UAW Strike?

Ask anyone who is supportive of this if they want to spend 46% more for their next vehicle.

And....you're correct in your assessment that robotics and outsourcing will be even further escalated by this move.

There is similar outrage over the latest UPS negotiation, but those UPS drivers bust their butts and work much more than 40 hours/week to get to the $170k average (of which $23k is pension contributions).

As usual, unions tend to be short sighted in their salary demands. They don't give much (if any) thought to how this will affect their employer in even the medium term. Massive cost increases that make a company non-competitive either mean that company's business goes down the tubes, costing jobs, or the company makes massive changes to try to regain competitiveness, again costing the union jobs. It would take a massive capital outlay but they could build new factories in right to work states where they won't have to deal with the union.

The union asked for a 46% raise and a cut back to 32 hours as well. You can buy an American made car from a non-union shop.

They’re not asking for 46% they are asking for 46% over a time horizon of 5 years, they don’t expect to get the full amount, and the auto manufacturers will give them a substantial raise. The comments here show that it’s a stupid tactic to negotiate in the public eye.
It will be settled eventually and amicably

Ah unions, so many American workers would be screwed without union protections but on the other hand you see stuff like this and scratch your head.

I often think unions throw out these astronomical demands so when the negotiations start the other side brings them back down to earth and that’s exactly where the union wanted to be in the first place but they have to aim high, just like an auctioneer does at an auction to get the first bid.

would there be people willing to purchase cars that auto makers will hire migrants to manufacture? not quite the same as a a new car by a longshot but i did purchase a few years ago an electric guitar that was manufactured over at fender's shop in mexico. it plays better than most american made guitars.

Correct me if I’m wrong - blame google

American Airlines pilots: 46% increase over 4 years

UPS (some workers) 55% increase over 5 years

UAW asking for 46% over 5 years

I don’t begrudge UPS drivers - they do work hard. And who wants to fly with underpaid pilots…but c’mon….short term gains are gonna lead to long term pain for all

It’s a mutual suicide pact. The world is going EV ( literally ). Tesla has an insurmountable lead over the Big Three. And, cheap Chinese EVs are coming.

The UAW and Legacy Auto should be working together to find a path for survival.

Is anyone posting on this thread, that has a salary job, expecting to average a 10% wage increase per year for the next 5 years? Most probably won't. Even people that own their own businesses will be dealing with the higher costs of doing business caused by these crazy wage increases and will have a hard time increasing profits 10% per year.

I've been involved with, a member of 3 different unions in previous years.

At the end of the day none of them were worth a shit.
Union leaders are just as self serving as politicians, they stand on the worker's backs to prop up and serve themselves and their main focus is to hold on to their own power.

Where are the wannabe mods complaining this isn't in the politics forum?

I think the strikes are a good thing. Anything that hurts union members is a good thing. Unions have outlived their uaefulness and now exist only to perpetuate their own existence.

Employees should be considered individually on their individual merits, not rewarded for seniority.

The American auto industry is in a decline, and possibly total collapse, as a result of EVs. There are 100,000 companies that supply the Big 3 auto companies, most of them in Michigan, Ohio, and Ontario. Every one of these companies is at risk, along with the lives of their employees and families. The strike and/or large wage increases could accelerate this collapse.

Fuck the UAW if they actually go on strike. Threaten it and use it as a bargaining chip and have some dummy union president act mad and indignant, just don’t go on strike.

If they do, they shouldn’t be surprised when the automakers open plants in Mexico. They can assemble car parts just as well down there as UAW workers and they work their asses off.

If you antagonize your employer and pretend that you are in charge and calling the shots, then kiss your income goodbye. These dumbass unions make outrageous demands (a 32-hour workweek? 10+% annual wage increases?) and then become actually surpised and outraged when their jobs are exported to Mexico and China.

It's like the $15/ hr minimum wage idiots. Publix supermarkets, of all places, have installed self checkout lines. Race Trac gas station have self checkout in their stations. The kiosks and food apps are all about one thing: pushing out the flawed, ungrateful, human employee. The content/writing/journalism equivalent? AI. The manufacturing equivalent? Robots. All union jobs will be turned over to robots built in non-union factories. Once engineers figure out how to create self-coding AI and robots to engineer other robots, humanity may face an existential crisis.

