I'm all for the vax but this is insane

Agree. I’ve been vaccinated - got it as soon as my age group became eligible.

But when is the left gonna take away something I do care about?

Strip clubs? Big Macs? Iced Tea? Football?

not smart for the landlord to be acting this way. going forward that tenant will stop paying rent. a great way to save up for the move top the next apartment. also generally takes up to a year to have a tenant to officially vacate the premises.

and if the tenant is real vindictive he/she will leave a nice goodbye present - pouring a couple of cans of beans down the sink drain.

👎‍
https://i.imgur.com/2AEVPJi.jpg

Story really needs more details. It sounds like it could possibly be a conservative landlord trolling the left with regards to eviction moratoriums and vaccine mandates.
Whatever, that leftist organization agrees with it.

I got the first vaccine not really by choice but social pressure from my family. But the hypocrisy is, what about my body my choice???

This is beyond ridiculous. Anyone that agrees with the left at this point isnt paying attention or they're just dumb(and these people shouldn't have voting rights).

Did your family physically tie you down and administer the shot? Succumbing to familial social pressure is still, at the end of the day, a choice

This has to be fake news. Eviction laws are pretty goddam strong and I’m will to bet without doing a single second of research that you can’t evict a tenant for refusing to get vaccinated. It might be a little easier to deny a new tenant a lease for it, but I’ll bet that’s probably not enforceable either. You’re being trolled and triggered to keep the cons and libs at each other’s throats.

There’s not even a link or shred of proof identifying who this supposed landlord is. Fake news.

Sorry for extra post

^ Per Yahtzee above, there's a major left organization supporting the concept. Still frightening.

I'm not sure this landlord story is real but I'm not with the heavy handed approach. I didn't really want the vax but got it after listening to a big pharma scientist that I went to school with. Will never understand why folks just won't listen to experts.

^ Even if the landlord story was completely fabricated, a major progressive organization thinks it's a good idea. That should scare you.

^ What major progressive organization ?

^ Occupy Democrats, who tweeted their support for it.

Who the hell is occupy Democrats / anyone ever heard of them before?
According to Wiki they're a facebook group, far from a major progressive organization, this kind of stuff is just trigger fishing for fundraising organizations.

^ Occupy Democrats is a United States-based, left-wing media outlet built around a Facebook Group and corresponding website. Established in 2012, it publishes false information, hyperpartisan content, and clickbait. Wikipedia
Owner: Omar Rivero and Rafael Rivero
Date launched: 2012

I've heard of Occupy Democrats many times. Most of us who follow politics closely have.

^ I never have but that’s not the point, how is a tiny little media outlet being characterized as a major organization and I pasted the wiki description they’re just posting click bait for financial gain, yet y’all claim stupid shit like this is real when it’s so obviously a fugazy

I’m not so sure about this freedom
Of choice thing anymore, even though I’m a proponent of having your freedoms. I equate it to polio, as that really wasn’t a choice to get vaccinated if you wanted your kids to go to school. We nearly eradicated the disease due to successful vaccination requirements, but then the anti-Vaxers allowed it to creep back in.

If you want the freedom to not get vaccinated, maybe you should be required to isolate yourself from the rest of society too?

1. If you want more people getting vaccinated, is politicizing it to pat yourself on the back a wise move?

2. A disproportionate number of unvaccinated are black or Hispanic. The disparate racial impact is real.

3. This story was reported on by the Washington Post, this isn't some internet rumor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20…

^ this story isn’t showing in my subscription to the Washington Post, I just looked at the website searched it for this story and it isn’t coming up

It's there. Pasted in full below.

FYI, I know it's not a major organization, but the NYT/WaPo comment sections are a great barometer of what gentry liberals are thinking, and they seem to think this is genius.

***********************


Florida landlord says tenants must get coronavirus vaccine: ‘You don’t want to get vaccinated? You have to move.’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20…


Jasmine Irby was leaving her two-bedroom apartment in South Florida last month when she noticed a letter from the management company taped to her door.

It read: “As of August 15th, all new tenants must show proof of vaccination before moving in. … Existing tenants must show proof of vaccination before leases are renewed.” The policy, the notice stated, also applied to building employees.

Irby, a security guard who had lived in the Lauderhill, Fla., building for the past two years, was appalled, she told The Washington Post. Irby, 28, had planned to renew her lease by the end of August, but she did not intend to get the coronavirus vaccine.

After unsuccessful negotiations with the management company and her landlord, Santiago A. Alvarez, Irby filed a complaint with the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services demanding that she be allowed to renew her lease “without having to disclose my personal health information.”

Republican governors shift rhetoric on masks and vaccines
After initially touting coronavirus vaccines and mask mandates, some GOP governors are now shying away from pandemic mandates. (JM Rieger/The Washington Post)
The letter about the vaccine requirement was posted on Irby’s door as Florida began to grapple with a surge of coronavirus infections attributable to the highly transmissible delta variant. To date, more than 65 percent of Florida residents have received at least one dose of the coronavirus vaccine, according to The Post’s vaccine tracker.

