Just where is the cut off point?
Monday, October 29, 2007 2:06 PM
The topic was to get your attention.
The actual discussion revolves around acquired dancer mileage and how we go about advertising the mileage.
Now, I know in the past, especially when I was a NEWBIE, I exceeded the expectations of discussing mileage and extras in my reviews. I suppose most of it was for boasting purposes (AKA bragging rights) without regards to the dancer or club. I have learned since then.
Now that I have a lot of clubs under my belt (pun?), I've calmed down quite a bit. There are certain clubs that I still exceed my detailed limits of mileage, but these clubs are far and few inbetween.
For the most part, when I use the term 'mileage' it could me anywhere from mild grinding action to all out FS. Some people believe the terms 'mileage' and 'extras' should be seperate, I don't.
1) What is your take on 'MILEAGE' and 'EXTRAS'? Should they be seperate?
2) What are your limits on discussing either in reviews?
3) Do you feel the club or dancer is in jeopardy by our reviews?
The actual discussion revolves around acquired dancer mileage and how we go about advertising the mileage.
Now, I know in the past, especially when I was a NEWBIE, I exceeded the expectations of discussing mileage and extras in my reviews. I suppose most of it was for boasting purposes (AKA bragging rights) without regards to the dancer or club. I have learned since then.
Now that I have a lot of clubs under my belt (pun?), I've calmed down quite a bit. There are certain clubs that I still exceed my detailed limits of mileage, but these clubs are far and few inbetween.
For the most part, when I use the term 'mileage' it could me anywhere from mild grinding action to all out FS. Some people believe the terms 'mileage' and 'extras' should be seperate, I don't.
1) What is your take on 'MILEAGE' and 'EXTRAS'? Should they be seperate?
2) What are your limits on discussing either in reviews?
3) Do you feel the club or dancer is in jeopardy by our reviews?
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35 comments
2) Let’s assume that someone from the club is reading our board and go from there. Shouldn't be sharing names, descriptions that identifies the persons (i.e. short Asian with a tattoo on her left foot, etc)
3) Yes. Even if it may be an innocent review, the perception of why we liked certain dancer may do more harm to a dancer than service. Think who may be reading this: fellow dancers, member of club staff, dancer's SO, even cops...
Suggestion: in club reviews, let's avoid anything that may lead the reader to believe he can find extras there in general, and especially, from a particular dancer. I often limit myself to something like "hot girl" or "good looking" and try to avoid mileage / extra discussion. Meanwhile, when we share our stories, as long as we do not disclose the location, I want to know all the details. Among ourselves we can share names / locations either at TUSCL convention or via private email. Make sense?
Review the club, the atmosphere, the quality of the dancers or lack thereof. Talk about the prices, the bar set-up or lack thereof. Describe the vip area, lapdance protocol and the scene at the stage. Paint a picture of your overall experience- good, bad or ugly.
But to get specific about a dancer and the "mileage" or "extras" you acquired seems to be a too common practice by men who should know better. There is nothing good that will result from posting such information- not for you, not for the club and certainly not for the dancer...Just one man's opinion.
That way we won't be getting anyone in trouble, wont be accussed of bragging and will still be doing our fellow hobbyists a great service. So, if you're getting great mileage or extras keep it quiet- don't take a chance on ruining it for yourself or others. If the club is low/no mileage let us know!
TUSCL is a resource I use whenever I travel and I plan my recreation based on the reviews and comments here. It also serves as a virtual experience as I can vitually go to just about any club in the country. Keep up the great exchange of information.
If you happen to receive very high mileage, extras or even a GFE and the dancer happens to read it or hear about it... well, you can probably kiss that treatment goodbye.
I've suggested it before when this topic was discussed before, and I see someone else mentioned it above; If you have some juicy details that you want to share with others for whatever reason, how about sharing it via email, rather than on here.
