I saw a post about Victoria’s Secret having a model with Down syndrome in lingerie, and I thought it was great they would include her. But then I started thinking, will this sexualize a young woman who might not understand the attention she receives?
I’d like to hear your thoughts and discuss this topic.
What's next, Lia Thomas?
Very interesting thread cashman! I am going to try to be careful of my word choice here due to my track record of causing long oppositional responses (especially from one individual) when it comes to subjects like this on this site.
Sexuality definitely doesn’t go away with certain individuals. I have one brother who will blatantly get naked and masturbate and leave the bedroom door open. Then I yell at him to shut the door. I have another brother who is gay, and has behaved blatantly in ways multiple times to indicate that he likes men. (Especially males who have been a caretaker/counselor/or teacher in the past) Both brothers require lifelong assistance and will never have the ability to take care of themselves.
There are definitely problems caused when they may have less of an ability to understand consent, or give consent. At this time, I do not have an answer of what boundaries are most appropriate for most.
I am not completely aware of Down syndrome, and I did some quick googling. It seems like a small percentage end up being able to live independently, be employed, and even complete post-secondary education? Seems like there may be a wider spectrum and when it comes to this individual, it may very well be one would have to evaluate her on a one-by-one basis to know whether she truly consented or not to being a public figure.
Interesting and it does make me a bit uncomfortable (maybe thats the point).
NiceSpice have you ever seen special needs males come into a stripclub. I am not referring to the mentally ill like SJG or Icey but actual learning disabled types. How were those handled?
Depends. Down syndrome intellectual disability can be mild or severe. I've known some that can hold jobs and relationships, and others who are non-verbal adults.
I'm leaning towards this being yet another example of the left exploiting someone to push boundaries and look enlightened. In all probability, she has a child-like mind and might not understand the full implications. There are creeps out there with fetishes for special needs women.
Are they going to put a 14-year-old model in there next?
And @shadowcat, I think some of those mags are putting in trans "models." But they're becoming increasingly irrelevant.
Disabled people have needs and desires. I think they understand what being horny is. But may not comprehend the social and cultural constructs built around being horny.
I've seen guys on wheelchairs and other disabilities in clubs. Girls feel good about themselves like it's an act if charity. Others see them as easy money and good regulars.
One older hooker had a disabled guy come to Vegas once a year to fuck. A lot of them have relatives or friends puck up hookers for them
Rotflmfao
Lots of topics with this.
When we talk about he problem of shoplifting, nobody says, hey stores, keep your shit behind the counter, cause shoppers will be shoppers. But the boys will be boys thing is implicit here. Females (or their guardians if they need one) are not responsible to control the temptations of others. Males (or their guardians if they need one) should make sure they don't follow impulses when doing so would disrespect others.
There always have to be strong safeguards whenever the gubment takes away somebody's full adult rights. I'm not sure everyone with Down's Syndrome can't responsibly exercise their full adult rights.
Few if any humans dislike being sexually attractive. What they dislike is others feeling entitled to stereotype, sexually assault, or otherwise disrespect them.
People want to be models for multiple reasons, money (I would guess it's the biggest one), celebrity, the chance to date hot people. I don't know much about Down's Syndrome, but I doubt it makes you not want any of that.
Dealing with one's sexuality is complicated, presumably even more so if you have mental disabilities. Our society seems to feel like the solution is to try to force people with mental disabilities to not have sexuality. Someday, in a better world, people may see that as being as seriously fucked up as it really is.
I think heaving is probably right that she would not have been picked if she didn't have Downs. She's hot in typical way a healthy woman in her twenties is. Advertisers brainwash us into seeing everything, women's bodies included, as a product line, where you can always get something "better" with more $. What they're currently selling us as the "top of the line" woman is facial proportions typical of a 2 year old, body proportions typical of a 13 year old, but with the boobs of a stockier woman in her twenties. She doesn't look like that.
This is a more serious topic than we usually discuss here. I'm not sure what to think. This young woman may not have a good understanding of sex and may be open to exploitation. On the other hand, she's an adult and has adult desires.