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Although Gov. Ron DeSantis was vaccinated in April, the Republican has said that getting immunized is a personal choice that should be left to individuals. DeSantis has pushed against mask and vaccination mandates in businesses and schools. He has also issued executive orders banning businesses and government entities from requiring proof of vaccination.

Alvarez’s policy, which was first reported by the South Florida Sun Sentinel, tests the boundaries of DeSantis’s orders as some businesses in the state attempt to enact their own coronavirus policies to combat the surge in cases. The Biden administration has urged officials in states with low vaccination rates to take a stricter stand on vaccine and mask mandates.

As Florida faces record covid-19 deaths, DeSantis says Biden should follow his lead

Irby’s attorney drafted a letter that was sent to Alvarez alleging he is violating the governor’s executive order forbidding businesses from requiring “patrons or customers” to provide proof of vaccination.

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Tenants wishing to renew their leases must now show proof of vaccination, Alvarez said, though he added that he is willing to allow more time for some long-term residents to meet the requirement. Employees who decline to get the vaccine will be terminated, Alvarez said.

After recovering from covid-19 earlier this year, recently losing two friends from virus complications, and learning that at least a dozen of his tenants have died of the illness, Alvarez — who owns about 1,200 units in Broward and Miami Dade counties — said he is not willing to compromise the health of his vaccinated employees and tenants for those unwilling to get immunized.

“It very much upsets me that my employees are exposed to [covid-19] all days of the week because there is someone who does not want to get vaccinated,” Alvarez, 80, told The Post. “If you don’t want to get vaccinated, I have the obligation and the duty to protect my workers and tenants.”

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His attorney, Juan C. Zorrilla, told The Post his client is not violating the governor’s order because tenants are not “customers or patrons” and Alvarez is not providing a service to them. Alvarez, who is willing to make exceptions for those who choose not to get vaccinated for religious or medical reasons, is not violating any other state law or county ordinance, Zorrilla added.

A spokeswoman for the governor’s office told The Post in an email that “the law is very clear,” adding that the Department of Health will issue $5,000 fines to businesses, government entities and educational institutions that require proof of vaccination. The law goes into effect Thursday.

Alvarez “can’t require vaccine passports as a condition of entry or service,” Christina Pushaw, a spokeswoman for DeSantis, told The Post.

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When vaccines were not yet widely available in the United States, Alvarez said, it was difficult to learn of a tenant dying from the virus — though in a way, it felt inevitable.

But all of that changed, Alvarez said, when vaccines were approved and people could choose to protect themselves and members of their communities.

By early August, Alvarez said he’d had enough of DeSantis’s comments and orders against vaccine and mask mandates. So he drafted the policy and issued letters to his nearly 70 employees, giving them until Aug. 15 to get the first dose of the vaccine or face termination. Two declined to get vaccinated and walked away from the job, Alvarez said.

Then, he sent tenants a letter encouraging them to get immunized as soon as possible. New tenants, the letter stated, must also show proof of vaccination as of Aug. 15. Those wishing to renew their leases were told to do the same.

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“You don’t want to get vaccinated? You have to move,” Alvarez told The Post. “And if you don’t move, one must move forward with eviction.”

He added: “It’s a lack of consideration for your neighbor, it’s a lack of consideration to their own families, to their children.”

Alvarez said most of his tenants and employees have praised him for putting the policy in place.

Irby, whose lease ended on Aug. 31, vacated the premises at the end of the month and moved in with her brother.

“No one wants to live anywhere where they are not wanted … If that’s the case, then I might as well get out,” Irby told The Post. “It was just best that I walked away.”

The next step is vaccine passports required for entry to bars and clubs.

The next step after that is a total ban on cash transactions in adult entertainment establishments, because “human trafficking”.

But I’m just a conspiracy theorist, I’m sure if Biden tried that, the whole country would suddenly rise up and risk their lives to fight for the right to privacy in strip clubs.

@8TM, wouldn't shock me. It seems like our betters in DC saw China's social credit system as a role model, not a cautionary tale.

Nice pull Tetra. I was wrong in assuming it was fake news. I still think it’s not enforceable for eviction, and it seems like the LL is only using it for new tenants or renewals, despite using word ‘eviction’ near the end. That’s not as hard to achieve at eviction but he’s definitely going to get sued by tenants or DeSantis. Should be interesting.

The vaccination pressure just feeds the hysteria and the fear!

SJG

Here in Santa Clara County is where the Shelter Order started, March 13th, 2020

But the original idea was just to slow COVID down, don't have everyone getting sick at the same time.

But when they extended it into May, the objective changed. Now they were "protecting people", keeping them "safe", and stopping them from "getting sick".

This was idiocy.

