Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities…

Agree, absurdities like "trans women are women."

Um, Puddy Tat, what atrocities exactly is that leading to?

I think what CJ Kent was angling at are things like

Believing the absurdity that election was stolen -> Atrocities like Jan 6th

Believing the absurdity that our country is overrun by immigrants -> Atrocities like the 2019 El Paso shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_El_Pa…

^ Of course autistic liberal troll would say that, and you would deflect.

Jan 6 was a rally that got out of hand. 11 million illegals is a fact.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell, 1984

Why did you put this in the front room?

Silly me, I watched the video. Dead cops, dead rioters, violence on Capitol grounds. But it was just "a rally that got out of hand." Trump requested that they come armed, knew they were armed, tried to circumvent Secret Service security by requesting that mag-detectors be arranged differently, directed them to storm a government building, stated overtly "we're all going to go down there," tried to get down there himself, did it in order to stop certification of the valid election results, announced clearly that he wanted Pence to not certify the election, stated all of this in no uncertain terms, but somehow the people who DISAGREE with Trump are the ones living in an Orwellian sense of denial? Which Party?

I'm not a huge fan of Democrats. Illegals are also a problem, though they kill fewer than White Christian nationalists do annually.

You can't whitewash an insurrection.

From a centrist, I'd say that the quotes, "trans women are women" and, "Jan 6 was a rally that got out of hand" are nearly equal in their level of delusionality. The difference is that Trump is a real danger, and a trans is mostly just delusional.

“You can't whitewash an insurrection“

—
But to be fair….


The palace coup staged by Obama / Pelosi / the California elites was just that also. They disenfranchised millions of voters and installed a Queen whom no one ever voted for.

@book guy - no dead cops, one dead rioter who probably didn't need to die.

When you don't have much to run on, go back to grandmothers with flags and pooping on desks as the great danger to society.

No one cares anymore, bro. Give it up ;)

> 11 million illegals is a fact.

It's an estimate provided by DHS not a fact. Nonetheless, that's hardly being overrun in a population of 350 million.

And it's hardly a new phenomena. What that stat reflects more than anything else is congress's failure, for decades, to pass meaningful immigration reform.

If you could disappear those 11 million people into the night, as the GOP proposes in it's platform ("MASS DEPORTATIONS NOW"), it would be disastrous for our economy. We'd have inflation like in Venezuela. It would mean deporting people who are building new homes, serving you food at restaurants, picking strawberries in the hot sun.

And most relevantly, it would include deporting those hot cubanas from the club.

Finally, what I was angling at more with the prior comment (and I could have articulated this better) is that the absurdities that Trump would have you believe about immigrants stokes real violence, like the El Paso mass shooting. For a few examples:

Trump has claimed immigrants were "poisoning our blood": https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-el…

He's said immigrants are "not people" https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/…

And in the run up to the El Paso shooting he called immigrants "invaders" and "killers": https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli…

Anyway, next time you're in the club getting a dance from a smoking hot Cubana you want to deport, you should consider the Orwell quote you posted.

@ron - I'll admit, I think little about mass deportation because it's not going to happen, legally or operationally. Trump says a lot of bombastic shit, but we've seen what he has ACTUALLY DONE and I didn't see some mass roundup of immigrants nor any major effort in that direction. At one point he proposed that if Mexico didn't do their part that he'd tax remittances. That and other economic measures would stanch the flow without having to triple law enforcement to accomplish that.

Those 11 million are demonstrably straining social services and committing crimes (shit. No serious person disputes this.

None of what you said is as patently absurd and undemonstrable as saying a man can get pregnant.

@Puddy:

> Those 11 million are demonstrably straining social services and committing crimes (shit. No serious person disputes this.

