Just where is the cut off point?

1. Yes, let's keep the term "mileage" as a level of contact (girding, etc) and extras as everything else.
2. Let’s assume that someone from the club is reading our board and go from there. Shouldn't be sharing names, descriptions that identifies the persons (i.e. short Asian with a tattoo on her left foot, etc)
3. Yes. Even if it may be an innocent review, the perception of why we liked certain dancer may do more harm to a dancer than service. Think who may be reading this: fellow dancers, member of club staff, dancer's SO, even cops...

Suggestion: in club reviews, let's avoid anything that may lead the reader to believe he can find extras there in general, and especially, from a particular dancer. I often limit myself to something like "hot girl" or "good looking" and try to avoid mileage / extra discussion. Meanwhile, when we share our stories, as long as we do not disclose the location, I want to know all the details. Among ourselves we can share names / locations either at TUSCL convention or via private email. Make sense?

Just a matter of semantics and I do not think it matters. We all know what we are talking about. Leaving "happy" is the same no matter how one considers it obtained, "mileage" or "extras".

Loose lips sink ships...

Review the club, the atmosphere, the quality of the dancers or lack thereof. Talk about the prices, the bar set-up or lack thereof. Describe the vip area, lapdance protocol and the scene at the stage. Paint a picture of your overall experience- good, bad or ugly.

But to get specific about a dancer and the "mileage" or "extras" you acquired seems to be a too common practice by men who should know better. There is nothing good that will result from posting such information- not for you, not for the club and certainly not for the dancer...Just one man's opinion.

I don't like posting anything that could get myself or the local club in trouble. Imagine what the public reaction might be if your post was known by the general public or read on the evening news as a description for that particular strip club. Are you trying to get it shut down or are you angry with it? Then by all means go and talk about all kinds of sexual activity and make it sound real. However that's what the disclaimer on this site is all about. If you're getting really good treatment at a club but it's only from one dancer because she knows you from elsewhere, I wouldn't judge the entire club based on how she performs either.

Nothings worse than going to a club expecting high mileage or extras from so and so and not getting anything. Ultimately what you get and why is up the girl. The term your mileage may vary is a truism in this hobby for sure. I've avoided clubs where the mileage is reportedly low and no extras are available. This is what should be reported so we can save our money and more importantly our time here on this rock.

That way we won't be getting anyone in trouble, wont be accussed of bragging and will still be doing our fellow hobbyists a great service. So, if you're getting great mileage or extras keep it quiet- don't take a chance on ruining it for yourself or others. If the club is low/no mileage let us know!

TUSCL is a resource I use whenever I travel and I plan my recreation based on the reviews and comments here. It also serves as a virtual experience as I can vitually go to just about any club in the country. Keep up the great exchange of information.

Just where is the cutoff? Anytime your dick is out - it's an extra. If your zipper is down but your dick is inside your underwear - that's very high mileage. If your zipper is up but she uses her hands, tits, or mouth to get you off - that's high mileage. If your zipper is up, she doesn't rub one out for you, but you get to feel her up - that's still high mileage.

In the past, I know that I've said more than I should in reviews and posts, and still it was a lot less than what others have posted. I believe that we should be very careful what is said. I'm not convinced that the LE and/or police have any interest in what is posted, but why take a chance? I also don't want to open up any girls, clubs - or myself, for potential problems.

If you happen to receive very high mileage, extras or even a GFE and the dancer happens to read it or hear about it... well, you can probably kiss that treatment goodbye.

I've suggested it before when this topic was discussed before, and I see someone else mentioned it above; If you have some juicy details that you want to share with others for whatever reason, how about sharing it via email, rather than on here.

As JimmyBlong suggested (and it's a good idea), if we report air dances and terrible mileage, it will still help of the fellow TUSCLers. Further, we can use the ratings, too... Though not everyone will follow it - since most people probably don't venture into the discussion area, if we score a visit appropriately, one can read between the lines. If extras/happy endings/etc. are available, then a score of 10 would be indicative of that.