Now, Unions will take away peoples' healthcare

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/l…

The UAW tactics this time seem a little odd to me. First off they are trying to negotiate with the Big 3 all at once for the same contract. That seems like it could raise some issues with federal regulators along the same lines as an anti-trust issue.

Secondly, it seems odd to choose one specific factory at each of the 3 companies to go on strike. Sure they chose plants that assemble very profitable mid-sized trucks, but why go with just a partial strike instead of a full on strike. It has me wondering if the UAW is lacking in either member support or funds for a full strike. Given the size of the UAW and the amount they take out of each paycheck from their members I assume money wouldn't be the issue unless there has been some mismanagement of the funds which is entirely possible.

Either way, in my mind the times of large unions has passed for most industries and I imagine it will be coming to an end soon for autoworkers as well. Between automation of assembly lines, offshore production and non-union competitors like Toyota and Tesla it is becoming harder for automakers to justify negotiating with unions.

The UAW has already shrunk from more than 1.5 million active members working in the late 70s to less than 400,000 active members working today. Nearly a quarter of those aren't autoworkers like the "academic workers" from the UAW that lead that big strike at the University of California last year.

Ditto for me and OSU; every union shop (company) I was a salaried employee in seemed extremely counter productive. The big 3 had to be bailed out once before; this go round could be the death knell. To an outside observer and to someone who worked for for FoMoCo for 8 years their demands seem outrageous. Biggest raise I got the last 10 years? 3%...

@whodey

Union contracts are site specific. They literally depend on the street address of the factory. That’s why there are only three plants shutting down. I don’t know, but am guessing, that they’ve timed the expiration of three union CBAs to the big 3 auto makers so that they can get similar comp and benefits no matter which company they work for.

Does 32 hour work week and 40% pay increases sound crazy? Yes. Also think about:

- union CBAs are usually 3-5 years long. They have built in raises, but if they were under a 3 year deal, those raises were negotiated before the inflation surge so they’ve been getting 2% raises the last few years. They want COLA. Not agreeing or disagreeing but it is context.

- the chip shortage and stimulus caused auto prices to go through the roof. No manufacturer discounts or subsidized financing deals. The auto manufacturers made record profits the last couple years. Those rebates and subsidized low financing rates were just starting to come back. The auto manufacturers realized that they might be better off with lower production, meaning the strike might actually help them and this could last awhile.

Sorry for extra post. Also, 32 hr work week and 40% are negotiating positions. They’ll definitely agree to something less.

Bottom line - union’s gonna go for as much as the can get.

Company, not so much. Only motivation for an employer to raise wages is to stay competitive in the labor mark to continue to be able to recruit and retain workers. I don’t think thats a factor.

Company also needs to compete against the competition. Keeping labor cost low or at least reasonable is part of that. The union doesn’t care about that until the plant shuts down and they company moves off shore. Then they say “What happened?”

I think the union needs to get company stock instead of a raise, a cola plus stock options would give the workers a more realistic sustainable outcome, that would ensure that all parties have a vested interest in the continued, and long term success of the business, and have the opportunity to profit or lose based on the merits.

Hank wrote, "those raises were negotiated before the inflation surge so they’ve been getting 2% raises the last few years."

That's true; however, how many people do you know who have been receiving > 2-3% increases, even with inflation? Sure, there are some, but there are also companies giving 0%, due to economic conditions.

I have typically traded in vehicles every 2-3 years, but have now chosen to run my vehicles until the wheels fall off, due to being annoyed about what a newer model with fewer features costs vs my current vehicles.

I've directly witnessed automotive jobs (from various Tiers within supply chain) be moved outside of the US.

Automotive OEMe are among the most spiteful and ruthless of businesses. They don't take kindly to being pushed around. They will find a way to make the Union suffer in one way or another.

The US auto industry employs over 4 million workers. If they are suddenly unemployed that would double the number of people out of work. Which, in turn, would cause a deep recession.

So, there’s that to consider.

^ For the UNION to consider, or the automakers?

More of the sky is falling from our resident chicken little
There’s only 145,000 UAW members, explain why there’d be 4 million out of work SMH

I said auto workers, idiot. Not UAW members.