As JimmyBlong suggested (and it's a good idea), if we report air dances and terrible mileage, it will still help of the fellow TUSCLers. Further, we can use the ratings, too... Though not everyone will follow it - since most people probably don't venture into the discussion area, if we score a visit appropriately, one can read between the lines. If extras/happy endings/etc. are available, then a score of 10 would be indicative of that.
But I also want the right kind of news to get out about a place, where girls will help men to live the life we want to live. This is about fun, not about doing everything the way our Puritanical culture might require. Sneaking around the outside edges of the law is something people do in all walks of life. I don't want a given girl or club to be indicted because of excess information on the internet; though that is a rather remote possibility, really. But I also don't want a given club to suffer from lack of business, or a customer to fail to find what he's looking for, merely because I've been overly tacit.
I don't comply with the Puritans, neither when I'm behaving out there in real life, or when I'm reporting about it. Their oppression stops at my doorstep. But I'm not explicit -- I don't need to be, and I don't want to be. Girls give different service to different blokes, and clubs have swings in each of a variety of directions of service and amenities. All reviews are rule-of-thumb and in-my-opinion and at-the-time.
driver01 - Good summize, I totally agree with you. Thanks.
jimmyblong - great input. I feel the same way as I am looking for good mileage and don't want to waste money/time finding it when I have TUSCL pointing it out to me. TUSCL is a great source of info, that's why when I go on road trips, I usually have a couple hundred sheets of papers listing state's clubs, and first pages of actual reviews on certain clubs. I highly recommend anybody seriously considering doing road trips, acquire a G.P.S. first, will save time and LOTS of gas!!
Raincoat - Super! Right to the point! I believe anytime you got Mr Happy exposed in front of the dancer, it goes from mileage to extras. Same with touching inside the trousrs.
DougS - Like you, I don't believe LE has any interest in our site. Otherwise, I'm sure founder or somebody would have said something about printouts from TUSCL being submitted into court as evidence. Thanks to the disclaimer, I doubt it will ever happen.
In the past, and will continue, I email certain TUSCL buddies about my detailed experiences at certain clubs (usually clubs that interest them also), with names, dance styles, mileage, extras catagories, etc. I trust them to keep the details to themselves or other trusted TUSCLERs. So far it has worked so I don't see a problem exchange nasty filthy degroatory details via email.
I agree that it is bad policy to mention dancers names in conjunction with dancers performances. I do not. I do not use dancer names in my reviews unless they piss me off. Then I want to let you guys know who to avoid and why. All of my favorite dancers know that I do reviews on here and some of them have read them. I am trusted. The dancer that Bones mentioned made the same request of me. Although she and others have told me to mention their names because it is cheap advertising. I still don't do it. Emails with close TUSCLers is the best way to handle it. My email cup runneth over since the convention. Who? When? How much? etc... I do share information with my trusted strip club buddies. hell, I even share my favorite dancers with them. Keep it real but keep it fun.
BTW. I spoke with the manager of my favorite hotel on the phone this afternoon. He is going to COMP my next months 2 day stay. Now if I could just get the dancers to COMP me for bringing all of you guys over there...
I do believe that the essence of this forum is to discuss quality, cost, performance (in a subjective way), and the general experience.
LE loves a tip. And it only takes one tip to start the ball rolling. I work around them, and I can tell you without a doubt that a lot of those self righteous bastards don't see the world in a hedonistic manner like so many of us on this board. Even the mention of something illegal, is enough to bring the heat on our favorite clubs...so, please...Brag by email!
We're of accord on the idea of what you can do when you get bad service.
Say you go to a club where a girl tells you that you'll get "full contact" for your $40 dance. Then she doesn't do what you expected and you're pretty sure she knew what you expected. So, you expected that you could fondle her titties, and that she would fully straddle you, and that her top would come off, and that it would be essentially a "full contact" Florida-style lap-dance. If she doesn't give it but you still have to pay $40, then you should report the experience here, right? Maybe not name names -- in fact, it might be pointless to try to identify her specifically, since the girl can readily change her dancing name and keep on getting away with the scam. But definitely say, "Hey, I thought it was reasonable to expect a real Florida-style lap-dance and yet I didn't get it." Right?