Damn do I dispute this. Immigrants aren't eligible for virtually any social services, that's been federal law for decades: https://www.law.georgetown.edu/poverty-j… And they commit less crime than native-born Americans do. https://www.npr.org/2024/03/08/123710315…

"Illegal immigrants increase the size of the U.S. economy/contribute to economic growth, enhance the welfare of natives, contribute more in tax revenue than they collect, reduce American firms' incentives to offshore jobs and import foreign-produced goods, and benefit consumers by reducing the prices of goods and services." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_i…

> I'll admit, I think little about mass deportation because it's not going to happen, legally or operationally.

Here's literally the first two planks of the GOP's platform: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/document…

1. SEAL THE BORDER, AND STOP THE MIGRANT INVASION
2. CARRY OUT THE LARGEST DEPORTATION OPERATION IN AMERICAN HISTORY

Remember that Orwell quote?

I can tell you haven't read 1984 or the context of what is an "absurdity." Contradicting a party platform isn't it.
The chocolate ration (chocrat) has been increased from 30 to 25 grams.
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
The border is closed.

Denying things you can see with your own two eyes.

Illegal immigrants are straining schools and emergency rooms, I'm not even talking about welfare. But here's one Orwell would approve of... immigrants encouraged by government funded groups to apply for asylum that they knowingly do not qualify for.

If you want to say they keep prices down, you have to acknowledge why. They keep wages down. Whatever happened to making things in America? Jobs for Americans? Of course these tendentious sources you cite are going to gloss that fact over.

Commit less crime? How about this crime: they are in the country in contravention of American law. They are all criminals. Every murder, robbery, or theft they commit, would not happen without that first broken law. Or are you going to say the likes of Laken Riley would just be murdered by an American? LOL!

The real benefit though is that they'll get amnestied (as is already being talked about, that like Big Brother and its past statements, they deny until they do it) and vote Democratic. If they wouldn't, that border would be sealed tighter than Fort Knox.

Mass deportation is not operationally feasible, not unless we were to devote every law enforcement FTE to it. It's more bombast.

Here's what we should do. Tax remittances back to these countries until they take measures to restrain the flow (including Remain in Mexico). No pathway to citizenship until you leave the country for years and return legally. Merit based immigration like the rest of the western world does. Mandatory e verify or face a crushing fine, half the fine going to the informant. Expand a legal guest worker program for the labor we need, on our terms, not those shipping us their criminals and terrorists.

No wall or deportation needed.

You're out of depth talking Orwell... read it before resuming this conversation please.

> Here's what we should do.

With all do respect I don't give a fuck about your ideas for immigration. They're petty ideas. What matters is the ideas of the neofascist political party you're about to vote for.

That party's platform is literally MASS DEPORTATIONS NOW. <<<---- 👀 LOOK AT IT. That's the part of reality you're denying that's right before your own eyes.

Say goodbye to your favorite stripper, say hello to concentration camps on our shores.

"Anyone who studies the history of ideas should notice how much more often people on the political left, more so than others, denigrate and demonize those who disagree with them — instead of answering their arguments."

- Thomas Sowell

Cope harder! ;)

What ideas am I denigrating and demonizing? I am literally quoting the GOP party platform.

Let’s also remember your first comment to me in this thread was to call me a “liberal autistic troll”, so reread your Sowell quote again and maybe try to have some damn self awareness

^ Actually I was referring to OP as liberal autistic troll, not you.

You got aggro about my "petty ideas."

You need a hug. Or a good wank.

Your “petty ideas” are pretty because you’re basically describing Biden-Harris policy with addition of a remittance tax which no country is going to pay. And Remain in Mexico only works with Mexico’s close cooperation, and it’s problematic because most immigrants entering at our southern border aren’t even Mexican.

And your ideas are quite irrelevant because the party you support wants to implement the largest deportation operation in American history. They want to build a wall. They want to shut down some of the largest border crossings in the world, with one of our biggest trading partners. It would be an economic nightmare and human rights catastrophe.

Say good bye to your CF and hello to concentration camps within our borders.

They are? Please link to this portfolio of ideas. There was one border security bill that would have impeded the flow and the Democrats killed it.