UAW shuts down plants. All 100,000 auto suppliers shut down.

I’m pretty sure everyone else understood..

And I asked how 17000 striking workers were going to shut down an entire industry, especially since there are probably more vehicles manufactured in non union factories in North America, geezaloo what do you do all day try and think of ways the world is going to come to an end, still
SMH

BTW Three plants being shut is going to shut down 100K auto parts suppliers that’s a looney tunes theory

Biden “helping” now so you know thing will get worse.
Biden, of course, pandering to union, saying publicly that companies “should share record profits with record contracts”. That’s not helping.

^Biden’s not smart, but he should be smart enough to know that kind of rhetoric will hurt, not help.
The UAW will dig in deeper with impression that the President, and therefore the full might of the US government, is on their side and there’s no need to compromise.

Biden smart enough (though intellectually dishonest and very lazy) to know that but pandering to labor, and getting their vote, is more important to him than the American economy and helping the parties reach a fair responsible agreement.

^ Biden doesn’t need to be smart, problem here is going to be one of perception, these CEOs all earn multiples of 3-400 times what their median workers earn, and none of these are business founders, they’re not even capitalists themselves they’re just another group of greedy subsidy sucking pigs, feeding at the public trough.

^Wrong. The difference between a great vs average vs poor CEO is literally worth billions to some big corporations. You may not like but that’s why they get paid what they do. It’s the free market.

^ What about Tom Cruise making 10000 times what some extra in the movie made?
No fair.

The government ought to step in and make the studio take money from Tom Cuise and give to the extras. They’re the reason I go to the movies.

^ you totally missed my point, my point was perception is reality, I’m not interested in arguing the merits of the pay disparities although there is some validity to that argument, my point was simply that the strike will fail or succeed on issues that are more or less irrelevant to the points being discussed.

^My point is the US government/pandering Joe should not take sides for votes.

^ they already have picked their side, the biggest subsidies are going to the EV manufacturers, this is only a distraction.

^True, but Biden shouldn’t double-down on economic meddling.

Don’t get me started on the EV initiative, paid for with taxpayer money to jam EVs, that are basically for rich people who want a spare car/grocery grabber, down everyone’s throat.

Last point to be made I have this question do you remember the original auto bailout, they all flew to Washington DC in private jets, to ask for money. This is getting old, but they were major beneficiaries of the PPP program, let these greedy motherfuckers pay back the taxpayers before they pay themselves hundreds of millions of dollars, this is getting old and people on both sides of the aisle are getting sick and tired of this bullshit.

Unfortunately I was not able to take advantage of the $7,500 EV tax credit. The credit is only available for EV’s costing less than $45K, and my Tesla S is more than 2X this. I don’t know of too many sub $45K EV’s that would qualify.

Of course Biden and Dems are going to weigh in on the strike, this is exactly the type of issue that is at the core of the Democratic Party - ensuring the wealth created by capitalism is more evenly shared and less concentrated at the top.

Which is precisely the opposite of the core Republican position of cutting taxes, under the guise of "letting you keep more of your hard earned money" while providing massive windfalls to the top 0.1%.

Secret IRS Files Reveal How Much the Ultrawealthy Gained by Shaping Trump’s “Big, Beautiful Tax Cut”
https://www.propublica.org/article/secre…

How about this: We accept the fact that Unionized American auto workers are the least productive auto workers in the world. They don't deserve what they earn now, let alone a raise. The higher ups don't even deserve $15.00 and hour as they produce and contribute nothing. The solution is to just stop buying products made by the big 3. Get rid of all of them. The rich are out for themselves and fuck the rest of us. Union workers are out for themselves and fuck the rest of us. Union workers are worse simply because they pretend to want to help the working man and the unions have money for strikes, while the working men getting laid off because of the strike have nothing. Google highest percentage of union workforce. Google costliest areas to live. See....... Both sides suck so let their jobs join electronics and steel overseas where the rest of union jobs have gone.

^ I know you’ve said you drive a Subaru, do you know the Subaru plants are 92,5% union members
Jes sayin.

