I'm all for the vax but this is insane
Tetradon
I'll act nicer if you'll act smarter.
https://twitter.com/occupydemocrats/stat…
We're going to see increased vax refusals because of the high-handed way the left is going about this.
We're going to see increased vax refusals because of the high-handed way the left is going about this.
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131 comments
But when is the left gonna take away something I do care about?
Strip clubs? Big Macs? Iced Tea? Football?
and if the tenant is real vindictive he/she will leave a nice goodbye present - pouring a couple of cans of beans down the sink drain.
https://i.imgur.com/2AEVPJi.jpg
Whatever, that leftist organization agrees with it.
Sorry for extra post
According to Wiki they're a facebook group, far from a major progressive organization, this kind of stuff is just trigger fishing for fundraising organizations.
Owner: Omar Rivero and Rafael Rivero
Date launched: 2012
Of choice thing anymore, even though I’m a proponent of having your freedoms. I equate it to polio, as that really wasn’t a choice to get vaccinated if you wanted your kids to go to school. We nearly eradicated the disease due to successful vaccination requirements, but then the anti-Vaxers allowed it to creep back in.
If you want the freedom to not get vaccinated, maybe you should be required to isolate yourself from the rest of society too?
2. A disproportionate number of unvaccinated are black or Hispanic. The disparate racial impact is real.
3. This story was reported on by the Washington Post, this isn't some internet rumor.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20…
FYI, I know it's not a major organization, but the NYT/WaPo comment sections are a great barometer of what gentry liberals are thinking, and they seem to think this is genius.
***********************
Florida landlord says tenants must get coronavirus vaccine: ‘You don’t want to get vaccinated? You have to move.’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20…
Jasmine Irby was leaving her two-bedroom apartment in South Florida last month when she noticed a letter from the management company taped to her door.
It read: “As of August 15th, all new tenants must show proof of vaccination before moving in. … Existing tenants must show proof of vaccination before leases are renewed.” The policy, the notice stated, also applied to building employees.
Irby, a security guard who had lived in the Lauderhill, Fla., building for the past two years, was appalled, she told The Washington Post. Irby, 28, had planned to renew her lease by the end of August, but she did not intend to get the coronavirus vaccine.
After unsuccessful negotiations with the management company and her landlord, Santiago A. Alvarez, Irby filed a complaint with the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services demanding that she be allowed to renew her lease “without having to disclose my personal health information.”
Republican governors shift rhetoric on masks and vaccines
After initially touting coronavirus vaccines and mask mandates, some GOP governors are now shying away from pandemic mandates. (JM Rieger/The Washington Post)
The letter about the vaccine requirement was posted on Irby’s door as Florida began to grapple with a surge of coronavirus infections attributable to the highly transmissible delta variant. To date, more than 65 percent of Florida residents have received at least one dose of the coronavirus vaccine, according to The Post’s vaccine tracker.
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Although Gov. Ron DeSantis was vaccinated in April, the Republican has said that getting immunized is a personal choice that should be left to individuals. DeSantis has pushed against mask and vaccination mandates in businesses and schools. He has also issued executive orders banning businesses and government entities from requiring proof of vaccination.
Alvarez’s policy, which was first reported by the South Florida Sun Sentinel, tests the boundaries of DeSantis’s orders as some businesses in the state attempt to enact their own coronavirus policies to combat the surge in cases. The Biden administration has urged officials in states with low vaccination rates to take a stricter stand on vaccine and mask mandates.
As Florida faces record covid-19 deaths, DeSantis says Biden should follow his lead
Irby’s attorney drafted a letter that was sent to Alvarez alleging he is violating the governor’s executive order forbidding businesses from requiring “patrons or customers” to provide proof of vaccination.
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Tenants wishing to renew their leases must now show proof of vaccination, Alvarez said, though he added that he is willing to allow more time for some long-term residents to meet the requirement. Employees who decline to get the vaccine will be terminated, Alvarez said.
After recovering from covid-19 earlier this year, recently losing two friends from virus complications, and learning that at least a dozen of his tenants have died of the illness, Alvarez — who owns about 1,200 units in Broward and Miami Dade counties — said he is not willing to compromise the health of his vaccinated employees and tenants for those unwilling to get immunized.
“It very much upsets me that my employees are exposed to [covid-19] all days of the week because there is someone who does not want to get vaccinated,” Alvarez, 80, told The Post. “If you don’t want to get vaccinated, I have the obligation and the duty to protect my workers and tenants.”