I report bad service by name, date, place. I report excellent service (extras, sexually gratifying extras) by hint and obfuscation. I want the news to get out about a place, where girls cheat the customers by misleading or by giving less than is rightly expected (even if the "technical" rules were followed). I want customers to know. It's good for me, in the long run.

But I also want the right kind of news to get out about a place, where girls will help men to live the life we want to live. This is about fun, not about doing everything the way our Puritanical culture might require. Sneaking around the outside edges of the law is something people do in all walks of life. I don't want a given girl or club to be indicted because of excess information on the internet; though that is a rather remote possibility, really. But I also don't want a given club to suffer from lack of business, or a customer to fail to find what he's looking for, merely because I've been overly tacit.

I don't comply with the Puritans, neither when I'm behaving out there in real life, or when I'm reporting about it. Their oppression stops at my doorstep. But I'm not explicit -- I don't need to be, and I don't want to be. Girls give different service to different blokes, and clubs have swings in each of a variety of directions of service and amenities. All reviews are rule-of-thumb and in-my-opinion and at-the-time.

Professor - I'm with you on disclosing intimate dancer details via conventions, meets, emails, etc.

driver01 - Good summize, I totally agree with you. Thanks.

jimmyblong - great input. I feel the same way as I am looking for good mileage and don't want to waste money/time finding it when I have TUSCL pointing it out to me. TUSCL is a great source of info, that's why when I go on road trips, I usually have a couple hundred sheets of papers listing state's clubs, and first pages of actual reviews on certain clubs. I highly recommend anybody seriously considering doing road trips, acquire a G.P.S. first, will save time and LOTS of gas!!

Raincoat - Super! Right to the point! I believe anytime you got Mr Happy exposed in front of the dancer, it goes from mileage to extras. Same with touching inside the trousrs.

DougS - Like you, I don't believe LE has any interest in our site. Otherwise, I'm sure founder or somebody would have said something about printouts from TUSCL being submitted into court as evidence. Thanks to the disclaimer, I doubt it will ever happen.

In the past, and will continue, I email certain TUSCL buddies about my detailed experiences at certain clubs (usually clubs that interest them also), with names, dance styles, mileage, extras catagories, etc. I trust them to keep the details to themselves or other trusted TUSCLERs. So far it has worked so I don't see a problem exchange nasty filthy degroatory details via email.

Talk about a fucking GREY area! I think that I like Raincoats definition of extras vs high mileage. If the dick is exposed, it is an extra. However, very recently I received FS ITC. And stupid me, I did not wear a raincoat. I was doing 2fers for $20 with a favorite. On the 5th song things got crazy and the little head took over. Total cost $60. No tip was asked for and none was given. Is an extra still an extra, if you do not pay extra for it? Yes. I am bragging.

I agree that it is bad policy to mention dancers names in conjunction with dancers performances. I do not. I do not use dancer names in my reviews unless they piss me off. Then I want to let you guys know who to avoid and why. All of my favorite dancers know that I do reviews on here and some of them have read them. I am trusted. The dancer that Bones mentioned made the same request of me. Although she and others have told me to mention their names because it is cheap advertising. I still don't do it. Emails with close TUSCLers is the best way to handle it. My email cup runneth over since the convention. Who? When? How much? etc... I do share information with my trusted strip club buddies. hell, I even share my favorite dancers with them. Keep it real but keep it fun.

BTW. I spoke with the manager of my favorite hotel on the phone this afternoon. He is going to COMP my next months 2 day stay. Now if I could just get the dancers to COMP me for bringing all of you guys over there...

<my 2 cents> Gentlemen never reveal their sources publicly or with a stranger. Let's face it...loose lips sink the ship.

I do believe that the essence of this forum is to discuss quality, cost, performance (in a subjective way), and the general experience.