Well, no, wrong. According to some folks here, you might ALREADY be breaking rules. You're implying that the regular level of service at the club is a Florida-style lap-dance, but that in itself might already be illegal. If you were in Memphis, it would have been illegal, even though it was pretty much the norm at places like Platinum Plus last year. If you were in New York City, it's against the rules, again. And yet many of the people who were getting those types of dances probably didn't even KNOW they were breaking the law.
There are so many levels of "doing the legal thing." It's still illegal to have anal sex in sime states, or to buy sex toys like vibrators, dildos, or fake vaginas, for example. It's certainly illegal to download internet porn across the country, believe it or not. But so many people do it that it's pointless right now to try to prosecute. I can't really decide what level of legality / illegality I'd like to keep secret, as opposed to what level I think it's fine to discuss. I had a girlfriend who let me take her up the ass. (I'm not really into that too much. But we did it.) We did it in Texas. Am I a criminal?
I guess what I'm trying to say, is, that if we cooperate with the utter letter of the law in all cases, and if we go about keeping all information hidden from the police in all cases, then we are ALREADY complying with an unreasonably restrictive state. Failing to write up something on the internet can be a choice, in itself, that HELPS the world to restrict sexuality. If you're interested in hedonism winning out a little bit over Puritanism, then maybe you shouldn't stay quiet just because a cop could read about it. The mere fact that you're letting them intimidate you into submission means ... you're already submitting.
Now I don't want TUSCL to be restricted any more than any of the rest of you do. And I don't want the fact that excessive information is posted, to restrict sexual activity here, there, anywhere. I want (as a practical goal) more sex for me and for just about anyone who is engaging in it consensually, whether or not it's technically legal in a given circumstance. That's because I believe (as a more moral goal) that consensual sex shouldn't ever be restricted by the state, whether it's a type of sex and context which currently is approved or disapproved of.
I have cut back on the specifics of what I report. But I don't want to have to continue to cut back merely because of the knowledge that other people want me to cut back, especially not merely because of the knowledge that other people who wield power in a manner I consider inappropriate want me to cut back. Maybe TUSCL isn't the place to put the info. Maybe we need some other website, a "rate strip club extras and dancer levels of high contact" website. Then we could limit that information from TUSCL.
But or me, that would essentially compete with TUSCL and ruin it. No reason to read anything here any more ...
Not to be repetitive, I am all for sharing information. I provide back channel info all the time to known posters. What I believe is counter productive on a multitude of different levels is the posting on a public board SPECIFIC and graphic info about things that are not part of the normal, legally acceptable standards of the club or locale. There are ways to communicate your happiness or disappointment without putting dancers or clubs at unnecessary risk. From a strictly selfish standpoint, I totally understand your reluctance to divulge the good thing you have found- so I'm a little confused about your advocacy for more details.
Frankly, why would anybody want to share on a PUBLIC message board that dancer A gave them head in the vip? The LE angle is real. I have first hand knowledge of that fact and I would encourage anyone who thinks otherwise to consider what has happened with the CL public boards.
But put aside the LE aspect and consider the impact on the dancer? You may be putting her job in jeopardy. At a minimum, you certainly expose her to dealing with any asshole who reads the review walking in and expecting to receive the same service she gave you. And while she may suck every cock attached to a $100 bill, maybe she gave you special attention reserved for only every other cock attached to a $100 bill...lol. And if she doesn't deliver these "extras" that you so proudly expounded upon, she becomes a "disappointment" and is subjected to being hassled because of something you wrote- doesn't seem a very cool thing to do to someone who did right by you.
