never bought any drugs from him and mainly just shot some pool. The strippers users and non-users thought he was the greatest. He was part of that "looks are irrelevant" cult, which I have antipathy for----because they don't care about looks then everyone must really feel the same deep down. :(
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  There's physical force (unwanted) and then there's initiative (wanted in some cases). Obviously the OP was talking about the former. You need to able to read the vibe to determine what level of initiative she wants and if you're compatible with that and not go to the opposite extreme. Dancers will give feedback. It's often non-verbal. If you ignore it that's what's going to be the turnoff. Maybe there are ones who are going to put signals re: physical force which are completely the opposite of what they want and they want you to blast through anyway. I think the chance of that happening *** with a customer *** is, oh, around 1 in 9,000.
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  On average I think strippers want to be in control, at least in the club and with the vast majority of their PL customers. It's part of their psychological makeup. OTC is a different and, not surpisingly opposite, story. Then it's usually more like "ok, fuck me in the ass. now cum on my face" etc.
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  "There's physical force (unwanted) and then there's initiative (wanted in some cases). Obviously the OP was talking about the former." It isn't always easy to tell the difference between unwanted and wanted. And, there can be a huge gulf between what a dancer says she wants and what she actually wants. When I still a teenager I used force against this adorable hottie at the local dive/bar (yes, there was crapola even then about minors being in bars, but fortunately for me that BS was largely ignored) and there was a very minor brawl (her friends and others trying to protect her). The police even showed up. The hottie thought that *I* was the greatest--not afraid of rejection nor willing to back off with a simple NO. Her friends just couldn't see it or even understand. The old No means No BS. The police couldn't even believe it at first. Anyway, I read her pretty good and if I was wrong then I'd definitely feel very bad and probably have spent some time in jail. If I had actually believed my advances weren't wanted, then I'd have backed off fairly fast. Some women are like me in that they're look based or have other strict requirements and if I don't qualify, then I'd rather move on and not waste time or create resentment and hostility.
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  "I think the chance of that happening *** with a customer *** is, oh, around 1 in 9,000." I think you need to be spending some quality time at Angels or the VIP assuming you don't mind a little violence that comes with the turf.
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  "On average I think strippers want to be in control, at least in the club and with the vast majority of their PL customers. It's part of their psychological makeup." Sounds like upscale strippers because I sure ain't met many. I wouldn't have any interest in dominant women or I should say I haven't found any that interest me. Some men love that shit and ain't nothing wrong with that, if that is what they like. I prefer a more girly girl. I think if I was going in for dominance, then I'd want to meet a tough man. Anyway, I find the whole equality nonsense about as appealing as democracy or god. Fortunately, I've had little experience with dominant strippers. What an erection eliminator. :(
• BobbyI

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  16 years ago

  jablake: "Fortunately, I've had little experience with dominant strippers." Too bad, b/c they are the opposite of that OTC. Remember the strip club is all theatre: don't take it at face value.
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  Too many of these hos have a problem with acting because they're use to brain dead customers who think it is the real thing. All you need is a few brain dead customers who think they're in love to quickly get the dancer out of GFE mode for everyone. Unfortunately, for me, the dancers would rather just provide extras or OTC. Gambling dancer was an exception with the GFE because she was ice cold toward any customer so stupid as to fall in love for real. Another, ace for her is that her male relatives aren't exactly peace loving hippies. Get too aggressive with her and the pain of love will not only be of your mind, but of your body as well. Also, you get a much different view of a stripclub if you are going every day spending hours and hours and hours there. More than a few men have told me that'd get bored going too much. Not a chance. Even when a stripclub is bad, I want to stay. It is just a question of budget and now also noise pollution.
• how

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  16 years ago

  I suppose I just don't enjoy the thought of behaving the way Sweetie described in her list of "don'ts."
• jablake

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  16 years ago

  "Let the dancer show you the goods and guide your hands," For the most part the advice she gave seemed reasonable, but I don't like dancer's guiding my hands. I'm paying for a service and that isn't my idea of a fun time to have the dancer guiding my hands. I just don't care for dominant dancers. I get enough of that pitch on Star Trek and other popular programs pushing a masculine vision of women. It is definitely way past time to raise the white flag of surrender if you need to be depending on women to do your fighting. Or, better yet President Reagan had the right idea of declaring victory and then running like hell. :)