LE loves a tip. And it only takes one tip to start the ball rolling. I work around them, and I can tell you without a doubt that a lot of those self righteous bastards don't see the world in a hedonistic manner like so many of us on this board. Even the mention of something illegal, is enough to bring the heat on our favorite clubs...so, please...Brag by email!

I agree with StripShopper. The fact is cops do monitor internet boards. Maybe not every word that gets posted here, but the point is you never know when. Strippers don't give private dances with the expectation that you will tell the whole world about it on the internet. To want to brag about it is natural. To put the dancer and the club in jeopardy from behind your internet handle is cowardly.

I guess there's some dissent here, at least I'm coming up in the minority. I still feel like there's no dang point to having TUSCL at all, if good information can't be shared. I guess the problem is in the definitions of the terms "good" and "information."

We're of accord on the idea of what you can do when you get bad service.

Say you go to a club where a girl tells you that you'll get "full contact" for your $40 dance. Then she doesn't do what you expected and you're pretty sure she knew what you expected. So, you expected that you could fondle her titties, and that she would fully straddle you, and that her top would come off, and that it would be essentially a "full contact" Florida-style lap-dance. If she doesn't give it but you still have to pay $40, then you should report the experience here, right? Maybe not name names -- in fact, it might be pointless to try to identify her specifically, since the girl can readily change her dancing name and keep on getting away with the scam. But definitely say, "Hey, I thought it was reasonable to expect a real Florida-style lap-dance and yet I didn't get it." Right?

Well, no, wrong. According to some folks here, you might ALREADY be breaking rules. You're implying that the regular level of service at the club is a Florida-style lap-dance, but that in itself might already be illegal. If you were in Memphis, it would have been illegal, even though it was pretty much the norm at places like Platinum Plus last year. If you were in New York City, it's against the rules, again. And yet many of the people who were getting those types of dances probably didn't even KNOW they were breaking the law.

There are so many levels of "doing the legal thing." It's still illegal to have anal sex in sime states, or to buy sex toys like vibrators, dildos, or fake vaginas, for example. It's certainly illegal to download internet porn across the country, believe it or not. But so many people do it that it's pointless right now to try to prosecute. I can't really decide what level of legality / illegality I'd like to keep secret, as opposed to what level I think it's fine to discuss. I had a girlfriend who let me take her up the ass. (I'm not really into that too much. But we did it.) We did it in Texas. Am I a criminal?

I guess what I'm trying to say, is, that if we cooperate with the utter letter of the law in all cases, and if we go about keeping all information hidden from the police in all cases, then we are ALREADY complying with an unreasonably restrictive state. Failing to write up something on the internet can be a choice, in itself, that HELPS the world to restrict sexuality. If you're interested in hedonism winning out a little bit over Puritanism, then maybe you shouldn't stay quiet just because a cop could read about it. The mere fact that you're letting them intimidate you into submission means ... you're already submitting.

Now I don't want TUSCL to be restricted any more than any of the rest of you do. And I don't want the fact that excessive information is posted, to restrict sexual activity here, there, anywhere. I want (as a practical goal) more sex for me and for just about anyone who is engaging in it consensually, whether or not it's technically legal in a given circumstance. That's because I believe (as a more moral goal) that consensual sex shouldn't ever be restricted by the state, whether it's a type of sex and context which currently is approved or disapproved of.

I have cut back on the specifics of what I report. But I don't want to have to continue to cut back merely because of the knowledge that other people want me to cut back, especially not merely because of the knowledge that other people who wield power in a manner I consider inappropriate want me to cut back. Maybe TUSCL isn't the place to put the info. Maybe we need some other website, a "rate strip club extras and dancer levels of high contact" website. Then we could limit that information from TUSCL.

But or me, that would essentially compete with TUSCL and ruin it. No reason to read anything here any more ...