Border crossings literally jumped the month Biden took over in his eager to undo anything Trump did, and stayed high while Harris was supposed to "address the root causes." How'd that work out? Lol. Now Biden takes a few steps in that direction 3.5 years too late and the libs are proclaiming the problem solved.

I DGAF about the wall, camps would be impractical unless we were to triple our law enforcement and focus it just on that. My ideas that you called "petty" somehow aren't getting implemented by Biden/Harris.

Asylum is not a right to enter America specifically. Especially when you're coached by government contractors to apply for something you knowingly don't qualify for. Mexico can stop them at their southern border. We damn well don't have to accept them.

And we tell the world, you come in the right way, bring a skill, work hard and stay out of trouble, learn and accept our language and traditions, and we'll happily add you to our melting pot. Like both sides of my family did

By the way I don't do CFs. Variety.

> There was one border security bill that would have impeded the flow and the Democrats killed it.

You mean this Border Security bill that nearly every single GOP Senator voted filibustered? https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congres…

Or are you talking about a different bill and if so can you link?

> By the way I don't do CFs.

Well, say goodbye to all your new favorites too, because the stripper population of the US will be decimated if Trump is elected. I fear too for my ability to travel so easily to Tijuana, I don't imagine Mexico's government is going to continue to let Americans through once Trump succeeds in SEALING THE BORDER.

“And we tell the world, you come in the right way, bring a skill, work hard and stay out of trouble, learn and accept our language and traditions, and we'll happily add you to our melting pot. Like both sides of my family did ”

I agree for the most part, but, fortunately, nobody should be expected or obligated to accept “our traditions”. That’s usually code-word for something like beer, guns, football, thanksgiving, other random stuff. It would actually go against the constitution to demand or require people to accept our traditions… they need to accept our laws yes.. but accepting traditions is something else entirely. Constitution allows for freedom of speech, expression, religion, etc so you dont have to, for instance, celebrate thanksgiving or july 4 in order to be American. July 4 is honestly the worst… insane traffic.. insane heat.. just for 15 minutes of fireworks.

"You mean this Border Security bill that nearly every single GOP Senator voted filibustered?"

NBC, that explains a lot. Again, why should the GOP have gone along with a political stunt, when Biden could have just not undone Trump’s policies in the first place?

4 years of open border policies, and at the last minute they decide to try and patch a political liability.

Meanwhile Democrats scuttled this one when it wasn't politically convenient.
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59151

Democrats own this completely unforced error.

> Meanwhile Democrats scuttled this one when it wasn't politically convenient.

Are you a fucking idiot or being intentionally obtuse? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME BILL. The bill you linked, HR 2, passed in the house and was fillabustered in the Senate. It's the same fucking bill the NBC news link I posted refers to. See the full history of the bill here:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-cong…

Republicans have no one to blame but themselves (and Trump) for scuttling this immigration reform.

I'll look that up later.

Surely you didn't notice the literal spike in crossings the month Biden got elected? And finally when it threatens to derail the election, Biden employs some half measures in that direction?

Republicans are far more trusted on the border and it isn't even close. Dems gonna own this border, and everyone sees through the political scheme that was that bill. Pucker up!

More of what's going to get hung around Harris' neck.

Joe Klein is an established man of the left all don't give me that shit.

https://josephklein.substack.com/p/torch…

> I'll look that up later.

Or you could just admit that you were grossly misinformed, but whatever.

> Surely you didn't notice the literal spike in crossings the month Biden got elected?

Gosh, was anything happening at the time Biden took over that was causing a massive change to global migration patterns? Can you think of anything?

At least you acknowledge that Biden has done something about the border. (And I'll note, for the record, that I disapprove of Biden's policy - I think many businesses employing low-skilled workers are still suffering from a lack of labor. We need more immigrants, not less.)

> Republicans are far more trusted on the border and it isn't even close.

Planks one and two of the GOP party platform are:

1. SEAL THE BORDER, AND STOP THE MIGRANT INVASION
2. CARRY OUT THE LARGEST DEPORTATION OPERATION IN AMERICAN HISTORY

I expect as this campaign progresses, more Americans are going to realize the absolutely devastating economic and human rights consequences of GOP policy.