^ Depending on the source the number is zero to 80%. My research indicates its the 80% figure, but I could be wrong as none of the sources seem more reliable than others .My car was purchased 9 years ago from an Indiana plant when there were no Unionized workers. My next car will most likely be either a shitbox for the winter if I rebuild this one or a car made by American workers who are not unionized. I don't object that people belong to or support unions. I object to the pretense that unionized workers give a flying fuck about anyone other than themselves and that they care about working people. They're frauds and as such I try not to support them in way at all. That mindset will never change; just ask my teamster first cousin; nurse's union wife or teachers union Mother.

^ I ran my business in several states and the southern states with their right to work rules were always where my least desirable workers were, love unions or hate them, they were usually my most productive employees we had, with the least problems, and lowest employee turnover, I’m not saying that union workers were perfect but it was easiest to find qualified workers in the shops that were unionized and we had way better quality control with the union guys. They also had a better work ethic and absenteeism was generally 50% lower where union workers were involved.

In my 41 years in business I was taught and learned on my own that any paralegal who was a unionized employee would not last a month in private practice, despite the pay and benefits. No one lasted 2 weeks because the work was too hard. I got to watch my unionized wife's big work meeting on zoom where the powers that be set the standard for the number of claims/cases cleared at 25 a day, upsetting beyond belief all the union people, except my wife who freaked out because she was doing 62 a day already. She slowed down dramatically since she gets the same shitty raise every year that the do nothings get. Now she does 50, but she gets OT. Such a stupid system.
My first experience with unions was dealing with teamsters when I was moving furniture with owner operators. The union fucks went on strike and began going after non-unionized owner-operators who would not join the strike for the union's benefit. Union members were dropping rocks off overpasses and shooting at trucks. No one dropped a rock on us, but we did have 7 bullet holes in the trailer when we got back.
Never hire them, try to avoid union shops when I buy, but about 80% of the people i play poker with are union members. They all have nothing good to say about lawyers and I have nothing good to say about them. We do enjoy cards together, with Poker currently taking up 4 nights per week minimum. Guess what I replaced strip clubs with?

Poker

Yes. poker. Poker league starts again on Thursday; monthly games started last weekend after summer break and Saturday night poker has a newbie who's girlfriend has money, sucks at poker and plays. The fact she's blond, 22 and in a midriff shirt makes it impossible to look at your cards, makes it all the better. Off to the casino for .... craps lol.

Pandering Joe makes me puke. Now he says he’s going to join the union on the picket line. His meddling emboldens the union to refuse any compromise, which is how deals get done.

He’ll probably want the taxpayers to make up the wages they lost when they were out on strike.

He’s really a historically terrible President who does stupid, unprecedented things.

It has been reported that autoworker wages dropped by more than 20% over the past two decades when adjusted for inflation. Compensation grew by just 18.1% from 1978 to 2021. This is frankly jaw-dropping. Nowhere near the fairly consistent 3% annual pay raise I've had for the past two decades (80% raise over two decades).

Meanwhile, profits at the Big 3 increased 92% from 2013 to 2022, totaling $250 billion, and the companies paid out nearly $66 Billion in shareholder dividend payments and stock buybacks.

I hope they clean house with the CEOs and boards who are completely shafting their workers.

^20 years at 3% = 60%, not 80%.

The consumer price increase has averaged about 3.9% over the last 20 years = 78%.

Check your math

I probably would have averaged about 3% a year the last 20 years if I did the same job through those years too.

Nope, it's compounded so 80%.

The demise of the Detroit auto industry began around 1978. No coincidence. My dad was a union worker so I grew up in that world. Management is also to be blame - but the UAW played a big part too. Union members grew fat and lazy. Quality on the line reached rock bottom while Toyota was kicking their ass. But workers had job protection so no fear.

Instead of trying to work with management the union wanted an adversarial relationship and it continues today.

Bump TTT because the UAW reached a deal with the last of the Big 3 today. Pretty funny to look back at all the world is ending comments. No 32 hour work week or 45% raise, no Biden tipping the scales. Just capitalism negotiating a compromise deal to which both sides agreed. Consumers have free choice from which company to buy cars. Yawn.

Auto sales will join the other union success stories in steel, textiles, and electronics and foreign countries will once again fill the void with a reasonably priced, non-union product.