To me, reviews about atmosphere, drink prices and music selection suck. The reason I come to this site and post reviews is to share dancer and mileage information. How many clubs do you know of that have been closed down or significantly changed because of a review on this site detailing BBBJ's or FS ITC? If that was the case, all the good clubs would be boarded up. PP Columbia, Mons Venus, Booby Trap Pompano would all be closed down. I honestly don't think we are going to divulge any secrets that that local LE don't already know about. I am confident that dancers appreciate the business a great review sends their way, whether they are aware of it or not. If a dancer asked me to not mention her or a specific incident I would respect that request. I say honesty over political correctness. As for mileage vs. extras. Who cares? Walking out happy is the goal isn't it?

ShotDisc - BRAVO! Even though I don't want to piss off favorite dancers, he has a very valid point. We paid the ($39.99) tab for access to this website, so why shouldn't we get our money's worth and use it to acquire which clubs have high mileage and 'extras' dancers? There are certain clubs I attend that I keep closed lips (pun?) on. Other clubs, I could give a shit less about, and will detail my dances vividly and explicitly!

I keep it a secret. Nobody on here knows what is my favorite club and why. Nobody knows who my favorite dancers are and why. LOL...

I actually have a VERY good deal going on in town here at a club, and with a dancer, you wouldn't expect. I'm not posting anything else about it. It's definitely out of the norm for NOLa.

Book Guy-- First post you're arguing for more specific info-- second post you don't want to share with others a good thing you have found in one of your local clubs..kind of ironic isn't it?

Not to be repetitive, I am all for sharing information. I provide back channel info all the time to known posters. What I believe is counter productive on a multitude of different levels is the posting on a public board SPECIFIC and graphic info about things that are not part of the normal, legally acceptable standards of the club or locale. There are ways to communicate your happiness or disappointment without putting dancers or clubs at unnecessary risk. From a strictly selfish standpoint, I totally understand your reluctance to divulge the good thing you have found- so I'm a little confused about your advocacy for more details.

Frankly, why would anybody want to share on a PUBLIC message board that dancer A gave them head in the vip? The LE angle is real. I have first hand knowledge of that fact and I would encourage anyone who thinks otherwise to consider what has happened with the CL public boards.

But put aside the LE aspect and consider the impact on the dancer? You may be putting her job in jeopardy. At a minimum, you certainly expose her to dealing with any asshole who reads the review walking in and expecting to receive the same service she gave you. And while she may suck every cock attached to a $100 bill, maybe she gave you special attention reserved for only every other cock attached to a $100 bill...lol. And if she doesn't deliver these "extras" that you so proudly expounded upon, she becomes a "disappointment" and is subjected to being hassled because of something you wrote- doesn't seem a very cool thing to do to someone who did right by you.

I looked over many of the reviews I've written-- (damn I am boring) but I've linked to one that conveys a message. I am curious to know what the reader would infer from what I reviewed. Is it "specific" enough?

tuscl.com

Someone earlier mentioned that there wasn't any history of a club being shutdown or mileage seriously impacted.

Though I don't think there's any chance that you can attribute any instance to what has been posted on the internet, I think I can cite a few recent reductions in mileage where what has been posted most likely at least played a part. There are also many factors that influence this, and I think probably the biggest contributer is the fact that this is an election year. With that said, two clubs come to mind.

Divas in Kokomo... was pretty well known to be providing mega-services. That is until about a month ago when "for some reason" all of the private cubicles were removed, thus putting a serious hurt on the "goings on".

Baby Dolls - Dallas... another well noted club... nationally known. All of the high backed chairs used for creating privacy "forts" have been removed. Bouncer patrols increased. Very little happening there any more.

Is it possible that information on TUSCL and other internet sites played a part in this? Who knows, but if you look at reviews over the last six months for both of these clubs (prior to the ugliness), there are some pretty graphic reviews and postings to be read.