They were trying to build a new kind of society, one which is without viruses, The Republic of Hygienic Virtue. And Gavin was our Supreme Being.


It is not really "liberals", it is not the Progressive Wing of the Democratic Party. It is the conservative wing, the Neo-Liberals.


It was a way of avoiding talking about real stuff, like Medicare for All, or Universal Basic Income. The national leadership of the Democratic Party had decided that letting those kinds of issues get talked about would cost them the election. So they substituted COVID hysteria and just talked about that, and promoted fear with masking, testing, and talk about the vaccine.

SJG

A Global Hysteria? The Case of the UK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WkDDVXL…

^ Right, those conservatives in Occupy Democrats. Take your meds, man.

Its not really people like the Occupy Movement.

Its people like Biden, Pelosi, and Newsom. These are the national leadership, and they were afraid of Bernie Sanders, that he would force them to debate more progressive issues. And they knew that in the wake of Strom Thurmond's State's Rights campaign, and Richard Nixon's Southern Strategy, that such talk would cost them the election.

Biden listed Adlai Stevenson, George McGovern, and Michael Dukakis. He said they were "all very liberal, but they all lost".

So that was his take.

And then Jim Clyburn in South Carolina ended up being the king maker, before Super Tuesday. He talked about 1972, a code for George McGovern. He did not want that.

So they decided that they had to get Bernie Sanders out, just so that he could not force the discussion of a progressive slate of issues.

So COVID hysteria became the counter to Donald Trump and to the Democratic Party's own Progressive Wing.

SJG

@ Tetradon I didn't see that story I think it's a little weird but good find, still don't see the point unless it's being used to raise money politically.

@25, trust me, I'm not here to raise any money, and I doubt WaPo has any desire to endorse the conservative agenda.

I know you and I are both pro vaxx, but totalitarian shit like this scares me, and makes my more conservative friends not want the vaxx out of pure spite. I know it's not rational, but it exists.

@Mr. Huffy, you say it's not people like the Occupy movement when that's exactly who I quoted.

I look at your link:
https://twitter.com/occupydemocrats/stat…

Not sure who the real source of the position is, versus who is just reporting on it as news. And Occupy was a long time ago. Right now it is the national leadership of the Democratic Party, the neo-liberals. And I am opposed to all vaccination requirements, pressure, or coercion.

SJG

If it's real and the judge was conservative. The landlord would win lawsuits. There aren't laws that prohibit discrimination against the unvaccinated.

Evicting current tenants would be harder. But could always say they pose a a threat. Or no cause evictions.


But it should be illegal to do shit like this.

No, there are Constitutional protections which could be invoked to protect about trying to violate privacy by enforcing vaccination.

SJG

I just don't get why people let themselves get spun up all the time on political garbage and sensationalist media. There is soo much more to life than volunteering to have your buttons pushed.

We are all having our buttons pushed 365 days per year. So try to use denial, others try to respond.

SJG

Nice try SJG

Be careful out there. The next half eaten hamburger you pull out of the dumpster may be from one of your "fake" covid carriers

Both sides try to push our buttons everyday. Ignoring it does not lessen the effect.

SJG

Except that this isn't "totalitarian shit". This is a private landlord and landowner believing that he has the right to enforce what *he sees* as a health/safety measure to protect other tenants. And it will be adjudicated in court, which never actually happens within the context of genuine totalitarianism.

I'll say up front that I'm not 100% on board with this. I do believe that COVID is an actual health/safety threat that carries greater than average risk to health and life. At the same time, I also believe in people having sovereignty over what goes into their bodies. But, if you believe in the rights of private business, then it could be within a businesses right to enact requirements regarding factors that could affect the health and well-being of other tenants or customers.

Where this will get legally fluid is the fact that schools (private and public) throughout the U.S. (including Florida) require a broad range of vaccines to enter the building and get an education. This is also the case at colleges, where students live in a landlord/tenant dynamic and pre-COVID vaccine mandates held largely without protest.

What would have been interesting is if the landlord had included in his tenancy requirement the sort of vaccine mandates that we *all* grew up with and are in place today: chicken pox, polio, rubella, mumps, and measles, etc. This would give the Florida state government many more headaches in trying to overturn the landlord's requirement without invalidating other long-existing and generally popular vaccine mandates.

People are exposed to COVID everyday. The precautions and the vaccine do not stop this.

But as Fauci said back in June 2020, 60% of the infections are so minor that they are not even felt.

Suppose a landlord said that you had to being a doctor's note saying that you do not have the genetic tendency to green eyes.

SJG

France had the most antivaxers in Europe. They mandated vaccine, created vaccine passports, and now 85% of people over 12 are vaccinated. Lowest covid in Europe. Its probably the best way to save lives of conservatives and get the economy back running again.

UK and Israel have the highest vax rate, and they have a very high delta variant rate.

SJG

^ Except that vaccination rates are lowest among blacks and Latinos, especially in urban settings.