"Or you could just admit that you were grossly misinformed, but whatever."

Surely you didn't notice the number of Democrats who defected as well. Go figure, no hope political stunts don't make people want to follow along.

"Gosh, was anything happening at the time Biden took over that was causing a massive change to global migration patterns? Can you think of anything?"

lol of course a progressive thinks a snarkass comment is a win, so I'll do you one better. Did COVID magically vanish from the earth the month Biden got elected? Were there other changes, like say, Biden overturning Trump’s EOs on the matter and making a giant show of it?

"At least you acknowledge that Biden has done something about the border"

A half-assed political move when he noticed the issue was handing him his own ass in the polls. What stopped him from doing this 3 years ago? Lol you think he deserves CREDIT for this? It's like saying he "brought down inflation." The fire might be controlled (in a sense) but the house has burned down.

Stop being disingenuous, we all see through it.

" I think many businesses employing low-skilled workers are still suffering from a lack of labor."

Basic economics. Labor supply down, wages up. Do you favor depressing American wages? If you support an increased minimum wage or unionization, you are inconsistent.

Personally I'd love a stringently monitored guest worker program but Dems shipping illegals around the country says it isn't their goal.

"I expect as this campaign progresses, more Americans are going to realize the absolutely devastating economic and human rights consequences of GOP policy."

Hahaha on half your posts you say there are no undecided voters left and in half you say 3 more months of Orange Man Bad are going to cause a massive desertion from the GOP. You seem confused, which is it? You can't have both.

Your predictions are straight up leftist wishcasting or speculation. You seem to forget that EVEN DEMS DIDN'T WANT HARRIS IN 2020! But keep trying to talk yourselves into her as Obama with breasts...it amuses me.

Look at polls, betting odds, Trump’s standing vs where he was in the last cycle. Something to inform yourself over your severe Trump Derangement Syndrome.

> " I think many businesses employing low-skilled workers are still suffering from a lack of labor."

>> Basic economics. Labor supply down, wages up. Do you favor depressing American wages? If you support an increased minimum wage or unionization, you are inconsistent.

I'll agree that's basic economics, because your understanding of economics is fundamentally basic.

First off, immigration creates its own demand for goods and services. It creates jobs for people who build houses, transport and sell food, and provide other basic services.

Second, deporting 11 million immigrants, as the GOP plans, would probably indeed raise wages. It would also cause a massive increase in prices. This is known as "inflation" and it's bad.

The bottom line is immigration creates better jobs for native born Americans. People who might only be able to find a job serving or cleaning have the opportunity to supervise and manage low skilled immigrant labor.

And for the record, I do not support a minimum wage or more unionization, I'm staunch capitalist.

> > "I expect as this campaign progresses, more Americans are going to realize the absolutely devastating economic and human rights consequences of GOP policy."

> Hahaha on half your posts you say there are no undecided voters left and in half you say 3 more months of Orange Man Bad are going to cause a massive desertion from the GOP. You seem confused, which is it? You can't have both.

My point is that the GOP's neo-fascist policy on immigration is going to motivate democrats to vote. I don't see the consistency here.

Also, Orange Man IS FUCKING BAD. He's rapist. A friend of Epstein's. A business fraud. He once tear gassed peaceful protestors so he could hold up a bible. He tried to overthrow our government. He separated children from their parents and put them in cages.

And he's going to deport your favorite cubana stripper once elected.

You seem to forget that Trump has lost the GOP three elections in a row. He's never won a the popular vote in a nationwide race. Polls and betting odds have narrowed significantly over the past few days. Look at the trend on PredictIt: https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail… Still think things are headed in your direction? It's a tight race.

