Sex Industry Slaves
MisterGuy
Rhode Island
I broached this topic in another RI AMP thread, but I thought I would post it here to get some more opinions. I've heard over the years that many AMP girls are victims of the sex slave industry. There have been busts all over the Northeast in recent years at various AMPs...mostly Korean ones I think though. You tend to run into girls at AMPs that speak little to no broken English or speak not at all (they tend to point to things instead to communicate).
Recently, I've seen some news stories about girls in strip clubs or "cantinas" (where guys pay an inordinate amount of money on a girl's drink so she can sit and his table and he can roam his hands whereever he wants to) being victims of the slave trade right here in USA. We all know that this kind of thing happens in a lot of other countries too.
Have you ever run into some strip clubs where you thought the girls working there weren't there of their own accord (they were being physically or mentally forced to be there)? I've run into more than a few girls (both that spoke good English or not) from Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. and always wondered how they made it from that far away place to working in some dive strip club in the States or Canada.
Recently, I've seen some news stories about girls in strip clubs or "cantinas" (where guys pay an inordinate amount of money on a girl's drink so she can sit and his table and he can roam his hands whereever he wants to) being victims of the slave trade right here in USA. We all know that this kind of thing happens in a lot of other countries too.
Have you ever run into some strip clubs where you thought the girls working there weren't there of their own accord (they were being physically or mentally forced to be there)? I've run into more than a few girls (both that spoke good English or not) from Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. and always wondered how they made it from that far away place to working in some dive strip club in the States or Canada.
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Same with the rape issue where they claimed "1 in 4 college women" will be raped while at college. THIS blantantly false stat is still being repeated, without an ounce of evidence, as the original story came from (Gloria Steinem's) MS MAGAZINE which got if from the earlier KOSS STUDY - whose own subjects claimed the "researchers" made non-rapes into rapes, by (among other things) saying 1. did you drink that night 2. did you have sex? If the coed answered 2 times in a row yes - they were told they were RAPED, even though the "victims" said they were not. However they got the data they wanted and MS Magazine distorted it further to produce the absurd numbers they now still put out. If 1 in 4 college women were actually being raped, few parents would ever send their daughters away to school, the number is a joke.
Same thing with these issues you refer to
On the AMP issue, and I was not surprised when I researched the issue and noticed (as it turns out) it ended up probably about 95% hype and and half-truths and other bullshi.t that the typical AMP girls are some kind of sex slaves. There is in fact little or no evidence to suggest this is going on any systemic basis in the United States. You have print and broadcast media who have an agenda, much of it femininst based, constantly pushing for a certain result, with their stories based upon the usual rant of "men are pricks and women are exploited worldwide" standard bull.shit. Of course when groups like Taliban or other Islamic groups really oppressing women, you don't get that kind of rabid coverage as often, because it doesn't fit the political agenda of the writers and editors
On the strip issue, you will usually see the "Russian Mafia" angle integrated into many stories, but is the same crowd that has NEVER produced any unbiased coverage of the strip business, instead nearly always seeing the issue as invariably "drug addicted and abused women being exploited.
This is the way the club was ran: First off, it was a nude club, in that they had one stage and the dancers would dancer their first song topless and their second song nude. Some dancers were nude underneath a skirt or lingerie teddy on their first song. When they weren't dancing on stage, they would take a seat at hard backed chairs against a wall, near the entrance to the club. If a customer wanted to buy LDs ($10) from a dancer, they had to go to the (non-alcoholic) beverage booth and buy dance tickets (stubs). The BOSS would write the dancer's name on the back of the stub. Another BOSS, carrying a clipboard, would call out the dancer's name and announce that they were UP for so many LDs. That dancer would come up to the BOSS and find out who purchased the dance stubs. The dancer & customer would wander back to the 3 sided cubicles, which contained one hard backed chair. Extras could be gotten from most dancers for tips.
Now, the sad part about this whole set up is that the dancer had to pay her for $10 LD to the club, and $5 of every subsequent LD to the club, as their payout. This is a total rip off for the dancers, as the club is well known in the area, and the dancers work their asses off for $5! This is one reason that most dancers give greater mileage for tips, as they don't have to share their tips with the club.
Go look up this club, Palace In The Pines, Youngstown, Ohio, and read some of the reviews.
It's rare, but I've seen the oocasional strip club where the dancers don't necessarily get to pick out who they have to dance for. There's actually one or two clubs in VT where this happens routinely from what I've seen. I don't think that necessarily means that girls are being exploited illegally though. The "cantinas" that I've heard about recently were mostly based in TX and the Soiuthwest U.S. I think.