Maybe we should have a special site for the guys who are "offended" by reality and truthful posts. A place where you can go and learn about drink specials, and number of TV's, and the comfort of the chairs and stools. That way the rest of us can stay here and post reviews that are useful and helpful.

As for clubs being shut down because of what is written here. Years ago, every white club in Memphis was padlocked by the local LE. The were all owned by one guy who broke the law. Clubs and policies change for many reasons: politics, public outcry, change in ownership, change in dancers, a get tough attitude by LE, etc. Although I can't say for certain that this board doesn't contribute to changes, I would be the farm that all the other things I mentioned are higher on the list.

Driver01: If I were in the vicinity I would definitely visit the club you reviewed. I infer that I can get a very satisfactory lap dance from almost any girl in the club. I'd expect a full-contact dance with two-way touching. I would not expect extras (meaning my dick would stay inside my pants) but your review seems to infer that I might get lucky. For me it is plenty specific. I believe that being too specific on matters that are outside the law or club rules can jeopardize the chances of those practices continuing. I've never experienced extras in a club, probably because I'm cheap, but I wouldn't be opposed to the experience if it fell in my lap.

I heard it said, "Don't put anything in an email that you wouldn't want to see on a bulletin board." I think that's a little strong for personal email but I do use that policy at work. You never know when someone will hit the "forward" button, either on purpose or by accident, and send it on to someone you'd rather not see it.

As for personal email, I see no reason to worry about sending juicy details to other tusclers. I don't do it because I'm too paranoid to publish my e-address, even though I only use that address for tuscl.

But the discussion board and club reviews are public information and should be treated differently. I have no idea if LE monitors tuscl but I'd be surprised if some asshole somewhere wasn't checking it out. There are many hypocrites out there who actually work against their own self-interest (think Republican Gays like Larry Craig). Would you be surprised to find LE as a customer in a strip club and then turning around and busting the same club for doing what he just paid for? I wouldn’t.

To all you who complain about a lack of explicit posts exposing dancers and clubs, I've got a simple solution. Each time you get a private dance, first tell the stripper that you plan to post a detailed description on the World Wide Web of everything she does for you. Then, come here and brag all you want about the mileage and extras get, secure in the knowledge that you didn't voilate any implied trust to keep things confidential. Let's see what you come with, swingers.

The last time I posted specific information about what a dancer asked me, the club was raided within 2 or 3 weeks. Restrictions were in place for quite some time afterwards and the club wasn't that much fun for a while. Actually several clubs were raided so maybe it was just a coincidence. Still, I wondered what spurred all the raids. Besides if a club is already crowded and a particular dancer is popular, what does it gain me by telling anyone that she gives great dances? Now as a guy, I might talk about her if she's really hot even if I never had a dance from her.

I think we've already worked this one out pretty thoroughly. In the past I proposed the standard that once you free willy you are talking extras as opposed to mileage. The difference is that mileage may or may not be legal someplace, but an extra is pretty obviously illegal every place. As for what to post, let's be serious, even though we often don't say BBBJTC for $60, the phrase "extras were available, I left happy for a $60 tip" communicates pretty effectively what happened was illegal, and if LE is looking here to find out what goes on in strip clubs in their own towns, well we're in trouble. As for the BBBJ or FS, or whatever, I think keeping it generically at extras is probably best since YMMV applies to extras also. Not every dancer will offer the same service at the same price, so I think it best to leave it to the customer to persue what they want with who they want. That's the fun part after all. In general I also don't think posting about extras should be done unless they are generally available, and not just to a certain customer from a specific dancer.

I agree with AN! YMMV and MILEAGE and TIP should spell out the "extras" thingy. As far as LE monitoring, I don't think they do monitor strip club websites, because they have higher priority crimes to watch for that nets them news and newspaper time. And besides, all they have to do is send in an undercover cop to find out what's going on, every once in awhile.