This trope that it's all mouth-breathing conservatives refusing the jab needs to die.

COVID has always carried a risk of racism and discrimination. This county was making posters that said that COVID spread because of Latinos. And then FOX News missed no opportunity when they could tell their viewers that COVID was spread by Afro-Americans.

This is the problem with the vaccine and with the COVID response.

SJG

SJG said: "People are exposed to COVID everyday. The precautions and the vaccine do not stop this."

Precautions and vaccines do not stop potential exposures, but they do blunt transmission.

"Suppose a landlord said that you had to being [sic] a doctor's note saying that you do not have the genetic tendency to green eyes."

Well ... first you have to ask if there's a pre-existing precedent of mandates against a 100% aesthetic genetic features (like green eyes). And the answer is that there isn't, because you can't catch green eyes, and green eyes won't land you in the ICU. But there are pre-existing vaccine mandates against infectious diseases like chicken pox, mumps, measles, etc.

And then you have to ask if the "green eyes" argument is being made by a creepy twat who's in a continuous fit of angry pearl clutching because he's literally the only person in Silicon Valley who couldn't figure out his own internet connection when the public libraries closed during the COVID shutdowns.

"Precautions and vaccines do not stop potential exposures, but they do blunt transmission."

false, covid infections are transmitted every day, despite the precautions like masking and social distancing and sheltering, and despite the vaccine. The vaccine does not work very well.

We do not require people to be vaccinated against chicken pox, mumps, or measles just to move into an apartment building. That would be a bad line to cross.

SJG

@CMI, I might not be as old as some of you, but I've never seen this coordinated a public/private effort to intrude into someone's personal health decisions.* We have the government pushing mandates on anyone who contracts with them (and that's a much larger list than you might think), a huge amount of tech social pressure pushing a single line, and now people like this.

Unless the virus spreads from one apartment to another, there's no public health rationale. I doubt that landlord has mandated vaccines for anything else; at least, I'm sure that would have made it into the piece as it is very pertinent.

By coercing or even just "encouraging" enough private enterprises to do things like this, you can make it impossible to have any semblance of a normal life without legislating freedom away. Vaccines are just one way our betters in DC, New York, and Silicon Valley are pushing "totalitarian shit," like a version of the Chinese social credit. And it's always exercised "for our own good."

*And before someone brings this up, abortion does not count, we're too divided.

^ And to anyone who is about to call me an anti-vaxxer, I've posted a million pro-vax comments here and have a graduate life sciences degree.

I am oppose to any mandatory vaccination or any other mandatory precautions. And I am opposed to any of the kinds of harassments that Biden seems to support.

I supported the shelter order, but only for March and April of 2020. We needed to do something because the number of tested cases was doubling every week. That is scary.

But by mid-April it had clearly been changed to gentle linear growth.

The original plan was to lift it Monday May 4, 2020. They should have stayed with that.

But instead, Gavin got involved with his Grandstanding and Gaslighting.

It was no longer to slow Covid down. Now it was to "protect people", to keep them "safe", and to stop them from "getting sick". This was idiotic.

SJG

^^^ Idiotic ... like a guy who talks endlessly about Tijuana brothels like they're some sex nirvana, but never actually goes there.

Shelter order March and April 2020, that was reasonable. But after that it all turned into insanity, trying to make a new kind of society, one which is without viruses. The Republic of Hygienic Virtue. And Gavin was to be our Supreme Being.

SJG

^^^ You're crazy like a bicycle made out of baby parts.

^^^^ And you CMI are an insufferable asshole.

SJG

@Tetra ... I'm old, but I'm not Spanish Flu old...

A better comparison would be the coordinated vaccine pushes when the vaccines for things like polio, measles, mumps, and chicken pox were first released. I *also* wasn't old enough to remember this, but via conversations with my parents and grandparents the impression I got was that there was massive government and social pressure to get vaccinated. To the degree that the unvaccinated were regarded as traitors to U.S. interests. The U.S. government at that time also dumped large sums of money into non-profits (like the March of Dimes) to help pressure people towards vaccination.

And, of course, there came the eventual vaccine mandates in schools in colleges for all of these diseases. And the U.S. military had mandatory vaccinations for anyone in the service. But, by the time vaccine mandates became a thing that affected me, there was little or no pressure at all. It was just a thing everybody did and nobody got their knickers in a knot.

So, I'm not sure I'm buying the whole "We've never seen this before!" with regard to pressure to get vaccinated for COVID. It's not like I've written a thesis paper on the topic, but I strongly suspect that Federal and State governments haven't been previously reluctant to put their finger on the scale with regard to applying pressure towards health mandates.

And there lies the legal rub. There is a long-standing and accepted precedent for vaccine mandates in private and public settings, and in settings where people live as tenants. The test is whether or not that precedent can be carried over to residential properties that are privately owned.