She's gone through puberty and has and sexual feelings and been around men. It's not like this is a first for her.
And she's already being exploited. She's not a victorias secret model. She's the model with downs syndrome...
This model has several business ventures and she has lots of social media followers. I wish her the best, as she moves along in her career.
It appears the average IQ of a person with Down syndrome is about 50, which is similar to that of a 9 year old. This model must be a high functioning Down syndrome person, so even with an IQ near 60, she’s still below the intellect of an adult.
She’s done runway work already, so she’s not new to the spotlight, and that’s good. I appreciate Warrior and NiceSpice offering their personal insights as well.
I guess she takes away from yhe notionf working smart lulz
If that’s what makes her happy then I’m happy.
wait a minute!!!! isn't this the same mag last year that pointed out that they would be be going in a different direction regarding who their models would be? among the listed is that shitbag megan rapinoe? out with the angels in the VS collective. they're still continuing their stand on being more progressive and diversity by adding a model with downs to their roster. what could possibly be next?
the online subscriptions must be over the moon.
—>“NiceSpice have you ever seen special needs males come into a stripclub. I am not referring to the mentally ill like SJG or Icey but actual learning disabled types. How were those handled?”
I’ve met a couple of learning disabled types before, who were with older male family members. Twice what happened was the dad/uncle would pre-pay for dances and alluded to their disability and told me to “take care” of them. (I guess be sensitive and a good entertainer)
There was also one customer who comes to my home club fairly often. Occasionally, he will bring somebody he takes care of in the club with him. The guy he takes care of I have chatted with and get along with and we are friends on PokémonGo, and have done gym raids and exchanged in-game gifts before. The caretaker reg will give the guy singles for tipping stage. He won’t allow the guy to do lapdances though because apparently the one time he did purchase a dance for that guy, he acted way inappropriately and the club asked them both to leave at that time.
Nicespice if he saw and wanted you would you do a frmos in exchange for an act of generosity then the backroom? How about having loads pumped into you Toda la noche?
Or would you disappear and eat live and onions while reading?
This is corporate virtue signaling. It’s a willingness to do whatever seems would improve the brand image, even at the risk of bringing harm to a vulnerable person.
Buy our goods because we are more virtuous than our competition. If you don’t buy our underwear, you are a bad person.
One of my favs has a regular who has a serious problem with delusional thinking. He's constantly telling her he loves her, and asking her to be his girlfriend. She just repeatedly responds that she's a stripper and she provides him with company and lap dances in exchange for payment. Other dancers in the club have tried to take him away by telling him they love him and will be his girlfriend. They make dinner or movie dates with him, but then don't show up, so he comes back to my fav. The situation makes her feel guilty, and also extremely annoyed. She's thought about telling him to stay away from her, but he spends mid to high three figure per month. She has been hit with major family and car expenses in the past few months, so she needs all the income she can get. I told her that his "relationship" with her may be the best relationship with a woman he's capable of, and I'm not sure it's better that he have no relationship at all.
Okay:
-not everything at Victoria’s Secret is sexy. There is everyday lingerie, pajamas, workout clothes, accessories like handbags/slippers/gloves, sweats, etc. There are some models who shoot with them and only model non-lingerie items.
-there is VS Pink that has nothing sexy and a LOT of non-lingerie items.
-American Eagle has a full standalone store called Aerie, they sell the same stuff as VS—panties, bras, pjs, workout clothes, etc. They have had a downs girl modeling in panties and bras for several years. No one is freaking out and no one is calling the news about her. I am also suspicious that they may even use the same model tbh.
-Victoria’s Secret markets to women. They don’t have sexy posing, they don’t show nipples or crotch cleavage, much of the time they don’t even show a back shot in a thong.
So we are making a big deal of nothing, if you ask me.
It is also kind of a weird choice as far as marketing but ok. 🤷🏼♀️
@PSD the article that Cashman links to shows her in a bikini and indicates she's modeling underwear.