I'm not so sure that the sex slave stats in the AMP industry are completely over-hyped myself. I'm not saying that they're all sex slaves, but I've seen plenty of stories where girls were sent home to their country of origin because they were at least here illegally. I also agree that just because a girl doesn't speak English means that she just got here to the States. Heck, I have relatives that speak English with an accent. Who knows...
However, if a dancer told you in a VIP dance that she was being forced to work at a club, I think you would have a moral obligation to report it.
There was just a case here, in Detroit, a few years ago that involved eastern european college girls being forced to work at a few area clubs. A patron reported the girls to the police and the FBI arrested the smugglers and the girls were saved.
The media MADE a big deal out it, and massively distorted reality,
and as for the "fine line" - yeah just like of alot of bullsh.t. Brown Univ got a student run out of town for a girl that solicited HIM for sex, apparently he should have had given her a breathalyzer test first.
Lets also add to media generated hysteria the kindergarten abuse cases that were major witch hunts about 15 to 20 years back, and nearly every single case in the country eventually collapsed, with the one exception being The Fells Acres Day Care Center in Malden, Mass - which despite the insanity of it all (clowns attacking kids in secret rooms etc), an entire owner/operator family group supposedly all of sudden becoming pervs, and complete lack of credible evidence, and they basically kept the principals locked up until they died or completed their prison terms, and there was one who could have gotten out 10 years earlier had he "confessed." Note in that case not only did the kids accuse 10 to 20 other parties that were not tried, they also accused the counselors - right the same ones that were shaping testimony by sticking pins into anatomically correct dolls. Any objective lawyer (including myself) familiar with that case knows full well the incredible legal bullsh.t perpretrated on those defendants, including the side-deal massive tort (multi million) settlement which is rarely ever mentioned the the liberal. Of course the kids themselves believed what they testified to, that wasn't the issue, the issue was whether it was perception or reality, but once again the media basically sidestepped any objective analysis.
The "slave trade" stories generally seem to be fallowing a similar pattern. The fact that they rotate girls among cities doesn't prove they are "slaves" - as the word is normally used.
Caused some issues, I'm sure. But who doesn't have baggage?
Phony studies aren't limited to the sex arena, they're common throughout the political spectrum. Don't mean to go off topic but global warming and second-hand smoke are two obvious examples where politics poses as science. Manufacturing or distorting data to support one's point of view is a common political preactice. When someone quotes a "study" look to see who did the study, and if they have a vested interest in the outcome ignore it. You wouldn't believe a study done by the oil industry or the tobacco industry, so why believe a study done by some other group that has a financial or other vested interest in the outcome? Just because the media loves these "studies" doesn't mean we have to be that stupid.
like pointing to your DICK
Not to get too off-topic, but I dunno that comparing college date rape to accounts by children (who are minors and really can't be totally trusted since a lot of them don't know the difference between right and wrong) is the same kind of thing. On the campus I was going to, there was a an incident where a car with two guys in it tried to rundown a bunch of women that were trying to participate in a peaceful "Take Back the Night" march. I saw it with my own two eyes and couldn't believe it...those guys must have hated women trying to stand up for themselves something fierce. I don't think any of this has anything to do with sex slavery though. Global warming and second-hand smoke...geeze...I'm against one and not the other...now guess which one is which... ;)
The original issue which brought up the issue of alleged nationwide sytemic abuses occuring related to AMPs and strip club "slaves" although now conventional wisdom due in part to agenda driven left wing managed major print and broadcast media sources - is simply not supported to any signficant extent by the underlying facts and evidence.
The date rape issue, kindergarten abuse cases, and anorexia "crisis" - all reflect a certain lockstep politically correct way of looking at thw world, high on emotion but generally short on substance.
By the way, the "right or wrong" issue was not an issue in the kindergarden witch hunt cases - the children were in nearly all of the cases initially interrogated by various conselors and psychologists in a manner that was highly suggestive and inherently unreliable and any valid memories thereaf permanently tainted - something subsequent research was directed specifically at and concluded as such, and that's why the cases fell like dominoes. The children neither lied nor did anything wrong, they told what they came to believe.
OK, now I know your opinion about my original question...thanx. I would prefer if you left the rest of your right-wind garbage at the door, but this is a free country and I am proud of that...I really am. To each his own...
BTW, I know all about those kindergarden/pre-school cases and how they were initially investigated so badly. I'm current reading those Palace in the Pines reviews and will post more about that later.
There are a lot of self righteous people who won't buy Tuna because it kills dolphins and sea turtles, but they don't mind buying pot from a guy who bought it from a gang who will kill people, by gutting them while still alive, over a few hundred dollars, but drugs are supposed to be a victimless crime, as is prostitution.