And that legal test will occur in the court system, which is why it's not even remotely totalitarian. That's how non-totalitarianism works. Someone decides to push the limits of a law, it goes to court, and then the judicial system makes a determination based on evidence and testimony. What this landlord is doing is not a symptom of things being broken; it's a symptom of sound jurisprudence.

And, if I had to bet one way or another, I suspect that the landlord will lose.

@CMI, not apples to apples. In addition to those being a significant public health threat and a major cause of birth defects (especially rubella), I don't know if anyone was denying a basic need (food, clothing, or shelter) based on not getting vaccinated. You had the option to homeschool, etc. Additionally, we didn't have the level of technological tracking ability we have right now. You don't get resistance to a law until you have the means to enforce it. This isn't a finger on the scale, it's a full asscheek on the scale.

And since it's not a public health threat on the level of polio, I'm not buying the public good argument. It's more on the level of coercing someone to get the annual flu shot. What socially undesirable behaviors are grounds to deny someone a place to live? What precedent does this set?

As for the courts making it non-totalitarian, the impulse is still there. Our Dear Leader implemented an unconstitutional moratorium on evictions, knowing it would be overturned by the courts. It still took effect.

I just don't want the country to turn into a place where you can be denied the necessary implements for human life based on not engaging in a certain socially-desirable behavior. And I'll take a little more COVID for that.

The problem I have with the vaccine mandates are...

They punish people for not complying. The worst part is threatening people with either getting vaccinated or losing their livelihoods.

They don't guarantee people will have access to any needed health care as a byproduct of the vaccine

The mandates are politically not socially motivated.

As far as that landlord. If he had a conservative judge he'd win. He has a legal argument as nothing bars discrimination based on vaccination status. But he'd lose on an appeal.

We must fight to take back what we have already lost to the COVID hysteria!

SJG

https://www.yandy.com/Plus-Size-Lace-Ros…

^ How do we take back the lives and time lost, from those folks that continue to deny science, don't get the vaxx expect to be refused admission to the library

The loss is simply because we do not have Universal Health Care. In the countries which have this Women and Men enjoy 5 years greater life expectancy, less premature death, better handling of the big chronic conditions like diabetes, obesity, and high blood pressure. And they also have much lower infant mortality. And the cost is much lower than what we pay for health care now.

The COVID hysteria was promoted by the National Leadership of the Democratic Party, in order to suppress discussion of more progressive things like Universal Health Care, Universal Basic Income, and the Green New Deal.

SJG

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HK Girls
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^ So using your logic the life expectancy in the US should have increased it actually decreased by almost a year since this pandemic started, GTFOH with the stupid arguments.

It decreased our life expectancy by a little bit. But if we had Universal Health Care, as it is in the other industrialized countries, it would have been 5 years higher, and also lower cost.

The reason we do not have universal health care is our history of slavery, racism, eugenics, and social darwinism. And it is the continuing legacy of Strom Thurmond's 1948 States Rights Campaign, Richard Nixon's 1968 Southern Strategy, and Ronald Reagan's 1980 campaigning about States Rights in the Mississippi Back Delta where the 3 voter registration workers had been murdered by the KKK.

SJG

Plus Size, requiring millimeter by millimeter appreciation
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^ you don't have a clue do you ?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-life…

I have to stop reading this thread because right now all I can think go go covid, rah, rah, rah, rah. Covid has convinced me that god exists; he is accepting the fact that humans were a tragic error; he is starting over by culling the herd.....

^^^^ locked ward of the nursing home, top floor, heavy wire cages on windows.


25,
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-life…

Yes, it has lowered our life expectancies a little bit. And this is mostly because we have done a bad job of controlling the big chronic conditions.

But if we had universal health care, we would have a much larger life expectancy and less of these chronic conditions.

The National Leadership of the Democratic Party decided that it would be a disaster to talk about this though in the 2020 election cycle. So they promoted a hysterical (Gavin Newsom and Andrew Cuomo) way of talking about COVID.

SJG

^ Repeating your same three unsupported points...man, you're boring.

Totally supported points:

1. Covid cut our life expectancy a little bit. But Universal Health Care would make a large improvement, making up for what COVID cost us.

2. Democratic Party leadership decide on a hysterical approach to COVID, cause talking about more progressive issues would have meant a Republican victory nation wide in 2020.

SJG

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I like to think Americans are smart enough to see through "more progressive issues." Single-payer is popular until they see the bill, at which point it falls off the cliff. It failed on the ballot in liberal Colorado, more liberal California, and even more liberal Vermont.

Besides, it's a laugh to see you pimping single-payer (thought Obamacare was supposed to end the "universal health care" debate, lol). That just means the orderlies pin you down before sticking you with your Haldol.

You prove my point Tetradon. Universal Health Care, Green New Deal, and Universal Basic Income are supported by some, but there is also virulent opposition to these.