Keep in mind that not all customers are looking for either high mileage or extras. In fact I'd guess that most aren't. Almost any time I've ever been in a club, far fewer than half the customers bought private dances, so obviously they're there for some other reason. Which is a big reason why reviews shouldn't focus on mileage IMO.

I think it's the other way around FONDL. I believe a good percentage of customers are looking for high mileage or extras, but can't fork out the bread and butter money for it, or little wifey is going to inquire as to where the grocery money went.

I certainly hope reviews focus on mileage, as that is my main reason for visiting a club. I'm a club junkie. I'm a horny old bastard. I need to get it up and off as often as I can..... before I can't do it anymore.

True, I can enjoy myself in a club without 'getting off', but I at least want to obtain a 'hard-on' one time before leaving.

I agree with you, in that I don't see many customers getting LDs, but rather sitting with dancers. Those are the near broke blokes. Myself, I can't go into a club, just to watch stage dancing, talk with dancers, and then leave (although I have in the past unfortunately). I'll have those 'fantasies' pasted in my mind for the evening, but I would like a little touching to go along with them.

I don't believe readers of TUSCL reviews are representative of the average PL in clubs. They come here because they're hardcore, which usually translates to an interest in high mileage dances.

For those of you still following this thread...maybe I have more of an insight to the mentality of LE. These people are always looking for the easy bust...and if it involves human sexuality...all the better. We would like to think that they are focused on finding the real criminals, but the reality is that subgroups like "Vice" are often guided by politically motivated leaders.

I personally could care less about Drink Deal, Happy hour, Decor...Yada yada. But I do care about the inside tip. and I most definitely interested in the ROB or the Rip off Joint. If I give a review with a 9 or 10..."its worth your money"! And I would guarantee that Bones would get plenty of wood.

And since I've used Bones as an example...(Who I've met and can relate to, BTW Bones you're a Machine!). Yes, a lot of guys on this board have a mission, but please don't under estimate the power of your information.

Here's an example: start reading some of the wording on this site- "usasexguide.info". ...take a look...and if you read it long enough you'll notice that misinformation is used to keep things tossed up when it comes to specifics.

Regional meetings of TUSCLers is a great way to get an ideal of who can be trusted...then go create an anon email address where you can talk to your buds about specifics. (Thanks Shadowcat, for the info during our meeting)

Chandler, that's my point exactly. In most of the clubs I've ever visited, most of the customers just sit and watch and never play. They're there to drink and look at naked women, and that's all. The people here are not at all representative of the typical club goer.

My definition af an extra is anything that involves direct skin to skin contact with genitals. As someone else pointed out, that's pretty much illegal everywhere when there's money exchanged, but the lesser stuff may or may not be legal depending on where you are. Actions that would generally be considered illegal almost everywhere in the US are extras, other play is not. That's my definition.

FONDL: So, your point is that reviews should focus on things customers who just sit and watch and never read TUSCL care about, or what?

I don't think reviews should to be limited to that but such stuff is certainly appropriate. When I used to travel regularly I always read reviews first to get an idea of what different places were like. Reviews that only discussed which dancer did what were of no help to me in deciding where to go.

I think most people who read TUSCL reviews never look at or post on this discussion board. When I said we weren't typical, I was talking about those of us who post here. I have no idea whether TUSCL review readers are typical of club goers in general or not, but I suspect they're more typical than we are because they are probably much greater in number.

I think the mix of approaches you see in TUSCL reviews is just fine. Some focus on the club's setup and atmosphere, some on the dancers and mileage, some on the reviewer's experience and impressions. Some write about what they themselves care about, some try to address what they think readers will care about. All together, it usually gives me a very good picture of what to expect and whether it's a place worth checking out. I really don't have many complaints.

Chandler, I think the current mix is fine too (at least it was 2 years ago when I could read them.) I was responding to Bones' comment that reviews should focus on mileage. I disagree, when I read reviews I'd like to know more than that.