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His attorney, Juan C. Zorrilla, told The Post his client is not violating the governor’s order because tenants are not “customers or patrons” and Alvarez is not providing a service to them. Alvarez, who is willing to make exceptions for those who choose not to get vaccinated for religious or medical reasons, is not violating any other state law or county ordinance, Zorrilla added.
A spokeswoman for the governor’s office told The Post in an email that “the law is very clear,” adding that the Department of Health will issue $5,000 fines to businesses, government entities and educational institutions that require proof of vaccination. The law goes into effect Thursday.
Alvarez “can’t require vaccine passports as a condition of entry or service,” Christina Pushaw, a spokeswoman for DeSantis, told The Post.
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When vaccines were not yet widely available in the United States, Alvarez said, it was difficult to learn of a tenant dying from the virus — though in a way, it felt inevitable.
But all of that changed, Alvarez said, when vaccines were approved and people could choose to protect themselves and members of their communities.
By early August, Alvarez said he’d had enough of DeSantis’s comments and orders against vaccine and mask mandates. So he drafted the policy and issued letters to his nearly 70 employees, giving them until Aug. 15 to get the first dose of the vaccine or face termination. Two declined to get vaccinated and walked away from the job, Alvarez said.
Then, he sent tenants a letter encouraging them to get immunized as soon as possible. New tenants, the letter stated, must also show proof of vaccination as of Aug. 15. Those wishing to renew their leases were told to do the same.
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“You don’t want to get vaccinated? You have to move,” Alvarez told The Post. “And if you don’t move, one must move forward with eviction.”
He added: “It’s a lack of consideration for your neighbor, it’s a lack of consideration to their own families, to their children.”
Alvarez said most of his tenants and employees have praised him for putting the policy in place.
Irby, whose lease ended on Aug. 31, vacated the premises at the end of the month and moved in with her brother.
“No one wants to live anywhere where they are not wanted … If that’s the case, then I might as well get out,” Irby told The Post. “It was just best that I walked away.”
The next step after that is a total ban on cash transactions in adult entertainment establishments, because “human trafficking”.
But I’m just a conspiracy theorist, I’m sure if Biden tried that, the whole country would suddenly rise up and risk their lives to fight for the right to privacy in strip clubs.
SJG
But the original idea was just to slow COVID down, don't have everyone getting sick at the same time.
But when they extended it into May, the objective changed. Now they were "protecting people", keeping them "safe", and stopping them from "getting sick".
This was idiocy.
They were trying to build a new kind of society, one which is without viruses, The Republic of Hygienic Virtue. And Gavin was our Supreme Being.
It is not really "liberals", it is not the Progressive Wing of the Democratic Party. It is the conservative wing, the Neo-Liberals.
It was a way of avoiding talking about real stuff, like Medicare for All, or Universal Basic Income. The national leadership of the Democratic Party had decided that letting those kinds of issues get talked about would cost them the election. So they substituted COVID hysteria and just talked about that, and promoted fear with masking, testing, and talk about the vaccine.
SJG
A Global Hysteria? The Case of the UK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WkDDVXL…
Its people like Biden, Pelosi, and Newsom. These are the national leadership, and they were afraid of Bernie Sanders, that he would force them to debate more progressive issues. And they knew that in the wake of Strom Thurmond's State's Rights campaign, and Richard Nixon's Southern Strategy, that such talk would cost them the election.
Biden listed Adlai Stevenson, George McGovern, and Michael Dukakis. He said they were "all very liberal, but they all lost".
So that was his take.
And then Jim Clyburn in South Carolina ended up being the king maker, before Super Tuesday. He talked about 1972, a code for George McGovern. He did not want that.
So they decided that they had to get Bernie Sanders out, just so that he could not force the discussion of a progressive slate of issues.
So COVID hysteria became the counter to Donald Trump and to the Democratic Party's own Progressive Wing.
SJG
I know you and I are both pro vaxx, but totalitarian shit like this scares me, and makes my more conservative friends not want the vaxx out of pure spite. I know it's not rational, but it exists.
@Mr. Huffy, you say it's not people like the Occupy movement when that's exactly who I quoted.
https://twitter.com/occupydemocrats/stat…
Not sure who the real source of the position is, versus who is just reporting on it as news. And Occupy was a long time ago. Right now it is the national leadership of the Democratic Party, the neo-liberals. And I am opposed to all vaccination requirements, pressure, or coercion.
