This is messed up. Two most surprising aspects is the number of club employees across three sister clubs that would have been in the know and that Amex allowed charges well above people’s credit card limit.
I’ve been to Skin a few times over the years but not the others. Not sure how broadly this news will be seen by mongers but can’t imagine that people will choose to patronize these clubs.
It's wild looking back at tuscl reviews of these 3 clubs now
"I think they may have dosed him." - a Bones review from 2022
"RIP-OFF, SCAM ARTISTS. AVOID AT ALL COSTS." - 2024 Skins review
"not only is the staff watching you in the back on camera but the bartenders and patrons could also watch you in the back. Pretty creepy." - Dream Palace review from a couple weeks ago
Another reason Scottsdale clubs suck. Phoenix visitors mistakenly think they will be better only because they are in Snotsdale. Head west men, down Thomas Rd to Sugar 44 or Bourbon St, or a few miles north to HiLiter. More fun to be had, without getting ripped off!
I’m not a fan of using plastic in any kind of entertainment especially in strip clubs, but my understanding of American Express is that these cards don’t have a limit or cap on the amount you can spend I know my card doesn’t impose a limit, so I’m a bit skeptical about this story.
Amex today isn't the Amex of 40years ago. They have different kinds of cards these days, some have limits and others don't. They used to be fairly exclusive and only issue to folks with higher income & credit scores but I don't think that's the case anymore. Sure, they aren't gonna give a no limit card to someone with a 400 credit score and no verifiable income, but they'll give them some kind of card. In any case, I seriously doubt Amex themselves was involved in any wrongdoing, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if someone on staff was familiar with Amex's procedures and was calling in to customer service to have the limit bumped or something. Perhaps they recognized which Amex Cards had the "soft limits" and specifically targeted those customers due to the ease in exceeding the limit.
What makes it hard to pass judgment in these cases is the fact that lots of customers make poor decisions all on their own. Maybe by drinking too much or willfully doing drugs. We've all seem them in the club. Regular Joe's who are the party animals of their straight laced crowd. They get into the club and don't realize they're in a different echelon now and wind up wasted. Then they refuse accountability & and blame the club. I have little to no sympathy for those people.
However, once the club becomes used to defending itself from those false accusations it becomes all too easy for them to fall down the slippery slope. They might start by turning a blind eye when those "independent contractors" engage in behaviors by encouraging the excess drinking and drugs and then eventually aiding & encouraging it or even directly participating and facilitating.
So its hard to know what's true here, the reality is there are probably some poor decision makers skirting accountability here as well as some club employees up to and including ownership who are at best taking advantage.
Beware of Dimes Cabaret which is close to these 3 clubs. When I attempted to get a $25 dance, I was told that I need to give them a credit card. I left and will not return.
Wow. "'In each one of these cases, an American Express card was used and in virtually every case, the credit limit was exceeded,' he said. Bobby’s American Express credit card limit was around $22,000, yet his charges totaled more than $180,000."
I just looked, and my AMEX credit limit is $22,600, so this seems to fit.
Dolfan, whose opinions I respect here, said "I seriously doubt Amex themselves was involved in any wrongdoing..." I dunno. It was only AMEX cards involved, and the number of victims and the astronomical amounts charged were so outrageous, I really suspect that there was someone at AMEX who was in on this. I have a hard time believing that any credit card company would routinely and blithely allow charges that so far exceeded any existing limits or -- if there were soft limits or no limits -- would even allow such high charges (like $180,000) to be made at a strip club. My Visa company called me once and asked me if I had really just charged $550 at Papa Johns. I had, in fact, done just that, as I had pizza delivered for several hundred people at an event (the cost of which I was being reimbursed). There was no fraud involved, but I appreciated getting the call and having my credit card company looking out for me.
On the other hand, maybe I'm just naive to think that charges of $180,000 at a strip club are not routine.
I 100% agree EastCoaster! Credit card companies absorb millions in fraud losses, and have the ability in real time to monitor and identify unusual expenditures, and take action to limit unauthorized charges. They also market their security features as part of building their reputation with customers and potential customers. It seems very fishy that they would allow charges of this magnitude to proceed, regardless of whether it came from a strip club or anywhere else.
I know a dancer that worked at one of these clubs and stopped because she couldn't stomach the tactics they asked her to use on drunk customers. She described these tactics to me before I read them in the story.
What I'm suggesting is that someone on the club staff knows that Amex limits are "soft" and is having the customers call in to customer service to explicitly authorize the charge and coaching them through the process while they still have their faculties.
I've personally experienced this, I used an Amex to make a large purchase for tables/bottle service at a club in Miami for some out of town guests wanting to party a couple years back. When telling me the costs, she could tell I don't do that shit every night. So, the host advised me that I should call Amex to advise them of the charge to avoid any issues. She had exact phrasing she recommended I use and offered to text me the number, she even had a little speech to try to put me at ease. All indicating high familiarity with the process.
I find that scenario much more plausible than the club having an "inside man" at Amex who is complicit or Amex themselves simply allowing these charges for their own benefit. If they had someone there, it would have to be a well placed very senior manager to make this sort of thing go away. Then if you think about that, they'd have to have motivation for that person. Either a significant percentage of the cash or some sort of blackmail. Both of those just seem much more far fetched than simply a couple of crooked strippers and a manager/boyfriend type having the perception that "Guys with Amex cards are rich and won't say anything for fear of embarrassment" and basic familiarity with how to talk to customer service to resolve issues is fairly common knowledge at merchants that routinely serve up large, high risk transactions that are often initially declined. It's not hard to think a someone will less than pure intentions could build upon that.