I looked over many of the reviews I've written-- (damn I am boring) but I've linked to one that conveys a message. I am curious to know what the reader would infer from what I reviewed. Is it "specific" enough?
http://www.tuscl.com/myreview.php?Review…
Though I don't think there's any chance that you can attribute any instance to what has been posted on the internet, I think I can cite a few recent reductions in mileage where what has been posted most likely at least played a part. There are also many factors that influence this, and I think probably the biggest contributer is the fact that this is an election year. With that said, two clubs come to mind.
Divas in Kokomo... was pretty well known to be providing mega-services. That is until about a month ago when "for some reason" all of the private cubicles were removed, thus putting a serious hurt on the "goings on".
Baby Dolls - Dallas... another well noted club... nationally known. All of the high backed chairs used for creating privacy "forts" have been removed. Bouncer patrols increased. Very little happening there any more.
Is it possible that information on TUSCL and other internet sites played a part in this? Who knows, but if you look at reviews over the last six months for both of these clubs (prior to the ugliness), there are some pretty graphic reviews and postings to be read.
As for clubs being shut down because of what is written here. Years ago, every white club in Memphis was padlocked by the local LE. The were all owned by one guy who broke the law. Clubs and policies change for many reasons: politics, public outcry, change in ownership, change in dancers, a get tough attitude by LE, etc. Although I can't say for certain that this board doesn't contribute to changes, I would be the farm that all the other things I mentioned are higher on the list.
As for personal email, I see no reason to worry about sending juicy details to other tusclers. I don't do it because I'm too paranoid to publish my e-address, even though I only use that address for tuscl.
But the discussion board and club reviews are public information and should be treated differently. I have no idea if LE monitors tuscl but I'd be surprised if some asshole somewhere wasn't checking it out. There are many hypocrites out there who actually work against their own self-interest (think Republican Gays like Larry Craig). Would you be surprised to find LE as a customer in a strip club and then turning around and busting the same club for doing what he just paid for? I wouldn’t.
I certainly hope reviews focus on mileage, as that is my main reason for visiting a club. I'm a club junkie. I'm a horny old bastard. I need to get it up and off as often as I can..... before I can't do it anymore.
True, I can enjoy myself in a club without 'getting off', but I at least want to obtain a 'hard-on' one time before leaving.
I agree with you, in that I don't see many customers getting LDs, but rather sitting with dancers. Those are the near broke blokes. Myself, I can't go into a club, just to watch stage dancing, talk with dancers, and then leave (although I have in the past unfortunately). I'll have those 'fantasies' pasted in my mind for the evening, but I would like a little touching to go along with them.
I personally could care less about Drink Deal, Happy hour, Decor...Yada yada. But I do care about the inside tip. and I most definitely interested in the ROB or the Rip off Joint. If I give a review with a 9 or 10..."its worth your money"! And I would guarantee that Bones would get plenty of wood.
And since I've used Bones as an example...(Who I've met and can relate to, BTW Bones you're a Machine!). Yes, a lot of guys on this board have a mission, but please don't under estimate the power of your information.
Here's an example: start reading some of the wording on this site- "usasexguide.info". ...take a look...and if you read it long enough you'll notice that misinformation is used to keep things tossed up when it comes to specifics.
Regional meetings of TUSCLers is a great way to get an ideal of who can be trusted...then go create an anon email address where you can talk to your buds about specifics. (Thanks Shadowcat, for the info during our meeting)
My definition af an extra is anything that involves direct skin to skin contact with genitals. As someone else pointed out, that's pretty much illegal everywhere when there's money exchanged, but the lesser stuff may or may not be legal depending on where you are. Actions that would generally be considered illegal almost everywhere in the US are extras, other play is not. That's my definition.
I think most people who read TUSCL reviews never look at or post on this discussion board. When I said we weren't typical, I was talking about those of us who post here. I have no idea whether TUSCL review readers are typical of club goers in general or not, but I suspect they're more typical than we are because they are probably much greater in number.