SJG
Evicting current tenants would be harder. But could always say they pose a a threat. Or no cause evictions.
But it should be illegal to do shit like this.
SJG
SJG
Be careful out there. The next half eaten hamburger you pull out of the dumpster may be from one of your "fake" covid carriers
SJG
I'll say up front that I'm not 100% on board with this. I do believe that COVID is an actual health/safety threat that carries greater than average risk to health and life. At the same time, I also believe in people having sovereignty over what goes into their bodies. But, if you believe in the rights of private business, then it could be within a businesses right to enact requirements regarding factors that could affect the health and well-being of other tenants or customers.
Where this will get legally fluid is the fact that schools (private and public) throughout the U.S. (including Florida) require a broad range of vaccines to enter the building and get an education. This is also the case at colleges, where students live in a landlord/tenant dynamic and pre-COVID vaccine mandates held largely without protest.
What would have been interesting is if the landlord had included in his tenancy requirement the sort of vaccine mandates that we *all* grew up with and are in place today: chicken pox, polio, rubella, mumps, and measles, etc. This would give the Florida state government many more headaches in trying to overturn the landlord's requirement without invalidating other long-existing and generally popular vaccine mandates.
But as Fauci said back in June 2020, 60% of the infections are so minor that they are not even felt.
Suppose a landlord said that you had to being a doctor's note saying that you do not have the genetic tendency to green eyes.
SJG
SJG
This trope that it's all mouth-breathing conservatives refusing the jab needs to die.
This is the problem with the vaccine and with the COVID response.
SJG
Precautions and vaccines do not stop potential exposures, but they do blunt transmission.
"Suppose a landlord said that you had to being [sic] a doctor's note saying that you do not have the genetic tendency to green eyes."
Well ... first you have to ask if there's a pre-existing precedent of mandates against a 100% aesthetic genetic features (like green eyes). And the answer is that there isn't, because you can't catch green eyes, and green eyes won't land you in the ICU. But there are pre-existing vaccine mandates against infectious diseases like chicken pox, mumps, measles, etc.
And then you have to ask if the "green eyes" argument is being made by a creepy twat who's in a continuous fit of angry pearl clutching because he's literally the only person in Silicon Valley who couldn't figure out his own internet connection when the public libraries closed during the COVID shutdowns.
false, covid infections are transmitted every day, despite the precautions like masking and social distancing and sheltering, and despite the vaccine. The vaccine does not work very well.
We do not require people to be vaccinated against chicken pox, mumps, or measles just to move into an apartment building. That would be a bad line to cross.
SJG
Unless the virus spreads from one apartment to another, there's no public health rationale. I doubt that landlord has mandated vaccines for anything else; at least, I'm sure that would have made it into the piece as it is very pertinent.
By coercing or even just "encouraging" enough private enterprises to do things like this, you can make it impossible to have any semblance of a normal life without legislating freedom away. Vaccines are just one way our betters in DC, New York, and Silicon Valley are pushing "totalitarian shit," like a version of the Chinese social credit. And it's always exercised "for our own good."
*And before someone brings this up, abortion does not count, we're too divided.
I supported the shelter order, but only for March and April of 2020. We needed to do something because the number of tested cases was doubling every week. That is scary.
But by mid-April it had clearly been changed to gentle linear growth.
The original plan was to lift it Monday May 4, 2020. They should have stayed with that.
But instead, Gavin got involved with his Grandstanding and Gaslighting.
It was no longer to slow Covid down. Now it was to "protect people", to keep them "safe", and to stop them from "getting sick". This was idiotic.
SJG
SJG
SJG
A better comparison would be the coordinated vaccine pushes when the vaccines for things like polio, measles, mumps, and chicken pox were first released. I *also* wasn't old enough to remember this, but via conversations with my parents and grandparents the impression I got was that there was massive government and social pressure to get vaccinated. To the degree that the unvaccinated were regarded as traitors to U.S. interests. The U.S. government at that time also dumped large sums of money into non-profits (like the March of Dimes) to help pressure people towards vaccination.
And, of course, there came the eventual vaccine mandates in schools in colleges for all of these diseases. And the U.S. military had mandatory vaccinations for anyone in the service. But, by the time vaccine mandates became a thing that affected me, there was little or no pressure at all. It was just a thing everybody did and nobody got their knickers in a knot.
So, I'm not sure I'm buying the whole "We've never seen this before!" with regard to pressure to get vaccinated for COVID. It's not like I've written a thesis paper on the topic, but I strongly suspect that Federal and State governments haven't been previously reluctant to put their finger on the scale with regard to applying pressure towards health mandates.