It's easier with Amex too, since it's a single card issuer with a single set of cards and procedures . With the Visa/Mastercard network you have to deal with the individual banks, for example Chase/Wells Fargo/Capital One/BoA/etc and each will have their own processes and cards appearances. Its much easier in the club to notice an Amex platinum and know there is a high or no limit and know what to say on the phone to ensure it'll be accepted than to look at the myriad of Visa/Mastercards in various colors and know which are high-limit and which are low, and then know which bank you have to call to pre auth a transaction and what the key words their phone reps are trained to identify as legit vs which are indicators of coercion or fraud.
Yeah, ANYONE stupid enough to use a credit card in a strip club deserves to get burned!! You have to be an idiot to hand your name, access to your financial means and full authorization to strangers behind the bar!
And what's common sense to us ARIZONIANS......ALL SCOTTSDALE STRIP CLUBS SUCK!! You dumb out of towners wanna waste your money at these scumbuckets? Go right ahead...
Autumn is a TUSCL dancer that previously danced at Skin Cabaret for a short time because she did not like how they were ripping off customers. She now dances in Florida. Skin would get your thumb print. When the customer would dispute the charge, Skin would send the credit card company a copy of the thumb print to prove that the charge was real.
They were not just drunk. They were drugged apparently in their drinks, and it seemed that after they passed out, their wallets and cell phones were stealing their credit cards to make the charges. Other reports go into police report details.
I also have looked up owners criminal/civil court records. There could be a movie made from it including attack on owner in his home, fight with the pawn shop guy, huge amounts of money loan sharked etc.
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I’ve been to Skin a few times over the years but not the others. Not sure how broadly this news will be seen by mongers but can’t imagine that people will choose to patronize these clubs.
"I think they may have dosed him." - a Bones review from 2022
"RIP-OFF, SCAM ARTISTS. AVOID AT ALL COSTS." - 2024 Skins review
"not only is the staff watching you in the back on camera but the bartenders and patrons could also watch you in the back. Pretty creepy." - Dream Palace review from a couple weeks ago
What makes it hard to pass judgment in these cases is the fact that lots of customers make poor decisions all on their own. Maybe by drinking too much or willfully doing drugs. We've all seem them in the club. Regular Joe's who are the party animals of their straight laced crowd. They get into the club and don't realize they're in a different echelon now and wind up wasted. Then they refuse accountability & and blame the club. I have little to no sympathy for those people.
However, once the club becomes used to defending itself from those false accusations it becomes all too easy for them to fall down the slippery slope. They might start by turning a blind eye when those "independent contractors" engage in behaviors by encouraging the excess drinking and drugs and then eventually aiding & encouraging it or even directly participating and facilitating.
So its hard to know what's true here, the reality is there are probably some poor decision makers skirting accountability here as well as some club employees up to and including ownership who are at best taking advantage.
What’s your take Shadowcat?
I just looked, and my AMEX credit limit is $22,600, so this seems to fit.
Dolfan, whose opinions I respect here, said "I seriously doubt Amex themselves was involved in any wrongdoing..." I dunno. It was only AMEX cards involved, and the number of victims and the astronomical amounts charged were so outrageous, I really suspect that there was someone at AMEX who was in on this. I have a hard time believing that any credit card company would routinely and blithely allow charges that so far exceeded any existing limits or -- if there were soft limits or no limits -- would even allow such high charges (like $180,000) to be made at a strip club. My Visa company called me once and asked me if I had really just charged $550 at Papa Johns. I had, in fact, done just that, as I had pizza delivered for several hundred people at an event (the cost of which I was being reimbursed). There was no fraud involved, but I appreciated getting the call and having my credit card company looking out for me.
On the other hand, maybe I'm just naive to think that charges of $180,000 at a strip club are not routine.
I've personally experienced this, I used an Amex to make a large purchase for tables/bottle service at a club in Miami for some out of town guests wanting to party a couple years back. When telling me the costs, she could tell I don't do that shit every night. So, the host advised me that I should call Amex to advise them of the charge to avoid any issues. She had exact phrasing she recommended I use and offered to text me the number, she even had a little speech to try to put me at ease. All indicating high familiarity with the process.
I find that scenario much more plausible than the club having an "inside man" at Amex who is complicit or Amex themselves simply allowing these charges for their own benefit. If they had someone there, it would have to be a well placed very senior manager to make this sort of thing go away. Then if you think about that, they'd have to have motivation for that person. Either a significant percentage of the cash or some sort of blackmail. Both of those just seem much more far fetched than simply a couple of crooked strippers and a manager/boyfriend type having the perception that "Guys with Amex cards are rich and won't say anything for fear of embarrassment" and basic familiarity with how to talk to customer service to resolve issues is fairly common knowledge at merchants that routinely serve up large, high risk transactions that are often initially declined. It's not hard to think a someone will less than pure intentions could build upon that.
It's easier with Amex too, since it's a single card issuer with a single set of cards and procedures . With the Visa/Mastercard network you have to deal with the individual banks, for example Chase/Wells Fargo/Capital One/BoA/etc and each will have their own processes and cards appearances. Its much easier in the club to notice an Amex platinum and know there is a high or no limit and know what to say on the phone to ensure it'll be accepted than to look at the myriad of Visa/Mastercards in various colors and know which are high-limit and which are low, and then know which bank you have to call to pre auth a transaction and what the key words their phone reps are trained to identify as legit vs which are indicators of coercion or fraud.
And what's common sense to us ARIZONIANS......ALL SCOTTSDALE STRIP CLUBS SUCK!! You dumb out of towners wanna waste your money at these scumbuckets? Go right ahead...
I also have looked up owners criminal/civil court records. There could be a movie made from it including attack on owner in his home, fight with the pawn shop guy, huge amounts of money loan sharked etc.