Deporting 11 million people will be too hard for a competent administration to handle, you think the guy who went bankrupt owning a casino is competent, LOL
I got a bridge for sale who’s interested

> Deporting 11 million people will be too hard for a competent administration to handle

Trump is incompetent, but the right-wing extremists who he'll appoint won't be. And he won't have traditionally small-c conservative appointees who ignore his neo-fascist demands, as Kirsten Nielsen at DHS did in his first term.

Don't believe me: read Project 2025. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/… One of the authors of that document was Ken Cucinelli, who headed up CIS in Trump's first term. The project calls for the abolition of DHS, and consolidation and massive funding for ICE, CIS and others to be consolidated into "“a stand-alone border and immigration agency". If Trump is elected, he'll build the infrastructure needed to deport those 11 million immigrants, including the concentration camps it will require.

Trump will also revoke the immigration status of hundreds of thousands of people who are in the country legally, under type T and U visas.

Your favorite Cubana stripper is here on one of those Visas, she'll be disappeared into the night if Trump is elected.

^ I don’t believe he’s capable of appointing competent people, he’s too much of a narcissist, if it isn’t all about him he looses his composure.

For me the worry is zealotry. Many of these screwballs genuinely have convinced themselves that what they're doing is somehow "the Right and Necessary thing to do" with moral zeal. Sometimes even without capability, zealotry can still get done what capability would usually be necessary for. And I think Trump is very capable of appointing zealous people. People who are self-appointed as "their own crusade" (so to speak).

“First off, immigration creates its own demand for goods and services. It creates jobs for people who build houses, transport and sell food, and provide other basic services.”

Yes, they are also straining social services in major cities, squatting in homes, and committing crimes that didn’t need to happen. What’s the right number of illegal immigrants? Should we just avert our eyes because more is better?

“Second, deporting 11 million immigrants, as the GOP plans, would probably indeed raise wages.”

ILLEGAL immigrants. And it’s almost as unfeasible as confiscating every gun in America. Won’t happen. It’s more Trump bombast.

“This is known as "inflation" and it's bad.”

Unless you’re the Biden administration trying to rationalize it, or writing a blank check for “green” anything to do it. Now you see the conundrum, do you want to pay American workers a good wage, or do you want cheap shit? You could get drummed out of the Democratic party for that.

I notice you don’t say anything about legal vs illegal immigration. I’m all for a guest worker program that allows vetted individuals to fill those needs. But our borders are literally open to Middle Eastern terrorists, Venezuelan criminals, Honduran gangsters, and sex-trafficked women and children. How is this OK?

“My point is that the GOP's neo-fascist policy on immigration is going to motivate democrats to vote. I don't see the consistency here.”

Yeah yeah yeah, everything’s fascist, neo-fascist, crypto-fascist, uber-fascist, isopentenyl-chloro-fluoro-fascist. The word means nothing coming from the left. Again, Democrats know. They turned out in 2020 when Trump was on everyone’s screen because he was the president. Now they’re four more years removed and a lot of people are seeing Trump as the “good old days.”

“Also, Orange Man IS FUCKING BAD. He's rapist. A friend of Epstein's. A business fraud. He once tear gassed peaceful protestors so he could hold up a bible. He tried to overthrow our government. He separated children from their parents and put them in cages.”

More nonsense propaganda. Only one with a whiff of truth is business fraud. Stop reading liberal rags, they’re obviously working you into a coronary.

“And he's going to deport your favorite cubana stripper once elected.”

Just because this is a strip club message board doesn’t mean you’re supposed to be a slave to your cock. Number one, I highly doubt this will happen. Number two, if deporting all the Cubana strippers made America safer, freer, and more prosperous, let it happen. (It won’t, but I’m curious as to why you think this is so persuasive.)

“You seem to forget that Trump has lost the GOP three elections in a row.”

2018 – Everyone with House/Senate/White House loses members in the next midterm. Obama got spanked even harder in his first midterm. GOP gained seats here.
2020 – Global pandemic affects everyone. Trump lost this one because he was actually on the ballot and his bitch fit about Georgia cost the GOP the Senate. But the GOP had 23 Senators up for re-election vs the Dems 12. This year, that number is reversed.
2022 – Trump “lost” this one because of one thing, Dobbs.