I don't buy it, not for a second, and I won't be a part of it. Call me an uptight moralist, rail about how I am imposing my morality on you, decry my unenlightened views. I don't care, I don't support pimps and killers. That's my choice and I can live with it. Live with your choices, but don't use your denial to denegrate me and my choices.
I don't think I've ever been to a club where neither the dancers nor you could proposition for a dance, but I have heard of one place in Quebec (the infamous Grand Prix...R.I.P.) where they would never come up to you but you could go up to them. That was mostly to try and get around any potential solicitation charges back in the day. Not sure that I see anything sinister in their practices at the "Palace", but I've never been there before...it just sounds more than a tad impersonal IMO...prolly just a great way for the house to make sure that they get their cut.
I said the stories being reported by the media focused on the issue in the United States in recent years in regards to AMP sex slaves and the Russian Mafia purported slavery of dancers and the attempt to put a systemic spin on the issue, suggesting its on a massive scale - is simply not supported by any credible evidence, and this fits a previous pattern engaged by the same agenda driven media to spin an entire series of stories painting men as oppressors and women as dupes
However it makes great headlines and gets rating up, so why not spin it that way
Its mostly Oprah-esque and Geraldo style hype on these issues. Any facts that get in they way tend to ignore
The reality is we have had for years hysterical reporting on the sexual slavery issue w/o any objective analysis (e.g NY Times Magazine, San Francisco Chronicle series) where the pattern has been to inflate via wild extrapolations basically a small number of proven sex-slave cases into a purported nationwide criminal subindustry.
Ok, you've HEARD for years that many AMP girls are victims of the "sex slave" industry and you refer to these "busts" all over the Northeast in recent years. Show me one case in the United States where an AMP girl was determined to be a "sex slave"
There have been numerous busts in VT over the last ~5 years closing some AMPs down and leaving some intact. The ones that were closed down permanently had employees that got federal charges made against them of human trafficing, immigration violations, and prostitution. I'm not their lawyers so you'll forgive me that I don't know how the cases ended up, and I do know you're still innocent until proven guilty in the USA.
I was merely originally simply asking if anyone of my fellow TUSCL's have ever been to a strip club where the girls looked like they weren't there of their own accord. So far, I think the answer is no...
Now, if you'd like to turn this simple question into whether or not men have ever oppressed women or whether or not women have even been duped by anyone...have at it man...
Your initial premise for your question (re: euro girl forced workers) is based upon oft-repeated/media spun bullsh.t discussed frequently in politically correct Oprah-world and Geraldo-ville, and the subject in recent years of major legislation in Congress, so the POLS have had a field day hyping this issue - the so-called "sex slavery" issue in the United States, which turns out to be a very small number of cases spun into a Mt Everest.
Lots of noise, little substance, that is the clear pattern that has emerged.
My answer: personally I have not met any euro girls that appeared to be sex slaves or forced workers or something similar. People and goods move about freely in this post-communism world now, and women, particuarly those used to lack of opportunity, will be drawn to a high pay/low work business. Brazilian girls are flowing into the USA all the time and somehow manage in high numbers to get involved in stripping just as much as Russians and other euro-girls, yet I've not seen many claims about Brazilian "sex slaves" I too have heard of the Russian/euro girl issue in this regards as supposedly occuring in Canada, but I have yet to see (even there) the credible evidence of this actually being a issue of any significance, other than the usual media/politician created firestorm.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22083762/
Lots of noise, little substance.
The pattern is following the same scenario of 4 to 5 other politician/media/feminist created frenzies in the last decade or two including 1. the nationwide day care child abuse cases 2. anorexia crisis. 3 the college date rape crisis 4. the trumped up and entirely phony missing children stats
Have fun voting for your favorite GOP candidate this year Dave...
But the thing that stood out to me in this story, was the fact that this girl was regularly arrested, and yet authorities did nothing to aid her. For the first five or six run-ins with the law, she never spoke with anyone who even communicated with her in a language she understood. Eventually, she learned "I want a translator" in English, and got some community service person who just helped her pay her prostitution fines and explain why she was going to jail. When she got bailed out or released from her sentences, the cops just turned her right back over to her captors, and in no occasion did she have a chance to tell American authorities, "Hey, I'm here against my will. Help me get home! I don't WANT to be a prostitute!" The cops and judges just said, "You idiot, stop doing this evil thing, you're a criminal" rather than "You victim, we'll help you get out of having to do this unfortunate thing." I was quite surprised at how badly a female judge was reported to have treated her, for instance, basically assuming she was free to choose not to prostitute, and refusing to hear her case until after the pimps and captors (her patrons who allowed her to be in the USA) were there watching, and refused to offer a translator. What an idiot judge!