So the National Leadership of the Democratic Party decided to take a hysterical approach to COVID (Gavin Newsom, Andrew Cuomo, Anthony Fauci) to suppress discussion of these more progressive issues.

It was just a political calculation. But using COVID hysteria and COVID types of authority, were wrong.

SJG

Real Big
https://www.etsy.com/listing/901513665/u…

"there is also virulent opposition to these."

That virulent opposition is called "common sense." Trust me.

Well I am not here going to argue for or against these progressive issues. My point here is just that the National Leadership of the Democratic Party decided to suppress the debate by promoting COVID hysteria, and irrational and superstitious fear.

SJG

^ You just argue for the sake of arguing, in order for life expectancy to drop by a year and a half that means a lot of dead bodies in a short period of time, 675,000 dead American bodies are neither hysteria nor irrational or superstitious fear.

Our death rate has to be at least 1% per year, or that would mean that average life expectancy is going over 100 years. We know this is not true.

So min 3.5 Meg per year, or min 10,000 per day.

Covid only increased this by a small amount. Universal Health Care would make a much bigger difference.

SJG

If Ricky and SJG both say that COVID is overblown hysteria, then that is what it is.

The truth shall not be suppressed!

Well it remains an attempt by the Democratic Party Neo-Liberals to make a fearful and docile population, so that they will not try to advance a more progressive slate of issues. This had been done because the National Leadership of the Democratic Party decided that in a nationwide general election, talking about such more progressive issues would cost them electorally.

SJG

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^ Right, SJG, and the Trilateral Commission and 5G microchips implanted in your anus.

25 said (to SJG): "You just argue for the sake of arguing"


It's almost like you haven't been here for the past several years...

It is the Neo-Liberal Wing of the Democratic Party, the national leadership, deciding what issues would be talked about in what ways, during the 2020 Campaign, and then in this debate about the first Biden budget, in the time available before the 2022 Midterm.

Remember, Obama was able to pass his health care. But Bill Clinton had come in with I think a 52 seat Senate majority and he still was not able to get his passed.

SJG

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I'd like to welcome you all to the 387th thread that SJG is going to hijack to talk to himself for the next several years.

We would have had less trouble with COVID if we had had Universal Health Care, cause that keeps the big chronic conditions under better control. The COVID precautions, beyond March and April 2020, have accomplished very little except to propagate fear.

I am glad that we have the vaccine, but it seems to be only partially effective, and it is being used to propagate fear too.

The Democratic Party Leadership took this approach to COVID to silence discussion of more progressive issues.

SJG

https://www.spicylingerie.com/ey-yh3159x…

Covid is real. I'm not getting into that inane argument.

But yeah we would be fairing through this pandemic better if we had universal Healthcare. If we had an actual health care system rather than a health care industry.

If people had access to viable care for diabetes obesity etc of course less would die of covid.

But the thing is we don't and won't for the foreseeable future. We're stuck with what we have.

What we need is to stop pandering to the private sector and put people first.

Yeah we need healthcare for diet and obesity, because simply not eating and drinking until you become a fat slob with diabetes isn't possible because it takes an effort. Put people first = hand out money to pathetic losers who will not make an effort. Fuck it. As ye sow, so shall ye reap. Don't work? Don't eat. Simple.

ICEE, what specific proposals do you have to "stop pandering to the private sector and put people first."?

Somehow universal health care isn't popular when they see the tab.

Here’s your best reason why you should get vaccinated

https://apple.news/A4uxY401hQm6IDqAdTYgS…

^My deductible is zero and my charge for the er is only $150.00, unless I get admitted then its zero. Ambulance rides are zero and meds are $4.00 for 3 months. Cool now I don'[t have to get vaccinated.

^ Good for you most people don't have such strong insurance, don't get vaccinated I don't care. Don't know of any insurance available to me, that offers what you're describing and lets see how long your insurance company offers that to any one who is unvaccinated. My best guess is that will be changing sooner than you think.

I am vaccinated because I chose to be. No government is going to tell me what to put in my body, especially one that supports the murder of the unborn because "its a woman's body". I live and live well, so I have far better things to worry about than dying. People who are afraid to die are also afraid to live and simply exist.

^ that really has no bearing on my post you are just arguing for the sake of being ornery, just like SJG, stupid response typical of a lawyer though.

Covid closing in or possibly surpassed 700 k Americans killed by HIV. Only stupid shits don’t get vaxed.

I am vaxed got third recently. It’s called looking out for number one.

Our mortality rate has to be at least 1% per year. Otherwise that would mean that the average life expectancy is exceeding 100 years, and we know this is not true.

So our minimum annual death rate has to be at least 3.5 million. And our minimum daily death rate 10,000.

The vast majority of our deaths are caused by preventable chronic conditions. COVID is not a chronic condition.

We do have higher rates of the big chronic conditions than the countries which have universal health care. If we want a lower mortality rate, greater life expectancy, lower infant mortality, and lower costs, then we need to go to universal health care.