And there lies the legal rub. There is a long-standing and accepted precedent for vaccine mandates in private and public settings, and in settings where people live as tenants. The test is whether or not that precedent can be carried over to residential properties that are privately owned.
And that legal test will occur in the court system, which is why it's not even remotely totalitarian. That's how non-totalitarianism works. Someone decides to push the limits of a law, it goes to court, and then the judicial system makes a determination based on evidence and testimony. What this landlord is doing is not a symptom of things being broken; it's a symptom of sound jurisprudence.
And, if I had to bet one way or another, I suspect that the landlord will lose.
And since it's not a public health threat on the level of polio, I'm not buying the public good argument. It's more on the level of coercing someone to get the annual flu shot. What socially undesirable behaviors are grounds to deny someone a place to live? What precedent does this set?
As for the courts making it non-totalitarian, the impulse is still there. Our Dear Leader implemented an unconstitutional moratorium on evictions, knowing it would be overturned by the courts. It still took effect.
I just don't want the country to turn into a place where you can be denied the necessary implements for human life based on not engaging in a certain socially-desirable behavior. And I'll take a little more COVID for that.
They punish people for not complying. The worst part is threatening people with either getting vaccinated or losing their livelihoods.
They don't guarantee people will have access to any needed health care as a byproduct of the vaccine
The mandates are politically not socially motivated.
SJG
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The COVID hysteria was promoted by the National Leadership of the Democratic Party, in order to suppress discussion of more progressive things like Universal Health Care, Universal Basic Income, and the Green New Deal.
SJG
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The reason we do not have universal health care is our history of slavery, racism, eugenics, and social darwinism. And it is the continuing legacy of Strom Thurmond's 1948 States Rights Campaign, Richard Nixon's 1968 Southern Strategy, and Ronald Reagan's 1980 campaigning about States Rights in the Mississippi Back Delta where the 3 voter registration workers had been murdered by the KKK.
SJG
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https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-life…
25,
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-life…
Yes, it has lowered our life expectancies a little bit. And this is mostly because we have done a bad job of controlling the big chronic conditions.
But if we had universal health care, we would have a much larger life expectancy and less of these chronic conditions.
The National Leadership of the Democratic Party decided that it would be a disaster to talk about this though in the 2020 election cycle. So they promoted a hysterical (Gavin Newsom and Andrew Cuomo) way of talking about COVID.
SJG
1. Covid cut our life expectancy a little bit. But Universal Health Care would make a large improvement, making up for what COVID cost us.
2. Democratic Party leadership decide on a hysterical approach to COVID, cause talking about more progressive issues would have meant a Republican victory nation wide in 2020.
SJG
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Besides, it's a laugh to see you pimping single-payer (thought Obamacare was supposed to end the "universal health care" debate, lol). That just means the orderlies pin you down before sticking you with your Haldol.
So the National Leadership of the Democratic Party decided to take a hysterical approach to COVID (Gavin Newsom, Andrew Cuomo, Anthony Fauci) to suppress discussion of these more progressive issues.
It was just a political calculation. But using COVID hysteria and COVID types of authority, were wrong.
SJG
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That virulent opposition is called "common sense." Trust me.
SJG
So min 3.5 Meg per year, or min 10,000 per day.
Covid only increased this by a small amount. Universal Health Care would make a much bigger difference.
SJG
The truth shall not be suppressed!
SJG
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It's almost like you haven't been here for the past several years...
Remember, Obama was able to pass his health care. But Bill Clinton had come in with I think a 52 seat Senate majority and he still was not able to get his passed.
SJG
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I am glad that we have the vaccine, but it seems to be only partially effective, and it is being used to propagate fear too.
The Democratic Party Leadership took this approach to COVID to silence discussion of more progressive issues.
SJG
https://www.spicylingerie.com/ey-yh3159x…
But yeah we would be fairing through this pandemic better if we had universal Healthcare. If we had an actual health care system rather than a health care industry.
If people had access to viable care for diabetes obesity etc of course less would die of covid.
But the thing is we don't and won't for the foreseeable future. We're stuck with what we have.
What we need is to stop pandering to the private sector and put people first.
Somehow universal health care isn't popular when they see the tab.
https://apple.news/A4uxY401hQm6IDqAdTYgS…
I am vaxed got third recently. It’s called looking out for number one.