But then on the other hand of the story -- the girls that I see at an AMP are always cheery, and my understanding about some of these places is, that it's an extremely high income for a child of farmers. They go into it with an open choice, many of them. Especially internet girls, the call-girls who define the new wave of prostitution, it's all about taking initiative to set up their own web sites. If they're going out of their way to advertise themselves as independents, or if they're returning by will to the high-income world that they prefer, over seeking the longer, slower profit of a more traditional workplace, then haven't they "made their own bed"? Made their own choices, as it were, and not exploited at all.
I'm of two minds. I found the initial Chronicle story a good read, but it started to make me think, "Hey, they're making this shit up." There were no real names ("hidden to protect ...") and the girls were all "perfect children" and the authorities "complete idiots." I need proof.
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"The trafficking industry hides behind a facade of normality. By establishing employment agencies for immigrants, traffickers ensnare victims, usually women hoping to escape poverty in their own country or to send money home for their families. Often, these women immigrate to the U.S. after being promised a job through such fraudulent agencies. Typically, once they arrive they are stripped of their legal papers and passports, beaten, and locked in a room. Understandably confused, a captive woman may examine her surroundings to find a crude mattress on the floor and vermin for companions. Within a few hours, though, her first customers will arrive. Initially, the men, taking advantage of her confused state, may rape the victim. Armed men guard all the brothel doors, so escaping is out of the question. Language barriers usually prevent a victim from seeking aid, and, as brothels exist in the secrecy of the cities, most captured women are lost forever to the shadows." http://www.associatedcontent.com/article…
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Yes, there are some cases, some with connections to Mexican sources - but again its an entire industry (just like many other alleged "crisis" in the past) created out of primarily isolated cases and statistics often created via wild extrapolations of other data, or never determinable claims such as the "lost in the shadows forever" claim above and other claims made by parties and groups having a vested interest in ginning up the hysteria
I was wondering just that after being to some AMPs last year. I don't know that you'd be able to tell off the bat (maybe without asking, but I doubt they'd be able to even answer) if they were there against their will.
It seems like people here either haven't seen it or they might not care either way.
100,000 AMP "sex slaves" in the United States is acceptable, preferably young and nubile and very sexy, but not one "sex slave" more. Questioned asked and question answered.
Meanwhile getting back to reality, you can live your life imprisoned by endless left wing/feminist/major media inspired bullshit designed to create mass hysteria in regards to certain so-called "crisis" issues which nearly always amount to relatively isolated problems being made into giant mountains, however the burden is on you to show us even ONE single case of proven AMP "sex slavery" in the United States.
But, if the number of sexual slaves in the USA amounts to only 1% of the population of AMP providers (to take an example), and the remaining 99% are free to come and go as they please, and in fact CHOOSE to be AMP sexual-service providers because it is a much more lucrative job (in terms of total income; but especially in terms of time-for-money) than most others they could take ... well, if THAT'S the case, then we don't have an epidemic on our hands. The situation is more like the anorexia hysteria of the later 1980s. Yes, a few young girls are having miserable existences and yes they deserve our sympathy and perhaps certain expert intervention, but if it's only 1% of the population then we need not initiate a media fire-storm over it, and somehow modify all humans' perceptions of the situation such that we start to believe falsehoods about it.
If the fact is that it's only 1%, then the appropriate response is quite different, from the situation in which it's 99%. In fact, if it's only 1%, I'd say there's hardly an appropriate response at all, given that the 1% can hardly be representative of anything, or addressed in any manner that also addresses the industry as a whole. More than 1% of politicians are corrupt: lock them all up? More than 1% of NASCAR drivers have wrecks: ban the sport? No, the corruption and the wrecks aren't truly indicative of politics and NASCAR. Likewise with sex providers. If only 1% of them are unwilling sex slaves, then it's not appropriate to denigrate the industry as a willing harbor of sexual slavery. It's not (if the 1% is true). It might have other detriments, but harboring sexual slavery (if the 1% is true) is not one of them.
I'd like to know the percentage, or some fair guesses from non-biased sources. Really, I'd like to know how to seek out and patronize WILLING sexual services providers, such that the arrangement is mutually agreeable and such that my own market actions lead to a reduction in any slavery that might have been going on tangentially around me. Knowledge of such facts as, the actual percentages, will have significant bearing on my likely behavior in the future, and on my interpretation of the industry and of industry-directed legislation and regulation that comes up for consideration in the future. I need to know the REAL situation before I can assess it or react to it. I'm tired of hearing fiction from the femi-nazis and being expected to take it as "true to life" crime drama. It's FICTION.