As it is now, the precautions, the masking, the testing, and the vaccination push amount to just inducing irrational and superstitious fear. And it is from this that the greatest dangers associated with COVID come.

SJG

https://www.spicylingerie.com/ey-yh3159x…

I don't want to take any sides, however what about the young infants who can't be vaccinated. What if someone lives there and is infected and affects a child. I'm not political so I don't have a fan from this either way. I am definitely with you in regards to forcing for restricting my right to choose whether or not I want a vaccine

Vaccine mandates are good when there is a viable vaccine. What were seeing is a vaccine pushed through for political reasons. Pressure from businesses and corporations to create a false sense of safety and keep things open.

But the vaccine is better than nothing

We have three viable vaccines that have passed rigorous clinical trials.

Without "businesses and corporations," you would starve.

The idea that masking and distancing protects people from the virus, is fallacy. Same goes for the vaccine, because it does not work very well. What protects us is our own immune systems. And the risk to children is pretty near zero.

SJG

If only there were a way to stimulate your immune system against a virus without actually giving it...

That is the vaccine. But, the need for this vaccine is way overblown. It is being used to propagate superstitious irrational fear and prejudice.

SJG

False.

True.

Now this particular vaccine does not seem to work very well. And as it is a very unusual type of vaccine, no one knows what the long term effects are, or what a 3rd shot would do.

But the fear is irrational because the virus is only making a small addition to our death rate. Far more people have been immunized by natural exposure, and immunized better, then it has ever been possible to inject with the vaccine.

The authorities mislead us, downplaying the propagation of herd immunity.

SJG

https://www.etsy.com/listing/737139462/v…

No, false. "Herd immunity" hasn't stopped the delta variant. And we have lambda and mu on the horizon.

I'd tell you not to get stupid and propagate your virus around strip clubs, but you don't seem to go to many.

There may or may not be much transfer of vaccine or exposure immunity for these new variants. But either way, people are going to get exposed to it. Precautions will not protect people, and the vaccine does not do much either.

SJG

https://www.etsy.com/listing/737139462/v…

https://www.etsy.com/listing/734928390/v…

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^ amazing how 99.4 % of hospitalizations are unvaccinated how do you respond to that fact ?

Alex Berenson gets data unredacted from Israel, something he has never been able to get in the US. It is not true. A lot of the people now in hospitals have been vaccinated, 2 shots. We are being lied to!

https://alexberenson.substack.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTSnfZvf…

SJG

^ Look you can be as delusional as you like you are only responsible for yourself, we are not being lied to by the folks that are telling us to protect ourselves the people that are denying that the vaxx is effective are doing the only lying, and their agenda is very clear. They are using this to fundraise and distract you from the very fact that they have mishandled this disease from the very beginning. The number of deaths has now exceeded the the number of people that have died in every war in U.S history combined and that is a disgrace. Face facts, not this fiction you have constructed.

And the vaccines stop the infected from becoming the dying.

Hey 25, you notice how conversations get a lot smarter around here after the San Jose Public Library closes?

@Tetradon
Yeah, the problem is this pandemic should have been over, but these pathetic fools that claim to know more than our very well learned scientists are killing us. The biggest fools are those that tell us that they are going to do their own research, Google is a great tool for doing research, but the the research is only good if you have the knowledge of which research is reliable and these fools just keep listening to these charismatic liars with an agenda that is just despicable, attempting to profit from the ignorance of trusting people, that aren't smart enough to realize that they don't care at all about them, and are only in this for their own personal gain

The vaccine does not work very well, especially in the face of the Delta Variant. Natural immunity works a lot better than vaccine immunity.

The authorities are lying to us about hospital data. And they have always covered up the fact that there are vastly more cases than those officially tested.

Even Fauci said, back in June 2020, before there was so much of a hysteria policy set in stone, that 70% of Americans had already been exposed to the Covid virus. 70%, meaning that we were at the threshold of herd immunity back then. And then he said that of that 70%, in 60% of these exposures, nothing was felt, NOTHING AT ALL!

This gets right to the level of harm which Covid is causing, and to how herd immunity spreads while people feel NOTHING!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08QND…

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08ZVV…

Elon Musk supports Alex Berenson, but Amazon had suppressed his books. Musk has become a hero because he told the public health authorities where to stick it, and then he just reopened his factory. I was looking to the spirited debate because of his lawsuit, Musk's experts versus the public health officials. But they do not want this kind of debate. They settled the lawsuit just by giving Musk everything he wants.

SJG

https://www.etsy.com/listing/840387974/l…

Incorrect. The vaccine retains efficacy against Delta, particularly in reducing serious complications. Relying on "natural immunity" is going to keep idiot antivaxxers spawning new variants.

Yes 25 most internet "research" consists of Googling and citing the first site that confirms your beliefs.