“He's never won a the popular vote in a nationwide race.”

Popular vote and $3 gets you a hot coffee around here.

“Polls and betting odds have narrowed significantly over the past few days. Look at the trend on PredictIt: [view link] Still think things are headed in your direction? It's a tight race.”

OH MY SWEET SUMMER CHILD…LOL!!!! This is the surest sign yet that you’re a Democrat trying to hype himself up…you think that you can extrapolate a nonexistent trend (see below) from less than a week of polling out 3+ months.

If you want to look at ALL the polls, rather than the one that suits your narrative, look at this. From when Biden withdrew to today, Trump’s lead has gone from +1.6 to +1.7. There is no “trend” here.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/p…

And then, YOU CHOOSE THE OUTLIER IN BETTING ODDS! ROFL!
BetOnline +15
Betfair +18
Bovada +21
Polymarket +18
PredictIt +4 (OUTLIER BY 11 POINTS!)
Smarkets +17
https://www.realclearpolling.com/betting…

Another Democrat trying to hype himself up during the honeymoon phase. Harris isn’t going to be the shiny new thing forever.

Yeah, it could be close, since the country is so evenly divided. You’re also running a candidate who didn’t get a single delegate in the primaries, owns the biggest failure and most unpopular issue of the Biden administration…whom the old coot explicitly chose because she’s a black woman, and whose supporters are holding that fact over your party’s heads to make sure she isn’t bumped aside.

If you’re going to continue this conversation, please find a semblance of objectivity. The polling/betting data here punches you in the balls.

@puddy I'm frustrated by the firehose of moving goalposts and disinformation in your post. This will be my last comment in the thread, and I want to focus on just a single part of your response, in which there is an abundantly clear record.

>>“Also, Orange Man IS FUCKING BAD. He's rapist. A friend of Epstein's. A business fraud. He once tear gassed peaceful protestors so he could hold up a bible. He tried to overthrow our government. He separated children from their parents and put them in cages.”

> More nonsense propaganda. Only one with a whiff of truth is business fraud. Stop reading liberal rags, they’re obviously working you into a coronary.

Here's the record:

> He's rapist.

AP News: Jury finds Trump liable for sexual abuse, awards accuser $5M https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-ca…

> A friend of Epstein's.

In a 2002 interview with New York Magazine https://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_…, he said "I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy, He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”

Here's a video of them partying together: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLcfpU2c…

There's too many photos of them together to count but take your pic: https://images.google.com/search?q=trump…

And most importantly, Donald Trump appointed Alexander Acosta, the DA who originally let Epstein off the hook, to his Labor Secretary. https://www.reuters.com/article/world/tr…

> A business fraud.

Multiple times over. CBS News: Trump fraud ruling adds to his string of legal losses in New York https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-fraud…

> He once tear gassed peaceful protestors so he could hold up a bible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Tru…

> He tried to overthrow our government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_…

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archiv…

> He separated children from their parents and put them in cages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_admi…

If you think you're going to persuade me that after all this shit, he's not a terrible human and horrible president, you're welcome to have the last word in this thread.

To tie this back to OP's point, believing the absurdity that Trump is innocent of his numerous crimes against humanity will lead to many more atrocities, like concentration camps for immigrants and the disappearance of your favorite Cubana in the club.

^^

“Friend of Epstein”

Better scratch that one. The “list” also includes 40 to 50 liberals who were also “friends”. Including Bill Clinton, Phil Donahue, Oprah Winfrey, Alec Baldwin, Chelsea Handler, and Katie Couric.

@Ron - Lots of shit taken out of context. The Epstein stuff is a particularly impressive stretch!

We don't need to speculate about what Trump "would do" when we have 4 years of what he actually has done. It's straight up Saul Alinsky advice to accuse your opponent of what you are doing and note where civil rights were actually rolled back.

Bless your heart on your unfounded and cherry picked pro-Harris data.