So our minimum annual death rate has to be at least 3.5 million. And our minimum daily death rate 10,000.
The vast majority of our deaths are caused by preventable chronic conditions. COVID is not a chronic condition.
We do have higher rates of the big chronic conditions than the countries which have universal health care. If we want a lower mortality rate, greater life expectancy, lower infant mortality, and lower costs, then we need to go to universal health care.
As it is now, the precautions, the masking, the testing, and the vaccination push amount to just inducing irrational and superstitious fear. And it is from this that the greatest dangers associated with COVID come.
SJG
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But the vaccine is better than nothing
Without "businesses and corporations," you would starve.
SJG
SJG
Now this particular vaccine does not seem to work very well. And as it is a very unusual type of vaccine, no one knows what the long term effects are, or what a 3rd shot would do.
But the fear is irrational because the virus is only making a small addition to our death rate. Far more people have been immunized by natural exposure, and immunized better, then it has ever been possible to inject with the vaccine.
The authorities mislead us, downplaying the propagation of herd immunity.
SJG
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I'd tell you not to get stupid and propagate your virus around strip clubs, but you don't seem to go to many.
SJG
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SJG
Hey 25, you notice how conversations get a lot smarter around here after the San Jose Public Library closes?
Yeah, the problem is this pandemic should have been over, but these pathetic fools that claim to know more than our very well learned scientists are killing us. The biggest fools are those that tell us that they are going to do their own research, Google is a great tool for doing research, but the the research is only good if you have the knowledge of which research is reliable and these fools just keep listening to these charismatic liars with an agenda that is just despicable, attempting to profit from the ignorance of trusting people, that aren't smart enough to realize that they don't care at all about them, and are only in this for their own personal gain
The authorities are lying to us about hospital data. And they have always covered up the fact that there are vastly more cases than those officially tested.
Even Fauci said, back in June 2020, before there was so much of a hysteria policy set in stone, that 70% of Americans had already been exposed to the Covid virus. 70%, meaning that we were at the threshold of herd immunity back then. And then he said that of that 70%, in 60% of these exposures, nothing was felt, NOTHING AT ALL!
This gets right to the level of harm which Covid is causing, and to how herd immunity spreads while people feel NOTHING!
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Elon Musk supports Alex Berenson, but Amazon had suppressed his books. Musk has become a hero because he told the public health authorities where to stick it, and then he just reopened his factory. I was looking to the spirited debate because of his lawsuit, Musk's experts versus the public health officials. But they do not want this kind of debate. They settled the lawsuit just by giving Musk everything he wants.
SJG
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Yes 25 most internet "research" consists of Googling and citing the first site that confirms your beliefs.
And conspiracy theories psychologically come from people wanting to feel more important than they are. Delusions of unnatural importance are textbook schizophrenia.
What would happen from putting SJG and Desertscrub, our two greatest schizophrenics, in a room together? Would it generate a nuclear reaction of insanity?
SJG
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The need for it is overblown, as is the confidence which is being placed in it.
A lot of it is just because the national leadership of the Democratic Party did not want there to be any talk about Universal Health Care. If we talk seriously about COVID, it will come to the understanding that we need Universal Health Care. But national party leadership decided that that would cost them the election.
SJG
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You're so boring.
Biden and the party leadership had already decided that they could not be talking about a progressive slate of issues, or it would cost them the election.
But if you talked about COVID in any kind of rational way, it would turn into a discussion about Universal Health Care.
SJG
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It's a dream, not a policy, because no UHC policy survives contact with American reality.
AOC says what she wants, but she usually does not oppose Biden and the Senate Democrats.
Rational talk about COVID would end up being talk about Universal Health Care. The party leadership has wanted to avoid that.
SJG
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SJG
The Sanders and Warren plans were shit, amounting to an across-the-board pay cut to already-overworked providers.
Besides, like I said, it did not give them better COVID outcomes.
Strange, he's done posting right when public libraries in that time zone close.
Show me a single UHC proposal that can work here. Colorado, California, and Vermont all found it fiscally unsustainable.
And the pandemic taught us that benefits for people are possible when politicians at least portray the illusion of putting the American public over private sector profits
Private sector profits put food on your table.
You're a right winger who opposes universal health care that's your prerogative.
I'm a pragmatist who knows Medicare payment rates will drive physicians and hospitals out of business. They rely on higher private payment rates to stay afloat.
I would support a viable UHC proposal, I also don't see one.
SJG
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SJG
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