And conspiracy theories psychologically come from people wanting to feel more important than they are. Delusions of unnatural importance are textbook schizophrenia.

What would happen from putting SJG and Desertscrub, our two greatest schizophrenics, in a room together? Would it generate a nuclear reaction of insanity?

^ LOL that would be epic I doubt anything constructive would come from that meeting of the two no never minds

Alex Berenson has been tracking the data from Israel, unredacted data. The vaccine is correlating with a higher death rate.

SJG

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1025240232/…

People think the vaccine is being pushed more out of a desire to keep people in a state of fear.

The need for it is overblown, as is the confidence which is being placed in it.

A lot of it is just because the national leadership of the Democratic Party did not want there to be any talk about Universal Health Care. If we talk seriously about COVID, it will come to the understanding that we need Universal Health Care. But national party leadership decided that that would cost them the election.

SJG

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1025240232/…

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1070438309/…

!!!!
https://www.etsy.com/listing/910984401/a…

^ Do you keep repeating that same unsubstantiated opinion on every thread?

You're so boring.

Imagine the 2020 Primary, Bernie Sanders talking about Universal Health Care and Free College, and then Joe Biden talking about ?? NOTHING.

Biden and the party leadership had already decided that they could not be talking about a progressive slate of issues, or it would cost them the election.

But if you talked about COVID in any kind of rational way, it would turn into a discussion about Universal Health Care.

SJG

BBW action uniform
https://www.etsy.com/listing/832987557/o…

Actually no, because the progressive left like Alexandria Occasionally-Coherent won't shut the fuck about it. The universal systems in Europe (which are as different from each other as apples and orangutans) are highly variable in their COVID results.

It's a dream, not a policy, because no UHC policy survives contact with American reality.

Biden listed Adlai Stevenson, George McGovern, and Michael Dukakis, as all being "very liberal", and all having lost. Jim Clyburn of South Carolina kept talking about 1972, a reference to McGovern. And then they kept saying "shut it down", meaning the primary and Bernie. And Bernie has been coopted into being the spokes person for the Biden Budget.

AOC says what she wants, but she usually does not oppose Biden and the Senate Democrats.

Rational talk about COVID would end up being talk about Universal Health Care. The party leadership has wanted to avoid that.

SJG

Belly Dance Eye Makeup
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=8801

Action Uniform with modest size model
https://www.etsy.com/listing/759927406/v…

If UHC were a COVID solution, France, Italy, and the UK would have solved it by now. Ergo, it isn't.

UHC does not make COVID go away, but it gives a boost to life expectancy much larger than what COVID had taken away.

SJG

Life expectancy is a bad measure of health outcome. Too many socioeconomic factors play in. Highly unlikely it would have a benefit in America.

The Sanders and Warren plans were shit, amounting to an across-the-board pay cut to already-overworked providers.

Besides, like I said, it did not give them better COVID outcomes.

I'm guilty of tilting at this part windmill more than once, but the reality is that you're arguing with a guy whose baseline is being enraged that he couldn't figure out an internet connection when the libraries closed.

Oh, I know. But I figure someone else might click on this thread and learn something.

Strange, he's done posting right when public libraries in that time zone close.

In more developed countries people aren't losing their jobs and homes because of medical bills due to covid. Nor do they fear any long term effects won't be cared for.

They're losing their lives, instead.

Show me a single UHC proposal that can work here. Colorado, California, and Vermont all found it fiscally unsustainable.

It has to come from the federal government.

And the pandemic taught us that benefits for people are possible when politicians at least portray the illusion of putting the American public over private sector profits

If something doesn't work on a small scale, why should we go all in? They call states laboratories of democracy for a reason.

Private sector profits put food on your table.

No private sector profits go in the pockets of the rich who sell me shitty food at a premium markup. Like social security medicaid Medicare etc. It would be a national plan. Medicare for all is the simplest route. And let people choose to opt out and pay for private insurance if they want.

You're a right winger who opposes universal health care that's your prerogative.

What you call "private sector profits" could be anything from a family farm to an industrial conglomerate.

I'm a pragmatist who knows Medicare payment rates will drive physicians and hospitals out of business. They rely on higher private payment rates to stay afloat.

I would support a viable UHC proposal, I also don't see one.

^ Ask Icee if he receives his income from any government, remind him if not he too is part of the private sector, and receives his share of the profits from the private sector.

Icee, like all on the left, pretend to be interested in many things, but in reality they only care about one thing: Taking your money.

Some of y’all still haven’t got your shot? It’s free just go to Walgreens SMH.

^^^^ The vaccine, just like it was with the testing and still is with the masking, is being used to support hysteria.

SJG

THIS TOTALLY SUCKS, TRYING TO ENFORCE VACCINATION

IDIOCY!

TOTALLY UNWARRANTED!

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/coron…

has PDF link for actual 10 page text
https://www.latimes.com/california/story…

SJG

https://www.spicylingerie.com/bc-vip1002…