It’s a difficult call. There’s nothing like having a special needs person in your life to give insight into this issue. Special needs people are individuals with distinct personalities, so it may be ok for some but not for others.
I say good for her. Provided VS did a little diligence to vet out that she's able minded enough to agree to contracts, and her guardians aren't behind the scenes exploiting her. But that's the same concerns I'd have for any disability that has a mental component. Her disability has limited her options enough, there's no need to further restrict what the girl can do.
I was not a fan of VS's "inclusive" modeling stuff at first, cause it seemed like they were just throwing some different races and some fat girls in the mix, but I think as they've matured it it's gotten reasonable.
PSD you make several good points regarding VS, and their related brands. I agree, they have more reach beyond just lingerie. I also agree, they don’t put their lingerie models in sexual poses.
I’m sure my view of VS as a lingerie company is no longer entirely valid, and they have expanded into many other areas.
The Down syndrome model I linked was modeling lingerie in her VS content. She’s a beautiful young woman, and she’s definitely got more going for her beyond her VS content.
Maybe this isn’t the most appropriate place to discuss this type of sensitive (or deep) topic.
NiceSpice has shared some great insights regarding folks who have special needs - who she’s seen come to the club. It’s cool that she understands how to deal with folks who have special needs, as some dancers might not know.
On the surface - a club goer might think - Omg this dude will love it! He will feel a sexy girl grinding on him! He will get tits rubbed in his face! It’s gonna be great!
But, it’s not that simple. The special needs person might not understand the rules, or that person might forget the rules, when there are tits in his face. So, it could be setting up a person who already has emotional challenges, to fail.
It’s also possible that the special needs person could get too attached to a dancer, and almost obsess over her. Again, that’s not good.
Yeah so they have the picture of her in the VS campaign in the article. 1000% regular. Not sexual. All good. 👍🏼
@PSD It's sexual in the sense that when straight men see a woman they find attractive in a bikini or bra and panties, they are likely to have sexual thoughts about her. I don't understand what definition of sexual you're using.
Other conditions should also be given public acceptance. It is high time that there is a VS model that has irritable bowel syndrome. With proof celebrating the fact on the runway and in the photoshoots.
^^^ Go away, cacaplop.
If something that is not intended to be sexual is sexual for you, that doesn’t show irresponsible conduct on the creator’s behalf, that is a reflection of you.
Victoria’s Secret has her in a bra in what is essentially a headshot. If that’s sexy for you, there’s no social irresponsibility or exploitation on VS’s behalf. It’s not for you, it’s an everyday bra, not a sexy bra, it’s a product shot meant to sell the clothes. If that is sexual for you, it’s on you, not Victoria’s Secret.
She does not have a VS-level body. She does not compare to Alessa Ambrosio, Tyra Banks, Giselle Bundchen, et al. Wokeism is fucking nuts. The girl would be fine in a Macy's catalog.
When I go to the strip club I get up syndrome
All of those publications have become mostly irrelevant, anyways.
In the name of "pushing the envelope" by posting fat women, trans women, now women with DS, they've alienated their core base of young, horny males.
None of these woke marketing strategies occurred to VS until their revenue figures plunged. They were perfectly happy selling a sexual fantasy using ridiculously slender, tall models as the symbol of desire. They didn’t have a sudden case of conscience, they had a sudden fear of bankruptcy.
@PSD if you want a bra that's just underwear, that isn't sexy, don't you try to buy a solid-color one that's close to your skin tone, that's least likely to show through a sheer top?
It is weird how a woman can wear a bikini at the beach it people accept she's not necessarily trying to be sexy/immodest, may just be more comfortable or wants a more complete tan. But a woman couldn't walk down the street or through the mall in that bra, without it being seen as very provocative.
And true, it's not for me, I'd need a larger size for my moobs.
I saw this story online and immediately thought the same thing. I have a special needs child. This girl could have seen a VS catalogue and just thought the girls looked pretty. She does not understand the implications of dressing sexy like that. I know we all want to be inclusive. But I'm very uncomfortable with them doing this.